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Author Topic: Should I ask her if she's sure it's over?  (Read 565 times)
Kelbel

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« on: January 20, 2020, 05:56:54 AM »

My partner (undiagnosed with if not BPD then what I think are BPD traits) ended our 16 year relationship two days ago.

We have both independently gone down the No Contact route. We will need to have contact to sort out some practical issues (house, finances etc) but for now there is silence. I'm hundreds of miles away presently, for other reasons, so there is not even the possibility of incidental contact by being in the same place.

I desperately want to email to ask her 'are you sure this is what you want?' But I think I should respect her decision, even if I can't know if it's really what she wants. And I don't want to cause her, or myself, more pain. And I think that if I receive a response it will be 'yes', whatever is going on in her mind, and in any case I think she may actually mean it, not just in the moment, in this zone, but more broadly.

Am I right to resist asking her the question?

 
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« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2020, 05:05:56 PM »

Hi Kebel.

I am so sorry to hear that she broke things off with you.  16 years is a long time.

I would hold off asking the question.  As you said, she will say yes at this point and I agree with that.  I also read in another post that you realize it is probably best for you to focus on what you want rather than what she wants. 

How are you doing today?
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« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2020, 04:24:30 AM »

who initiated and pushed for the breakup, and why?
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Kelbel

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« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2020, 05:01:52 AM »



How are you doing today?


Thanks Harri. I'm feeling confused, a pretty down.

I drank too much last night, so that will be having a depressive effect. Excessive alcohol use is pretty par for the course for me these days, and I know I need to address that. I agree I shouldn't ask the question just now while I work through my own feelings and what I want. And again the alcohol won't help with that.

It's hard because the longer this goes on the more out of control I feel I will be of the outcome if I decide I do want to work at this, which is not a healthy way to look at it and is me wanting to control my partner's decisions in a way, which is not healthy or fair. I guess I'm afraid of the BPD-ness, the fear of abandonment, running away with this and, if we're not already there, this space putting us beyond reconciliation. I'm also worried about my partner while we are in this state of no contact, as I know she is isolating herself. And I'm fearful of what is to come if this break up sticks.

So I'm all over the place really!
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Kelbel

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« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2020, 05:44:34 AM »

who initiated and pushed for the breakup, and why?

Hi Once Removed

The the simple answer to your question is that my partner initiated and pushed for the break up due to being unhappy with my decisions and behaviour that (I think) she felt meant I don't prioritise her and that I'm abusing her financially.   

It's complicated.

My partner withdrew from me at the end of September and since then we have had no physical contact and only very superficial, sporadic communication. The withdrawal was triggered, I think, by my deciding to stay away from our home for a prolonged period due to our dog receiving treatment for cancer, and the financial impact of this on my partner. Honestly, I didn't communicate well about this, which did not help. My absence and financial stress to which my partner believes I contribute (and she is right to an extent on that) have been triggers before. I think fear of abandonment is at the root of it, and my partner consistently feels that she is a low priority of mine and that she is financially taken advantage of, and I think this influences how she interprets my decisions and behaviour. That's not to say I think I get everything right, but I of course have my own experience of our situation, my own version and story. I am definitely guilty though of being complacent when things are calm, not recognising how my decisions trigger my partner, and being careful about how I communicate with her - I do tend to avoid, which is something another board member has suggested I work on.

Anyway, usually in this situation I would try hard to resolve the matter by forcing communication. But on this occasion, with the extended separation involved and also me recognising that forcing communication (by becoming upset, angry, hysterical etc) is not particularly a good thing, I haven't.

When I was at our home on Saturday I approached my partner and said we could not go on like this. After a short exchange she stated that 'there is no relationship any more'. I could then have chosen to ask an open-ended question for clarification, asked something like 'what do you want to do to resolve that?' or 'do you want to work on this to change that?' or 'what can we do to make this better?', or simply 'why?', but I didn't, I asked 'do you mean you want the relationship is over? are you ending the relationship?'. This was not a good way to go about things. As I've been advised before on this forum when this happened a couple of years ago, but clearly didn't really take on board (though it is hard in the moment to know the right thing to say), by presenting that question, in L's eyes I may be telling her that that is what I want.

