BPD daughter attacked me to the point I could not defend myself, Part 2

[Parents! Get help here!]

Mod Note:  Part 1 of this thread is here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=342149.0

I so appreciate the thoughtful, non-judgmental, and supportive feedback I've gotten on this site. Thank you to all who have responded. I talked to my husband this a.m. about my decision. While he is not happy about it he does understand. DD is not in a position to live on her own. If I move we're hoping it will be temporary. They see her Dr. next week so if she gets on a med that stabilizes her I would consider staying. She's been on Geodon with increases and decreases for years and I do not see how it has helped. Her big concern is weight gain; that's why she accepted Geodon because that was not a side effect. Most anti-psychotics, mood stabilizers and anti-seizure drugs have that s/e and she has already said that if she started gaining weight she would d/c it immediately. I can only hope that if she does try a new med and she does start feeling better and more in control she would see the benefits and stay on it. I would love to do therapy and repair work with her. FF: my thoughts on calling the police are this; if we have to call them it's already escalated too far. That's what I want to avoid. I also have my own health to consider as far as moving. I have struggled with vertigo and vestibular migraines for years. Two months ago I had an MRI to see if there were any brain issues. They discovered a small Meningioma, which is a benign, slow-growing brain tumor. While chaos and violence are not good for anyone, I can't help but worry that these might escalate the growth of this tumor. My neurologist will do a follow-up in May. Surgery is not recommended because of its location and the potential for permanent damage. But if its growth eventually impinges on brain structures it may come to that. She spent last night with a friend and the calm energy in the house was palpable. My son recently said to me, "You are a good mom. Have you made mistakes? Yes. But you've also been very loving and caring. (Sister) was an incredibly difficult child/teen and she's an incredibly difficult adult. Don't beat yourself up." Coming from him, that meant the world to me.

[wavewatcher]

Mod Note:  Part 1 of this thread is here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=342149.0

I so appreciate the thoughtful, non-judgmental, and supportive feedback I've gotten on this site. Thank you to all who have responded. I talked to my husband this a.m. about my decision. While he is not happy about it he does understand. DD is not in a position to live on her own. If I move we're hoping it will be temporary. They see her Dr. next week so if she gets on a med that stabilizes her I would consider staying. She's been on Geodon with increases and decreases for years and I do not see how it has helped. Her big concern is weight gain; that's why she accepted Geodon because that was not a side effect. Most anti-psychotics, mood stabilizers and anti-seizure drugs have that s/e and she has already said that if she started gaining weight she would d/c it immediately. I can only hope that if she does try a new med and she does start feeling better and more in control she would see the benefits and stay on it. I would love to do therapy and repair work with her. FF: my thoughts on calling the police are this; if we have to call them it's already escalated too far. That's what I want to avoid. I also have my own health to consider as far as moving. I have struggled with vertigo and vestibular migraines for years. Two months ago I had an MRI to see if there were any brain issues. They discovered a small Meningioma, which is a benign, slow-growing brain tumor. While chaos and violence are not good for anyone, I can't help but worry that these might escalate the growth of this tumor. My neurologist will do a follow-up in May. Surgery is not recommended because of its location and the potential for permanent damage. But if its growth eventually impinges on brain structures it may come to that. She spent last night with a friend and the calm energy in the house was palpable. My son recently said to me, "You are a good mom. Have you made mistakes? Yes. But you've also been very loving and caring. (Sister) was an incredibly difficult child/teen and she's an incredibly difficult adult. Don't beat yourself up." Coming from him, that meant the world to me.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[formflier]

Calling or not calling police is an issue that many wrestle with.

One thing to consider. 

If there are no consequences for behavior that's outside your boundaries, what incentive is there for change?

Especially if your pwBPD figures out they can do whatever and others will  accommodate them.

