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Author Topic: Long-term relationship recently ended, looking for some perspective  (Read 933 times)
DiscoDave

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« on: April 05, 2020, 01:47:10 PM »

Hi everyone,

I've been reading articles and forum entries from this site for a little while now and it's been inspiring to see the support that exists between members here. My post is mainly concerned about post-break up support but I believe that thread no longer exists.

I guess I'm looking for some cathartic release and perspective following the confusion of a recent break-up and the torrid experience currently being felt in the aftermath of that break-up following a relationship that lasted almost 7 years. It was clear fairly early on in the relationship there were a number of 'red flags' but blinded by love (and a lack in sense of self) I just accepted them with little protestations. In time, the emotional outbursts following disagreements would just get more severe, the intensity of rage, throwing / smashing of objects, collapsing into a heap bawling tears, unleashing volleys of the most intensely cursive language towards me was like something I'd never experienced in my life. She had moved countries to be with me so I generally felt I owed her more in the way of patience since beyond me she literally had no support network so I guess I tolerated more than I would've ordinarily. So I just put things down to cultural differences, her just being more sensitive and difficult than your average person. Whilst she's not been diagnosed wBPD it wasn't until fairly recently that I heard about the condition and began to read up on it, I think it's important to make that distinction. To me, as a layperson she definitely carries some of the classic traits, easily bored, feeling of emptiness (will spend to alleviate), fear of abandonment (certainly in the beginning but eased over time), threats of suicide when in severe distress. I can give examples of behaviour in various situations if that helps?

When I raised with as much compassion as is possible in suggesting someone may have traits of such a condition, she dismissed it out of hand saying she does not have BPD, she instead is an ISTJ on the Myers-Briggs test, the 'Logistician' personality type with an emphasis on 'T' 'Turbulent' sub-type. How you can be a turbulent logical person sounds like a non-sequitur to me, but anyway that's for another debate! Logic, reasoning, the ability to solve ones problems and take responsibility for ones own actions are not the common traits I saw on a regularly basis. Any, I am digressing from the area I could use support, advice, sound boarding for.

She broke up rather conveniently with me the day after we'd just signed a new rental lease on our apartment for another years term, it's not a cheap flat! We sort of tried to rekindle things without any official discussion in doing so, but soon before the covid-19 lockdowns began told me straight-up it was over. We agreed to stay co-habiting for a while until one of us could find alternative accommodation, she decided instead to buy a place of her own! These things naturally take a while to go through (sales process now stalled due to Covid-19) and in the interim whilst living together we agreed on some boundaries, one of which neither of us would start dating again until we were physically separated in our independent accommodation, sounds fair and reasonable to me, don't want to complicate things with jealousy, awkwardness etc.

Didn't take long for that boundary to get crossed!

She was talking to a couple of male friends, one a work colleague. I didn't really mind at first, until with Covid-19 I was then forced to work from home and be around her all day. With the work colleague, I was perplexed at just how much texting was going on, and hiding away in a separate room for hours talking, I could hear through the wall from the room I was working in it sounded quite flirty at times, and they were clearly building very deep connections / rapport. I politely quizzed her about this 'friendship' which she brushed off, saying he had a GF anyway. This carried on until I felt forced to say 'What is really going on here?' she admitted that they were developing feelings beyond friendship, however the guy felt he needed to take steps to distance from that, he was confused / conflicted perhaps. She told the guy I felt uncomfortable about it, they agreed it was perhaps not appropriate at this time given the circumstances, I said thank you for respecting that boundary for the time being. Less than 24 hours, she barges in to say they've started speaking again and they shouldn't feel they have to hide their relationship if it makes me uncomfortable and the problem therein lied with me.

During this time, she also happened to be off work with Covid-19 like symptoms so was self isolating, however to me her symptoms seemed mild. I told her I was going to leave, that I can't be in this situation, it is distracting me from doing my work from home. She told me I couldn't leave because of the lock-down, she was starting to feel worse, and that it would be irresponsible of me to leave, she feared she'd be spreading the virus to my family etc. I packed my things that evening and next morning and left anyway. I do feel an intense amount of guilt for leaving, and I understand given the measures in place to contain the virus perhaps it was irresponsible but for my own sanity I had to leave. It felt kinda cruel that she would start developing deeply close relationships with other men after she broke up with me pretty much under my nose so quickly after calling it off. I felt like I could not put up with that, or am I being unreasonable do you think?

