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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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Author Topic: Husband's Ex is diagnosed BPD  (Read 734 times)
mpacific

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« on: March 10, 2020, 03:06:22 PM »

It is wearing on us and we typically work together as a team however after a year long trial and pending judicial decision it is just wearing us and well me down.  I'm trying to do the right things by my bonus daughter (5 years old) but with her mom coaching her on things and she lies to make her mom happy it's so exhausting.  This is not just my opinion, her therapist also stated she knew kiddo was fibbing and she's so close to getting her to tell who but will take more time.

How do we function for the next 13+  years! From my reading it won't get better because she doesn't think she has a problem - even though a court ordered psych eval says otherwise.
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worriedStepmom
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« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2020, 04:13:52 PM »

Hi, welcome to BPDFamily.

There are a lot of us who are have bonus kids with u/dBPDmoms.  It is EXHAUSTING.  We are here for you.

First, some questions to help us better understand your situation.  How long have you and H been married?  What kinds of things is SD5 being coached on?  What kind of custody schedule does your H have right now, and what's he hoping for with this custody agreement?

My SD is 12 now; H and I married when she was 5.  For a long time it was mostly okay, and then it wasn't ... and then it was hellacious ... and now it is better.  We now have primary custody; uBPDmom has no overnights and sees SD ~45 days/year.  We've also set really strong boundaries, which helps to keep a lot of the craziness at arm's length.

It's great that your SD has a therapist to help her deal with all of this.  What about you?  I have a therapist for me, to help me deal with the gaslighting and the anxiety of dealing with uBPDmom.  It wears on a person when someone is constantly telling everyone you are stealing her kid/a terrible person, even when you know it isn't true.  What are you doing for self-care so you can keep your equilibrium?

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mpacific

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« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2020, 04:30:23 PM »

Thank you for responding! I'm sorry I'm not great with the quotes...we were just married last month. Our entire relationship has been false CPS reports against him (physical abuse), his mom (sexual abuse) and then she tried to put my name down in discovery of hurting bonus girl.

Bonus girlie is coached on
Being told she can't call me mom - Told therapist I told her she has to (never have ever said that to her nor would Iand Therapist told us she knew she was lying)

Coached on who her family is (me and my daughters are not her family, his parents are not her family)

Coached on bad things with dad ie: when we drive by his old elementary school (catholic) she told us her  mom said "bad people go there" which is his family.

Coached that it's not safe at dads.  We drive up and she tells us her mom said she can go to neighbors if she doesn't feel safe.  She loves her dad and never has any worry with us.

Coached on the above abuse with her grandma...all reports are unfounded. I'm worried about too many details but it's very clear in the video recording of coaching when a key word is said completely changes story after 28 minutes stating noone has ever touched her.

We currently have 50/50 in legal proceeding for legal custody. Ex went for physical and legal but lost to physical on first day.  We are trying to make exchanges happen at school so we don't have to actually see her. (recommended by all therapists) We are requesting legal custody since she exposes girlie to so many unnecessary mental and physical examinations and very concerning exams. She wants her in all sorts of therapies that are actually damaging to a child if they don't suffer from trauma. Bonus girlie is in art/play therapy - thankfully the therapist finally is seeing what her mom is doing - kiddo is totally fine on our therapy weeks but there's always some "issue" when she takes her. Her mom has two therapists and I just started going. My background is social services so I always felt like I should know better how to handle her but it's classic, sucks me in being nice I think everything is going to be great and change for the better and then suddenly there's a court filing stating I can't be at any school or medical appt's.  (which she lost) My therapist used the exact same term of her gaslighting me!

I hate the thought of her not having time with her Mom but as we continue to document everything and the data points from school all show behavior issues on mom days and none on ours. Legit...none. It's just so telling and how long do we ride that out before taking more action. Sadly we just paid 22K for the last trial (her boyfriend helped pay 46K of her 80k trial debt) and we'd do anything for kiddo so I shouldn't throw money in there but we have to have a strong case before we do anything further.  Just hope it doesn't hurt her too much in the interim.
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Panda39
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« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2020, 05:04:15 PM »

mpacific,

Welcome  Welcome new member (click to insert in post) I've been there too.  

