Could This be a Result of uBPD Mother Buying Grandson's Love & Respect?

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Could This Be A Result of My uBPD Mother Buying my Son's Love and Replacing Closeness with Money & Gifts?

Background: My ubpd mother has always "bought" love & loyalty and used money and gifts to keep family close, and as an apology for bad behavior & lack of other things she's not capable of giving, especially with children. This has been a theme in our family, even with her father, who I suspect suffered from either NPD or BPD. Maybe she did this due to her severe fear of abandonment, I don't know, but I would greatly appreciate any input/advice. (Some people in our family refused accepting ANY amount of money from my grandfather, because they knew it came with a high price: putting up with his abuse, and not being able to say anything about his bad behavior, because he would come back with: "but I did SO much for you..."

Even though it's better now that she's in her 70s and since she's been on meds, my mother has never been able to show or receive much love from her children & grandchildren - she has always been able to show love to babies & toddlers, but after kids reach a certain age, there's no hugs & kisses, and the closer kids get to adult age, my mom treats them like everyone else in the family, with paranoia, no regard for their feelings, fights with them, accuses them, etc, etc.

Just like with my Grandfather, he was only able to stay "close" to family members because he gave them money & bought them things. It's shallow and obvious, but it works! example: "But he/she has done SO MUCH for us! We HAVE to include/invite/PUT UP WITH him/her!"

When my son was little, my Mom bought him TONS of things, same with my sister's kids, and even before I knew exactly what was wrong with my mom, I was very concerned that she was teaching my son to be materialistic and teaching him that gits & money were "apologies" for bad behavior. But, I thought that I taught my son different/better, up until now, he's in his early 30s. He was never a demanding child, he did not "expect" gifts, and I have always been under the impression that he seen through all of that. And when my son was in his 20s, he even told me that he was aware of the consequences of accepting money from my mom.

I have a 5 yr old grandson now, and my mom (his great grandmother), buys him things constantly too, but it's not as much as she did for my son when he was little, as they don't see each other every day, but at least twice a month. But, my mom is STILL giving lots of money & gifts to my son and his wife, especially now that they have a child, and she is very paranoid that if she does not keep giving them money & things, that they won't allow her to visit as often. (and this is true, even though she does not have fits of rage around them (like she used to with the rest of the family), they allow her to visit more often than they would if she wasn't "giving" so much.

Most people in our family refuse to speak up or defend themselves from my Mom's verbal, physical, and emotional abuse because they feel they "OWE" her, due to all of the money & things she's given them. But even now that she doesn't behave as badly or as often as in the past, she still replaces many things with MONEY & GIFTS.

Current Problem:
For the past 3 years, my son rarely communicates with me, and became very angry whenever I tried to call, text, or email, even when I tried once or twice in a 6 week period. His wife also seemed very agitated when I called her once, and she scolded me for writing a text that was too long. All I wanted to do was to keep in touch since we live 3 hours away and don't get to visit much.

I have never been so devastated & heartbroken in my life. I have cried daily for 7 months, lost 30 lbs, barely sleep, and after all of that, my son told me some things that made these past 7 months seem like fun.

My son cut off communication with me for 7 months without any explanation or info, after I very carefully attempted to offer a suggestion about how to handle an issue with my grandson, and it was not insignificant. I knew my son does not like unsolicited parenting advice, but I could not ignore this, and before I spoke to him, I got advice from my psychologist and a friend who has a psychology degree, much experience, and whose job is family mediation. I spent 2 weeks considering how to approach this, using my critical thinking skills, knowledge, and experience to communicate with him in the best possible way, but he hung up on me before I could even finish explaining.

 (Ever since my grandson was born, I have witnessed almost all of the grandparents and 1 great grandparent (my mom) walk on eggshells around my son & his wife, as they seem to take casual comments during normal conversation as if they are severely abusive criticisms, so we are VERY careful about what we say & do.) I checked the clothes drying at my son's house when he was busy, and he was very angry over that for a year, he assumed that by checking to see if the lint needed changed, that I assumed he wasn't taking care of his household properly! I didn't say a word, and happened to be doing something else 2 feet away from his dryer anyhow.