I think my different behaviour (i.e. not 'losing it', to try to get L to communicate, and being fairly uncommunicative myself in response to L's withdrawal) this time round, plus our physical separation by hundreds of miles at this point, have given a new dynamic, and I think is resulting in a different outcome to usual.

Sorry for the long response! and thank you for asking. Answering questions is helping me clarify my thinking about what happened, and to get it out there in case anyone has any thoughts. 



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Rev
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« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2020, 06:45:57 AM »



Am I right to resist asking her the question?

 

Hi - Boy do I feel for you. We've all been there - each discard is different for its context - each discard is similar for the effect that it has.

I agree with focussing on what you need to think and feel.  That may be counter intuitive and feel wrong morally right now (at least it did for me at the time) but I have discovered that forging new habits leads to clearer thinking.

So yes - stay off of booze if you can and replace that with exercise if you can. I did a combination of walks and taking long drives. I did pick up smoking again for at time which I managed to quit - so I get how hard that can be.

Here is a list of what my recovery looked like last summer in the wake of my break-up.

Hope it sparks some thoughts for you...  (you will see reference to "her new brother".  My ex-wife's new supply is her new found biological brother - she's adopted - they're having an affair of some sort.)

1) I gave myself 72 hours to have the biggest pity party of my life.  Laid it all out - cried and screamed and drank a little too much even.

2) I put a plan down with a to-do list. Find a place, get my name off the old lease, that kind of stuff.

3) I have a mentor at work that I trust with my life. I told her what was going on. I let her coach me through all the no contact stuff. Some of her advice was really counter intuitive to what I would normally have wanted to do. Good thing I listened to her and didn't listen to my instincts at the time.

4) I chose three friends - only three - who did not know of each other but knew of each other - to hold me to account to make sure I followed through on the things I needed to do. They loved me unconditionally even as they held me to account. I did not listen to anyone else's advice. Too many cooks - that kind of thing.

5) I took the offensive with my ex. I read everything I could on BPD and NPD to get the upper hand in the separation. Even though it felt awful to mess with her that way, it was the only way I could think of to get her claws out of me - which were pretty tenacious because she tried more than once to charm me.

6) Once I got some steam behind me, I did counselling. CBT to be exact to deal with the PTSD. That was the toughest part because I kept reliving the images in my head.  I literally forced myself with the help of the CBT to train my brain to think differently. I did that every day for a month - long enough for new habits to form.

7) And then I got tough. She called to bully me on the phone because she didn't want to sign the separation agreement as it was - she wanted to talk about it instead.  No dice. I told her - '' I am so done with you now'' and "here's one thing you don't get to do now - tell me what to do.'' Then I blocked her on social media. She went ballistic. I toughed it out. She showed up to my work place two months later with some personal effects she had been holding on to, I slapped a cease and desist on her and her new brother. She went even more ballistic.

8) All of it hurt like hell because at the time, I would have taken her back. But here's the thing. There never was a her. It was all lies. The very premise for us getting together in the first place was a lie. And every time I feel like I am slipping, I log on here, listen to good quality pod casts or go back to read good stuff. And I remember who she is and what she did to me.


Rev
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Kelbel

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« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2020, 12:41:02 PM »

Thanks Rev. Good to know what has worked for you.

I'm not in that place yet where I know I want to move on without her. And if I do reach that place, and my ex changes her mind, I don't believe she will aggressively try to reunite. She is much more likely to wait to see if I try to reunite with her, and if I don't then if she tried anything it would be quite gentle, I think, and she would take no for an answer. I think she may already have moved on in her own mind, and even if not our continued lack of communication and the distance will make it more likely that that will happen. It's hard to know it will play out as this is only the third discard on this scale in all our time together and as you know things are different this time.

I am worried that, once we do start to move on, particularly if I reject an effort to reunite, she will make an enemy of me in her mind and seek revenge through financial means - I'm just thinking about the nature of the condition she may have, and that we will be in unchartered territory if it gets that far. Everything is being made all the less personal by the physical distance and lack of communication, which scares me too - I think she can't really see me for me now already, and that this effect will only increase as time progresses.