My partner's daughter's where 11 & 15 when I came on the scene about 10 years ago.  My partner was separated and going through his divorce.  He too experienced Parental Alienation.  His daughters went through his things, read his text messages, and even reported to their mom what he had in his refrigerator.  Who knew Raspberry Sorbet is abusive!  He also had false allegations of abuse.

It's really hard to keep balance when you feel like you are under attack all the time. My advice is try and take some time away from it with your husband.  Keep that partnership strong.  Take breaks on your own too...self care is really important...see your girlfriends, do your hobbies, eat well and exercise (I love walks good for the mind and body).

I also want to share some books that you might find helpful...

Stop Walking on Eggshells: Taking Your Life Back When Someone You Care About Has Borderline Personality Disorder by Paul Mason (Author), Randi Kreger  (Author)

Divorce Poison: How to Protect Your Family from Bad-mouthing and Brainwashing by Richard A. Warshak

Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline Or Narcissistic Personality Disorder Book by Bill Eddy and Randi Kreger

You might also want to check out YouTube videos by Dr. Craig Childress he's an expert on Parental Alienation.

Hang in there and keep hanging around here, this site and it's members have really helped me in terms of support, information, tools and just a place to vent when things get rough.  

I also want to say that things can get better, but it will likely take some time.  My partner started out as an every other weekend dad (plus Wed night dinner) during the separation, he was able to prove neglect and when the divorce was final he received custody M-F and 1 weekend a month along with Medical, Dental and Education decision-making.  Mom received 3 weekends a month Vision, Gynecological & Psych (I'm sure the judge figured the girl's Therapist would figure out who the problem is) decision-making.  2015-2016 mom did some ridiculous stuff regarding their daughters and both girls voted with their feet to move in with dad full-time and have lived with him ever since.  D23 is no contact with her mother and D19 is low contact.

Hang in there,
Panda39
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ForeverDad
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« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2020, 08:38:07 PM »

How do we function for the next 13+  years! From my reading it won't get better because she doesn't think she has a problem - even though a court ordered psych eval says otherwise.

The ex won't get better, well, unless she really wants to, but frankly the odds are against that.  But — and this is key — over time things will get better overall.  Yes, the ex will continue obstructing, delaying, creating chaos and being a real royal pain in the a$$.  As is often remarked here, The past predicts the future.  The difference is that the professionals are getting a sense of what they're up against and you two are educating yourselves with what you need for your task at hand.  They're able to discern that this is not two parents both bickering, one is causing problems and the other is seeking and proposing solutions.  That is the stance your partner needs to present every time he's in court, that he is proposing practical solutions.  We here in peer support, though remote, have an extensive history dealing with disordered spouses, inadequate lawyers, befuddled counselors and sometimes oblivious courts.  You'll get a variety of time-tested strategies and ideas here, what generally works versus what generally doesn't work.  Between proactive lawyers, insightful counselors and resourceful peer support, you'll have enough information to choose how to proceed and take the "least bad" paths forward.

In short, though right now she is making herself a scary fearsome dog, in time she will become more and more like a barking toothless hound behind a big fence.
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worriedStepmom
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« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2020, 09:03:36 PM »

Congratulations on your marriage!

You and your husband sound like you are doing the right things.  Babygirl is in therapy, you are in therapy, you are documenting the issues, he is fighting for what's best for her, and you are supporting him.

How do you and H handle some of those comments that SD parrots?

Have y'all had a talk with her about the two types of family - blood relatives vs the larger group of people who love you and are always there for you?  The definition of 'family' at our house is pretty loose, and we talk about that a lot.  

SD and I also agreed together on the definition of a stepparent.  I'm not her mom.  I am a person who loves her lots, and I am lucky enough to get to help her daddy take care of her when she's with us.  She LOVED this, and repeated it to everyone for a while.  ...Except now, 7 years later, I *am* her mom.  I had a lot of guilt over that, and the lovely people here and my therapist have mostly convinced me that this is a good thing, and it isn't my fault.  SD needed a mom, hers was incapable of providing the emotional support, and SD turned to me to fill that role.