After 7 months, my son called me to inform me that he PURPOSELY cut off contact without telling me why or giving me any hope that I might see him, his wife, and my grandson again, to GIVE ME A TASTE of how it might feel if it had been PERMANENT, and to make me realize how important being able to have contact with him & my grandson is!

My husband was concerned, because my son did not answer any calls from our numbers, blocked texts & emails, so what if something happened to me and he couldn't reach him? My son said that one reason why he called, was due to the coronavirus pandemic, as he thought my "emotions would be heightened" due to it. He also told me that all I do is criticize him when I visit, but that is not reality, not even close, and I have only visited him several times in the past 2 years, we barely talk when we visit, I play with my grandson mostly.

Then, he told me the most heartbreaking and SADDEST thing I could ever hear. He said, "You're not going to like hearing this, but, YOU ARE NOT CAPABLE OF BEING A GRANDMOTHER, IF I NEEDED HELP FROM YOU." He talked to me like I was a child bully in the principal's office, and scolded me for every mistake I made as a parent.

Being that I was already in an emotional state, (which is not good for this type of conversation), I wanted to show him that I was acknowledging his hurt from the past, I did not deny or downplay it, I listened & accepted how he felt.

But then, he gave me the reason WHY he thought I was "not capable of being a mother or grandmother": because he assumed that my husband and I were "barely scraping by", as in finances. But he assumed that, because a couple of years ago, we did have financial problems, but have recovered - BUT HE DID NOT KNOW THAT, because even before this 7 month incident, he rarely called us, and got mad at me for trying to communicate with him.

MONEY! I asked him how MONEY had anything to do with me being unable to be a real mother or grandmother, and he said that he and his wife "were doing just fine", and that they don't need any help, not from me, not from my mom, and not from his wife's parents. BUT, he said, "IF we did need to count on you as a mother or grandmother, we couldn't."

Again, I did not understand if he was really saying that it was due to MONEY! I gave him examples of how my grandmother was not wealthy, but she gave us better care than our parents did. His reply to that was, "Its different now, that was 40 years ago!" And he mentioned the fact that I am not working a "normal job where I punch a time card." AGAIN, what does THAT have to do with being a real mother/grandmother?

(by the way, my son lives in a very expensive area, but he and his wife do well, they make more than 100k a year, so they're not broke, they have a nice apartment in a very nice area, have food on the table, all of the latest "things", they have 2 brand new vehicles, and they have enough money to pay for a great pre-school, and to pay for swimming & Tae Kwon Do lessons), and do not have much credit card debt.

It got to the point where I quit trying to convince him that I had much to offer, and that I would do anything for them. But he said that regardless of my knowledge and experience in healthcare and mental health, that because I made parenting mistakes, and because my husband and I weren't well off financially, that I could not be a mother or grandmother, and that if he needed me to babysit, that I was not financially able to - "IF" the need arose.

He did not explain, and I wondered if maybe he thought I didn't have enough money to feed my grandson IF I babysat him, or what? And being that I do not work full time at a "typical" job, I have plenty of time to babysit!

This does NOT sound like my son, I can't believe that he believes it takes MONEY to be a "good" mother/grandmother! BUT, it hit me: What has MY mother taught him all of his life? She was HIS grandma, and most everything she did with him as a grandma had to do with SHOPPING, BUYING, GIVING.

I am more heartbroken now than I was before, but my son thinks our problem is worked out, that there's no need for any more talk to work out our issues. I texted him today and asked if we could talk more, and his answer was "only short, sweet emails or texts" were allowed, and "not long-winded ones". That means he is done, does not want to work out issues. 