Best,

FF

[wavewatcher]

I think you are right- I'm feeling so confused about all of this right now. Reading other posts of parents with adult BPD dd's is depressing in that the behaviors are so similar and don't seem to get much better; police/no police, meds, parenting differences, etc. There is still violence, self-harm, hatred /blame toward Moms especially. It's exhausting.

[formflier]

Your quote below certainly is true. 

  It's exhausting.

I'm wondering if this is the place to put your focus?

You are right in that we try to be "non-judgmental" (especially for people that are newer here).

That being said, please trust my judgment that getting some space, rest and calm will help you be able to sort some of these issues out.  Think of it like the brief you get on the airplane.  "put your mask on first, then help your neighbor."

When I read your posts I see lots of "decisions".  (moving out..etc etc)

Can you do this one thing for me?  Take each one of those decisions and put "for now" on the end of it.  See if that makes them "feel" different?

Last request from FF.  Please take care of yourself!  We can help you think all this stuff through (police/no police..etc etc) but we really can't do more than encourage you to take care of yourself.

We've got you on this!

Best,

FF

[wavewatcher]

Thank you FF. I felt like crying when I read your post. It's so supportive. I guess I've been looking at moving out as a chance to have a place of my own that I can breathe in and have positive energy without chaos and feel safe. She's been gone for 2 nights now and it has been heaven. But moving is stressful. I may not even find a place I can afford. I do like your suggestion, adding "for now". And doing more to take care of myself. I can do that.
Maybe when she's through her Xanax withdrawal she'll be less emotionally volatile.

[formflier]

  And doing more to take care of myself. I can do that.

 

Where has she been for the past few nights? 

Best,

FF

[livednlearned]

It sounds like she's really in a dysregulated phase right now (withdrawal from xanax, regression following hospitalization), and interestingly, she has removed herself from the home, at least temporarily. Is there communication about her return? Will you feel safe if she comes back before you find somewhere to stay?

My stepdaughter is not violent, thankfully. However, when she lived with us I had to take what I considered dramatic steps to ensure my privacy and space and peace of mind. Locking my door, putting on headphones and listening to music or meditating, having food and water in my room so I didn't have to go into the kitchen and encounter whatever crisis or drama was unfolding, not looking at my phone in case she was texting from the house somewhere. Even when I took time for myself, SD23 would camp outside the door. She would drag our dog there by way of explanation. "He seemed really sad out here by himself."

I've never met anyone who suffers to the depths that she does.

I had to create a space with palpable boundaries -- she is a swift emotional and psychological river and I constantly felt my feet being swept out from under me.

I started to learn some skills specific to help me have resolute boundaries with SD23. It's taken years to reset our relationship, and quite honestly, to retrain H to respect the boundaries I have for myself.

All of the skills I learned, I discovered here from friends. I have this metaphor or image I carry in my mind, in which I wake up each morning with a cup filled with self-compassion. My job every day is to keep that cup full to the brim, or fill up what I can. I do best with SD23 when my cup is totally full. When we first started to live together, my cup drained quickly. 

Separating yourself from someone who exhausts you is a first step to filling your cup, especially if you're ensuring your safety and being kind to yourself. Once you feel safe, there are other ways to metaphorically fill your cup or make sure it's being filled. For me, that was a radically different way to think of SD23. Instead of focusing on whether she was doing the right thing or not, I could focus on my little cup and what was going in and going out (and why).

These are not just difficult relationships, they are the most difficult.

We teach others how we expect to be treated, and it seems like you are taking important steps to communicate that to D. "I will not be abused."

[formflier]

LnL

I think it could be helpful for wavewatcher if you can lay out a timeline of how you learned navigate the difficult relationship with your step daughter.

Perhaps contrasting when you "put steps" or "boundaries" into place and how long it took for your stepdaughter to "get it" (or however you would describe that).

I think that might help her better understand the importance of "for now" and help her set expectations.


For the quote below about teaching your step daughter how you expect to be treated, I'm curious how much of what you taught her was verbal and how much was non-verbal (boundaries, etc).   Which seemed to be more effective?

