New to this...

[Ione]

My counselor suggested the book "Stop Walking on Eggshells" because I am having a horrible time with my 34 year-old daughter.  There are so many things in that book that sound like her.  I have been letting her "vent" at me for years and know that she has said terrible things about me in the past to anyone that will listen.  When she was 18, she broke my nose and she keeps bringing that subject up saying I lied to everyone and that she was defending her brother or I tried to push her into the bathtub or some other wild story.  I told her a long time ago that I forgave her and I never bring it up.  I would rather it just go away.   She now calls me a "f-ing narcissist" and her dad "an enabler."  She refuses to let us talk to our grandkids - they are 12 and 13 years old.  She has also texted mine and my husband's entire family in the middle of the night saying a bunch of things that aren't true and even likened our 30 year-old son to a pedophile because he dated someone younger when he was in high school.  She also texted me, my husband and son that "you suck - go kill yourself."  I know I'm just throwing a bunch of stuff out, but trying to give you a background and I really need help.  I don't want to lose the relationship with my grandchildren or my daughter.  She has said so many hurtful things over the years and especially the last three months that my husband loves her, but if he has a relationship with her again it will be distant, which is really hard for me.  I haven't actually talked to her since December.  With everything going on in the world right now, I emailed her and asked if we could talk and she said "no, I want our conversation in writing."  I have to email her because she has blocked my phone number and blocked me on Facebook, which is where I was trying to keep up with her without her knowing.  I just wanted to know that she was okay and if she was posting stuff, even though it was hurtful, she was still okay.  I emailed her today asking if she would mind if I sent something to the kids for Easter.  She emailed back asking what I would send them.  I said the usual, a spring shirt, candy, etc.  She emailed back saying "the kids don't remember a spring shirt but if you want to that's fine.  They don't mind either way."  And then said "regardless of the so called mind manipulation some members in my family seem to think I'm pushing on my kids, they're very well aware of everything and are given options, a choice and a voice.  So if you want to send it, go head.  If not, that's cool too.  I stand with them."  So...I said I'm not trying to manipulate anyone.  I thought I normally got them a shirt, like a t-shirt, and candy.  We want them to know that we love them and are thinking about them.  We love you all! is how I ended the email.  I guess I misunderstood about the manipulation part - I'm used to her saying I'm trying to manipulate and assumed she was talking about me.  Then she said "that first sentence has nothing to do with what I said in the previous email.  So I'm not quite sure what type of point you're trying to make.  Send it over or don't.  We don't care."     I DO NOT KNOW how to talk to her.  I am banging my head against the wall and am feeling lost and frustrated and hurt.  They lived with us a few times between my daughter's husbands and hope the grandkids know we love them, but I'm not sure they do - I can only imagine what she is telling them.  Can anyone out there tell me how I communicate with my daughter?  She's my daughter and I love her, but this is really hard.  I don't want to give up, but wow it hurts.  I try to understand what the book was saying, but I'm not sure how to use the tactics they are saying to use.  Can anyone give me direction?  I try to reach out to her every so often and just say something like hope you're doing okay, we love you...or something like that.  Do I just not try to communicate with her at all?  Do I send the Easter gifts if "we don't care?"  Do the grandkids really not care?  How do I know?  Do I reach out to their dad and ask the next time he has them can we talk to them?  I don't want to cause any more damage than has already been done.  She has a drinking problem and worry about her every day.  Any advice anyone can give me would be appreciated!

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Huat]

Hi there Lone 

I'm glad you found this forum...sounds like you'll fit right in!

We, too, have lived through similar problems with our daughter and our grandchildren.  You bet it hurts!

It is a good thing that you are going to see a counsellor and good that you have read "Stop Walking on Eggshells."  For sure there is so much to wrap one's head around when it comes to dealing with someone who exhibits BPD behaviours.  It is a real art to learn how to navigate through conversations with them...how to work on circumventing outbursts.  It is an art to learn how to look after ourselves...that being so, SO important.