I was in your shoes for a long time.  I absolutely did not want to take SD away from her mom, or restrict the time they had together.  We bent over backwards to appease her mom.  It took a lot of years to realize we were protecting mom, and mom's needs, instead of SD.  Unfortunately, your SD's mom will continue to provide evidence of her lack of fitness as a parent.  When you get a strong case (your L can tell you what you need), act.  And in the meantime, you are providing the example that SD needs of what a mom ought to act like.  That's what is going to help her get through the interim.
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livednlearned
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« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2020, 07:16:59 AM »

How do you respond when your step daughter says things that are bananas?

You can create an emotional antidote to mom's parenting pathologies with some carefully worded responses.

People with BPD tend to live an inch off the ground, deep in the weeds. We have the capacity to see the 30,000 foot view and can learn to keep the perspective broad and wide using skills that aren't necessarily intuitive.

It may not seem like it given everything you've been through but there are many promising signs about what you describe.

You and H getting married will be extremely difficult for BPD mom so she may be fighting hardest now. Sharing her D with another caring adult is something she doesn't have the emotional capacity to handle well, and that won't necessarily change. But you will change and figure stuff out that can make a huge difference in the quality of your lives.

Glad you found the site  Virtual hug (click to insert in post)
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mpacific

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« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2020, 09:01:08 AM »

Wow! You all, I can't thank you enough for your time, wise words and making me think further.

I'm hopeful putting the things in place will help us be stronger for our marriage and for little miss. 

When she makes these blatant statements we try to put in kid terms and have her think with us ie:  what it means to be family. We have several books on families and we pick those for storytime at night too. But we really just let her lead the conversation when we ask so what does being a family mean to you and she will say people that love and take care of me and we say Right! Grandma and Grandpa love you, Dad loves you, Mom's boyfriend loves you (we use names but for purposes of this forum staying vague), Mom loves you etc. We go through the whole list and she will say she's so loved/everyone loves me and giggles.

Or like the church/school we go through the list of people she knows that go there and we ask are those good people and she says of course. And we say Daddy went to school there and he's awesome and she giggles with that (she adores him) and we say see it's not a bad place or bad people. 

Bigger things like the lying...the therapist wants us to talk to her about lying which we haven't done because I honestly have been wavering in wearing a body camera when I'm around her due to the constant accusations. I hope that doesn't sound crazy but it's where I am with the constant court filings and accusations.

To : worriedStepmom I completely understand re: the Mom commentary.  While I disagree that birthing a child makes one a Mom, I never want to take the place of her Mom and have told her Mom as much. That her girlie will love her fiercely because she is her Mom.  But all things that Moms do...I do with her as I did my own two (they are 21 and 18) so I feel conflicted with it being made a big deal out of.  Okay fine she said she wants to call me Mom but does she...no. 98% of the time she calls me by my first name and that's totally fine with me. But if she wants to call me Mom I don't want her to feel bad about that either. 

To: Panda39, thank you for the book recommendations and I'm so sorry the girls went through all of that with their Mom. At the end of the day they want their parents to do the right thing. 

To:  ForeverDad thank you so much for driving that point home re: court. Everything is documented in email and it's always written in a reasonable pleasant how can we work together approach.  I can't wait until she's a toothless hound haha, my stomach gets in knots anytime we have to be around her anymore. 

To:  livednlearned yes us getting married I can tell sent her over her edge a bit, she was emailing every day we were out of town for our wedding and demanding facetime with girlie (when she never facetimes her during the week and the wedding was during our normal parenting time) I could be reading into things but her emails came through at the most inappropriate times too ie: when we had rehearsal dinner, wedding night, etc. He had already emailed the 2nd day and said all emails will be responded to upon return. 