We teach others how we expect to be treated, and it seems like you are taking important steps to communicate that to D. "I will not be abused."

Best,

FF

[wavewatcher]

For some reason my last post didn't come through. Or at least I can't see it. To recap:
DD was with friends the last 2 nights. She came home in a good mood today and so far it has been calm. I hope she spends more time with them as it's good for her to get out and be with people her own age. She's mostly stayed home while going through Xanax withdrawal. I'm also being very aware of how I interact with her today. Very neutral, as non-triggering as humanly possible.
LnL, I like your metaphor and visual of filling my cup with self-compassion. Taking care of myself. Keeping it full throughout the day.
As far as separating from her, I do that by going on walks, working, going out at night now and then. Since she's been living with her ex for the last year it wasn't an issue. Now that she's home it is. Locking myself in my room has had negative consequences in the past; she perceived it as abandonment by me. I did that the other night for safety reasons when she was in her episode and I thought she was going to break the door down. So she went downstairs and broke things.
FF, I like your idea of having LnL lay out a timeline for me. I appreciate any help.

[formflier]

Since she's been living with her ex for the last year it wasn't an issue. Now that she's home it is. 

When you get time, can you lay out what her living situation has looked like for the past few years.

It appears she has lived outside the home for some amount of time. 

How many times out of home and back in?

How was the decision made for her to move back in?  How were decisions made in the past for her to move out?

Best,

FF

[wavewatcher]

When she was in college she was back and forth- dorms/home. She's been in 3 different places since then, all in the city about 150 miles from us. We've moved her 7 times since H.S. In all of that time she would spend summers, weeks, or weekends with us depending upon her job, school or who she was with. As far as moving out she would make that decision. She would want to try going to school again. Or she would get sick of living with us. It's kind of a blur to me now. We both encouraged her to be on her own. The last place she lived was with her ex-boyfriend. It was way too soon in their relationship; she did not know how bad his alcoholism was (is). He was not violent toward her but she became very codependent. And she was violent toward him. It just got really bad for both of them so she found another place to rent a month before their lease was up. Then she decided she couldn't live on her own (this has always been a problem), and she has never been good with roommates (in the dorms). She came home one weekend to "reset" from the trauma of her relationship and has never left. She refused to live in the house she rented (we had to break the lease). She had no job. She longest she's held a job (many) is about 8-10 months. She either leaves- interpersonal differences, or she gets fired, for probably the same reason. She actually can be a great employee for awhile until the relationship issues surface. Typical BPD, huh. During all of the above time there was probably 15% of it that she was not chaotic, demanding and many times destructive.  In reading this it sounds like we were so enabling. If it had been me alone, I know I would have done a lot more tough-love. But who knows how that would have turned out? This is way more than you asked for. But it's so nice to be able to tell my story. Thanks for being interested and listening. 

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[wavewatcher]

My post got cut off- I know I didn't go over the limit. My last post never showed up. I guess I need to talk to admin! Any suggestions about that?
Here's the rest:  "...But it feels so good to tell my story. Thanks for being interested and listening."

[wavewatcher]

WW,
I wanted to jump in and say that our personal experience w/DS BP1 Xanax withdrawal was UGLY.  Xanax is a horrible drug and creates an impossible anxiety loop which can make people absolutely nuts. Add in BP mania and BPD emotional dysregulation and you’ve got pure explosives.

I know I’m writing everything you are well aware of, but I am cheering you on. I understand the sheer complexity of your situation. There is no clear path thru this and Xanax withdrawal can take months to clear the system. I hate the drug. When we’ve been in high crisis mode, we’ve been advised to just take the next best step.

I’m glad to hear you have face to face support. Take care of you!

[wavewatcher]

When we’ve been in high crisis mode, we’ve been advised to just take the next best step.
PeaceMom,
What has that looked like in your situation?  What has helped?