On another matter, if our relationship was on an even keel, I would have returned home with our dog by now and be getting back to normality (normal for us presently means me travelling between islands every couple of weeks, with our dog, spending 2 weeks at my parents' house due to my Mum's condition, then 2 weeks at home and so on). The logistics are complicated and it's not a simple decision to stay / go. Now I'm not sure where to be. I'm in limbo.

I'm not sure that L even recognises that the reason I'm not yet home is because she hasn't spoken to me for over 3 months. I haven't communicated my rationale for anything to her lately, in the face of her silence, as I feel like one way communication is unfair. My approach to this is new. L may well be misinterpreting my continued absence as continued neglect of my responsibilities and of her, and a statement of my intention going forward. In hindsight, my lack of communication (in response to her lack of communication) probably hasn't helped and I wonder if I am guilty of game playing, or am I just trying to put in place a boundary?  

I feel like I want to go home for a while. But I don't know what my motives are. The only real separation we have had previously was for 9 months about 6 years ago, and I remained in our home and did not relocate away as I naturally would do if I'd accepted that the relationship had truly ended and that that was what I wanted. I stayed in the hope that we would reconcile, which we did.

I guess all I can do for now is to keep thinking about what I want in relation to the relationship, i.e. to reconcile or not, and not rush that decision for fear the she will wholesale move on in her mind (which she may already have done) before I decide. And when I know what I want I will know what to do and where to be.

Thanks again for listening everyone, and any advice or observations would be very welcome.
 



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« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2020, 12:57:12 PM »

I know your pain, we’ve all opened our mouths and inserted foot.  These relationships are taxing.

I’ve learned (as others have) that asking if they want to end it generally isn’t going to get an honest answer.  My uBPDh always says ‘yes’ or ‘pretty much’ when we’re in a circular digressing conversation.  We’ve done this dance so many times it’s a script.

I did it again last night, he said ‘pretty much’, and then he called this morning.  I’m getting better at stopping the bleeding.  He’s poking his head out of his shell much more quickly these last several days.

Truth be told, H doesn’t know what he wants.  That’s honest of him but before learning about BPD I just thought it was a cop out.  Well, he wants the relationship (otherwise he’d have already divorced me) but deals with paralytic fear by hiding out in his shell.  The less I push, the better the results.  I’m simply trying to stop my part in the dance and no it’s not easy.  However, each time I get better results I’m motivated to slow myself down to his pace (it’s like an elderly person with a walker except H needs an emotional walker, so to speak).

Shame, fear, and abandonment underlie his condition.  Me pushing exacerbates his fear.  And his shame.  And his abandonment fears.  So he draws into his tortoise shell until he feels safe enough to poke his head out.  I’ve never gotten a tortoise (in real life) to poke his head out until I pulled away and ignored it.  Animals sense danger.  So do humans.  They (animals and humans) also sense when I’m a safe person, I’ve seen it time and again with injured wildlife and domestic animals, children and the elderly.  I learn a lot about behavior from animals.  They’ll run from the very thing they want because they are on high alert for danger.  I see BPD as more of a coping mechanism to survive childhood that works against them in adulthood.  And I often forget my H doesn’t work out of an emotional adult toolkit.  I’m having to separate the person from the illness.  It’s hard, that illness is wearing my H’s face so I get sidetracked easily.

I’m learning, I’m new here, and I don’t know if sharing my experience helps at all yet the other posters are giving great feedback and empathy.

Like someone told me earlier, do something relaxing today that doesn’t involve thinking about the BPD.  I so get what you’re feeling, focus on caring for yourself.  What helps when things get strained, what helps you?

Keep posting, folks on this site are awesome and I’m learning from everyone!
« Last Edit: January 21, 2020, 01:10:48 PM by 2Loyal2Long » Logged
Kelbel

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« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2020, 07:42:07 AM »

2Loyal2Long, thank you. I really appreciate your comments.

Your insights are very helpful and though you are new to this group you seem to be learning very quickly, and using what you're learning.

You mentioned the pushing exacerbating your H's fear and other emotions. That makes great sense. I used always to push and am not now. I'm afraid of the consequence of that because it's such new territory, but it feels instinctively (though I simultaneously have a great urge to go back to pushing) like the right thing to do.

I will take your advice and will try consciously to do at least one healthy thing each day that is just for me, I think.