And guess what got TOTALLY LOST IN ALL OF THIS? The reason why I made that phone call 7 months ago, my concern for my grandsons physical & emotional health got ignored. I am physically & mentally sick over this, and I know that I do not have ANY CHANCE to talk to him about the issue with my grandson. My son allowed his own feelings to get in the way of me offering a suggestion about a healthier way for an issue with my grandson to be handled, which actually would take less effort than what is currently happening, but my son made it VERY CLEAR: he said, "WHY should I listen to any sdvice from you when you made mistakes as a parent?"

I sent him a reply saying that if he only wants short & sweet communication, that it's not fair of him to judge me if he's not interested in learning anything about me, and how my past mistakes do not define me or limit what I have to offer. He did not reply, and has likely blocked me and cut contact again.

[peachtree487]

Could This Be A Result of My uBPD Mother Buying my Son's Love and Replacing Closeness with Money & Gifts?

Background: My ubpd mother has always "bought" love & loyalty and used money and gifts to keep family close, and as an apology for bad behavior & lack of other things she's not capable of giving, especially with children. This has been a theme in our family, even with her father, who I suspect suffered from either NPD or BPD. Maybe she did this due to her severe fear of abandonment, I don't know, but I would greatly appreciate any input/advice. (Some people in our family refused accepting ANY amount of money from my grandfather, because they knew it came with a high price: putting up with his abuse, and not being able to say anything about his bad behavior, because he would come back with: "but I did SO much for you..."

Even though it's better now that she's in her 70s and since she's been on meds, my mother has never been able to show or receive much love from her children & grandchildren - she has always been able to show love to babies & toddlers, but after kids reach a certain age, there's no hugs & kisses, and the closer kids get to adult age, my mom treats them like everyone else in the family, with paranoia, no regard for their feelings, fights with them, accuses them, etc, etc.

Just like with my Grandfather, he was only able to stay "close" to family members because he gave them money & bought them things. It's shallow and obvious, but it works! example: "But he/she has done SO MUCH for us! We HAVE to include/invite/PUT UP WITH him/her!"

When my son was little, my Mom bought him TONS of things, same with my sister's kids, and even before I knew exactly what was wrong with my mom, I was very concerned that she was teaching my son to be materialistic and teaching him that gits & money were "apologies" for bad behavior. But, I thought that I taught my son different/better, up until now, he's in his early 30s. He was never a demanding child, he did not "expect" gifts, and I have always been under the impression that he seen through all of that. And when my son was in his 20s, he even told me that he was aware of the consequences of accepting money from my mom.

I have a 5 yr old grandson now, and my mom (his great grandmother), buys him things constantly too, but it's not as much as she did for my son when he was little, as they don't see each other every day, but at least twice a month. But, my mom is STILL giving lots of money & gifts to my son and his wife, especially now that they have a child, and she is very paranoid that if she does not keep giving them money & things, that they won't allow her to visit as often. (and this is true, even though she does not have fits of rage around them (like she used to with the rest of the family), they allow her to visit more often than they would if she wasn't "giving" so much.

Most people in our family refuse to speak up or defend themselves from my Mom's verbal, physical, and emotional abuse because they feel they "OWE" her, due to all of the money & things she's given them. But even now that she doesn't behave as badly or as often as in the past, she still replaces many things with MONEY & GIFTS.

Current Problem:
For the past 3 years, my son rarely communicates with me, and became very angry whenever I tried to call, text, or email, even when I tried once or twice in a 6 week period. His wife also seemed very agitated when I called her once, and she scolded me for writing a text that was too long. All I wanted to do was to keep in touch since we live 3 hours away and don't get to visit much.

I have never been so devastated & heartbroken in my life. I have cried daily for 7 months, lost 30 lbs, barely sleep, and after all of that, my son told me some things that made these past 7 months seem like fun.