We keep in touch occassionally via phone / text, I genuinely want to know if she is ok. She usually phones me if she feels like she is scared/ worried about, needs something, and I need to make myself available for that and drop whatever else I might be doing. If  however I wanted to talk to her about something, (lately unfortunately its been sad attempts at getting some closure met with frostiness) it has to fit around the time she wants to spend talking to other guys (there's now a third!) and it's crushing that after so many years together, I'm relegated to the guy she only calls upon when needed.

I don't want to inflict upon myself any further unnecessary pain communicating with her as I still love the girl deeply, I'm still clearly wounded by the break-up but I don't want to be taken for granted either.

What would people recommend doing here? Go NC? Have I been unreasonable to move out? I am still paying my share of the rent and bills on the apartment despite me not currently living there, and who knows whether I can return anyway.

I'd be grateful for any advice, perspective or shared experiences. Many thanks.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2020, 01:55:21 PM by DiscoDave » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2020, 02:07:21 AM »

hi DiscoDave, and Welcome

Excerpt
a relationship that lasted almost 7 years

wow. thats a long time. over two times my own relationship.

Excerpt
I felt like I could not put up with that, or am I being unreasonable do you think?

no. the situation sounds like torture.

Excerpt
We keep in touch occassionally via phone / text, I genuinely want to know if she is ok. She usually phones me if she feels like she is scared/ worried about, needs something, and I need to make myself available for that and drop whatever else I might be doing. If  however I wanted to talk to her about something, (lately unfortunately its been sad attempts at getting some closure met with frostiness) it has to fit around the time she wants to spend talking to other guys (there's now a third!) and it's crushing that after so many years together, I'm relegated to the guy she only calls upon when needed.

I don't want to inflict upon myself any further unnecessary pain communicating with her as I still love the girl deeply, I'm still clearly wounded by the break-up but I don't want to be taken for granted either.

What would people recommend doing here? Go NC? Have I been unreasonable to move out? I am still paying my share of the rent and bills on the apartment despite me not currently living there, and who knows whether I can return anyway.

its a rock and a hard place.

it sounds like you have some hope in reconciling the relationship, do i have that right? or i should ask, is it that you are detaching slowly and arent quite ready to make the determination to give up hope?

either way, we can help.

and either way, i think your path looks similar. i wouldnt press for closure, as hard as it is. an ex romantic partner is typically not in a position to give us that. this person, in particular, sounds like she isnt in a position to give you that. pushing harder for us can make us look needy.

again, whichever way you want to go, id change things up. dont be a doormat. dont wait on her calls. i dont mean to be flip or insensitive here, but there are other people that she can rely on for emotional support. just as it may be reasonable that she cant provide you closure, its reasonable that you dont need to cheer her up or take  Cursing - won't cause site restrictions at Starbucks (click to insert in post) when shes anxious. thats not the path to detaching, and its not the path to reconciliation, either.

i wouldnt go NC, just yet, whatever you want to do. no contact is a tool for detaching. if youve given up hope, slowly distance yourself emotionally. detach with grace. but if youre wanting to reconcile, id take a similar approach. give things space. space allows several things. it allows things with the guys shes talking to to stand or fall on their own. it shields you from knowing too much. it gives her the space to do the post mortem on the relationship, grieve it some, and decide if thats really what she wants. gives her some reason to miss you.

and it changes the dynamic. dont be surprised if it causes her to reach out more. and dont, necessarily, take that as a sign that she wants to reconcile. it might mean that, and it might not. primarily it means its an uncomfortable, if necessary shift.

but changing the dynamic is really the best card you can play, whether you want to detach or reconcile. the position youre in now, doesnt sound like the one you want to be in. the rest, you can sort out in the process.

what do you think?

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« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2020, 07:35:49 AM »

Disco.

Sorry this is happening.
You are on the lease.

You are responsible for the lease or you are going to break it.

