His codependency, not mine

[AskingWhy]

As you know, my uBPD H has three adult children all around the age of 30.  They are all in the NPD and BPD spectrum.

His S is homeless, and abuses drugs and alcohol.  We don't often know where he is for months at a time, upon which the S shows up and sleeps for several days on the couch, and M gives him several hundreds of dollars in cash, only for the S to disappear again.

Now there is an issue with his older D.  She went to the emergency room four days out of five and was hospitalised for three days.  A doctor told her F and BF she was suffering from severe nausea and vomiting from marijuana usage.   Of course, she denied to her F and the doctor that she was heavily using.  We also found out she had been taking Prozac prescribed by a doctor.  

She recently quit her job as a store manager with plans to attend university for a degree.  She never entered university.  (She had dropped out of college in her early 20s and took a certificate in business management, but no degree.)  Before this she was discharged from the military due to a suicide attempt, then immediately moved in with one of her military training instructors in a romantic R/S. After this R/S broke down, she moved in with her F and me and embarked on a series of "hook ups" and all-nighters with a number of young men who called her at all hours.  She was a regular binge drinker and passed out from drinking.  She would come home well after mid night and you'd hear her vomiting in the bathroom.

This certainly sounds BPD to me.  Like F, like D.  Of course, H immediately stepped in with a codependent offer to pay her hospital bills since she spends most of her time at home now.  She has gone from working part-time and being a keeper for a few families to not working at all.  This will be in the thousands of dollars.  I am sure H will lie to me about the full amount.  His children can do no wrong.  H already has had to bail out an elderly F (likely uNPD) with gambling debts to whom he givens hundreds of dollars at a time.

H is now projecting more rage at me.  First it was his F, and now his D.  We have not been physically intimate for at least two weeks as I do not find a man so enmeshed with his children or raging as romantically appealing.   His X W has wiped her hands clean of this D, saying she is an adult and can take her consequences.  

Last night, H screamed at me when I expressed a concern for his D and he threatened divorce yet again.  To this, I opened the front door and told him to get out.  He changed out of his pyjamas, but he would not leave the house when I told him to get out.  Push/pull/push.  "I hate you; don't leave me."  H went back into the bedroom, changed out of his clothes and went back to sleep in the guest room.

This morning, I found a wet hand towel in the hamper, proof postive in our home that he had been mastOrbating over the night.   BPD men use sex as a tension reliever and not necessarily as an erotic, loving or romantic experience. He has slept in the guest room since last year when our little dog started having severe alergies and waking him up in the night.  (She sleeps in our bedroom.)  H has insomnia due to his BPD and can't fall back asleep easily.

Naturally, I become the verbal and emotional punching bag for what his F, Ds and S do.

Another day, another drama.  I married into a family of seriously sick people.

[Notwendy]

Your H and his family certainly have issues.

I think the impasse for you is his relationship with his children. From reading your posts, your resentment of this is paramount. I don't know what else he brings to the marriage but unless he gives up his involvement with them, you will not be happy with him, nor will  you cut him any slack.

Basically, he has to choose. His kids or you. And unless it is you, you will continue to be angry, resentful and harp on him. Yes, he rages but it seems it's after you go after him for his relationship with his kids.

This is the "hill" you choose to let your marriage die on, and you are standing by it no matter what. There have been several threads asking you if you wish to do anything on your part to improve things but it still comes down to this.

This isn't meant to be harsh, it's honest. This is how you feel. It's his kids or you. Your contempt of him and his children is obvious and you seem to feel OK with showing this to him.

[formflier]

 Your contempt of him and his children is obvious and you seem to feel OK with showing this to him.

Contempt is a very powerful force.  As many of you guys know, I have (or had) an interesting relationship with my in-laws.  The "rules" over there are so odd (and seem to randomly change) and they kinda boil down to "insiders are great" (until they are split black) and outsiders should feel blessed they are being talked to and the "insiders"  really know what the outsiders are thinking and feeling (which is always negative).

Sigh...the good ol days.


Askingwhy,

Much of what your husband does with his kids is "contemptible" (FF made up a word)...guess what, much of what my in laws did was the same.  Even so, expressing contempt for what was "contemptible" didn't help in any way that I can see.  It just inflamed things.

I've largely stepped away from the stuff in that family.  Boundaries!

I have to imagine that the less you "know" about what your hubby and his kids do...the calmer, more relaxed...etc etc that you will be "inside".  

What are the chances that the next time you express contempt to your hubby he will go..."you know...you are right...I'll never do "x" with my kids again?"

Consider your answer to that question, then take some time to examine the reasons you continue to express such contempt?

Could be some interesting insights there...

Best,

FF

[AskingWhy]

Thank you NW and FF.

As knowledge of my SD expands, it's clear his XW was truly uNPD or uBPD.  The children have come about about how their mother was on medication for as long as they can remember, and she would often dysregulate when she was not on them.