Can I ask does anyone here have any sort of communication with the persons ex that's BPD? I'm sorry I'm a bit all over the place with responses, I am just soaking it in and finally feeling like I can breathe because I just need the tools to handle this and that it will get better (in different ways but I can do this) it was feeling like I was drowning a bit with each accusation, court appearance even though we win, is it really a win?
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Panda39
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« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2020, 11:42:45 AM »

I chose not to have direct contact with my partner's ex, but did help my partner by listening, supporting, bouncing ideas, and distracting.  But also struggled with becoming overwhelmed, with anger (toxic) and with burn out.  My anger in particular made it a much better idea for me to not be around his uBPDxw (undiagnosed BPD ex-wife).  

It wasn't until I arrived here and with the help of the folks here I was able to let go of the anger.  I'm at a place now where I actually feel compassion for his ex...don't trust her...but have compassion for her particularly as a mother, it's sad that she is unable to have good relationships with her daughters and they with her.

Do you have direct contact with your husband's ex or does all communication go through your husband?  How do you communicate with her when you do?  In person, phone, text or email?  You might consider email communication only.  It slows down the communication...you can think about your response instead of responding with a knee jerk reaction.  You can also decide not to respond if the email is mpacific bashing for example, just don't respond.  Only respond to things related to your SD (stepdaughter).  Email is also a good way to document the types of behaviors you are experiencing from the ex. if you need to go to court.

As an example of how communicating via email can help...

In the early days of my partner's separation his younger daughter had a toothache.  My partner had visitation with the kids every other weekend  and dinner Wed nights.  Mom had the girls the rest of the time.  Mom set up dentist appointments and missed them and rescheduled them and decided she wanted to try a different dentist and scheduled appointments and missed them.  My partner offered multiple times to take his daughter to the dentist...mom refused. This literally went on for 3 months...their daughter had a toothache for 3 months.  Finally my partner found a dentist that was open on the weekend and just took her in and got it fixed.  He had email records of all communication regarding this situation and used it in court and he ended up with Dental decision-making.

My partner's ex also accused him of yelling at her in front of the kids.  He responded how could I have done that when the conversation was had over email?  There was a situation where her feelings = facts (in her mind).

When communicating via email try and keep BIFF (Brief, Informative, Friendly, Firm) In other words keep it short and sweet.
More on BIFF... https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=134124.0

Panda39
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worriedStepmom
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« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2020, 11:56:32 AM »

I blocked SD's mom completely from my phone last year.  Exchanges happen at a neutral location, and I have told her I will call the police if she comes unannounced to my home anymore.  H only communicates with her through a parenting app (TalkingParents).  Ex is blocked on his phone, too.

We didn't have to deal with the kinds of allegations that you do, and H's ex is terrified of the court system so we can negotiate rather than have a trial. It was still really stressful, and the only way out was to set incredibly strong boundaries to mitigate exposure to the bad behaviors.

This is a marathon, and it may take years to resolve it all.  She will continue to show her true colors, and H will continue to fight to protect SD from emotional and physical harm, and the courts will (eventually) recognize what is going on.

It is very important that any legal orders specify consequences if the document isn't followed or if the bad behavior continues.  Because it will continue. 
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mpacific

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« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2020, 01:08:01 PM »

Panda39: Thank you for that link, we do keep everything in email communication.  We have a joint email account now which she despises and will now say "let's schedule a time to discuss" he wants no communication with her except via email. We tried to have her over for a school discussion and when we didn't just do what she wanted or agreed she got up and left. Court proceedings he requested Family Wizard so hopefully that gets approved too and we don't have to see her name popup in email.  The reasoning behind the joint email is for all things for SD.  School, IEP, Therapy, EX. He would forward things or copy me on them or when it's time for trial we sit and dig and so we decided to create a joint email for everything involved with SD so we can label and categorize easier.  They had mediation for SD therapy at one point and his EX refused to be in the room with him, he said he was fine doing a joint meeting (even though he knew they wouldn't agree - EX was pushing trauma therapy on a thrown out CPS report and H was protecting SD to not go through that)  My whole point is she always does this push and pull - can't be in same room and now wants to sit and discuss.   For his sanity he prefers email communications and when it's in writing she can't dispute she didn't say something.   Editing to say he always responds back, not me. We talk about it but it's always from him and he edits things I'd wish he'd say Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