In reading your post it seems to me that you are bending over backwards in trying to keep an open relationship with your daughter and more so with those precious grandchildren.  She is not making it easy for you and possibly never will if she feels pressured.in   

My feeling would be to keep going forward...but with fewer attempts at contact...back off a bit.  When you do reach out, try not to word it so that a response is wanted/needed/expected...try not to build up your hopes that a reply will come.   You have already mentioned to her that you wanted to send Easter gifts to your grandchildren and maybe best to follow through on that. 

You are toying with idea of having contact with your grandchildren when they are visiting with their father.  Hmmmm?  Really think that one out.  Of course in some situations drastic measures have to be taken.  By doing this, though, would it bring on even more animosity...more division between you and your daughter?  It could very well make those children feel uncomfortable.

You are worried that your daughter might be bad-mouthing you to her children.  Sadly, altogether possible.  We know that happened in our case...that being the hardest blow of all.  Not much you can do about that if it is happening. 

Those grandchildren of yours are about to become teenagers.  Even if all was going as smooth as it could be in your family, you would more than likely see/feel changes in them.  So much happens to them in those transition years, physically and emotionally...so much they have to deal with.

Without a doubt, This is a terrible thing that is happening in your family...so, so hurtful for you and your husband...and certainly not a life you wanted for your grandchildren.  I strongly advise you to continue on with counselling, using this forum as additional support.   There is a wealth of material on this website with links to more.  Remember though, it is all trial and error.  What works with one person may not work with the next.  What works one time...may not the next.

Bottom line, though, is it is YOU who will have to be the one who starts to work towards change.   Perhaps too much focus is being put on what is happening with your daughter...shift some of that focus to other things that give you joy in life...gardening, reading, whatever! 

Hope you keep sharing.

Huat

[Ione]

Hi Huat,

Thank you so much for the response!  I really needed to hear the words you shared with me!  I feel like we are the only family going through this, but I know we are not and you sharing you are going through it too, I am so sorry!

Thank you for the advice of backing off.  My husband has been saying that for a while.  I only reached out to make sure she knows we love her, but after telling me, yet again, to "F" off, I am hearing what you're saying and going to really back down.

We did send the Easter gifts, but that was just another mode for her to be ugly saying "the kids don't care and they don't care about you."  Those are really hard words to hear from your child.

I am trying to self-talk my way of thinking and acting and realizing I do matter too and if this were any other person, I would not allow them to speak to me the way she has been. 

Thank you for the support of not contacting their dad.  Sometimes I just think about me and how much I miss them, but truly it's all about them.  I would never want to put them in a position that would make them feel uncomfortable.  I love them so much and with all of this, I just fear their mother is drinking even more than she was and hoping they are okay.  I'm hoping if they are scared they would tell their dad and have to trust in that thought.

Is there any other book that you might suggest I read?  I feel like such a horrible mother and trying to learn more about this and a lot of what I have read deals with couples.

Again, I appreciate you response!
Ione

[Huat]

Hello again Lone

After all this time posting on this website, I still hit glitches.  This is not the first time I have replied to you...all going well...then...POOF!  All disappeared!  Oh...couldn't be me...could it?   >: (

You asked for recommendations on more reading material.  Hmmmm?  I have bounced through Google and I have read so many books.  Some materials spoke to me...others not so much.  By all means do not bring your research to an end.  All of our situations are different...not all information relevant.  Glean from what you read.  Stick with that counsellor until you know your footing.

In reading your posts I don't pick up on any concerns about your ex-son-in-law...the father of your grandchildren.  Those kids are no longer babes and able to verbalize what is happening in their lives.  Seems that they have a relationship with their Dad.  Might be time to let him be the responsible one to step in if obvious problems.  Not to say you close your ears/eyes...but...be Grandmother...the person they see with a welcoming smile on your face...a person they feel they can go to and feel comfort.

I came from a broken home and I was determined that would not be the fate of my children.  Thank God circumstances (luck!) prevented that from happening.  I cried so many tears when my precious grandchildren were subjected to that kind of life...each of them from different fathers...each subjects of custody battles.

