Is anyone on this board permanently NC

[Imatter33]

Hi all,

If you are permanently NC how on earth did you come to that decision?

[Deb]

I am.  I have not spoken to my dBPDsister since 1998. It started out as her giving me the silent treatment after I supported her ex for custody of their minor child. As an aside,  every time I see my niece, who is now an adult,  I know I made the right choice. Anyway,  at first I felt horrible. Lots of FOG. Slowly, I  came to see how much better I felt better. I saw how much better my life was.  I was able to see how much chaos my sister had brought to my life. And I knew that unlike other bouts of silent treatment,  I  wouldn't be breaking it.  Previous times,  I had started talking to her,  making apologies that I didn't owe and trying to be sisters again. This took awhile to come to.  I also started having flashbacks of my childhood when she had driven me almost to suicide. I  had worked hard to be healthy and I can't see going back,  even if she did speak to me.  I no longer tolerate bad behavior,  even from family.

[Panda39]

I'm looking from the outside.  My SD23 has been NC with her uBPDmother for the last 5 years.  There is a lot of time for this to change but NC is still her current course.

Her mother sent her to a private college, told her that a "family trust" would cover tuition that financial aid didn't.  Showed her "documentation" of this trust and money because SD was skeptical and had been told by her dad there was no "trust".  SD wanted to go...wanted to believe...so off she went to college. 

At Christmas break she was told to pay the remaining 15k or she was not welcome back.  Mom of course didn't have the money, dad didn't have that kind of money (newly divorced supporting both kids full-time) and SD at 18 was an adult and the responsible party...student...paper signer.  So not only could she not continue school, because she owed the school money they would not release a transcript of her grades and she now owed $15,000.  That's what did it for her, she was done with her mother.

What mother does something like this to their daughter?   

She was embarrassed that she believed the lie, she likely felt bad that her own mother treated her that way, there was/is definitely anger, and there is still that debt to be dealt with.

Are things better? Yes in some ways.  She went to her local State College, lived at home, and completed her Bachelors Degree.  But there is a hole where is mother used to be that she tries to fill with things, occasional alcohol, and control issues around food.  Both her dad and I have encouraged Therapy but she's hasn't walked through the door of anyone's office yet.

As I see it as the outside observer...Panda39

[gotbushels]

Imatter33   

If you are permanently NC how on earth did you come to that decision?

The person with "personality" issues that was in my life was a UexpwBPDgf. I decided to NC basically because:

• I did a lot of research and gathered enough information to be convinced that I didn't want a relationship with her;
• She crossed many important personal limits—the types where you "re-evaluate" the continuity of the relationship;
• I thought the situation over a lot, cataloged what would be useful (helps us nons get a grip on reality), and did what I could do try to manage the situation before I ended the relationship.

I think the method is very similar between an BPDSO and a BPDM. I think you've read Stop Walking on Eggshells. I encourage you to read these:
1. https://www.bpdfamily.com/content/no-contact-right-way-wrong-way
2. https://www.bpdfamily.com/book-reviews/understanding-borderline-mother

The first resource gives information about how to "do" NC.

The second resource gives clear strategies to manage a BPDM.

I do actually use a lot of the lessons from my relationship (with UexpwBPDgf) with difficult people and family members, at least one of which I've a relationship that's close to "NC". I did quite similar testing with that person—and decided that it's to my advantage to NC the person. Since that time about a year+ ago, the quality of my life has improved a lot.

When it comes to those tricky relationships with nuclear family members, something that helps me is to ask:
1. Is this person good for my relationship life?
2. Are there other people that I'd like to spend time with instead?

I think you've got a child, so you could also ask yourself, "Is this person a positive influence on my child?"


Other than that I encourage you and support you. Things you can do on a daily basis are to manage your self-care and spend time in mindfulness.

When you're looking after yourself, it helps to create a positive mental and emotional environment to think things through on an independent basis—then you can make better decisions on your own.

When you're mindful (which involves a lot of observation from my experience), I've noticed I feel calm and detached from situations, that also helps me get in a good head and heart space to make the right decisions for my loved ones and I. You can then use that detached observer role-play to help you get through managing yourself regarding your mother.

Praying helps me a lot personally too.

Enjoy your peace.   

[missing NC]

Hi Imatter33 and all,

I was no contact with my BPD sister for a decade and ended up back in contact when my mother (who is has dementia and is now in the final stages of terminal cancer) moved back to our home state and my sister took her over - changing all her financial and medical documents, isolating her, and smearing me and my brother to her and her caretakers with horrific but very effective lies.  Going no contact was the single best decision of my life.  Putting myself in a position that forced contact (we are now in contact through very expensive attorneys) was the single worst decision of my life. 

[missing NC]

I just realized I did not answer the why question of no contact.  We had been no contact twice before when my sister blew up.  The beginning of the ten year period of no contact was her blowing up again. But unlike previous blowups followed by years-long estrangements followed by resumption of contact, immediately before the last period of NC, she had bragged about the abuses she committed against my brother-in-law and against the birth father of one of her children. So I knew I never wanted to see her again.  It was a good decision. I regret letting my guard down. 