For the most part she refuses to address me, she'll suck me in and ask my opinion and "play nice" then she'll send emails that I'm not allowed at school appts.  So H says you can hold your own and we'll have ours with teachers - she doesn't follow through with that because I am sure it will eat her up having us with teachers and not knowing what we are discussing (our only goal is that SD is set up for success).  H wants me at school meetings - mostly I've raised two kids, my background is in what she's dealing with and he needs the support around her.  But other than that I don't have to see her. During pickup he handles -but hopefully we'll have transitions at school vs. at homes. My therapist said both he and I need to stay out of the line of sight of her. It's better to not even let her try to suck us into anything.  

The only other contact I had was when she emailed H things about me, I'll admit I had enough and I emailed her back and suggested we sit down for the benefit of SD so she can see we all work together but I was not going to allow her to escalate SD's lies.  I truly believe she lies to keep her mom happy, she's a very smart young lady.  My email to meet and work together was also before of knew her diagnosis; BPD and HPD, Narcassism etc. I get it now it was a lost cause.  I am so sorry for that sweet girlie that had to be in pain. Just unfathomable how people behave!

worriedStepmom: So I might have tried to catch up on your scenario. Wow is all I can say, I don't know how you made it through.  I struggle with the minimal I've dealt within comparison and sometimes I just want to run away!  I laughed in court, I didn't mean to but I couldn't help it when the EX testified on court that H can't work together on anything and has to do everything in court.  Literally have emails from her that said "I'll let the courts decide" on things like working together to find a play therapist.  He as been the defendant every time, every emergency hearing she is the one filing.  He literally has only had 6 months without being involved in some sort of litigation because of her false claims. I wish we could work on negotiations. We can't even have the kindergarten discussion because they'll both disagree and it will end up back in court. I pray he gets legal custody and it's a moot point.  

I believe it was your thread that I read that consequences were input and I wish we had thought of that or known to do that prior.  The EX isn't quite as severe but I can see it going that way if she isn't stopped and at the cost of the daughter she says she's fighting so hard to protect and keep safe.  sigh.   I believe his parents will be suing her for defamation of character as she still claiming the abuse even though CPS, law enforcement and courts have all ruled it was not valid.  She's always right and every other professional is wrong.  
« Last Edit: March 11, 2020, 01:13:26 PM by mpacific » Logged
livednlearned
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« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2020, 02:15:15 PM »

does anyone here have any sort of communication with the persons ex that's BPD?

The smaller the target, the harder to hit  Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post)

What would you consider ideal? Given the relationship with your H, of course.
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« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2020, 02:34:14 PM »

I have zero interaction/correspondence with H's exBPD (but my situation is different from most since SS is the product of an affair).  I am the cause of everything bad that has ever happened to her so there is no chance we could ever have a civil conversation regarding SS.  She refuses to even admit SS and I have any sort of relationship.  I think in her mind, SS and I don't interact at all when he's with me 50% of the time. 

H interacts more than he should with BPD and gets caught up in her crap. It's a consistent issue his T and I bring up.  H says she always starts with the pretense of it being about SS and then she somehow spins her web and he gets sucked in.  H still texts over email or the parenting app because he has to learn to live with the discomfort and he can't seem to do that yet. 

I know BPD does parental alienation for me, not H.  She also instructs SS to lie quite a bit.  When he does, I call him out on it and continue to explain to him about lying and how it's not good and if any adult tells him to lie, he shouldn't and should put the adult in time out (that's what he understands happens when you do something you aren't supposed to). 