My son cut off communication with me for 7 months without any explanation or info, after I very carefully attempted to offer a suggestion about how to handle an issue with my grandson, and it was not insignificant. I knew my son does not like unsolicited parenting advice, but I could not ignore this, and before I spoke to him, I got advice from my psychologist and a friend who has a psychology degree, much experience, and whose job is family mediation. I spent 2 weeks considering how to approach this, using my critical thinking skills, knowledge, and experience to communicate with him in the best possible way, but he hung up on me before I could even finish explaining.

 (Ever since my grandson was born, I have witnessed almost all of the grandparents and 1 great grandparent (my mom) walk on eggshells around my son & his wife, as they seem to take casual comments during normal conversation as if they are severely abusive criticisms, so we are VERY careful about what we say & do.) I checked the clothes drying at my son's house when he was busy, and he was very angry over that for a year, he assumed that by checking to see if the lint needed changed, that I assumed he wasn't taking care of his household properly! I didn't say a word, and happened to be doing something else 2 feet away from his dryer anyhow.

After 7 months, my son called me to inform me that he PURPOSELY cut off contact without telling me why or giving me any hope that I might see him, his wife, and my grandson again, to GIVE ME A TASTE of how it might feel if it had been PERMANENT, and to make me realize how important being able to have contact with him & my grandson is!

My husband was concerned, because my son did not answer any calls from our numbers, blocked texts & emails, so what if something happened to me and he couldn't reach him? My son said that one reason why he called, was due to the coronavirus pandemic, as he thought my "emotions would be heightened" due to it. He also told me that all I do is criticize him when I visit, but that is not reality, not even close, and I have only visited him several times in the past 2 years, we barely talk when we visit, I play with my grandson mostly.

Then, he told me the most heartbreaking and SADDEST thing I could ever hear. He said, "You're not going to like hearing this, but, YOU ARE NOT CAPABLE OF BEING A GRANDMOTHER, IF I NEEDED HELP FROM YOU." He talked to me like I was a child bully in the principal's office, and scolded me for every mistake I made as a parent.

Being that I was already in an emotional state, (which is not good for this type of conversation), I wanted to show him that I was acknowledging his hurt from the past, I did not deny or downplay it, I listened & accepted how he felt.

But then, he gave me the reason WHY he thought I was "not capable of being a mother or grandmother": because he assumed that my husband and I were "barely scraping by", as in finances. But he assumed that, because a couple of years ago, we did have financial problems, but have recovered - BUT HE DID NOT KNOW THAT, because even before this 7 month incident, he rarely called us, and got mad at me for trying to communicate with him.

MONEY! I asked him how MONEY had anything to do with me being unable to be a real mother or grandmother, and he said that he and his wife "were doing just fine", and that they don't need any help, not from me, not from my mom, and not from his wife's parents. BUT, he said, "IF we did need to count on you as a mother or grandmother, we couldn't."

Again, I did not understand if he was really saying that it was due to MONEY! I gave him examples of how my grandmother was not wealthy, but she gave us better care than our parents did. His reply to that was, "Its different now, that was 40 years ago!" And he mentioned the fact that I am not working a "normal job where I punch a time card." AGAIN, what does THAT have to do with being a real mother/grandmother?

(by the way, my son lives in a very expensive area, but he and his wife do well, they make more than 100k a year, so they're not broke, they have a nice apartment in a very nice area, have food on the table, all of the latest "things", they have 2 brand new vehicles, and they have enough money to pay for a great pre-school, and to pay for swimming & Tae Kwon Do lessons), and do not have much credit card debt.

It got to the point where I quit trying to convince him that I had much to offer, and that I would do anything for them. But he said that regardless of my knowledge and experience in healthcare and mental health, that because I made parenting mistakes, and because my husband and I weren't well off financially, that I could not be a mother or grandmother, and that if he needed me to babysit, that I was not financially able to - "IF" the need arose.

He did not explain, and I wondered if maybe he thought I didn't have enough money to feed my grandson IF I babysat him, or what? And being that I do not work full time at a "typical" job, I have plenty of time to babysit!