It's hard to know what to do really.  I feel compassion for you because you are hurting.
I agree w what is being shared with you.
During one recycle, about 7 years ago, I left because it looked like he was having an affair and I wasn't going to just sit there in our home and do nothing...
I paid my share of everything, for 4 months, it turned out he wasn't having an affair, not certain, anyway, after 4 months I was at make or break. I asked to move back in, and it was worked out.  Being out of our house and paying really stung.  Because it was expensive and it made things worse.. 
Since all of this is recent, maybe give yourself some time.  Time does seem to clarify.
It also seems to me that if I cause any chaos, it makes our relationship worse.
I have to find center. 
I have gone in a lot of circles in my 11 year relationship.  We are currently 2 1/2 years separated and talking although recent upset that has things all messed up.
He is living with another woman and tells me it's platonic, although it wasn't before.
It has been platonic for 6 months and she is moving out...
The more I am in this situation the less I know.  It's all very confusing.  I have to find a way to be okay with these core upsets, emotional affairs, real affairs, it's a lot for me on a good day.  There are members of this community that are more agile with all of this, it can be done.
And it's not always in upset mode.

I do know that sharing here, taking care of myself, I had to always keep working, keep at least one friend you can share with, who won't judge harshly,
get rest, good food.  Somehow keep mindset peaceful. 
It's not reasonable to expect you to pay half, if you aren't living there.  I went thru that and it was horrible.
Journaling helped me, I could see things if I just wrote everything out.  And it helped get stuff out.
I am in 12 step for Co dependency and so that helps me. 

There is help, hope, wisdom here.
May you find these and may you be comforted.  One day at a time.
Keep sharing.

amback
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DiscoDave

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« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2020, 03:26:37 PM »

Once removed & Amback, thank you so much for your replies. I began to cry as it felt like a release in that for once I actually felt like someone understood where I as was coming from and my feelings validated. I'm currently having to stay with my father and stepmum as I had nowhere else to go. Talking to them about this situation has been difficult, they just don't seem to get it, their attitude seems either very oldskool or they are just emotionally stunted and can't see all the grey areas.

@once removed. Yes I was hoping to reconcile, a part of me still does, but then when I think really hard and rationally about it I just recall all of the difficulties and general feeling of helplessness within the relationship. When she was loving and attentive it was just the best experience! but amongst the usual melodrama they were just fleeting moments I suppose. I'm still in a position of shock and loss to really think about things with complete clarity right now unfortunately, so I'm not 100% sure what I want. I do know that I miss her (or the good times at least).

I hear what you are saying about neediness. When we last spoke (Sunday evening) and she was clearly agitated that I was taking up her time from speaking with other guys, I could sense myself beginning to plead and weep, she ended the call and I just felt so pathetic and needy. Since then I've not made contact, and neither has she. I just don't see the point now as her attention is diverted. I think what annoys / angers me though is from a matter of principal how she can feel it was ok to launch in to very deep lengthy conversations with other men, build that deep rapport and expect me to stay in the apartment with her? If it had been the other way around, I would have offered to move out a.s.a.p and during the period of co-habiting not engaged with anything remotely seen as 'dating' out of respect for the injured party until I was no longer living there. The flip from constant need and interaction with me to being discarded like a piece of trash after 7 years is something I just can't get my head around, is this normal for people with BPD?

Is it even reasonable for me to suggest she may have BPD? After all, she dismissed it out of hand when I described the symptoms instead saying she is ISTJ on the Myers-Briggs scale of personality types with a tendency towards being 'Turbulent'. Perhaps its me with the issues? I do know that I've come out of this relationship half the person I was before I entered it!

So yeah, changing the dynamic like you say is great advice. Time to start doing things predominantly on my terms.

@Amback, thanks for sharing your experience of paying rent / expenses after you've moved out too. Yes, it really sucks and I feel really hard-done by. Not just emotionally sabotaged but financially too!

I think I've been quite generous to do that since I'm no longer living there, usually I'd pay 70% of all rent / expenses being the higher earner (not by a huge amount since she now has a job which pays more), I had to really battle to get her to meet me at 50/50 now that the situation has changed, she has far more in savings too but she wasn't prepared to dip into them, the expectation was I'd keep paying!

If anyone else thinks she may have BPD or similar please share, I feel awful labelling someone incorrectly if I'm just being overly judgemental.