[ProudDad12]

If you are permanently NC how on earth did you come to that decision?

I ask this myself a lot. If it turns out to be permanent, it will be because I couldn't find any other way to break the pattern of FOG and emotional abuse. My family would argue to their dying breaths that the latter is ridiculous and not true, but I guess that's kind of the point of NC being necessary?

[missing NC]

... It started out as her giving me the silent treatment after I supported her ex for custody of their minor child. As an aside,  every time I see my niece, who is now an adult,  I know I made the right choice.

You are braver than I am.  There is not doubt in my mind my niece and nephew would have been exponentially better if their father had gotten custody rather than being driven out of their lives.

[Imatter33]

Hi everyone,

I appreciate your stories and feedback along with the most helpful links I had not seen yet.
From the link on NC
" No contact" is conceptually about disconnecting from a relationship. The name describes, more or less, the key tactic... but NC is not the goal... the goal is for you to disengage yourself from the relationship."

I have just hit my official year point of NC this weekend. It has certaintly brought up some feelings, but I don't feel like I am drowning or can't see through FOG, but I do acknowledge this strange anniversary. 
I am ALWAYS trying to dig deeper into my feelings,needs and desires to uncover why I feel the way I do and it is just that  NC feels so safe. I would be hard pressed to leave this safety of a year to get back on choppy waters in a "slightly more fortified" canoe. 
Seriously,
I can see no benefit to try out LC even though I have many more tools than I used too.

I have not disengaged my feelings for my mother. She has not been in my life physically for a year, but man has she occupied emotional space.

Allowing her back into my life is more work than I want to do.

[Deb]

Missing  NC, I wasn't feeling brave about it at the time.  But my two older nieces told me why it was in the best interests of their sister to support their stepdad. The things they told me broke my heart.  :'(  I knew my sister had been hard on them,  but not how bad it was.  I cried and was afraid.  But ultimarely, I did what was in the youngest one's best interests. 

[Imatter33]

I ask this myself a lot. If it turns out to be permanent, it will be because I couldn't find any other way to break the pattern of FOG and emotional abuse. My family would argue to their dying breaths that the latter is ridiculous and not true, but I guess that's kind of the point of NC being necessary?

ProudDad12,
I keep coming back to your response because it highlights emotional abuse, and also misunderstanding in the family. I feel so far in my NC I have been able to break the pattern. That is exactly why I personally don't see how resuming contact would assist me in healing. To be honest a relationship with my mom would just be for her sake. NC has not been a punishment for her, it's been this opportunity for MY own life to be forefront.

Do I really intend to disrupt the new pattern i've created to only play emotional tug of war with her?
I hope to not offend anyone here, but I do feel like even with skills, this board, and therapy a relationship with a person with BPD is tug of war. The only difference I see now is that I have the capabilities to be stronger than her, and actually "Win" by having boundaries. But what if I don't want to play?
I know there could be a handful of good moments I miss out on if I stay NC permanently . My mother has warmth to her, humor, and good traits. But I certainly believe its a handful of good moments that I get for a lot of work.

I am feeling guilty at being honest in this post.

Lately I have been off of here a little more, reflecting but just living too. Interestingly in not thinking of my situation I happened upon this quote an acquaintance posted on fb.

"It feels good to imagine that the entire dysfunctional family will heal. It feels good to imagine that everyone will overcome the traumas and find their way to an awakened life. I held out for that vision of possibility for many years, largely because of the unhealthily enmeshed nature of trauma. We suffered together, we would rise together, that sort of thing. But it seldom happens this way, both because of the complex nature of ancestral trauma, and because it takes so much energy and imagination to craft a healthier way of being. Most people who have been trapped beneath the rubble of family madness, don’t have the energy, or the faith to get out from under it. It has become who they are. If you are one who got out, you have to stay out. You have to keep going. You have to give yourself permission to shed the paradigm, even if its lonely, even if you feel the temptation to go back and wait on the others. Because the world changes when one gets out. Because you are our best hope for a healthier tomorrow. I know its difficult to get out alone, but you are never truly alone. You are raising the bar for all of us."

--Jeff Brown
Author of Grounded Spirituality

[Bunny]

I was NC with my uBPD mother for 6 years before her death.  She’s been sending me daily crazy stream of consciousness letters and leaving multiple long messages on my voice mail at work.  I had to threaten legal action to get her to stop.  In 2007 she was hit by a car as a pedestrian and was in a coma for a few days and died.  For those who may be wondering I have never regretted being NC up until she died.  She was just so crazy and evil that I did what I had to do to survive.  We had no one to invite to her graveside service besides my bro and his family and me because she’d alienated all friends and family.  Do what you have to do to maintain your sanity is my advice.

