Or leave...don't know what to do

[jaded7]

This is is long, I know, and just the start of the relationship, much more has happened since.

Hello Everyone,

I've done a lot of reading and watching videos on this site, and I think I've found the right place. Will you please help me to understand if some of the things going on with my GF of 1 year are 'normal' or outragreous? I will report them as factually as I can as I don't want to prejudice this. Thank you so much in advance, I'm really struggling with missing her, wanting to be with her, and thinking this is all crazy...all at the same time.

Episode 1, 3rd Date: we had gone on two dates, the second one I got rather drunk and invited her up to my place where I kissed her and pawed at her a bit, she definitely shut it down and I'm glad for that. She mentioned something about 'we can do this tomorrow' but I was a bit drunk. We met up the next night and I was embarrassed by my behavior and definitely didn't want to have sex (I was just too drunk the night before to act properly) and I met her down at my door when she called. She seemed immediately pissed off, we had a terrible night where she literally argued with me, cut me off, was standoffish and not nice. I ended the night thinking wow, this is so different from the person I had been with on the first 2 dates. Turned out later she told me she had wanted to have sex, and was 'mad' 'annoyed' at me...and that's how she acted, with someone she hardly knew.

Episode 2, 2 months later: having dinner at her house, really nice dinner, enjoying wine and talking. After we are done eating I stand and gather the plates and dishes in order to bring them up to the sink and rinse them as a gesture of gratitude and to be a good guest. She immediately begins saying, in a very sharp and angry tone, "what are you doing?" "don't set the dishes like that!", "don't stack them, don't you know that makes the bottoms dirty too?" "Stop! oh my god..." "just put them back on the table!" Stunned...I struggled to understand what she wanted, so I just put them back on the table like she said. We continued talking and I told her we should move into the living on the couch and have some music going...at which point she stands up suddenly, in great anger, and goes to the sink to angrily start doing the dishes, carrying them from the table to the sink. Stunned again, I asked her what just happened. She wouldn't answer. I stood there feeling absolutely shocked and confused and said...ok...can I help? She says something like "why would I want your help?" I told her I had tried to help with the dishes before...she says "So, you just want me to wake up in the morning to dirty dishes in the kitchen?" I of course say, no...that's not what I want. And then "And WHO PUTS DIRTY DISHES BACK ON THE TABLE?" I say that she told me too, that's why I did, she denies telling me to do that when I KNOW she did. It was very weird and disturbing.

Episode 3: we go to a nice community event, have a great time, we walk back to our cars and I get ready to kiss her good night. We hadn't made any plans for the rest of the night, it was late, and I expected to see her in the morning like I always do. She hadn't invited me over, hadn't said anything about wanting to come over to my place, so I was getting ready to kiss her goodnight when she exploded with anger at me for not wanting her to come over. I told her over and over I didn't know she wanted to come over (we normally will spend one to two nights a month over...she has a kid, etc). I told her if I had know I would have had her come over...but that was that, she was pissed and arguing in circles with me for 40 minutes, getting so mad that I was worried about her driving.

Episode 4: many weeks earlier we had looked at some calendars for her son's busy schedule and there was a weekend where he was going to be busy all day on Saturday and Sunday. We had casually discussed doing something those days, but nothing concrete and never mentioned it again Friday night I finished a 14 hours workday, called her at 9:30 and we chatted like we always do, very pleasant, and we made plans to meet at the market on Saturday morning like we always did...no mention in an over an hour conversation about the rest of Saturday.. After working again that morning for several hours, I took public transport there (strangely, she never wants to drive the extra 1 mile to actually pick me up when she goes) and we have a wonderful time. She drops me back off at work and asks me what I'm doing, I tell her I"m going to go lay down a little bit since I'm so tired. EXPLOSION...she is pissed, angry at me and cutting me off telling me she planned to spend the whole day with me and I cancelled on her. I try to tell her that I didn't know she wanted to spend the whole day together, she hadn't mentioned it, didn't mention it on the phone the night before, etc. etc to no avail. 2 days of silent treatment follow.


Episode 5: she has dental surgery, very nervous about it. I make a real effort to leave work, get to the dental office so I can drive her home way across town. Stop to get her painkillers and antibiotics, get her home and try to get her set up as best I can. I need to get back to work so I take a long, long bus ride home. Call her repeatedly, text her repeatedly that night and the next couple of days asking her what I can do, can I bring her something, can I take her somewhere, bring her food, go for a walk, give her a back rub...anything. She says no repeatedly, then stops responding. I keep trying, but she quits really responding and I'm confused. Turns out, I learn months later, that she was PISSED at me because "I didn't know what she needed and therefore can't take care of me. My friends didn't have to ask what I needed, they just did it" She now brings this up all the time as evidence that I'm incapable of taking care of her. I explained to her that I asked many, many times what she wanted and that makes her more mad. The last time this came up she told me she turned off the phone she was so mad at me!


There are more. Common threads are mind reading expectations, explosive and sudden anger, circular arguments where she denies what I'm say or gaslights completely (like the issue with telling me to put the dishes back on the table).

Does this sound scary to you guys?

Thanks for your help.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Ozzie101]

Hi jaded7! Welcome!

You've come to the right place. What you describe is very familiar and, yes, sounds very much like BPD. The push-pull. The rages that go on and on. And the mind-reading. That's something my H used to get worked up about. (Still does, from time to time, but it's much better now.) My inability to read his mind meant I didn't really love him or we weren't really compatible. He would ask some sort of vague question during a conversation that had jumped around A LOT, then get very annoyed when I asked for clarification. It's bewildering and frustrating, I know, and it's in some ways tied to a pwBPD's fear of abandonment.