Last summer her mother died quite suddenly after a short battle with cancer. She went back to her home country to be at her bedside, I joined later on when time allowed and we both witnessed her mother pass and I stayed out there until the funeral. She / We b cried and grieved during those few days but soon after the funeral we returned home and she wanted to get straight back to work and carry on as normal. She hasn't since grieved, hardly spoken about her mother, barely shed a tear, hasn't wished to talk about it, which if I'm honest I've found entirely strange, just emotionally void. She said she's just put it all in a mental 'box' to one side and not think about. Is that healthy?
Instead, her reaction has been to change her physical appearance, seek to buy her own house, end our relationship and seek out new people.

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« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2020, 03:41:34 PM »

You are welcome Disco.

In my experience w the person I am separated with, he was diagnosed by a psychiatrist.  I do not know how to distinguish if someone undiagnosed does indeed have that diagnosis.
Also, even though he did share before we went on our first date, he had this "disorder" bpd... I had no clue what it was and we do not and did not discuss it...

I do not know how far I would get with a conversation like that, especially if he wasn't already diagnosed, and, disabled from it.

  He does have awareness of his diagnosis and we do not talk about it.
It's only years into our relationship--and having trouble- that I found this community.  I wish I had found this site sooner.

There is stigma around the diagnosis and I guess no one wants to admit it unless they are seeking help, is my impression.

You are here, the community welcomes you.  And the disorder is a spectrum.

All of our experiences can help one another.

Take what you like and leave the rest.

sincerely

amback


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« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2020, 01:48:09 AM »

okay.

for starters, you dont have to make up your mind today. i held out for some months before i decided to let go (that was just the path i happened to take, and in my case, it was pretty much the only one). part of me wanted to save things, part of me wanted to let go. to reiterate, the paths themselves dont actually look terribly different. whether you want her back, or want to move on, you ultimately want to reach a point of emotional center, and act accordingly.

Excerpt
I could sense myself beginning to plead and weep, she ended the call and I just felt so pathetic and needy

psychologically speaking, this is easy enough to "recover" from. a little shift will make anyone with any amount of doubt to start to wonder. its human nature to notice it, to feel it, to wonder if the other person is moving on, and to ask ourselves if we are so certain that we want that.

Excerpt
Is it even reasonable for me to suggest she may have BPD?

If anyone else thinks she may have BPD or similar please share, I feel awful labelling someone incorrectly if I'm just being overly judgemental.

you are probably barking up the wrong tree if youre asking if the way to break through to her is to convince her she has bpd. im not sure thats what youre asking, im just saying its not a surprise that she reacted that way.

the very short answer is that most of our loved ones have bpd traits, but would not qualify for a diagnosis. my ex was probably the most difficult person ive ever dealt with, but probably did not have a full blown personality disorder. the catch is that a person who has traits can have significant, substantial traits, and still not qualify for a personality disorder diagnosis. they can even be far more difficult than a person with a diagnosis.

this is a really helpful article on the subject: https://bpdfamily.com/content/what-borderline-personality-disorder

you dont know, and you wont know, and a diagnosis is less important than you think. having said that, the hunch you have is an opportunity that you do not want to underestimate. the lessons, the tools, and the perspective here can help you beyond measure, regardless of how far your loved one is on the spectrum; they can very much inform your game plan if you reconcile. they can also help you if you decide to move on.

im many years out, and i use what i learned here all the time, with everyone.

Excerpt
She hasn't since grieved, hardly spoken about her mother, barely shed a tear, hasn't wished to talk about it, which if I'm honest I've found entirely strange, just emotionally void. She said she's just put it all in a mental 'box' to one side and not think about. Is that healthy?
Instead, her reaction has been to change her physical appearance, seek to buy her own house, end our relationship and seek out new people.

you might call "putting it all in a mental box to one side and not thinking about it" compartmentalization. compartmentalization is something we all do, to varying degrees. is it healthy? its like any other coping mechanism, really. it can serve a healthy purpose (ever needed to put aside ongoing stress and get through an exam, or a day of work?), and it can serve an unhealthy purpose. for example, getting back out there and dating again after a breakup can be returning to normal for some, or it can be pathological for others.

likewise, sudden, or drastic changes can be either/or. some people find solace in symbolic changes after a breakup...maybe a new haircut, a new wardrobe. a reinvention.

bottom line, you know her best. are these extreme changes?
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« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2020, 04:29:00 AM »

D D.
I re read your last post. So much of what I hear is wanting support around this relationship.
I guess the most challenging thing is, being in a relationship w a disordered person, there isn't mutual support, per se.  I have to be the leader.  I have to be strong.  I have to shield myself, the relationship,  from all sorts of relationship-killers.  That's something I never had before.  It's like there is no such thing as glue.   There was glue at the beginning.