You know, Lone, I sometimes read posts of others here who write of abuse, psychotic behaviours, their children in the drug/sex trades.  Some stories are so horrific I wonder how they go on.  Thankfully not my story.  Don't get me wrong, what is happening in our families is not great.  I envisioned sharing a much different future with my daughter and my grandchildren.  Bet you can say the same.

You will continue to be a Mom, a Grandmother...doing the absolute best you can do...but take time to look after...YOU.  If you are not familiar with “The Prayer of Serenity” ...I urge you to look it up.  It is one of my mantras.

Hang in, Lone!  Hope you keep sharing...your experiences...your growth...and then reach out and help others who are here...needing to learn from you.

Huat

[Blueskyday]

Hi, welcome to the forum.
Wow you sound like me. I m sure I have said everything you have said here. You are not alone in this.

I am currently also scratching my head that a world wide Pandemic seems to make not the slightest difference.
I am trying to accept that I will never get the child I knew back.

Her issues surfaced around 10yrs old. She had her period at 11 so I think the horminal shift brought it out she is now 30.

There is no easy way. I am doing everything as I normally would as far as the Grandchild goes. Thats all we can do. Let them know we are here. They know the truth. My 8yr old Grandchild is aware that her Mother has issues. She is clued up and knows she is trapped so she shmooses her. I got most of this info from her non verbally..thats how clued up she is.

There may come a day when you get a call from one of these kids. On no account reaist the urge to do the things you always do or would want to do. They need to know you are there.

[Ione]

Thank you for the support!  I'm thankful that I have a place to share and see how others are handling their situations.  I will certainly keep reading and searching for ways to try to have a relationship with my daughter and grandchildren.  She is keeping them from us and won't let us talk to them and they don't call us.  We used to see them at least once or twice a week and now we haven't seen them since December.  She said they don't care about us and we can go "f" ourselves. 

I kept trying to reach out to my daughter every few days just so she would know that we're still here and still love her.  If she responded, it would be something hateful.  The last time I emailed her (she has blocked me from everything else), was on Easter and wished them all a good day and we loved them.  She told me to "f" off again and said it's funny they weren't invited to the party.  What party?  She didn't respond to the last three emails I sent her before the one on Easter, then said why didn't I check on her when it stormed.  And yet, again, another "f" off and leave us the "f" alone.

She's telling everyone that she was abused growing up.  She won't say how, but one of her points...she was diagnosed with scoliosis when she was in 6th grade.  It got to the point of surgery, but she just made cheerleader in the 9th grade (one of her passions) and we made a deal that when she graduated from high school, she would have the surgery.  She graduated high school, was 18 and refused.  She is now 34 yrs old and in constant pain from her back.  I have said that I wished we would have made her get the surgery when she was young so she wouldn't be going through all of this pain now.  She thinks I was bullying her.  I just felt like a bad parent that we didn't do it sooner and she hurts all the time now.

She had seizures from ages 3 to 5, yet seemed normal until the 9th grade.  We thought her hormones and the teenage years were causing her to be a "teenager," but the older she got, the worse it got.  About 7 years ago we went through something that lasted three months because she got mad at her brother who was also in his 20's at the time, and we wouldn't step in and fix the problem.  She wrote a long email and said they wouldn't never speak to us again. 

So I guess this isn't our first rodeo, but it's been the worst.  I haven't emailed her since April 12th...the last time she told me to leave them the "f" alone. 

In your experiences, do I keep holding silent or do I start trying to reach out again?  My counselor said to give it a while and that she would probably reach out to us.  I'm not sure she will.  I know if she doesn't want to have a relationship it won't happen.  I'm just sad and dumb-founded.  I want our grandkids to know we are there for them, but I don't know what she's been telling them, plus we can't talk to them.  I feel lost and helpless - you're right, I never thought we would be in this situation.

I do hope our grandkids are sharing their feelings with their Dad and I hope he has the gumption to step in if they need it. 

[Huat]

Hi there lone, glad you are still here.

So often reality is hard to face.  At one time or another in my life, I have spent much time and energy waving it off...rather than looking it straight in the eye...dealing with whatever the best I could...then moving on to enjoy other aspects of my life.