It's a tough spot to be in a step when dealing with BPD's.  I don't want to take his mom's place, but it's also so hard because she's so toxic for him and he's suffering for it.  He begs to live with us full time because I'm sure it's so stressful being in that environment where a 4 year old has to walk on eggshells and comfort a parent.  Out of the blue, a couple of weeks ago, he brought up how he and BPD had to hide in the bathroom when the police came looking for him at his grandparent's house (back in the fall when BPD took him and disappeared and H went to the police and had an emergency order to take him) and he was told to stay completely quiet while his grandmother told the police they weren't there.  The fact that these sort of events come to him at random times shows the trauma he has to endure on a regular basis.  It's so sad. 
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Panda39
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« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2020, 03:06:38 PM »

 
Excerpt
I truly believe she lies to keep her mom happy...

I always believed this about my partner's daughter's too back in the day.  Their BPDmom's love was always conditional.  They knew their dad would love them no matter what.

Panda39
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mpacific

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« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2020, 08:49:16 PM »

The smaller the target, the harder to hit  Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post)

What would you consider ideal? Given the relationship with your H, of course.

I guess everyone work together for SD sake.  We don't have to be besties but it would be nice if we could all get along. I know that's not a reality now though - I guess I've used my ex's and I's relationship to gauge things and we get on fine, our kids see us chat, we hosted birthday parties with their friends and both sides of our families, he would come over in the morning to do Christmas, leave then he'd take the girls to his family for dinner. We've never had to adhere to the PP, we just did what was best for our girls.  I see how much it makes my girls happy and I want the same for SD.  So navigating this insanely tense life with her is just sometimes too much and why I had to get to a therapist to learn to deal.
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« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2020, 06:33:52 AM »

I have a similar great coparenting relationship with my ex.

Now that you know that is never going to work with your H's ex...what would be your realistic goal for that relationship?
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« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2020, 07:40:39 AM »

When you're with H, how much of the time would you estimate the conversation is about BPDx?
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mpacific

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« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2020, 08:52:50 AM »

When you're with H, how much of the time would you estimate the conversation is about BPDx?

It's not part of our everyday - during trial or investigations it weighed heavy and it would be a passing comment of wish she'd stop, will it stop, what can we do. We go days without her being brought up. Every time we pickup or she picks up I lose him a bit in frustration and he stays stuck in the "hate her" mode. But we don't converse about her unless necessary anymore. I used to ask a lot of questions and my therapist said to me to be prepared for the answers of the questions I ask. Now I don't ask so much and we've been together long enough I don't need to, she's shown who she is.

what would be your realistic goal for that relationship? - I honestly don't know and partly why I started therapy. I don't honestly know how to navigate this.  My goal completely is SD is not stuck in any middle and she is happy, healthy young lady. If that means I have to excuse myself from events I'm prepared for that (even though H does not want that) but at the end of the day it's really about her isn't it? And if it helps my marriage last to H with less conflict, frustrations with the EX etc sign me up! I suppose I see more of parallel parenting vs. co parenting.  Cordial at events we all have to be at for SD but never to really have to interact with the EX I guess.  But she doesn't respect that now, she tries to pretend friends and all friendly and then boom.  So if we set boundaries it might be better?

Grady - I went back and read some of yours too, I would have been out of my mind if SD was missing, couldn't locate and sorry I was frustrated with/for your H.  I found myself rooting for him to be stronger against her. I am so thankful my H doesn't get sucked in. I think the only "good" of the false allegations is it fueled him to never want anything to do with her and see her for what she truly is. I'm on a foster care review board and a CASA, it pained me to read what she's allowed to drag him through. I believe i read someone recommended a GAL and I would highly recommend that.
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« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2020, 10:48:33 AM »

mpacific - yes, I root for H to become stronger.  And he has, but he's not where he needs to be and the process has been painfully slow.  I believe a lot of this has to do with his upbringing and why he's so susceptible to her cons and manipulations.  H is only now beginning to understand how bad his parents were and still are.  I always have had issues with them and kept my distance, but he never got it.  He's slowly understanding it with the help of his therapist although I think there is still a lot of guilt and denial there as well. 