A lot of this is tied to the feelings = facts phenomenon so common with BPD. BPD is an emotional regulation disorder. PwBPD tend to have very big, strong feelings and inadequate skills for coping. When they feel those feelings, they deal with them in different ways: raging, projection, and twisting the facts to fit whatever they feel.

Have you read much about BPD? I'd advise reading the articles on this site to get a better grip on things. Also, there's a great book called Stop Walking on Eggshells that's been a huge help to me and others here when it comes to understanding this disorder.

Also, you may learn, as I've learned, that communication techniques can play a huge role in things. I was JADEing (Justify Argue Defend Explain) a lot with my H -- something it sounds like you've done with your GF as well. That's like throwing gas on a fire with BPD. It's much better to use SET (Support Empathy Truth).

Another biggie: validation and listening with empathy.

I've thrown a lot at you. When you have time, I hope you'll take a look at those links and see what you think and if any of it sounds helpful or familiar to you.

We're here to help! Keep posting and asking questions!

[jaded7]

Thank you SO much for your response. I imagine that it might be hard sometimes to keep up with all the posts here and make the time to respond, but I can tell you that it is extremely helpful to see this this morning. I'm struggling very hard, and even in the anonymity of the internet this is a godsend.

There is so much to tell here, those stories I posted are ONLY from the first few months of our relationship, there are so many more. All are so confusing, many about somehow intentionally misreading my intent ( I am full of love and NEVER would hurt her, all I want to do is support her and make her happy), most involve a sudden outburst of anger. Then there is the constant criticism of pretty much everything I do, condescending lectures, evasive and (as it turns out) untrue 'communications' (i.e., lies), controlling behavior, rages when she's calling me names, mimicking my voice, speaking of me in third person ("Ohhh...Jaded's upset that I'm yelling at him!). Months and months now of push-pull: I love you, then not responding to texts or phone calls for days, "our lives are on different paths" then I love you two days later...it goes on and on.

Early in the relationship "sex, connection is REALLY important", then she withdrew physical connection when I had a great business opportunity with a really famous person who she decided was a "loser" (she never met him, never studied his work, never did any of his practices, didn't ever speak with him, knew nothing about him but a picture from the 1990s on the Internet) in my field but didn't tell me- she ignored my texts and calls to come over and connect- I mean, literally ignored as if they hadn't happened, she spent the weekend at my place and rejected me 4 times (acted like she didn't know what I was doing when I reached for her in bed "what..what do you want? OH"). When I asked her months later if there was something wrong with our physical relationship she exploded at me. I asked again a couple months when she slapped my arm away when I reached for her in bed, and she exploded again saying this was a wrong time to bring it up, and "you want to fight? You want to go it right now? Ok, let's go at it" During that attack she admitted that months before she decided she was "reevaluating the relationship" because I was "the kind of person" what excited about this potential business opportunity.

It just goes on and on. Confusing, bewildering, hurtful...

In December she told me she was going to invite me up to her family's house for Christmas. We had a show together her son was in and her Mom, Dad, sister and niece were coming to on the 21st- I bought the $115 tickets. She stopped communicating on the 17th, so I showed up to the show looking around for her, or anyone I knew. I saw her family in the lobby, went to them and they hugged and kissed me. They asked where she was and I had to say I don't know. She came across the lobby, looked at each of them and hugged each of them, didn't even look at me or hug me. She spoke to them, looking at them only. During the show she snapped at me and belittled me- in front of the family- multiple times, was cold and icy. Didn't respond to a text later after the show. I didn't hear from her for two more days and it turns out she left town for Christmas and didn't even say a word to me. On Christmas Eve I get a text that says (first text in 5 days) "tired. going to take some time to recalibrate". That's it. No mention of Christmas, no mention of how horribly she treated me in the show, not mention of where she was or if she left town. That's it.

Anyway...we haven't communicated in 3 weeks now and I'm just staying strong. She did call on the 31st but I didn't answer but sent her a text (out of courtesy) saying "I'm trying to stay calm and centered today. I'm not really feeling up to talking with you tonight". She didn't respond and I haven't heard a word from her since.

Suffering doesn't even come close to capturing the feelings I have right now.

[Ozzie101]

All are so confusing, many about somehow intentionally misreading my intent ( I am full of love and NEVER would hurt her, all I want to do is support her and make her happy)

Here's the thing about BPD: Feelings = facts. If, for any reason, she's feeling unloved or unheard or misunderstood, then it doesn't matter how loving you are. To her, you would hurt her. You don't support her. Everything goes out the window. I know how frustrating that can be. Believe me. I've been there. Can't tell you how many times my H has accused me of not supporting him or of only marrying him for his paycheck, despite all evidence to the contrary.

I would caution you, though, about thinking it's intentional on her part. Chances are, it isn't. She's not making a conscious decision to misinterpret you. It's more likely the fog and mixed-up thinking of BPD at work.

The links I provided go into some skills that can help with that.

I really would recommend the Eggshells book since it goes into a lot of detail explaining how the BPD mind works. It's complicated, but learning about it helps us make sense of what seems like senseless behavior.

I know how hurtful all this can be. It's painful to feel like we're giving our all, only to be rejected or accused of not caring.

[jaded7]

Your first paragraph was so helpful. Thank you so much. It brings to mind so many examples. I do believe it's related to being afraid of being unloved or left. The anger just absolutely shocks me and surprises me. What you say makes sense, but since we've not spoken in three weeks (see Christmas stuff above), probably too late.

-"You don't understand my life"- that's ALL we talk about, that's ALL we do, that's why she calls or texts (when she used to) to talk about her life, I help her work through issues, constantly helping her feel better about communications with her exh. Almost never makes any attempt to support my life, understand my life.