I hear about living situation.  It's a core issue, really.  A key segment of success.
I cannot ignore this.  You are going thru----
something----in this key area.  For me it was a crucible---was I going to be able to withstand all of the stressors.
When I returned the first time, we were separated for 4 months, seeing eachother, maybe a couple of times a week.  Again, I was the strong one, I was the one creating momentum.
It's not so much he didn't want us to be together.  It's more, like dealing with a lost person.
 That she is creating things with other men, that is perhaps from being disordered, and lack of focus, lost.
The phrase I cannot get away from, with him, is "love the one you're with."

He can talk to someone he just met, usually female, and just be so friendly, I can see him following anyone home like a lost puppy...
He has no awareness of his own behaviour.  Or consequences.
That's a big issue for us.  It always has been.
He has no boundaries.  He is a grown man with 2 adult children.
I see it with him and his kids.   They have to insert themselves into his life, most of the time.
So you have a person, in your life, and you have to be the leader, you need to be the one who links you guys.  Links thru shared interests, likes, create moments.  You need to make dates.  Especially with disordered persons.
I read, nons need to be dependable.  We need to have the compass.
You cannot be the lost puppy.

If I am aware of these basics, and the pitfalls, I can assess things and I can be empowered.

There is a lot here to take in.  Be strong.
Surprise yourself.
 I didn't ask for approval on moving back in.
When I moved back, after a couple of dates, I just said I will be back this Saturday afternoon. 
I am the leader.   Not the follower.  Not around him.
He is the man.  I get it.

It's just that he is not aware that he is leading.  He does things without regard to consequences.
WITHOUT REGARD FOR CONSEQUENCES.

It's not personal.  It's called.borderline personality disorder.


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Las1604

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« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2020, 08:51:46 AM »


We keep in touch occassionally via phone / text, I genuinely want to know if she is ok. She usually phones me if she feels like she is scared/ worried about, needs something, and I need to make myself available for that and drop whatever else I might be doing. If  however I wanted to talk to her about something, (lately unfortunately its been sad attempts at getting some closure met with frostiness) it has to fit around the time she wants to spend talking to other guys (there's now a third!) and it's crushing that after so many years together, I'm relegated to the guy she only calls upon when needed.

I don't want to inflict upon myself any further unnecessary pain communicating with her as I still love the girl deeply, I'm still clearly wounded by the break-up but I don't want to be taken for granted either.

What would people recommend doing here? Go NC? Have I been unreasonable to move out? I am still paying my share of the rent and bills on the apartment despite me not currently living there, and who knows whether I can return anyway.

I'd be grateful for any advice, perspective or shared experiences. Many thanks.

Welcome Disco Dave. That first paragraph in my excerpt above hit really close to home. My exBPD (diagnosed) has relegated me to calling me up bawling her eyes out of panicking when one of her newer relationships doesn't work out. First the phone calls / texts were every week or so, then every three weeks, and now every six weeks. She's slowly forgetting I even existed or how supportive I was to her while she was in hospital and not working (she didn't work the entire time we dated). Even called me up once to pay for a cab for her (she doesn't have access to her bank account); promised to pay me back, never did.

I think IMO it comes down to little to no respect for you as a person. And I don't say that to be mean. Dating someone with BPD is very hard. If you tolerate the abuse, or tolerate the shenanigans (which I did for the most part), she won't respect you, think you're a loser, and leave you. I did put my foot down for her drinking and smoking habits though. Which leads to my next point. Conversely, if you call her out on certain things, she'll get upset you're not enabling her, and leave you.

It's a lose lose - that's my experience anyways. I wish you all the best in healing. It's a rough road.
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« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2020, 11:09:33 AM »

... I think what annoys / angers me though is from a matter of principal how she can feel it was ok to launch in to very deep lengthy conversations with other men, build that deep rapport and expect me to stay in the apartment with her? ...
Oh boy.  You've got a long way to go... but it's certainly understandable that you should feel upset by this.  Your feelings here are reasonable, hers are not, and they also show a callous disregard for your feelings.  But they are what they are.  And that's all. 