Our current period of being estranged from our daughter (who, by the way, in this small community of ours lives just down the street and around the corner from us) is well into its 4th year.   For sure not our first rodeo, either. Who ever would have thought this child of ours would still not soften in the time of a pandemic and especially with us being the age we are?  Same for you, too, lone?

You ask..."...do I keep holding silent or do I start trying to reach out again?"   That is not a question that anyone can/should answer.  While there are similarities in other's stories here, each situation is unique.  Your mother-heart-strings, after some deliberation, are going to tug you one way or another.  Will you be making the right decision or not.  Life!

I have reached out to our daughter a couple of times now...friendly emails with no touching upon what has brought us to this point in time.  As prolific, long and hurtful her emails to me used to be...now absolute silence.   My heart is now telling me to back off.  For how long?  Well, time and circumstances will tell.

I do know, for myself, that if I have said "no" to something...I do not like it if I am badgered to change my mind.  It kind of angers me...for the most part stiffens my back.  Could that be the case with your daughter?

One should really think twice before ever saying to another..."I know how you feel."  Right now though, in relation to how you are feeling about being separated from your grandchildren and wondering/worrying about what is going on in their lives, I will say it to you.  Having those loves-of-our-lives ripped from us was (and is!) one of the worst things that has ever happened.  Thankfully we had no worries of them being in physical danger...I think the same with you?

Of course the "brain-washing" of them is a real concern.  What is being said to them?  How can we defend ourselves if what they are being told is untrue?   We have never bad-mouthed their mother (our daughter)….nor have we asked questions of them.  I cringe at the thought of ever getting into a "he-said-she-said" conversation with them...no winners come from that.  I will fight to hold my head high.  If ever I am asked a question, I hope to tread carefully in the way I answer

Besides having to deal with these troublesome relationships (or NO relationships) we are living through because of our difficult children, the realities of this pandemic already have us on edge.  I am trying to get out each day that I can to walk...to turn the walk into a kind of meditation by seeing the cracks in the pavement...noticing the colours around me...pushing aside the darker thoughts that might have walked out the door with me.

I so urge you, lone, to continue on here.  Now more than ever are people needed to come forward to answer the hurting posts of others.  Never ever feel that by continuing to share your feelings  that others will think you are dragging it out.  This healing of our hearts that we all want/need is a process.   My healing is always aided when I reply to others like I am with you.  It does leave me with a feeling of comradery knowing that I am not alone...not the only mother who is shunned by her child.   Hope you feel the same way.

From one Mom to another...a ((HUG)

Huat

[Ione]

Hi Huat!

I appreciate your words more than you know!  I just feel a little lost and you are right, everyone has a different situation as I am  learning.  We have never been through anything like this and still trying to muddle our way through.  I guess no one has ever been through anything like this...until they have.

Our daughter also lives 5 minutes down the road in the same small town.  I have been afraid we might run into her since I'm  not sure what she'll do.  Our son also lives in the same small town 5 minutes the other direction.  I worry that he will run into her and he is so confused/upset/angry over the situation.  My daughter is also trying to smear him and his wife - the only thing we can think of is that she always called him the favorite.  She was really angry when he was in high school and we made the code to get into the garage his birthday so he would remember it.  She was married and lived in another state at the time, but she got very angry about that and ever since then, he was the favorite.

Trying to move forward is scary.  It's like I'm okay one minute, then the next I have tears, then the next I'm angry.  Then I start thinking about our grandkids and get really sad.  I'm not sure if they are in danger or not.  She has a horrible drinking problem and gets angry very quickly.  They are 12 and 13 years old and right now, going through those teenage years, I'm sure their feelings are all over the place.  I hope that she has restraint with them.  She has said that she listens to them and they have a voice and a choice, that they fight and apologize to each other.  I really hope that's the case.

I can't imagine what it's like into the 4th year of estrangement.  You are such a strong person!  I wish the best for you and your family and I hope during this pandemic, that you are all well!

Thank you for the hug, I really need it! 
Ione