-Call repeatedly and text repeatedly to see what she needs when home sick says nothing at first then doesn't respond,  then I find out she's 'mad' at me, yells at me "my friends know what to do without asking!"

-Call to offer to grocery shop before a camping trip to save her time and money: "you're just trying to cover your ass!", "what do you want, cookies and milk for asking?"

-offer to take over driving on a long trip, glare and "Jade, that's patronizing".

-the dishes thing above

-text to say let's meet at a cool coffee shop to do some work, the only response I get is "my work requires me to talk on the phone with people. I can't do that in a coffee shop". (we've met at coffee shops many, many times; her work also requires emails, composing plans, responding to clients by email; plus, she and I have many, many times gone for walks and coffee in the afternoons)

And on and on and on and on

[Ozzie101]

It's been three weeks. It might be over. Or, she might come back (pretty common story around here). Whatever the case, learning more about BPD, examining your own communication styles, building your own emotional strength, can only help you moving forward.

Have you seen this article?
https://bpdfamily.com/content/how-borderline-relationship-evolves

It's like I said -- feelings = facts. She feels misunderstood. She's desperate for you to "get" her. I've been through that with my H. You can't argue. You can't explain. You can try using SET. You can build things up in the good times by being affectionate and open.

As you said, though, you're currently in a No Contact situation.

Listening with empathy is a really key skill and one that has helped me a lot. I try to see what's underneath what my H is upset about. Usually what they're ranting about or saying isn't what the problem REALLY is. Sometimes it helps to get at the real root of the problem. Have you thought about that with your GF? About what might be behind her behavior?

[jaded7]

I have not really thought about what might be behind her behavior, but you have opened my eyes a bit. It's so hard to understand when someone is raging at you and calling you names, bringing in your most painful secrets you've shared to hurt you. I've almost always done a good job of reflective listening, and I've certainly never yelled at her, called her names, put her down. I'm proud of that.

She tells me that her exh was a NPD abuser, emotional and somewhat physical. Essentially, that is/was the main topic of communication- she'd forward his texts to me, his emails to me and we'd discuss for hours and hours and hours, where I would support her and tell her what a great mom she was. She is afraid of him, although he lives in a different town, he's occasionally in our town. I noticed early on when he was in town she would have these 'flare ups' of confusing anger and behavior. She says he installed spy software on her computer when they were splitting which caused her to have ongoing PTSD, and she says that he might kill her or kill himself and their son. I must assure you, I've been INCREDIBLY supportive of her...at all times, around this. She had even said this to other people. She still has to interact with by text and email, almost on a daily basis.

She also tells me that an ex-boyfriend of hers 20 years ago killed himself and blamed her in the note he left, which caused her deep trauma. After which she took off in her car and wandered around the country by herself for months, family not knowing where she was, sleeping in the car on deserted roads, staying in motels sometimes, etc.

Maybe these are at the root of it all, I don't know. All I know is I'm the kindest person, would never hurt her in any way, and simply cannot understand any of this. At. All.

[Ozzie101]

It is difficult to understand, I know. I've been there and so have most of the members here. But the more you learn about BPD, the more it makes "sense" (in a twisted sort of way).

And, the more you know, the better you're able to face it. It is possible to have a good, rewarding relationship involving BPD. It just requires different skills. It can be like learning a new language.

[jaded7]

Ozzie,

I just read the article you linked on the dynamics of a bpd relationship. Very much spot on. Extremely into 'us' in the beginning, extremely communicative, had all sorts of time to spend with me, said "I love you" very early (I didn't...then she said "I didn't say that to make you say that, I just wanted you to know"), when I expressed a deep fear that she would leave me due to unsatisfactory sex ( I was sexually abused as a boy and I told her this was a very sensitive area for me) she told me that "I told my friends it's the best sex I've had in 15 years"). She spent hours doing my family genealogy and sending me information, she marveled at so many similarities in our lives, etc etc.

Then. She started to become critical and controlling about EVERYTHING about me, the rage episodes started seemingly out of nowhere, she even became very critical DURING sex and would snap at me and literally lecture me in a mean tone (I swear, I was doing the same things in the same way as before when it was the best sex in 15 years). During one raging episode of 3 hours- because my sheets were touching the floor..."I told you I don't like it when your sheets touch the floor! The floor is dirty! And your place is a pigsty" (when my place was SUPER clean, cleaner than the 50 times she'd been there before, cleaner than when she told me in the initial phase that "my place is cleaner than hers") I said to her, why are you so critical? I don't understand, remember when you said what a great guy I was, how proud you were to be with me? She replied "that's before I knew all this stuff about you!" I said..."What stuff?"

THEN. Withdraws sex, ignores my invitations to come over and connect, we go without sex for 4-5 months (this, from the person who told me "it's super important we keep that part of our connection"), begins to make no time for us (this from the person who yelled at me that "you need to make us a priority"), communications decrease sometimes for days at a time. She's angry all the time.

[Ozzie101]

I've been there. From feeling like I was loved and cared for and valued to feeling like I must be the worst person in the world (before I discovered BPD and started to figure out what was really going on). Being painted black is a terrible thing.

Have you thought about what happens if she starts trying to communicate again? What you want to happen?

[jaded7]

Ozzie,

I go through cycles of emotions and feelings during these last 3 weeks with no contact.

I'm a good person, she treated me horribly and I owe her nothing------> oh my god I'm ruining this by not contacting her-------> she's hurting and I want to take care of her and make her feel better-------->she's dumped me in this passive aggressive, ghosting way-------->I can't live without her---------->I would never do this (humiliating her in front of her family, leaving for Christmas without even saying a word to her for several days)------->she'll soon reach out and apologize for all of this over the last several months

I think that if she does reach out, it will be cold and icy and "obviously we're done here, you have never contacted me in 3 weeks and you are cruel and punishing" I dread that.