Do what you need to do for yourself, and do not trouble your mind over why or how she could do something like this.  The bottom line is: she's done these things, and does not care. 

I don't mean to sound callous myself, but you really just need to accept this and move on.  You may be able to understand her decision-making process and behavior better by learning about the nature of BPD, but you will only do that by reading and learning for yourself.  You're unlikely - I would wager never - to get a candid explanation from her. 

The flip from constant need and interaction with me to being discarded like a piece of trash after 7 years is something I just can't get my head around, is this normal for people with BPD?
Yes.  It also sounds consistent with her strong emotional mood swings that go back almost as long as you've known her.  Someone who can go from hating you and smashing things one moment, to begging you to stay in another, can also drop you a second later and pick up someone else. 

If you're an earnest person, who is honest about their behavior and feelings, you probably make the mistake of assuming everyone - or at least most people - you meet is like you to some extent, and try to treat them as you would want someone to treat you; but you have to understand that's not the case for persons with BPD (pwBPD). 
Is it even reasonable for me to suggest she may have BPD? ...
No.  When I first reached out to people years ago for help understanding my (now ex- ) wife's behavior, one of the bits of advice I received was to not mention my suspicion she had BPD.  This came from a friend of mine who's a psychiatrist, so I valued it a bit more; but it's also consistent with the advice people give here on this site. 

I think you saw a bit of the reason "why" already: pwBPD are not going to say "WOW, maybe you're right.  I should go get help."  They're going to claim to be fine, suggest you have the problem, deny they have a problem, and maybe even start to attack you publicly by looping mutual friends and family into the issue.  They will spin your words around to make your suggestion sound ridiculous, and undermine your credibility. 

Just keep it to yourself.

If I could offer another couple words of advice for you:

1) make decisions for yourself, and disregard her concerns and complaints.  She has already ignored your concerns and complaints, and will continue to do so. 

2) I can almost guarantee as soon as she loses interest in these new boyfriends, or they lose interest in her, she'll try everything to get you to come back to the relationship with her.  She will do and say whatever she feels she needs to in order to get you back.  If you demand an apology, she will give you one.  If you ask her "Why?" or "How could you do this?" expect her to find a way to blame you

Do not listen to any of it; none of it will be sincere and true.  Make the decision for yourself, of course, but do not rely on any of her assurances or promises.  They'll be violated as soon as she feels secure again in the relationship. 
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« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2020, 11:23:10 AM »

DD
You are getting time tested experience, strength, (and-even-if it doesn't look like it) hope.
I can deal with almost anything,  IF:
I am willing.
What has me be willing.
Can I get a support person, persons to be there, listening, not judging me.
Can I get my well being on a routine, excellent track
Can I remember all of this.

All of this=good things to have as a person, I become stronger, these things help me in all situations.
My shortcomings will become glaring in the crucible called "relationship with disordered person"

Who do I want to be in a given situation.  What is it going to take for me to have the kind of life I want.?
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juju2
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« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2020, 11:30:20 AM »

and one more thing that helps:
make sure I also have in the mix of who I am listening to---someone, more than one, who is successful doing this.   There are people here who are doing this, successfully.

I need to learn what to do, what not to do, and everything in between.
I can learn from someone else.  Successes and failures.
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DiscoDave

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« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2020, 08:30:26 AM »

Thank you to everyone who has posted here, some absolutely golden advice which is a much appreciated tonic for the soul.

@PeteWitsend, don't worry I didn't find your advice 'callous' I appreciate the directness of it, I tend to respond better to that level of honesty rather than having things 'sugar coated'.

In terms of updates, nothing really to report, neither of us have made contact since last weekend. I do feel quite guilty about potentially not reaching out this weekend, with it being Easter and all and her likely to be in our former home alone (though no doubt forging those new relationships online for now). Compounding that guilt is the thought that this Easter weekend we should have been abroad seeing her father together (cancelled due to covid-19 & subsequent break-up), prior to her mother passing away last year we visited them every Easter holiday and I have so many fond memories of those times. I will miss her Dad greatly, he is the most kindest, generous and patient man I've ever known, we had deep mutual respect for each other.
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DiscoDave

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« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2020, 07:49:58 AM »

Hi all, hope you're all having a good Easter break.