At one point there was discussion regarding a GAL, but because they came to this 50/50 settlement, the discussion ended.  In a year or so when we have to discuss who SS will live with for school (BPD lives an hour away), I think that may come into play again as H is adamant SS lives with us and goes to our schools.  That will be another nasty battle.  H was just talking yesterday about getting SS's therapy set up (he's had trouble getting responses from therapists who take the insurance).  Apparently, BPD said it would be fine for SS to just do therapy when he's with us (court order says he's supposed to go weekly).   
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« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2020, 02:28:01 PM »

I had to come back and give an update. Closing arguments were completed back in February and we just got the ruling. I am in disbelief that we won.

We won...everything.  

Legal custody, 50/50 (we got two extra nights), all transitions are at school/child care, Child Support Reduced, She has to pay portion of our legal fees, communication through OFW, they used our parenting plan and most importantly she can not report any child abuse allegations without first going through trial court.

We have been in this battle for almost 2 years, it's exhausting both mentally, emotionally and financially and I never thought we would be as excited as we are when we got the ruling. We were jumping, screaming, hugging. To see the smile on my husbands face with all the pain he's been through, his daughter has been drug through ...man shew! No words!

We are going to dinner to celebrate and be in this moment however we are sure an appeal will come. The judge would have to consider reevaluating her ruling or that to happen but considering her not being able to see anything other than SD is not "safe" with us I can't imagine she will let up anytime soon.

But for now... we celebrate. Way to go! (click to insert in post)
« Last Edit: May 05, 2020, 02:41:12 PM by mpacific » Logged
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« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2020, 04:04:04 PM »

Congratulations!  That's great news!
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« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2020, 08:44:28 PM »

Wonderful news! Thanks for updating us.
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« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2020, 08:38:13 AM »

...
There are a lot of us who are have bonus kids with u/dBPDmoms.  It is EXHAUSTING.  We are here for you.

...

My SD is 12 now; H and I married when she was 5.  For a long time it was mostly okay, and then it wasn't ... and then it was hellacious ... and now it is better.  ...

I know to take this as a marathon, not a sprint, and not to get complacent, as things can and will fall apart when the BPDparent dysregulates and melts down.

My kids' T said typically they see a period after divorce and separation where things fall into a bit of a routine, and that usually lasts for about 2 years, before something happens; a partner remarries, moves away, gets a new job that dramatically changes their life, etc. 

In your experience, was there anything obvious that would trigger the hellacious times?  Can you give any credence to the "2 years" period of time? 

I'm at about 1 year since my D was finalized, & 1 1/2 years since I moved out. 
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« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2020, 09:53:33 AM »

Pete, for my particular situation, I think the horrendous was tied to SD getting older and wanting more freedom/H allowing her more freedom at our house.  By the end of the horrendous period, mom was in a serious long-distance relationship (they got engaged and then broke up) and that may have also contributed. 
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« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2020, 10:29:21 AM »

My H has been divorced for almost 4 years and of those 4 years they lived in court. I've only experienced the past 2 being with him. She only sees H as being "bad" and anyone around him as "bad" and she has to save SD.  When cops, CPS workers, social workers, therapists and judges have all denied any claim for 4 years you would think she would stop but she hasn't.  Now we have it official she can not file anything without bringing it to trial court. Which keeps SD from insane investigations, intrusive private body checks (which at 4 she refused). Rambling but I wish I knew.  Hopefully that us being triggers is removed by not having to see her at pickups etc will help. I know it will help us.
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« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2020, 10:37:57 AM »

What great news! Wow. Whoever is working on your behalf really pulled it all together. My case ended up going that way slowly and then like yours, a big breakthrough at the end. I'm so happy for you!

we are sure an appeal will come.

My ex filed an appeal, too.

What sucks is that  appellate lawyers tend to charge more, at least where I live.

But the good news, which I learned going through the process, is that the appeals are more about technicalities. It's more about the procedural side of things, and whether there were any gaffs in the proceedings.

Judges are considered the supreme witness in a case, so the appeal is more about whether the supreme witness made any technical mistakes.