If she says, we need to talk and takes some responsibility for her behavior, I will say "there are some very serious issues we need to talk about before I consider that."

[Ozzie101]

It's normal to have those big emotional swings in a situation like this -- in any break-up, really. That's why it's so important to practice self-care and to work on yourself. Big decisions are best made when you're centered.

If she says, we need to talk and takes some responsibility for her behavior, I will say "there are some very serious issues we need to talk about before I consider that."

That sounds like a good plan, to me.

I think that if she does reach out, it will be cold and icy and "obviously we're done here, you have never contacted me in 3 weeks and you are cruel and punishing" I dread that.

What about it do you dread? How do you think you would respond to that?

[jaded7]

I think that if she does reach out, it will be cold and icy and "obviously we're done here, you have never contacted me in 3 weeks and you are cruel and punishing" I dread that.

What about it do you dread? How do you think you would respond to that?

I dread it because it will be punishing and mad and make this look like I did something wrong, which she is very good at. It will then make me feel horrible and that I screwed this whole thing up.

But I MUST remember, she stopped communicating on the 17th of December, which she had done several times in the previous four months, telling me she was busy, ignoring phone calls and texts for days and weeks, sending dismissive non-communicative texts every maybe 4 days- "busy" "messages not working". When I responded to one such text "have an hour in your neighborhood"- (that's it, not "I have some time near you, would you like to meet up for coffee?" or "Hey, how are you? Want to meet me for a quick coffee, would be nice to see you") I agreed to meet up and told her that ignoring texts and calls for days on end is invalidating and hurtful and confusing when the person says every now and then she loves you, she said "I can acknowledge that. I've been talking and spending times with my friends, they understand my life"...which is to say, she acknowledge that "busy" and "messages not working" were lies, she was ghosting me on purpose.

So now she did it again starting on Dec. 17th, after we had that conversation in November, and THEN after inviting me up to the her parents house for Christmas, completely humiliated me in front on her family on the 21st with put downs and angry sarcasm, cold icy behavior, THEN simply packed up and left on the 23rd without communicating anything ...just left.

That's really terrible treatment, and I didn't screw anything up.

[jaded7]

Well, it completely blew up today. The worst verbal abuse I've ever suffered in my life. I"m completely shattered right now, can't sleep. I know this is long, I'm sorry but I just had to vent. Somebody please say something. I feel like a horrible person right now.

She sent me an email after three weeks of not responding to my text when she called on the 31st of December -after not responding to communications for 7 days (calls, texts, lunch invitations) and, berating me with sarcasm and angry tone multiple times in a show with her family on the 21st- more days of non-communication and then leaving town for Christmas at her families with no call, text, email...nothing...after she said she was going to invite me up for Christmas. On Christmas Eve she sent a text saying "tired. going to take some time to recalibrate"...no communication for 5 or 6 more days. My text to her on the 31st was "------ I'm trying to stay centered and calm. I'm not really feeling up to talking to you tonight" Of course, I was feeling disrespected and ditched on Christmas and very hurt. She never responded.

Turns out she had eye surgery ten days ago. We had talked about her scheduling this in October, but she never said another word about it. I had no idea she had it scheduled, never said anything in all that time since October.

I got an email ripping me to shreds today for being a horrible person for not being there for her- she's in great pain, there's some ciliary nerve damage, her vision is still cloudy. All her friends were there for her. People that really love her were there for her. People who show up in her life were there for her. But not me. I can't be trusted, I"m terrible and "she's grieving for what she thought we had."

So I called her. My heart was torn to shreds both by the email and the thought that the woman I love had had this surgery and I wasn't there for her. I cried I was so pained that she was suffering. I wanted to be there for her, I would have dropped everything to be there for her...I simply didn't know, she hadn't said anything since October, and I simply forgot that might be going on. And she had essentially dropped all communication and ditched me over Christmas.

I told her that I love her and that I'm so sorry to have not been there for her, I told her I simply forgot since we hadn't discussed it since October. All the drama of the last few weeks, the sorrow of being left alone at Christmas, the hurt of being ignored for days and weeks had put me in a very bad mental state and I've just been hanging on. The no response to my text on the 31st...all of that had hurt me badly, and she simply stopped communicating before and after that. Yes, I could have written it down in October, but I communicate with friends and family...we talk daily, we know what's happening in each other's lives...that's how I keep up on things that we plan and do together. When we discussed it in October I just assumed we'd keep on talking daily, communicating, she'd share when she had it scheduled etc. That doesn't seem strange to me. I checked in with her repeatedly after her eye exam in October, offered to drive her, called and texted frequently to see how her eye was feeling then.

Well...she absolutely tore my head off, would not accept the apology, would not accept that she didn't respond to my text from the 31st- said I should have called her (this from the woman that took two weeks to respond to my last phone call), would not accept that she could have let me know by email, text, phone...anything. She has done this kind of thing before, I wrote about in my first post I think. When she was home from dental surgery last year (again I didn't write that date down, we communicated then and I made arrangements to pick her up on the day, take her home, etc...) I then called and texted her everyday to see what I could do for her, bring her, etc. She got increasingly mad over the days and stopped communicating, telling me later I was PLEASE READty for "not knowing what she needs. Her friends know what she needs and don't have to ask".

I reiterated that I was so deeply sorry and I love her and how painful it is to think of the woman I love hurting so bad. I asked her if there was anything I could do right now...pick up something at the store, get some medicines for her, send her some food. She said no...I have food.

I said to her "honey...I communicate with people, I know what's going on their lives, I plan out things based on that communication", "you literally stopped communicating with me for weeks before and during Christmas, left without me, then didn't communicate with me for the last 3 weeks even after I sent a text saying I wasn't up for talking with you that night of the 31st, you just never responded."