Just a quick update on things. We'd not been in touch for a week, I thought this was unusual given she'd contacted me the week prior if she had issues / concerns as she's been laid up with suspected Covid-19. I contacted her primarily to see if she was ok, and for selfish reasons too I guess as I do miss contact. She replied pretty much instantly telling me she was now on anti-biotics following suspected mild case of pnuemonia, that she intends to go back to work on 15th April. I was quite concerned to hear this, that her illness had developed to such an extent, guilty that I had left her when she first came down with symptoms but also kinda gutted that she didn't tell me of this diagnosis, perhaps she doesn't need to reach out anymore.

I called her the following day on Easter Sunday, to see how she was doing and to wish her a Happy Easter regardless of the difficult circumstances, Easter had always been an important time for us to spend with her religious family and despite not being particularly religious myself I have fond memories of the times spent over those holidays. She thanked me for contacting her Dad to wish him a Happy Easter and extended her wishes to my family also (Who she's passionately hated in times of rage!). She sounded very chipper, and upbeat I get the impression she must be getting quite a bit of attention (texts/facebook/online) as I half expected her to be really down being on her own on Easter Sunday and unable to see her family. She said she was going for a walk later that day.

She sent (to my surprise) a series of photos of the walk she went on (a little wooded area near to where we lived where we'd walk together from time to time). Later followed some friendly banter between us, I could sense after a while her attention had been diverted to messaging somebody else on whatsapp so rather than competing for the attention back to me I just left it there. It was a nice little interaction whilst it lasted, reminded me of the easier / sweeter times but it also felt the curtains came down on that window into the past rather abruptly.

I think from now on I won't reach out to see how she is emotionally, but only make contact on more practical things now such as working to get myself off the rental lease and not haemorrhage money on paying rent / bills whilst no longer there. I do worry about that, as it's likely to trigger a negative response and accusations of me being 'unfair'. Though I really do need to protect myself financially from a decision she has ultimately made.
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« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2020, 09:18:44 AM »

Hi DD

So you recently came to this community.

It seems like recently you had your living situation disrupted.

So you are on the lease.  You have entry to the space.  Are you clear about if you want to live there or not.  That's the question.

You can let the situation meander around, up, down.

Fact is, you are responsible for that property.
As such, you can simply say, I am on the lease, I made a big mistake in moving temporarily.

I am returning in x days.  State the date.

It will be great to see you.

((The reason I am saying this is because if you don't fight for your relationship no one will.  No one.)

It's all on you, you made the mistake.
That is my experience.
I made all the mistakes.

It comes with the territory.

Should a big issue arise, you can deal with that as it comes.  Do not borrow trouble.
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« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2020, 09:44:51 AM »

... I do worry about that, as it's likely to trigger a negative response and accusations of me being 'unfair'. Though I really do need to protect myself financially from a decision she has ultimately made.

Yes, you absolutely need to protect yourself financially. 

And to that end, you need to mentally prepare yourself and have the fortitude to ignore the accusations from her of this being "unfair" and get what you need done.

If it helps, I think you should understand that she will have her own story of how you acted anyway, regardless of how much courtesy you extend her.  In my experience, as nothing is ever enough for them, at some point, even if you give her everything she asks for, ruining your own finances in the process, she'll still tell everyone you cheated her, screwed her financially, abandoned her, etc.

Make sure she doesn't have access to any of your credit cards, account numbers, etc. Also make sure none of your mail is still going to the place you shared with her.

Get off the lease as soon as you can; communicate with your landlord directly; don't leave any of the decision making authority to her.  She will use any leverage you allow to make your life a living hell.

During my divorce, any courtesies I extended were taken advantage of.  I am now pretty sure the saying "No good deed goes unpunished" was coined by a guy in a relationship with a pwBPD... 
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« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2020, 09:57:47 AM »

so DD you are getting a lot of information.

We are not supposed to give stay or run advice...

I was giving you my exact experience.
I did exactly as I said.  I am on the lease, etc.

Nothing bad happened.  I think he realized the facts.  If he pushed back, I would be able to say take me off the lease, and the funds would go with me...

Money does talk.  I dislike very much allowing someone to take advantage.  I am a giving person.
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DiscoDave

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« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2020, 03:07:36 PM »

Thanks for responses guys.