DD and H go to the city today to see her psychiatrist. She has had 2 episodes since my last post, but by my standards they were mild; yelling, throwing things, but nothing broken and nobody hurt. I pray to the universe that he will find a med for her that will help stabilize her violence, and that she will be compliant with taking it.

I am doing a much better job of taking care of myself, but her living her still takes a tremendous toll on both H and me.

[PeaceMom]

WW,
Typical the next best step is something that involves slowing every reaction down. The whole situation is explosive. You must keep your cup full. That is hard to do and requires mindfulness, healthy distraction, Hope/dream of a better day, laughter, movement, sleep, healthy food. Without those things you have no compassion and clear sightedness. I’m in a blur right now bc my DS w/BP1 seems to be getting a bit manic again and it is hard not to project and become very fearful about the what if’s.

I know you’ve shared but does DD have any type of day program to attend? They seem to be helpful when getting off   RX drugs.
Things can get better for sure. The truth is, we caregivers can’t do the work of our adult kids, but we sure can pour fuel in their fire and make things worse. I hope my thoughts are coming thru here, I’m in a really tough spot right now so not very sure of myself. What a struggle this life is!

[livednlearned]

it sounds like we were so enabling. If it had been me alone, I know I would have done a lot more tough-love.

It doesn't sound like enabling, it sounds like two parents with a special needs child doing the best with what they have. Be gentle with yourself. This stuff is not just difficult, it's the most difficult.

Having a BPD child is having a special needs child and the nature of the disorder can inflict a lot of damage to the family in ways that bring us to our knees. Being here means you want to learn and be more effective, and that's a huge step that will make a world of difference. There will be many many more steps to follow and a lot of trial and error, but you're on the path and that's hug worthy  

My timeline for healing and change in our family was not linear and came in unexpected bursts of insight that were counter intuitive. The first is that I realized my marriage is 95/5. Meaning, 95 percent of the time we are a team. When it comes to SD23, we are 5. In this domain, I am on my own more than other parts of my marriage, and that's not ideal but it's ok.

I am the emotional leader when it comes to SD23 and her dysfunction, so in this department I partner with H in a different way. I focus on my needs -- this is uncomfortable for me, but crucial. Mindfulness, especially guided meditations, let me experience what calm felt like, which is a foreign experience for my nervous system. SD23 is the third generation of BPD in my family history. The feeling of calm is now my touchstone, what I am going for. In the beginning, I only had distancing behaviors in my tool box, which dialed down the level of stress but didn't give me something sustainable to aim for.

I have other tools or skills now, most of them are proactive boundaries that I learned to set after tying myself into knots about the degree of boundary-less interactions with SD23 (and by proxy, H).

I also became good at identifying guilt -- feeling guilt was like breathing air for me. With the help of a therapist I realized that focusing on my needs makes me feel guilty and had to do some somatic experiencing therapy to work through that (very old) stuff. In a dysfunctional family, guilt is not necessarily a trustworthy feeling. I'm learning to question it and trace back where it's coming from and whether it's useful or effective.

When it comes to SD23, H is too flooded for verbal discussion. So I focus on non-verbal boundaries that I have control over. If I do discuss what I will and will not do, it's typically delivered as a heads up out of respect and then I don't discuss it unless H brings it up. Then, when the boundary is (inevitably) rolled over, I act. I do what I said I would do. This is not always comfortable which is why it's important to know what calm feels like. I use exercise and down-time, and social support, therapy and mindfulness to help me manage any distress I feel from asserting and enforcing a boundary.

For you, the extra room or apartment might be a transitional compromise that gives you a place to go when your D is dysregulating. "I will not be abused in my own home" has multiple solutions. The one you can control right now is removing yourself. Giving yourself space to feel safe, to show yourself you can be trusted to get to safety, may help other solutions become more visible as your sense of safety increases.

I spent a lot of time avoiding my home when SD23 lived here. There were days I saw her car in the driveway and I turned around and kept myself occupied outside my own home.