She just ramped it up and things got very bizarre. Rapid fire accusations about me, my business, how PLEASE READty my Christmas present was last year (it was a nice book on hikes in our city that I thought we could do together- I went to a nice boutique and looked through things for an hour to pick it out, she said I just picked it up in the checkout line at a grocery store), how she couldn't deal with covering up for me in front of her family in their house AGAIN (I have no idea what this is about...it seemed to have something to do with the book) and THAT'S why she didn't ever follow up on inviting me up. In other words, she wasn't "tired", she ditched me on purpose without telling me.

She told me she saw me "bullPLEASE READting her Dad" at the show. I said what? "Oh yeah, I heard you tell him you couldn't go to dinner because you have an event at your business". I did have an event at my business, a special event for the Solstice she knew that, she even helped me pick the day weeks before...first and only one, we've never been open on Solstice night, I spent weeks planning it and ordering special drinks and food. I told her it WAS an event, do you have a problem with the word event? She said "oh yeah, some stupid class at your studio, some event."

She then called me a "fraud wellness expert", a "liar" and a "plagiarist". I said liar? "Oh, you promised me you'd go to the doctor, how many times have you been to the doctor this year?" I don't recall promising that. I said plagiarist? She said "I've seen those post on Instagram, you're plagiarizing and don't use quotes". I said, I have cut and pasted twice music reviews from Rolling Stone and Pitchfork and put the dates and publication in bold at the end? I LIKE to let people know where I got the quote, I think it adds credibility. What?

She then said "we talked about the eye surgery all through December and November" We did not. I told her exactly when we talked about in October, where I was sitting, what the weather was (the sun was coming through the windows).

She told me I looked like I was going to collapse in agony when she told me in nice voice that I'd already asked about her son during the show. She mimicked the nice voice she said she used. She did not...she snapped angrily "YOU"VE ALREADY ASKED ME THAT 4 TIMES. HE"S FINE", in front of her family. I said I did not act like I was going to collapse, I looked at her is disbelief, and I had not asked about her son 4 times.

I explained to her that she was angry and mean during the show, snapped at me at least 4 times and ignored me the rest of the time in front of her family, it was humiliating. She denied being angry at me. Then after some crazy bouncing around, she told me she was angry at me for kissing her when I saw her because I said I had "the cold and crud", and then kissed her on the lips. I did not say I had the cold and crud, I didn't have the cold and crud, and in any case I couldn't have said anything to her since we hadn't talked in days and she ignored me in front of her family when she saw us. We literally exchanged no words.

I told her she had ignored me for days, including after the show when I texted her and the next two days before she left town for Christmas. Her response was "you knew where I was, I was at the show". I told her I wasn't trying to find out where she was, I knew where she was during Saturday evening and Sunday afternoon, that's not the point I'm trying to make. She said she was too busy to text me, I said it takes literally two seconds to respond to a text, and I saw her posting Instagram stories during these shows (she was just helping out backstage). She said, "what, you want me to call you at 11 at night?" I say, no that's not what I'm saying...you were taking the pictures and creating the stories during the show, with the phone in your hand, with my unanswered texts sitting there...but you said you were too busy to respond to my text.

She said I have "no friends" (I have many friends). She said "I contribute to the community, you do NOTHING" I said what? I volunteer for the show your son's in, I go to their fundraisers, I do fundraisers at my business for various charities.

I tried to say "honey, we need to not bounce around like this from accusation to accusation when I'm just trying to talk with you calmly, I need to not constantly interrupt me". "I'm so so sorry I wasn't there for your eye surgery, I mean it" She ramped up more.

She said were done discussing this, I never show up for her and her friends do She needs someone to show up for her and who can not freak out in stressful situations. I have spent literally hundreds of hours listening to her complain about her ex-husband, talk about her sons school stuff and crushes and classes. I've gone to the school fundraisers, his 8th grade graduation, I built his basketball hoop for him 6 weeks ago (with a 45 minute notice to come over and do it...the first time she invited me over in 6 months), I've responded to every text and email and call, even when she calls me during a super busy time in my business.

I tried to point out to her gently that when she yells at me for being a horrible person for 'doing' certain things (which I generally never do) in fact she has done the very same thing to me and I find it very confusing. She says "like what". I point out that she has scolded me for 'forgetting' (nonexistent) plans with her, for not keeping a calendar. So this spring we made a calendar together for evenings and weekends together, we did this together at a coffee shop after she harangued me for being child for not having a calendar. She immediately began cancelling at the last minute evenings we calendared together, 'forgot' about a weekend we planned at my place ( she initially denied such thing ever happened, I told her exactly when, then she changed to "I thought we were just going to spend the day together"...NOPE, we specifically said she was going to spend the weekend with me and her dog, I wrote it that way WITH her in calendar), then she said "ohhhh...that weekend, yeah the one you started an argument with me at midnight". This was when she told me she was going home and I pointed out that it was hurtful that she had yelled at me before for not keeping plans, and now a plan we put on the calendar together she is cancelling again.That's me starting an argument. And it was 10:45, not midnight.