[spots]

I am half-NC. My BPD sister would not stop sending my texts every day about my mother's dementia - she has undiagnosed OCD and would send multiple medical links etc about dementia - I would get anxiety every time I got a text from her. I warned her multiple times to stop it and she would for a day or so and then back to it. I blocked her on the phone and after a while unblocked her when she asked. She started doing it again and of course, would text me to start an argument out of the blue about nothing, so I blocked her number again. She emails me every so often when she can't help herself but since I have put this boundary in place she is careful as she knows I will block her on email as well if she misbehaves. It's like dealing with a teenager (she is nearly 50!).

[gotbushels]

I have just hit my official year point of NC this weekend.

Congratulations on getting what you set out to do.

I am ALWAYS trying to dig deeper into my feelings,needs and desires to uncover why I feel the way I do and it is just that  NC feels so safe.

I know a bit of what NC being safe feels like. When I consider being without the relationship I decided to NC on, I feel like I'm not employed to manage someone where I don't get $ or benefits for doing so. Who wants to work a job where there's nothing in it for you?

Next step for your exploration here could be to get the help of a good T. I did this and it's paid off in terms of getting feelings of security- we don't have a lot of friends on the "shore"—a T can help here. My T's helped me get a better grip on what's normal and what isn't—I think that's especially important for a lot of us here. We didn't/don't get a lot of the lessons and benefits that people with "healthier" parents did.

I can see no benefit to try out LC even though I have many more tools than I used too.

Me too.

[ProudDad12]

ProudDad12,
I keep coming back to your response because it highlights emotional abuse, and also misunderstanding in the family. I feel so far in my NC I have been able to break the pattern. That is exactly why I personally don't see how resuming contact would assist me in healing. To be honest a relationship with my mom would just be for her sake. NC has not been a punishment for her, it's been this opportunity for MY own life to be forefront.

Do I really intend to disrupt the new pattern i've created to only play emotional tug of war with her?
I hope to not offend anyone here, but I do feel like even with skills, this board, and therapy a relationship with a person with BPD is tug of war. The only difference I see now is that I have the capabilities to be stronger than her, and actually "Win" by having boundaries. But what if I don't want to play?
I know there could be a handful of good moments I miss out on if I stay NC permanently . My mother has warmth to her, humor, and good traits. But I certainly believe its a handful of good moments that I get for a lot of work.

I am feeling guilty at being honest in this post.

Lately I have been off of here a little more, reflecting but just living too. Interestingly in not thinking of my situation I happened upon this quote an acquaintance posted on fb.

Imatter33, I'm sorry, I somehow missed your response, now that it is over a month later!

Anyway, I completely understand and empathize with what you said. It rings true for me as well. Don't let being honest make you feel guilty, we've spent too much time being led to believe our feelings are something we have to feel guilty over!

Yeah, unfortunately we are missing out on some good moments. There are definitely good sides to our BPD family members and their supporters. I'm struggling knowing I have a baby niece I may never meet. I also feel guilty over the good moments THEY are missing out on on our end. I've been fighting lately to reframe my thinking. To remind myself that I'm allowed to be sad over this, but we are NC for a good reason. And when I feel bad over something they are missing, reminding myself that "I'm not keeping them from it", but "their actions and behaviors are keeping them from it". In the end the emotional improvement of my nuclear family is outweighing those good moments.

I do still struggle. Heck, I was watching Altered Carbon on Netflix today, a seemingly "safe" show from the standpoint of digging up feelings from all this. But even then, a line from the show saying "family is everything" put me in a momentary funk of feeling guilty. But that also feels like the same dynamics so engrained in me from the tug of war you mentioned.

I rambled again. Anyway, like you said, it feels like breaking NC would be more for their benefit than ours. And that alone seems telling, and a reason for continuing NC.

That Jeff Brown is absolutely spot on. Thank you for sharing, it made my day.

[Imatter33]

Imatter33, I'm sorry, I somehow missed your response, now that it is over a month later!

Anyway, I completely understand and empathize with what you said. It rings true for me as well. Don't let being honest make you feel guilty, we've spent too much time being led to believe our feelings are something we have to feel guilty over!

Yes yes and yes. Thank you!

To remind myself that I'm allowed to be sad over this, but we are NC for a good reason. And when I feel bad over something they are missing, reminding myself that "I'm not keeping them from it", but "their actions and behaviors are keeping them from it". In the end the emotional improvement of my nuclear family is outweighing those good moments.

I love how you summarized this point. Your point about nuclear family improvement, well it is something worth continuing current course for right?
 
It does feel good to witness such a difference in my world too. 

I do still struggle. Heck, I was watching Altered Carbon on Netflix today, a seemingly "safe" show from the standpoint of digging up feelings from all this. But even then, a line from the show saying "family is everything" put me in a momentary funk of feeling guilty. But that also feels like the same dynamics so engrained in me from the tug of war you mentioned.

It abounds everywhere in our society. It's not easy being different. Like Mother's Day making me angry vs. swooning in love. I know you understand.

I rambled again. Anyway, like you said, it feels like breaking NC would be more for their benefit than ours. And that alone seems telling, and a reason for continuing NC.

That Jeff Brown is absolutely spot on. Thank you for sharing, it made my day.

I appreciate you.