Then I started to identify the ways in which I was not asserting boundaries. When those boundaries were rolled over (often with H's help) I started to experiment. I asked SD23 to comply (please do not come into my bedroom or bathroom). Then I complained to H. When neither of those worked, I started locking my bedroom door. I wore headphones. I didn't check my phone. I created ways to protect my time and space because SD23 cannot tolerate being alone and I lack the authority and partnership to address this in ways I think are best for our family. So I control what I can control and everything else I let go (without guilt, with some effort).

Every time a boundary was verbalized, it became tested and rolled over, and a new breach appeared  On many boundaries, my own consistency and commitment (as well as becoming more assertive) wore SD23 out   and my wishes are now ultimately respected (though often tested). I assume that SD23 will test boundaries because it's how she's wired for now. If something comes up and I'm not sure how to respond, I often say, "I will think about it and get back to you. I'm learning to take a beat before I respond."

I'm also now able to say to H, I will do x when y happens. Essentially, SD23 was treating my home like it was hers and I had to walk that back so that she's the guest and I'm the homeowner. It took me a long time to be direct with SD23 without feeling flooded with emotion. That's where self-care really helped. I do better when I'm emotionally regulated before working with her (the full cup thing).

One example is that H would tell SD23 she could stay here without consulting me, including times when H was working (long hours). So I would be home alone with SD23. I could not get H to say no to SD23, and I could not get him to consult me. Those are things I ultimately had no control over. No amount of discussion seemed to change the outcome. What I did have control over is how I responded. If SD23 stays here when H is working, I make it clear to H that I will not be available. If I am consulted, I do my best to make time and structure it in a way that works for me.

If SD23 arrives when H is working and expects to be entertained and soothed and fed, I make it clear using I statements. "I do best when people contact me in advance to do things. Next time let's talk before to see if our plans sync up." Even if H (and SD23) hasn't responded reasonably to that, it is a reasonable thing to expect. Because they roll over my boundaries, I no longer feel guilt about getting my needs met. We can try out what it's like to be flexible when they demonstrate respect for my time.

Setting boundaries typically leads to some kind of crisis that SD23 needs solved and wants my immediate help. I'm learning to not solve things for her. "I don't have experience with that. I may not be the best person to help with this."

Most of us know how to manage ourselves in the shallow end of the pool, and some have experience handling ourselves in the deep end. BPD behaviors is more like open water and requires special, additional skills.

Right now you're in the process of realizing that your main support will come from people with open water experience. Interestingly, a lot of open water skills come from dialectical behavior therapy, the method of behavioral change designed by someone with BPD, for people with BPD.

Your H, he will most likely follow you when he sees you contentedly rowing your boat in open water. Then you can work on guiding D through actions and behaviors.  

[PeaceMom]

LNL,
Great, practical examples here. Your clear-headedness are enviable. So much of the time we feel perplexed and confused that we can’t get in front of the problem to even establish a workable boundary.  Living with these ill adult children 24/7 means there is a new crisis and/or challenge that they come up against daily.  My T advised me that I can’t be the problem solver. For many of us here, that’s what we do best-problem solve, so sitting on our hands is next to impossible. Actually, it’s torture for me bc solutions pop right into my head.
I get satisfaction in tackling challenges, marking them off list and moving on. But the reality is my DD and DS always have new challenges that they aren’t equipped to deal with. They truly are special needs desperately trying to live a neuro - typical life. They swim in the ocean, but should be forced to stay in the shallow end. I feel like I’m forced to watch them drown bc they won’t move to shallow end. It’s harrowing. (Sorry I know this is heavy and very depressing)

[wavewatcher]