This does NOT sound like my son, I can't believe that he believes it takes MONEY to be a "good" mother/grandmother! BUT, it hit me: What has MY mother taught him all of his life? She was HIS grandma, and most everything she did with him as a grandma had to do with SHOPPING, BUYING, GIVING.

I am more heartbroken now than I was before, but my son thinks our problem is worked out, that there's no need for any more talk to work out our issues. I texted him today and asked if we could talk more, and his answer was "only short, sweet emails or texts" were allowed, and "not long-winded ones". That means he is done, does not want to work out issues. 

And guess what got TOTALLY LOST IN ALL OF THIS? The reason why I made that phone call 7 months ago, my concern for my grandsons physical & emotional health got ignored. I am physically & mentally sick over this, and I know that I do not have ANY CHANCE to talk to him about the issue with my grandson. My son allowed his own feelings to get in the way of me offering a suggestion about a healthier way for an issue with my grandson to be handled, which actually would take less effort than what is currently happening, but my son made it VERY CLEAR: he said, "WHY should I listen to any sdvice from you when you made mistakes as a parent?"

I sent him a reply saying that if he only wants short & sweet communication, that it's not fair of him to judge me if he's not interested in learning anything about me, and how my past mistakes do not define me or limit what I have to offer. He did not reply, and has likely blocked me and cut contact again.

[Notwendy]

I am sorry you are going through this. I have no way of knowing exactly what is going on with your son, but one thing that is known is that dyfunction is intergenerational. This is due to how families adapt to having an individual with a dysfunction, or addiction.

Our family of origin also influences our choice of romantic partners. This is not to lay blame on anyone, as we aren't sometimes aware of dysfunctional coping skills, but in your family there seems to be issues between generations.

My BPD mother uses money to control, and buy loyalty and affection from other people. But any money from her has strings attached.

She also feels invalidated and over reacts to suggestions, even if the intent it harmless, so I don't make them with her.

Something is going on with your son and his wife. Either one, or both, could have some sort of personality disorder. To cut you off due to a suggestion, or for money reasons is extreme. It is hurtful to you, but it may be more about them than you.

Personally, I think your mother's use of money may have has some influence, but IMHO ( and I am just guessing here at the patterns) there seems to be more than this with your son and his wife's behavior. However, his family is his family and it is best to stay out of it in terms of advice. If you feel the grandchild is in serious harm, then call CPS and let them handle it. As much as this is hurtful, it may be best for you to step away, take care of yourself, and let them manage whatever is going on with them. You don't want to be the bank to gain their affection.

[peachtree487]

Notwendy:
Thank You for your response, you clarified some things for me, as I am in an awful state because I have allowed this to go unresolved for so long, and am having major trouble with organizing my thoughts enough to deal with the main problems and admitting that I cannot fix everything by myself. And yes, these problems are definitely intergenerational.

Yes, I believe that my son and his wife have issues, likely a personality disorder. I also think that he is going through a stage (similar, but worse, like I went through when I was new to being a parent) where he is looking at mistakes I made as a parent, thinking he could not imagine making those same mistakes with his child, and I believe he is also feeling guilt and shame for his own parenting mistakes and projecting his anger on to me.

My son told me that when he hears I will be visiting his home, he gets very angry at me before I even arrive. He doesn't understand that is HIS problem, in his mind. He thinks that I heavily judge his housekeeping and his parenting, but that's not accurate. (I think HE is feeling like he's not doing enough, etc, and making it like it's coming from me). When the grandparents visit, they are EXTREMELY cautious of doing or saying any little thing that could be misinterpreted, so we walk on eggshells, sit down and be nice & quiet, we all know that he & his wife do not want help or suggestions, they take it to heart. So there's very little that I have ever done that can even be misinterpreted. I checked the dryer lint, once, and he told me what that meant to him: That he's not doing a good enough job. He blames ME for his assumptions. He said he truly believes I checked the lint on purpose to make him feel bad.