Take care.
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Kelbel

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« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2020, 09:53:59 AM »

Just need to let out my feelings about something that's just happened.

My (ex?) partner's sister has just messaged me and asked if L and I are still together (we've been in touch recently over something totally unrelated so I guess she took the opportunity to ask by the way). I had a great surge of sick feeling. I feel silly for being affected by this, which has nothing to do with me and L directly. But when people start talking about it, it makes it real. I want to know why she asked, but I just sent a message back to say I would prefer not to discuss mine and L's relationship.

I still feel sick - which is a constant at the moment anyway, now I'm just feeling more sick.

I need to sort myself out.
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« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2020, 02:24:11 PM »

Hi Kelbel.   Virtual hug (click to insert in post)

Excerpt
I had a great surge of sick feeling. I feel silly for being affected by this, which has nothing to do with me and L directly. But when people start talking about it, it makes it real. I want to know why she asked, but I just sent a message back to say I would prefer not to discuss mine and L's relationship.
I think it is natural to feel upset given the situation and stress you have been under.  Give yourself a break.  Virtual hug (click to insert in post)

I think your reply was excellent.  Very well done.   Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)  It might have been hard and is making you feel uncomfortable, but (!) I think that too is natural.  By not talking about it (whatever "it" ends up being) you are not giving "it" life.  The topic of your relationship is between you and your partner.

A lot of working though his issue is going to involve self-care and managing our own feelings of distress.  Change is hard.  Stress is... well... stressful.  Sadness, depression and grief all come together and make a mess of emotions to work through.  Sometimes riding out those feelings is the only solution as we do self care.

Are you familiar with Mindfulness?
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« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2020, 04:31:35 PM »

So I will keep this short and simple. How about you do yourself a favor and ask yourself...what do you really want? Answer that question first. Take time to figure it out. Don't rush. Once you have figured that out and look at all scenarios then proceed forward. Also, please by all means start practicing self-love and self-respect. What I mean...you should not ever let anyone essentially have control over your decision making other than you yourself. If you respect yourself first then others will follow your example. Take the steps necessary to make yourself happy.

Cheers and best wishes!

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Kelbel

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« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2020, 04:55:29 AM »

Thank you Harri and SinisterComplex. Good advice again. I really appreciate this.

Mindfulness, yes, I have tried practicing it a little before and I know it would help. I'm finding it hard to make healthy choices while I wallow, and I'm possibly spending too much time thinking about how we got to this point, what I could have done better, BPD, CPTSD etc, and I really need to keep the focus on what I want. It's hard to stay away from working through what happened, though, and the implications of various mental health aspects, as it seems part of figuring out what I want, if that makes sense.

As for what I want, I'm confused. I love L, and believe her to be a beautiful person, and we have had some wonderful times. I think she loves (or loved?) me, but that she devalued me, and did not prioritise me really, and we have had some very hard, unpleasant times, driven by L's rage and other emotions, and by my own issues impacting on my response as well as more broadly in the relationship - we have both done damage.

I think of how I have felt in the relationship over the years, the violent arguments, the stressful holidays, the walking on eggshells, the feeling like what I wanted didn't really matter, the feeling not good enough, feeling less respected and loved than before. And I think about how I did not prioritise L - I think I did in the beginning, but that changed over time, and I feel that this was in response to L's behaviour to me, feeling devalued and unprioritised myself, but I know I need to be careful not to blame L for my behaviour and my decisions, which I think I may have been doing for a long time (blaming her).

Given how I have felt in the relationship, is that what I want? It had got better, much better, partly possibly as a result of my partner being on antidepressants, which I think have suppressed her anger I think (I don't think that medication is an actual solution, and believe that actual work needs to be done, but it has certainly calmed things down, which should have helped us do the work, but we didn't do the work), and I think also partly due to my partner feeling more secure in the relationship. And the fact that it has been better makes me wonder if it could be better still, if we worked on our issues - my co-dependence, avoidance, and possibly CPTSD (the latter I think largely from the relationship), as well as L's issues, which may be BPD, and I certainly think she has CPTSD. I know I need to be careful not to think I can diagnose, and to not focus on labels. I keep having to check myself!

The fact that things were better is partly why I am beating myself up a bit about getting to this point, and thinking through how it happened, and feeling it could have been prevented.