@Petewitsend, loving the quote 'no good deed goes unpunished', indeed so! Yes, I shall need to remain steadfast in my approach here. Being sucker-punched is bad enough but to be financially punished as well is just off-limits for me here.

@Amback, yes I'm on the lease, and I know I have a right to go back there, I just don't think it would be appropriate. I left because despite us being separated she made it torture for me spending hours chatting to several guys, I know she is still doing this in my absence (her prerogative) and I frankly don't want to be around the pent-up love bombing which no doubt will result in an explosive release upon the next victim(s) when the Covid-19 lockdown ends. It would be pleasant for me to have to witness.

So it's not really about fighting for my relationship, she's made it very clear where I stand in the order of things. It's now about self-preservation unfortunately and retaining what remains of my self-respect and dignity.

I will not payout on a life-style choice that she has now made. That is fair, she may not see it that way.

Besides, she broke up with me pretty much the next day after we signed the extension on the lease, surely any sensible person who was thinking for a while about ending their relationship would have expressed that intent PRIOR to mutually agreeing to extend the lease.
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« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2020, 03:24:32 PM »

you are within your rights, everything you say.

This thread is the improving area.  am just sharing from the aspect of what I thought you wanted, and I do realize that what is wanted can easily change...
So much of what is happening in my relationship, is about me not caving in, being the leader...
And it can be next to impossible, I am the first to say...

Wish you well on your path. 

you are in a good place reaching out, no matter what kind of assistance you seek, and I get that it changes.  The goalposts keep moving.
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« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2020, 04:06:13 PM »

Following on from what Amback/Juju said about moving back in to your own home that you share and just pretty much declaring it as such, I did just that the other day with some pretty emotive response.

I'm currently staying with some family, but part of me is keen to return back to my apartment as I miss my own space, it's better environment for me to work from home etc but also, it my ex. and I could set healthy boundaries it might not be so bad...wishful thinking perhaps.

I sent a message to the effective of: 'I intend to move back in weekend after next'

She demanded I call her right away, like an obedient dog I did just that.

She unleashed rage, as to why on earth am I moving back in? I thought ok, she's probably stressed about the Covid-19 situation, after some validation of her concerns she'll calm down about. Indeed no, she went on to tell me she met some guy online two weeks ago, they've been chatting via text and phoning pretty much daily ever since and have gotten close and he even lives a 10 minute walk away, however they've yet to meet and person but she would like the apartment free to be able to invite him round!

This was a sucker-punch, I still pay for that apartment and have most of my things still there. It literally felt like by doing so I was spoiling her party.

Her way of compromise;...'well if you do insist on moving back in then at least make yourself scarce from time to time' WTH?

It left me thinking, hmm... this is a person who expects people to treat others with kindness, decency, respect and sensitivity, to be honest and morally upstanding. Is any of that being considered towards my feelings here? I'd say no.

I wouldn't dream of putting her through a situation of bringing new romantic partners to our shared home if we still had to live together temporarily for a while.

The other thing that shocked me was just how head over heels she seems to be after chatting to someone for just 2 weeks online & phone and already considering inviting them round.

The last few weeks of this break-up have felt like being on a constant roller-coaster ride and rather than coming to a gentle stop, I've just suddenly been flung off it.

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« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2020, 12:53:19 PM »

Ok.  So she is not in control of her words.

I have got to be in command of my ears!

So she said a bunch of hurtful stuff.

Reality is this cool guy hasn't even taken the time to see her.

I have to have strong ears, and be a leader.
Not everything he says makes sense to me, is something I am supposed to act on.

I have to be focused.

So she said blahblahblah yes blahblahblahblah to you moving back in!

That's a win.  Yes!  Not in any way you wanted it to be...

Not the way you wanted, air taken out, horrible delivery.
My job is to hear and listen for, the gold nuggets.

I have to put on fresh ears, listening, being strong each time I see him.  It's about managing me.

What am I doing to manage me.

Another thing that helped along the lines of listening, is for me to keep a notebook of our conversations.

So I would write ( if I was you, about me moving in on ...day:  gave news i am moving back on ...day.  She asked I call.  She basically said ok.  A bunch of noise and the result is ok)

I need these notes.  It helps me.  I need a strong EDITOR in my head.

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