I tried to tell him about something I witnessed his wife do to my grandson, (and she told me it was something she had been doing daily) and I told him that I have a suggestion on how to do it differently, the ONLY reason why I took the chance on telling him this was because, in my opinion, it's not small, but he got VERY angry immediately. He said it was only my "opinion" and that he did not trust my opinion. I even told him, that before I called, just because I knew he might not trust my judgement, that I talked to 2 other people who have certain knowledge and experience on the subject, and they agreed with my opinion, but he didn't believe me.

I also told him that if I witnessed this outside of my family, in a clinical situation as a mandated reporter, that I would not hesitate to report it. You would think that after saying that, that he and/or his wife would've been eager to listen to me or even try to prove to me that what she did was not wrong, but the only thing that happened was no communication, at all, for 7 months.
 I have not done my duty to protect my grandson, and that's why I am in such a bad state. Now, I fear for him even more due to the fact that my son, also, has failed to protect his child by allowing his personal insecurities or whatever it is, to prevent him from dealing with the problem. He made the problem his issues with me, not what he needed to take care of. 

I greatly appreciate your reply, Thank You.

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hi peachtree487:
Just popping in to make a couple of comments, based on some things I read in your thread. Different issues can pop out at different readers.  A diversity of opinions can be a good thing.

From what I've read, it sounds like your son feels invalidated. Invalidation not only occurs via the spoken word, but by expression, body language and actions.

   I checked the clothes drying at my son's house when he was busy, and he was very angry over that for a year, he assumed that by checking to see if the lint needed changed, that I assumed he wasn't taking care of his household properly! I didn't say a word, and happened to be doing something else 2 feet away from his dryer anyhow.

Unless there was a mutual agreement that you were going to use the dryer, to either help them or dry your own clothes in their dryer, why are you checking the lint trap?  Saying you were just 2 feet away isn't justification.  If you are checking his dryer's lint trap, I suspect that there are other invalidating things that you are doing.

The action is invalidating. That's something that a controlling & critical person would do.  

I tried to tell him about something I witnessed his wife do to my grandson, (and she told me it was something she had been doing daily) and I told him that I have a suggestion on how to do it differently, the ONLY reason why I took the chance on telling him this was because, in my opinion, it's not small, but he got VERY angry immediately. He said it was only my "opinion" and that he did not trust my opinion. I even told him, that before I called, just because I knew he might not trust my judgement, that I talked to 2 other people who have certain knowledge and experience on the subject, and they agreed with my opinion, but he didn't believe me. , ,

I also told him that if I witnessed this outside of my family, in a clinical situation as a mandated reporter, that I would not hesitate to report it. You would think that after saying that, that he and/or his wife would've been eager to listen to me or even try to prove to me that what she did was not wrong, but the only thing that happened was no communication, at all, for 7 months.

You stated, "in my opinion, it's not small".  It would help others to hear more detail of what you thought was abusive, in order to comment appropriately.  

I'd suspect most son's would be angry to hear:
1.  That you discussed the situation with other people
2.  That you wouldn't hesitate to report it (if he wasn't family)
3.  That you wanted him & his wife to prove to you that she didn't do anything wrong.

I don't know how serious "the reportable daily offense" is, but I'd suspect most son's wouldn't want mom back at their home, based on the 3 points above. Saying you want him to "prove his wife didn't do anything wrong" could be the reason he doesn't want to communicate with you at all.

He also told me that all I do is criticize him when I visit, but that is not reality, not even close, and I have only visited him several times in the past 2 years, we barely talk when we visit, I play with my grandson mostly.  

I suspect that there could be a lot to unpack in regard to your relationship with your son.  You might need to do a reality check. Digging deeper into your part of the "lint trap" scenario could be a start.  Again, actions, expressions & body language can invalidate.  The spoken word isn't the only way to invalidate.