I think maybe where I am getting to in terms of what I want is that I don't want the relationship we had, and I'm realising that the relationship towards the end was calmer and better, but dysfunctional in a different way than it had been before, and as much to do with my mental health issues now as L's (I know I need to take responsibility for the state of the relationship throughout the relationship, but I hope you know what I mean). I'm willing (eager, in fact) to work on my issues, but for a healthy relationship, or for me to have the relationship I want, it would take both of us, and should I push L towards exploring her mental health? From what I'm reading, the answer to that is no, and I don't know if there is a way around this.

On another matter, L turns 50 next week. She doesn't acknowledge her birthday usually, and doesn't really get involved in other people's birthdays (including mine, which I have always accepted - though over the years she has softened on this, without me asking her to, and taken me to dinner to celebrate etc), so I usually do not make reference to her birthday at all. But I feel sad at the thought of this birthday passing for her under these circumstances.

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Kelbel

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« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2020, 10:37:58 AM »

I'm just thinking, though I wish we had when in a better place proactively sought to improve our relationship rather than letting it get to crisis point, in a way where I am at is a good thing.

The relationship was not a healthy one in a number of ways, but we were trundling along nonetheless, and this situation has forced me to start looking at that and my own issues. The outcome may be the end of the relationship, but if so it will be the end of a relationship I don't think either of us wanted - we both wanted a relationship with each other, but a different one. The outcome may be a healthier, happier relationship, and two healthier, happier people.

If we don't reconcile, and if that's not the choice I make but L's, I will regret not having done something to address our issues, and my issues, sooner. But I guess it took this to make it happen, and perhaps I should be grateful rather than regretful.
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Rev
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« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2020, 12:05:40 PM »



If we don't reconcile, and if that's not the choice I make but L's, I will regret not having done something to address our issues, and my issues, sooner. But I guess it took this to make it happen, and perhaps I should be grateful rather than regretful.

Yes... this is correct - and you would be really being kind to yourself If you were to remind yourself of this as many times as you need to.

It is an unfortunate and difficult symptom of BPD that this must escalate to get to some kind of clarity.

Stay firm my friend. Your boundaries are your best ally and, whether or not she knows it, hers as well. I was never a fan of the term "tough love" until I had to walk down the road you are walking down right now.

Congratulations on getting to the place you find yourself now. Stuff happens in life - that isn't what defines us. The choices we make as a result do. You're doing awesome.

Rev
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« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2020, 06:17:25 AM »

Thanks Rev.

I had a really positive start to the day today - I got up early for the first time in days, made a list of some things to do before I started work, noted what I did in my journal, even the smallest things, so I could see what I'd achieved, and also made an effort to notice and make note of my thoughts as they came, and notice and note my feelings and responses.

I noticed how quick to (internal, not expressed) anger I am over small things, and how frequently I am triggered to anxiety. I tried to identify what was triggering the anxiety. I also noticed that I'm triggered to feelings of shame and guilt. I considered whether I should make a list of the things I am ashamed of so that I could start looking at this - I don't know if that's a good idea.

I did the few things on my list, which was good.  

I then received an email from L this morning. It's the first contact we have had since I left on Sunday. It was just to ask me to post the car parking permit as she needs to give up the garage, and she signed off with 'Thank you'.

It triggered huge anxiety. L will naturally be making changes to arrange her finances to enable her to afford our home without me. I think I'm triggered by receiving an email at all, and this email involves what she's doing to move on. It's nothing unusual or earth-shattering, but it is triggering for me.

I would usually (whether we're on good terms or not) reply immediately to an email from L. But I waited an hour, in part I guess so that I wasn't seen to jump immediately (I hope this isn't game playing on my part, I don't think it is), and in part so I could consider my response, not that it was likely to be anything more than confirming that I would do as she had asked, but I wanted to think if there was anything I needed to add about arrangements about the car itself, and about my tone. I just replied to say will do and have a good weekend, and she replied 'you too'.

I still feel really shaken and it's thrown me off balance. I need to expect contact to have an impact and to prepare for that, and maybe find a way to stop it triggering such anxiety - is that possible? I've seen some workshops available on youtube on stopping emotional flashbacks so will look at those.