I said, or remember your birthday and I brought you a nice dark chocolate bar and a beautiful papyrus card with a heartfelt note on our camping trip and you told me it "was a PLEASE READty card, stupid candy bar I don't even like" and "I ruined your birthday" "bought the card in a checkout line at Safeway" and "put zero effort or planning into her birthday". She agreed it was a "PLEASE READty card and a chocolate bar she doesn't even like". I then pointed out that 5 weeks earlier, after spending a year planning a trip to the UK OVER my birthday, she completely forgot it, did nothing before she left for my birthday, nothing during the trip, and called me on my birthday and didn't remember. I told her I wasn't mad at that, but it was confusing...because I actually remembered her birthday and did obvious planning and forethought whereas she provably did none for me. She insisted I prove that I put forethought into it. I told her wasn't it obvious since I bought the stuff and hid it in my camping bag? She didn't agree. I noted for her that I was kind and gentle with her when I realized she forgot my birthday (while I kept her do for 3 weeks), and she tore my head off when I did remember her birthday. She told me she planned to get a gift in London, and her calendar was off by one day. I told her to remember that after my birthday she bought a tin of cookies there (she always tells me, by the way, that I am a child for eating "PLEASE READty foods" and that's part of why I"m a "fraud wellness professional") to bring home and told me it was "penance" for "forgetting my birthday" when she gave it to me. Doesn't sound planned to me.

Anyway...round and round, deflection, denial, accusations, attacks, character assassination, belittling, misdirection, wrong facts, huge anger and disdain and venom.

And I called her to apologize for not knowing about the eye surgery and to see what I could do for her- after she ghosted me for days and weeks, didn't communicate or even respond, and left for Christmas without me.

She left it at "I'll just leave you with this. I need someone who will show up in my life. And you are not that person. I gotta go." I said goodby.

[Meridius]

Hi Jaded,

Welcome to the site.  I'm relatively new myself.

I can relate to some of your things.  Especially the black and white thinking,  flipping answers because she can't remember something, and expectation of being able to read your mind.

I don't have much advice to offer, except one thing I told my current BPDw before we got married.  I remember you asked whether what is happening is normal. 

"Telepathy is not in the vows"

Loved ones thinking you can read their minds is common human expectation.  Losing their temper when you can't...is that a smooth and comfortable way to deal with that?

Meridius

[jaded7]

After no sleep last night, I just want to thank those of you chiming in. What I wrote last night, though, long, is not even all of what she said/did yesterday on the phone. I was and am completely shellshocked.

I feel so guilty about the eye surgery, but holy cow...she stopped communicating with me for literally weeks and left town for Christmas with no word, leaving me alone and crying with her present I bought sitting next to me. I mean...what the?

She NEVER mentioned the eye surgery again after talking about it October, and then went completely non-communicative over the holidays. Couldn't she have sent a text when she scheduled the exact date? Couldn't she have emailed me the date and time? She certainly does when she insists I put things on my calendar. Couldn't she have told me on the phone when she knew exactly when or where? She didn't do any of these things.

When she berated me for "not showing up for her, her friends did" I pointed out that she was actually communicating with them, of course that would have come up in conversation and gave them an opportunity to be there.

I don't know, oh my God I'm suffering right now. All of this cannot be normal.

[jaded7]

And I want to be clear, she hadn't scheduled a date and time when we discussed it in October, she was in fact thinking about dates in November or December. It was just a general "in the first part of January". So whenever she DID schedule this in November or December, she simply never told me and never talked about it. And, during those months she was again going days and weeks without returning calls or texts. And when I finally told her that was really painful and invalidating, she told me " she's been talking with her friends, they understand her life". She was, in fact, ghosting me out of her life...intentionally.

[Ozzie101]

I'm so sorry, jaded7. That sounds like such a painful evening. I've experienced that sort of thing myself (though in my case, it was in person). It's so hard to listen to those accusations, to feel the guilt while at the same time knowing on some level that it's all smoke and mirrors.

My H threw some awful threats and accusations at me -- as well as tossing some furniture around. I was left shaking and hurt and absolutely devastated. Yet, in the light of day, I was able to look back and say, "He was wrong." Learning about BPD and how the BPD mind tends to work has gone a long way to my being able to detach when he's dysregulating and to communicate and handle it in a way that keeps things from going off the rails.

Know this: You did what you could do. She didn't communicate with you. That's not your fault. In a normal relationship, with a well-regulated person, they let their loved ones know things. They don't expect mind-reading.

From the sounds of it, she was having a huge dysregulation. She probably felt abandoned (even though her lack of communication caused it and it was not conscious abandonment on your part). Feelings = facts for pwBPD, so all the facts you state here and that you told to her were not going to have any impact. She felt hurt and abandoned. That's all that matters to her. She wasn't going to hear you. She was too emotionally triggered. You can argue or point things out or defend yourself (JADE) until you're blue in the face, but it won't work. She'll just dig in deeper and get more and more upset, as you discovered last night. Painful and frustrating, but a reality of these relationships.

That was one of the hardest things for me to realize: reality doesn't matter. The feelings do. Get at the feelings underneath. Validate those feelings and things tend to go a lot better.

Hang in there, jaded. We're here for you!

[jaded7]

At one point I remembered your thing about feelings and validation, so I said in a very calm and measured voice (I never yell at her or scream or call names)...

"Honey. I know sometimes when we feel great anger and animosity it really can be coming from a place of not feeling loved or acknowledged. I want you to know that I love you and appreciate you. I do, and I hope you can hear that. I know that we've had some problems here, but I love you very much."

Didn't work, maybe for about 10 seconds...but then she ramped up again with accusations and attacks. Very personal attacks...on me, my character, how "stupid" my business is, I have no friends, etc. etc

[Ozzie101]

I'm sorry. I probably should have been more clear. The SET and validating statements aren't magic pills, unfortunately. When someone is in full-on melt-down mode, they may not work. It takes time (and not just during one conversation -- we're talking over days/weeks/months) for the change in approach to really work. Sort of like building a foundation. The best you can hope for is a diffusion.

In this instance, I would have tried phrasing it more like this:
"Honey, I hear you. If I felt like I was being abandoned or neglected, I would be upset, too. That must really hurt."
Note that in this scenario, you don't admit that you abandoned or neglected her. You recognize her feelings. But you don't make assumptions or assert things that, at the moment, she feels are untrue.