Although I feel sorry for them now and their clearly sad childhoods, I cannot forgive them for what they did to me and my marriage to their F in their teens and early 20s when they tried to get their F to divorce me.

As the D, who evidently spent a good time lighting up to get high, has little income (she quit a successful full-time job as a store manager and then went only part-time) and only basic health insurance, the co pays for all those emergency room visits and hospitalisations will be high.  And my H will be right there to pay for them.  I can see the amount in the thousands of dollars.  He has already bought her or given her new cars (3 total) when she had three car accidents in the space of 4 years; in retrospect, those accidents are likely due to the drug use. H told me he has no intention of telling me how much these bills will be, and this is withholding financial information from me.  He already gives hundreds of dollars to his elderly father who has a gambling addiction.  

I have long known my H is a coward and an enabler, and he only shows his set of balls with me, criticising, withholding, then splitting and dysregulating.   He never shows that side to his D and F, only whiny voices of concern and handing out money.   

What a horrible mess I have married into!

[Notwendy]

One thing doesn't make sense to me. Why were you upset when your H was out of town and you found some letter that showed he may have been thinking about divorce? If he's such a mess, wouldn't you be glad for him to leave?

And even if he deserves the anger, he's now in the guest room, and the dog has replaced him in your bedroom. He has no way of getting affection from you, or anyone else unless he cheats- which I guess he hasn't done. So, he consoles himself with a wet towel for lack of anything better. Does he have any hope for anything better than this? If not, why would it be a surprise that he'd want a divorce? How long do you expect him to tolerate this?

I am not sure where your marriage is going AW or what direction you want it to go.

[AskingWhy]

One thing doesn't make sense to me. Why were you upset when your H was out of town and you found some letter that showed he may have been thinking about divorce? If he's such a mess, wouldn't you be glad for him to leave?

NW, like most of us here, we truly want our R/S to work.  We tolerate the most atrocious abuse and we are still here discussing the abuse.

Deep in my heart, I want to be married to a sane man.  One who won't treat his children like spouses and then treat me, his W, like the unwanted stepchild and punching bag.

H is really having a hard time with his cognitive dissonance that his cherished D, almost 30, lied to him about doing drugs. She is barely employed, only working part-time, and must be spending an awful lot of money on the marijuana.  (It is legal in our state and you can buy it like candy.)  I understand you have to do a lot of it to make yourself deathly sick.

H is, again, projecting his anger and upset at his D, his uNPD X W (for cheating on him and divorcing him almost 30 years ago), his uNPD F and the poverty he was raised in.

H is totally in denial about what shaped him into the f*ed-up man he is today.

I won't tolerate the abuse.  This evening, H went off on me in a rage about house cleaing.  As every one is secluded due to the virus, many things are in disarray around the house in an early spring cleaning:  boxes of unwanted items, stored documents, etc.  H is a control freak and it's driving him nuts.  He orders me around and withholds affection, and is totally out of tune to the fact his precious druggie D lied to him.  H had so little control growing up and he's projecting it onto me.  His uBPD F was a loser and now addicted to gambling.  FIL is a widower, having spent nothing on his W in 60 years (no nice vacations, no jewellery, nothing) and spend all his extra money on himself so he could hunt, fish and play golf.  

He raged at me, and brandished a steel cooking pan at me from across the kitchen and I told him if he got any closer I would call the police and he'd spend the night in jail next to drunks, drug addicts and criminals whose least worry was a virus.  He backed off after that.  Borderline rage at his worthless F, cheating X W and druggie D, and homeless S.  I am not accepting this projected rage.

When H is in a rage the last thing he needs is appeasement.  Appeasement never gets anyone anywhere. Strong boundaries work.  

Maybe I am still waiting for the last straw.

[once removed]

Strong boundaries work.  

are these strong boundaries or provocation?

what about your approach has "worked"? you were really upset to find out your husband had considered divorce.

Maybe I am still waiting for the last straw.

maybe. but if so, youre choosing the status quo.

[formflier]

youre choosing the status quo.

AW,

Since we have some extra time due to the virus, I think it could be helpful to have a discussion about your choices.


What do you think?

Best,

FF

[Notwendy]

There's a difference between a boundary and being hurful back at someone.
 
Also, while you believe you have your H all figured out - everytime he gets upset, it's his BPD, it's his messed up family, it's his projected anger at his X- yet the two of you have been married for decades and I doubt he's thiking about his X all the time.

You say you want to stay married, but in your posts, your H is barely human, if at all. You've got him completely analyzed as to what he is thinking and feeling. He's not a man, he's a messed up BPD and so are his kids to you.

Many of us have asked you several times- if you want to be married and stay married- what are YOU doing to help improve your marriage? You don't answer and from your posts, I don't see it. It's about how messed up he is, how messed up his kids are and you aren't going to take it.

Probably the most difficult pwBPD I have known is my mother. I know it isn't the same as a spouse but I have to have boundaries with her. This is not the same as doing and saying things to hurt her back. I decided I need to keep a distance from her for both our sakes. Even as difficult as she is, I don't try to do or say things to hurt her back, to insult her or her family to her face. All that does is cause strife.