Anyway, that's where I am right now. Thanks again everyone for being there to talk to.



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« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2020, 11:33:24 AM »

Thanks Rev.

I had a really positive start to the day today - I got up early for the first time in days, made a list of some things to do before I started work, noted what I did in my journal, even the smallest things, so I could see what I'd achieved, and also made an effort to notice and make note of my thoughts as they came, and notice and note my feelings and responses.

I noticed how quick to (internal, not expressed) anger I am over small things, and how frequently I am triggered to anxiety. I tried to identify what was triggering the anxiety. I also noticed that I'm triggered to feelings of shame and guilt. I considered whether I should make a list of the things I am ashamed of so that I could start looking at this - I don't know if that's a good idea.

I still feel really shaken and it's thrown me off balance. I need to expect contact to have an impact and to prepare for that, and maybe find a way to stop it triggering such anxiety - is that possible? I've seen some workshops available on youtube on stopping emotional flashbacks so will look at those.


Yes - all of this is possible.  I will write again on this thread.  In the short term - and this was my personal approach so you'll need to try any method "on for size."  - up to 72 hours to respond to my ex - the more charged the situation the longer I would take - no more than 5 minutes on the phone - no more than six words in a text.

It's a question of cognitive conditioning until you can trust your emotional self again.

Make sense?  My intuition tells me that you are making great strides towards finding an equilibrium.

Rev

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« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2020, 03:24:38 AM »


My intuition tells me that you are making great strides towards finding an equilibrium.

Rev




Thanks Rev.

I feel like I am making strides - then striding right back. But I suppose that is all part of the process. I feel there is a lot of pain to come, whichever way this goes with L, but  I need to keep my eye on the future and remember that this pain is temporary and that if I am kind to myself (in intelligent ways), and to L, and if I (maybe even we) do the work there is a bright future, whether together or apart.

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« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2020, 07:54:06 AM »


Thanks Rev.

I feel like I am making strides - then striding right back. But I suppose that is all part of the process. I feel there is a lot of pain to come, whichever way this goes with L, but  I need to keep my eye on the future and remember that this pain is temporary and that if I am kind to myself (in intelligent ways), and to L, and if I (maybe even we) do the work there is a bright future, whether together or apart.



Yes!
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« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2020, 08:03:45 AM »

Hi everyone,

So .. where I have come to is that (my partner having ended our relationship just over a week ago, and us both independently being pretty much no contact with each other since) I’ve been doing some soul searching and now agree that the relationship wasn't right for either of us. We were just getting by. I think we both have mental / emotional health issues that need addressing and that our options are to move forward apart or together, but we can't go back to what we had.

My partner appears to be making changes to move on - it's actually much more straightforward for my partner to move on in a practical sense as she will stay in our home, keep the same job etc, and the changes are more about managing financially, and were probably changes that needed to be made anyway, whereas my location will change, which has a lot of implications. I'm not making any changes as I've been focussing on deciding what I want before committing to action. 

I want to move forward with L, but only on the basis that we both recognise we have to work on ourselves and the relationship.

Looking back at previous situations of high stress like this, when I speak to L I don't know how she will process what I'm saying – in my experience her self-protection mechanisms really go in to overdrive, and I can find that she oversimplifies and for her it's a matter of right vs wrong. I find her mentality can be 'you pushed me too far, you took advantage, and now you deserve what you get'. But I guess I can only speak from the heart. I need to be careful as I can become defensive, and also get in to ‘I did this, you did or didn’t do that’ mode, and also rush to reply rather than taking time to process. I find I can enter a conversation with L with good intentions for not debating etc, only to fall in to unhelpful behaviours in the moment. While I've been looking at what I want, I haven't been looking at strategies for communicating this to L, and I need take look at the resources on this site. I am thinking it would be helpful for me to specifically state at the outset to L that I am not looking for a response, I just want her to listen to what I have to say. I guess I may need to suggest a timescale for L to give it thought and for us to speak again. Any suggestions for communication strategies would be very welcome.