It's tricky sometimes, I know. There's a lot of careful wording involved.

It sounds like this was a very big dysregulation. Sometimes in those, all you can do is go silent and let them get it all out. The trick is in not letting it get to you. Defending yourself, arguing, etc., is like throwing gas on the flame. Not easy, I know. I tend to just remind myself that H is dysregulating and that I know he's wrong. But it's taken a lot of work and practice to get there.

If she was in physical pain and her fear of abandonment had been triggered, she was looking to lash out. And, on some level, she likely wanted an emotional reaction from you. Did she get it? Does she usually? There's a form of manipulation in there.

[jaded7]

If she was in physical pain and her fear of abandonment had been triggered, she was looking to lash out. And, on some level, she likely wanted an emotional reaction from you. Did she get it? Does she usually? There's a form of manipulation in there.

Just finished with my therapist. I'm such a wreck it's unbelievable. Crying and crying. I want to reach out to her and offer to send her some food or something, but afraid of the response. I just want to take care of her, in spite all of this. It's so confusing. I"m so deeply attached to her and don't believe that she would really means to be this punishing and cruel, that' not who she is. That's what I continue to believe.

My therapist told me that she makes me miserable, hasn't done a single thing for me in the last ten months, has called you such horrible things- ABUSIVE is the word she used- toward me, who I am, my life and my business. And yet somehow I want to make her feel better. But...did she care about my feelings when she was ghosting me and snapping at me and leaving town without communication and leaving me here alone on Christmas with her present next to my chair. No.

My therapist thinks this whole thing with the eye surgery is manipulation. She could have told me in November when she made the appointment. She's done that with lot's of other things. But she didn't, and never mentioned it. Then ghosted me and left without me...and expected me to remember the time frame and ask her when the appointment was. Even as the date was coming up she could have let me know, but didn't.

I'm now beating myself up for being such a bad person, for not answering her call on the 31st instead of just texting her that I was trying to be centered and wasn't up to talking with her that night. If I'd only answered the call, she would have probably told me about the appointment, and then I could have been there for her, and none of this would have happened.

She did get an emotional reaction, I called her crying and apologizing. She then used that to attack me- "my friends all remembered" (she was actually communicating with them), "oh, so you want me to take responsibility for keeping track of things for YOU" (as in, I have to tell you when it was, my life is busy enough already and now I have to run your life, etc...remember, it was only a time period back in October, not an exact date).

My therapist seems to think it was intentional...come to think of it, it had to be intentional, and manipulative to then wait and see if I remembered as she not communicating and leaving town. All so she could then send that email attacking me for being a person who doesn't show up, how bad I am and how much she's suffering and I wasn't there for her.

When all she had to do was communicate with me and/or let me know when she set that day and time. So so curious that she never did that.

[Ozzie101]

I agree with your therapist. It sounds very much like manipulation -- and testing. Very common with pwBPD. Also very common with emotional abusers.

What you're describing about your feelings is FOG (Fear Obligation Guilt). She withheld information. She verbally attacked you. Yet you feel like a bad person for it.

You're not a bad person. You're dealing with someone who has a personality disorder and who is emotionally and verbally abusive and that can really mess with your thoughts and feelings.

I'm glad you're getting help. What does your therapist advise? How does your T plan to help you with these things?

[jaded7]

I just want to thank you so much Ozzie. I feel better with your responses, and I don't feel so alone.

Today I'm specifically suffering about her line in the email that included "And I'm grieving what I thought we had". This so cuts to my heart.

This, from the woman who hasn't been to my place in 6 months. Who hasn't had sex with me in 6 months. Who literally ignored my text messages to come over and connect starting last spring so I quit. Who hasn't done a thing FOR me in 8 months- nothing. Who over the last 5 months went on weeks-long ghosting of not responding to texts or phone calls, leaving me devastated. Who went up to her family's house this summer with friends and didn't even invite me. Who has repeatedly called me names, belittled me and made fun of me. Who hasn't invited me to her place in 11 months- for a dinner, for a lunch, for a walk, for sex, to hang out EXCEPT 6 weeks ago to build her son's basketball hoop since she didn't have socket wrenches. This was during a time when she wasn't communicating and the text I got was "do you have socket wrenches" and then "build basketball hoop at noon?". I said "or play new game with (son)? she said "no, basketball hoop". This from the woman who told me 8 weeks ago when I again responded to a text that was short and disrespectful "have an hour in your neighborhood" and met her where I told her ignoring me, not responding to calls and texts and lunch invitations is disrespectful, invalidating and hurtful immediately told me that "she's been talking and spending time with friends, they understand my life" and "your uncultured, you don't read enough books, eat PLEASE READty food and have takeout boxes in your refrigerator" and "our lives are on different paths" then stormed out of the cafe in the store. Who then two days later when I was shattered and took 1 day to respond to a text that said "talk tomorrow" sent me another email detailing how cruel, punishing and horrible I am" for not responding to her and causing her pain.

I could go on and on. She seems to look for the best possible way to make me hurt, she knows I love her and she knows I would do anything for her. How could you grieve for what we had when you were doing all of that showing your disdain for me? When we literally never saw each other although I tried, when you literally ignore, tell me how PLEASE READty I am, and make zero time for us? When we have no sex life and you intentionally withdrew it? What did we have?