One thing that never made sense to me in my 4-year long custody battle is why the judge would seem to chastise me, bend over backwards to flatter my ex, but then rule in what I considered to be my favor. I often had to unwind my head after a hearing.

Apparently one of the things that can cause an appeal is evidence of favoritism. Looking back, I think my judge knew that our case would go to appeal, especially given my ex was a former trial attorney. So he made for damn sure that the transcript of what he said showed zero favoritism, and if anything I was scolded more.

The appeal was thrown out. It's not in the court's interest to be overturning their colleagues' rulings unless something pretty egregious happened. They want a judge's rulings to stand more than that, otherwise people would treat rulings like they didn't matter  Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post)

I feel like the issue with BPD is that the brain forms a story early in life and then the rest of life is looking for facts to fit the story. Whereas for many of us, we are revising and pruning our story based on how the facts seem to change.

It sounds like BPD mom experienced some kind of trauma as a child and she is trying to resolve it through her daughter, and is not able to fully comprehend that D5 is a separate person. Meanwhile, she is traumatizing her daughter through her efforts to protect her.

Now that you've been handed good news from the courts, there will be some other challenges as mom finds loopholes and new ways to fight. Lots of us here have struggled with the step parent role and hopefully we can walk alongside you and share some of the things that worked for us Smiling (click to insert in post)

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« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2020, 01:49:37 AM »

Congratulations on the gatekeeping order.  I too faced an ex who kept making allegations and the court didn't seem concerned about the repeated and increasingly serious claims.  I eventually phrased it that their perspective was that maybe, just maybe, on the 99th allegation there might be some shred of basis. Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post)

Actually, I did lose count of the allegations.  Some were extreme... she tried to get an Amber Alert declared on me when I took my preschooler on vacation with me, her claim was she said No when I gave her advance written notice (not a request) of the dates... when she got upset at the pediatrician's staff for allowing me to schedule a vaccination appointment, the pediatrician "fired" her (technically withdrawal of service) for cursing out his staff, so she had to make me appear worse than her so she triggered a CPS investigation into me supposedly getting angry at my son and beating him on his shins, despite the hospital nurse writing in the records that he was an active boy and his bruises looked like they do with all active boys.

Now that you've been handed good news from the courts, there will be some other challenges as mom finds loopholes and new ways to fight.

So true.  Hopefully by now your order is locked down fairly well.  The standard boilerplate terms like "reasonable telephone contact" and "mutually agreed exchange locations" are invitations for the determined ex to sabotage.  So don't be surprised by the ex re-interpreting the order to suit her demands.
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« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2020, 11:05:04 AM »

...

So true.  Hopefully by now your order is locked down fairly well.  The standard boilerplate terms like "reasonable telephone contact" and "mutually agreed exchange locations" are invitations for the determined ex to sabotage.  So don't be surprised by the ex re-interpreting the order to suit her demands.

The less left up to the pwBPD's discretion, the better. 

"Shall" and "must" are infinitely superior to "may" when describing their obligations. 

And in my experience, taking decisions out of their hands is the best for both parties.  For example:

"Hey I left our past tax returns at the house for you.  Could I please get copies of those? " - Loser Me trying to be "fair"   Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post)  Cursing - won't cause site restrictions at Starbucks (click to insert in post)

"Hi, I went ahead and took our past tax returns.  I left copies for you in an envelop in the mailbox."  - Winner Me looking back in hindsight  Way to go! (click to insert in post)  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #28 on: May 13, 2020, 04:27:54 PM »

I guess we shouldn't be surprised but it is such a huge sucker punch in the gut. They appealed.
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« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2020, 09:21:56 PM »

So sorry to hear about your Neverending Story.

Typically, appeals are limited to legal arguments that the judge didn't rule properly, ignored some arcane legal procedure, etc.  What appeals ignore are attempts to submit additional information.  Most appeals go nowhere.  Even if a party believes the decision was incorrect, judges are generally allowed a certain amount of discretion.

Many lawyers will decline to handle an appeal to a case they're involved in, referring their clients to attorneys who focus on appeal cases.  Yes, at additional expense.
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