My issues with my H were far less, thankfully, but I also had to learn to not say hurtful things to him due to resentment. They did no good. All they did was increase the drama. It also didn't do any good to harp on his shortcomings. I have them too. Since I wanted to stay married, I had to do some work on myself to decrease my part of the drama.

It takes two and you have a part in this. I understand depression makes this harder for you, but it's not going to do the two of you any good to continue to cast the blame for all the issues between the two of you on his relationship with his kids, or his X wife. If you want things to improve, it will also take effort on your part. I say this out of caring and not to focus on you- because it's true for every couple. It always takes two.

[Gemsforeyes]

Hi AW-

Like most of us, I’m sorry you’re having a tough time with the adjustments needed due to the coronavirus crisis.  This is a pretty unreal and tragic situation.  So much suffering and fear.  I wish I had kids here to teach and play with; but I’m tasked with shopping and shipping items to family members throughout the country.   And with my BPDbf now gone, well... I’m very relieved to NOT be dealing with the extreme narc parts of him, aside from periodic texts and I’m not biting on that bait.

With all of the headline news these days, It seems my brain goes into some “overload” place and all of a sudden I need to check out periodically - this takes the form of napping or cleaning or looking for work at really odd hours.

So AW - I saw your response to the post re: how Covid is affecting your life and saw that you stated that you “can barely get out of bed due to depression”.  That’s not good, my friend.  And this is something you’ve spoken of numerous times.  It’s really important you handle this issue - for you.  I want to say a few things... things I realized about myself and my depression BEFORE I broke up with BPDbf.

I began therapy about 18 months ago (just stopped) and was diagnosed with MDD (major depressive disorder) and I am medication resistant.  NOTHING worked.  I also was diagnosed with GAD (generalized anxiety disorder).  I had taken clonazepam for several years for the anxiety.  My anxiety would ratchet up when BPDbf was around, but I got myself down to a quarter pill a day from 2 pills.  Then I got this little machine called an Alpha-Stim, which addresses both anxiety and depression (and my C-PTSD).  Amazing little thing.  I’m now off all pills.

But AW, more than ALL of this... I realized that I could NOT live in reaction to him.  He’s a mess and he’s volatile.  I’m a highly sensitive person, mostly in a good way.  I LOVE to laugh and I crave happiness.  He does not crave happiness.  He thrives on drama, he creates nasty drama... much of which did NOT involve me or “us” at all.  But I had to listen to him drone on and complain endlessly.  And I came to understand that his awful attitudes depressed me terribly.  Those interactions wore me down.  So I started limiting the time of those discussions.  I stopped asking questions during those conversations, so they ended much more quickly.

And my night time reading broadened to more lighthearted and beautiful things.  And I truly decided to regain control of my life.  In a gentle way.  I didn’t need to “strong-arm” in any way, shape or form.  I’m not that way.  This meant making the decision that I wanted him OUT of it.  And NOT being afraid to let him go the next time he RAGED.  I would just let him be his ugly self and let him go...

So my suggestion to you?  AW - first, you CANNOT rely on your H to lift your depression.  We often discuss on these boards how pwBPD rely on external sources for self-soothing, happiness, validation, etc.  And I think I had fallen into that trap myself - because I had a 19-year prior marriage with a man who relied on me for EVERYTHING and then here I was again with BPDbf.  I woke up because I had become so so sad and empty and worn out in this thing with him.  I didn’t want to live feeling like this, because I felt that I was choking.  There was no life being afraid to ask any question... to breathe wrong.  And his NARC traits had become SO blindingly apparent that my attraction to him dissolved (after 6.5 years).

My friend, I believe that every time you pull your H’s past, his daughters’ pasts, his son’s past behavior, his exW’s abandonment, his gambling father, your H’s deceased mother and lack of gifts - you are making things worse for YOURSELF in today’s moment. 

You are reminding your H of his “failures”;  throwing pain in his face.  And basically telling him he comes from “loser” parents, he married a cheating whore and no wonder his kids are suicidal drug addicts who will never be worthy of anything and don’t deserve a red cent of help, attention or their father’s Love.  AND now he also has “loser” grandchildren as well.  Why?  Why do this?  This my friend is black and white thinking.

You don’t have to feel this way.  You CAN be happier.  Either IN your marriage or outside of it.

It really DOES seem that you have a LOT more control over how things can progress for you than you realize.

Please think about this, AW.  Please talk about this?

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes 

[AskingWhy]

Thank, Gems, for the long and thoughtful reply.

I have a T now and I think I have to detach emotionally altogether.  The situation with the grandchildren will only backfire in my face as H usually "shoots the messenger."

Detaching is difficult now because I am stuck with all day due to isolation.  He follows to me to make sure I am "working," and being useful in his NPD manifestation.  This will be difficult. 

I will keep everyone posted.  Thank you again for your kindness.