In the end I suspect that for L it will come down to the fact that I spent such a long time away, and put her at a financial disadvantage, because of a dog, and that she’s not happy about that and therefore the relationship is over. I can point out that this is in the context of a 16 year relationship where a lot has happened, and that I have also made sacrifices for the relationship. But in the past L has simply concluded with ‘it’s not worth it to me’, and I suspect her to say that again. I’d actually agree that the relationship as it was wasn’t worth it to either of us. I’ve split myself in two trying to be there for my Mum and maintain my life with my partner, and now care for our dog with cancer (not everyone understands the attachment to pets, I know, but he is hugely important to me and, I realise now, he is where all my maternal instincts are directed, and I want to do my best for him), and was not actually happy in the relationship. It really was not worth doing for that relationship. But the person herself is worth it, and what I’m proposing (if she thinks I’m worth it) is a different relationship, that will be worth it.

I’ve booked a flight for this Friday so will be there for the weekend. If anyone has any thoughts or suggestions based on what I’ve said here, your comments would be appreciated. I want to get this right.

Thank you for listening, again.
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« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2020, 03:48:49 AM »

Excerpt
I want to move forward with L, but only on the basis that we both recognise we have to work on ourselves and the relationship.

im hearing two things.

it sounds like part of you is leaning toward accepting that the relationship is better off over.

the other part is not done, and would prefer that not be the outcome.

what im wondering is, if a breakup is not your desired outcome, have you communicated that? if not, why not?
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« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2020, 09:22:26 AM »

im hearing two things.

it sounds like part of you is leaning toward accepting that the relationship is better off over.

the other part is not done, and would prefer that not be the outcome.

what im wondering is, if a breakup is not your desired outcome, have you communicated that? if not, why not?

Hi Once Removed, and thank you for your question. It really helps clarify my thinking.

There are a number of reasons I haven't communicated that I don't want to break up:

- You’re right – I was leaning in both directions, and still am to an extent, though I’m leaning much more towards having a future with L, if the relationship can be a healthy one (I know there are no guarantees, but at least to commit to try). By the time of the conversation with L, I want to be as sure as I can be of what I want, and want to be thinking and speaking clearly. I don’t want to rush my reflection or decision, but have set a timescale for myself because I can’t sustain my current position and need to move on one way or another, together or apart. When she is hurt, L really can dig in for the long haul and while this is her process and I guess I can’t force it (though even instigating the conversation is forcing it to an extent), I’m not prepared to wait for months to then possibly find out that though she wants to reconcile she won’t do the work I think we both need to do to make the relationship a healthy one.

I think my silence to this point may be sending messages to L, as it is unusual for me - but I find L’s responses such a challenge, driven as they are (I believe) by her defence mechanisms, that communicating anything to her at the moment is daunting. I wonder whether I should have at least communicated that, while L has told me what she has decided, I haven’t yet decided for myself what I want (which I think is helpful for me to do even if I can’t have what I want). But L herself has been pretty much no contact (as usual in times like this), so while staying quiet is not my usual approach, I think it is fair, and it feels right for me now. I had some fear that events may overtake me while I contemplate, but there is a part of me that thinks what will be will be, and I think I need to control my desire to control the outcome. I don’t want to push L in to a relationship with me – this bit is difficult though, as by asking for a conversation now, I will be pushing.

- I am trepidatious about L’s response (previously at these times, in my opinion, L’s responses have displayed evidence of distorted thinking, though I know that is subjective) and how I will deal with it, and have felt I need real preparation for this.

- I’m physically not there with L presently, and am hundreds of miles away. This is for practical reasons, but also because I have felt that the distance is healthy to enable us both to process. I don’t know if email would be an effective way of addressing this situation. I had looked at possibly returning sooner to approach this with her, but felt I needed more time, and also thought being there at the weekend would give more breathing space.

As I’m writing this I’m thinking ‘who am I to ask L to do work?’. On the relationship, yes, okay, but really I’m wanting her to do work on herself as well, on her emotional and mental health (as I now am on myself – but no one asked me to do that). Is that right? I suspect not, and what I’ve been reading and listening to is telling me that we need to find our own way to change. Exploring her emotions, if she’s willing to do it, will be very painful for L (she had a traumatic, abusive childhood), and should I ask that of her? So while I may know what I want (which is not to break up) that is conditional, and I don’t know if it’s right for me ask for that.

Again, any thoughts on this would be hugely appreciated.
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