[jaded7]

AND on the SAME DAY she wrote the email saying that 'she's grieving what we had" the same person tells me on the phone

-I'm a fraud wellness professional
-I"m a Liar (when she has provably been lying to me about being busy, etc)
-My business and it's classes are 'stupid'
-I'm a plagiarist
-I "bullPLEASE READted" her Dad by telling him I couldn't go to dinner because I had an event at my business "ooh...right, big event a stupid spin class"
-I have no friends (not even remotely true...she met one and called him a "pompous ass after walking out of the restaurant)
-I don't contribute to the community
-I never show up for her (when that's ALL I've done over the last 10 months as she's ghosted me, left me out of things, denied sex, ignored me, belittled me and she's done precisely nothing for me)
- who left town at Christmas without a word, leaving me alone at Christmas because "she didn't want to cover up for me in front of her family again" (she revealed this to me in her anger on the phone) I have precisely zero idea of what she's talking about, what she needs to cover up.
-Screaming at me that I gave her a "PLEASE READty book "I got in the checkout line at New Seasons" for her LAST Christmas. (This checkout line accusation is not the first, it's weird. I shopped for that book and spent an hour in a boutique thinking how nice it would be for us to do the hikes in it together, marking them off, taking pictures, etc)
- who had ghosted me for a full week starting with asking her to lunch on December 18th (she ignored my phone call AND text) and in her anger on the phone she told . me that me asking her to lunch made her because she has a busy life (she works from home, has spent literally all day with me in the past many many times, has always called and texted during the day, the very day before we talked on the phone for an hour. I said would you simply ignore your friend ____ if she asked you to lunch? She says "______ would know I'm busy. I said how would she know? She then told me she told me she was busy Tuesday...SHE DID NOT). She was OFFENDED by me asking her to lunch, ignored me in anger and punishment and cruelty.


ALL these things were said to me within 2 hours of her saying she's "grieving what we had)

[scaredrobot]

It looks like you've been dealing with quite a bit of pain from this whole experience. The mixed messages are so confusing, and the abusive treatment hurts.

Have you ever seen a toddler have a complete meltdown when overtired or scared? They will flip and lash out and make absolutely no sense over absolutely anything. At the same time, they need mommy or daddy but also hate them. The parents quickly learn to not be too affected by this because it's not really about them. The child does not have the skills yet to deal with the big feelings s/he is having and is responding the only way s/he knows how.

A person with BPD has this same lack of skill, and the emotions are very big. Unlike with a child, though, they also have a larger vocabulary, physical maturity, and other means to lash out. Plus, the relationships are different, so as nons, we naturally have different expectations. But for our own sanity within these relationships, we need to really understand these tantrums for what they are.

That doesn't mean we accept abuse - we don't deserve it ever, and these are adults who are responsible for their behavior regardless of their feelings. Even the toddler's behavior is typically not allowed/rewarded although it is understood.

Bottom line: try not to internalize her mean words/actions. It's not really about you. She is scared and needy and sees you as a safe space. Whether and how you accept that role is up to you.

[Ozzie101]

Good points, scared robot. And I've used the toddler analogy before (even if it seems a little insulting to talk that way about adults -- oh well). That was the first "lightbulb" moment for me with H. One night when he was melting down, I looked at him and realized "He looks just like a scared toddler throwing a tantrum." That's when I knew there was something else going on than just him being kind of angry.

One of the keys to dealing with all this is learning not to internalize. Not to let what they say or do trigger us. That's often what they want -- to get some kind of emotional response. H has admitted as much to me. It's not a mature or healthy coping mechanism. For me, knowing what he's trying to do (whether consciously or subconsciously) makes it easier for me to be detached.

[jaded7]

Just a quick not about the toddler analogy and feeling abandoned or unloved but not knowing how to deal with it.

VERY early in our relationship (I wrote about this more extensively in my first post I think) she had mentioned maybe 3 weeks earlier that her son was occupied with something all day on a certain Saturday. That's it. No plans were ever made for that day, we talked and saw each other everyday in that time, we even spoke on the phone for an hour the night before. No mention of any plan for the day.

We went to the market in the morning like we always did, had a great time, she brought me back to my work like she always did. I noticed a change in body language and communication on the way back to my work. When we got there she asked me what I was doing now and I said taking a quick nap (I had worked all day and into the night with an event, worked in the morning another 4 hours). She literally EXPLODED at me saying that "I'm cancelling plans" "I don't prioritize our relationship" and "what, are TRYING to get me to break up with you?"

No amount of logic would work- I tried to explain we never had plans, she never said anything, I could take a quick rest and then we could spend the day together, or ok let's go do something then...absolutely nothing would work.

Two days of silent treatment followed.

[jaded7]

I'm struggling today. I intellectually know all the things she's done, the horrible dehumanizing names she called me this week, the ghosting and the projecting, the massive anger etc etc, the deliberate ignoring me- calls, texts- over the last few months (she admitted it), the ceasing of communication and leaving town without a word at Christmas when she said she was going to invite me up to the family house, etc. etc.

But I'm feeling horrible for HER right now. I want to take care of her, I want to make her feel better RIGHT NOW. I want to call her, text her, tell her that I will bring her some food, let her know that she'll be ok...etc, etc.

And yet, I KNOW she didn't think for a second about me, as she was packing her bag to head out of town on the 23rd- no text, no call- as she was loading the car -no text, no call- as she drove the 3.5 hours to Seattle- no text, no call- arrived in Seattle- no text, no call- about me waking up alone on Christmas Day, her present still in its package next to me chair, crying as I walked to Starbucks by myself. Knowing her last communication to me was Christmas Eve morning saying "tired. going to take some time to recalibrate", the first in 6 days, and she's already been in Seattle for a full day.

When I tried to explain to her how painful this was to me, ignoring me for days and then leaving town, she angrily responded "You knew where I was". As in, what? My goal isn't to know where you are. That's not the point.

What the hell is wrong with me?

[Harri]

This thread reached the max post limit and has been locked and split.  Part 2 is here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=342567.msg13097911#msg13097911

Thank you.