PeaceMom,
That is so tough having two kids with mental illness. That has to be so hard. I'm sorry; do try to care for yourself. And please don't apologize; that is what we are here for. To support each other in our shared experiences.
Unfortunately there are no day programs here. We live in a fairly remote area; the nearest city with day programs is 150 miles away. Not an easy commute.
DD & H saw her Dr. today. Yesterday I got his cell # from H and even tho DD has not given permission for him to talk to me I texted him. It's been years since I've been able to talk to him. I told him everything that happened re: her recent violence and the Hell we've lived in the last 10 yrs, especially the last 2, to be sure he had the whole story. I also forwarded him a hateful, threatening text she sent me 2hrs later re: my boundaries over not paying her maxed-out credit card. (Her credit score went down). I wanted him to hear the ugly truth and not just her version or H's watered down version. Thankfully, when she tried to tell him it was all good he called her on it, w/o outing me. H confirmed it. Yay! So since she is dual dx (BPD&BP1) and has tried so many other meds he put her on a very low dose of Lithium. We'll keep track of her blood levels and hope for an eventual emotional reprieve of any measure.
LnL,
Thank you for your encouragement and for sharing your timeline. It sounds like you have learned a lot and have good insight about holding boundaries for yourself, even tho you are regularly tested! SD and your H are lucky to have you in their lives as a positive role model. I wish my DD didn't automatically go 0-60 when I try to set boundaries. She always has, since childhood, with few exceptions. I feel like I've tried every way possible to make them palatable but when she doesn't get her way somebody pays. Usually me.
I'm trying to keep my cup full. Since I don't have to pay her rent anymore I've decided to use some of it for my health. Yesterday after work I had an acupuncture session; next week I get a massage. Stay healthy, my mantra.

[PeaceMom]

WW,
Lithium truly is the gold standard for BP and it seems to have the least side effects w/DS. I’ve found that doctors can always listen to me when I give info about a patient even if there is no release on file. They may never respond back, but that doesn’t stop me from giving pertinent info.
I had a medical grade massage recently and it was so very therapeutic. I cried most the time. Sounds like you are quickly making strides toward self care. I’m cheering you on from the sidelines. Oh and watching waves is in my top 5 self care activities!

[wavewatcher]

Thanks PM, the ocean is in my blood and so healing. Unfortunately I am landlocked now and don't get there nearly enough. It would do me a world of good.

It's amazing how much my dd25's mood affects mine. But that seems to be pretty common with BPD moms. I hate to think of it as hyper-vigilance but for me it is, especially with her living here.

Since she was prescribed Lithium she's only taken it once.  When I asked her how she felt on it she said she felt nothing. I'm not sure what she expected having only taken it once but since her voice got that edge I avoided further discussion. Anybody have any advice, thoughts on encouraging medication compliance without inciting verbal violence? I really had my hopes up on this one.

[PeaceMom]

WW,
Dr. Amador’s book “I’m not sick I don’t need help” suggests using the LEAP method. I think it can be helpful with anyone-Listen Empathize Agree Partner.  I’ve used this w/DS when he’s in a BP1 cycle. I’ve said “I hear you saying you don’t believe the meds help. That must feel frustrating bc this is what the doctor is suggesting may bring you some relief. I want to come alongside you and support you in these decisions. Would you agree to try this Med for 5 days then reassess?” This has worked during a few different cycles, but other times it hasn’t worked.
I personally have doubts about the efficacy of many psych meds so I come off as doubtful and fearful when trying to partner w/DS.
This is such a tough situation bc many psych meds have terrible side effects-who the heck would choose to take them? Lithium has been more tolerable for DS. I wish I was more help...

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[wavewatcher]

PM,
You are helpful just by listening and responding to me. 

Thank you for the book and response suggestion. I also found out from H that P started her on Gabapentin. It is not specifically a psychotropic drug but has been successful in some cases as a mood stabilizer. The side effects seem tolerable in that, too. H said he will be on top of her med compliance so I am happy to let go of that one.

I hope you are doing well at this time... WW

[PeaceMom]

WW
Gabapentin was very helpful during than Xanax w/D.
I bought something over the counter called GABACalm (I think it has magnesium too) which I take sometimes during unbearable crises.  I’m glad your H is coming alongside DD and helping with Med schedule. Take care of you!