Greetings and a Question -- Sorry, it's a little wordy.

[FirstAndOnly]

I'm about half way through reading Stop Walking on Eggshells, which I picked up after coming across BPD in a book about emotional abuse. It's now clear that it is affecting both my wife of 25 years, and my 15 year old daughter, who are at constant war and peace with each other, though my wife's negative attention is often turned towards me. Less recently because I've got some good boundaries set, but its still pretty daunting (in the past few weeks she has accused me of cheating, forbidding me from confiding in friends, insulted and belittled my friends, and demanded I write down complimentary things about her once a week or she'll eventually kill herself, etc...). I also remembered from way back when that my wife's mother also had BPD, so it runs in the family. She ended up estranged from her kids, divorced from her husband and died alone. My wife frequently expresses her fear that she's afraid she's going to end up in the same place, and I'd like to avoid that...but without destroying my life in the process.

In the past year, afterI finally worked up the courage to go see a therapist, I was diagnosed with PTSD from the emotional abuse, and that was supported by a doctor's cortisol (stress hormone) blood test. I was told, "You have the stress hormone levels of a soldier at war." Fun. Dealing with BPD has taken a massive toll on me, and now I've also been diagnosed with three chronic diseases. I have nerve pain all the time, and its made worse when I'm stressed...which is all the time, but worse when with my wife. My daughter's rages toward me have little effect (they pass quickly) but I'm always nervous around my wife, watching what I say...even though being quiet often lands me in hot water too.

That's the broad strokes of my situation. But my big question is this: both my wife and daughter are going to therapists. Which is great. It took years to get my wife to go, and she's admitted to being emotionally abusive in the past. But, I think the only thing she's telling her therapist is how horrible our daughter is. And the only thing my daughter is telling her therapist is how awful my wife is. SO, would it be inappropriate to contact their therapists and share my concerns about BPD?

I've read that its a bad idea to bring up the subject myself, and that its best when a therapist brings it up, but I don't see how they could ever figure it out. My wife and daughter are both charming, articulate and convincing.

I also have a son and second daughter who show no signs of BPD, but I'm afraid I'm failing to protect them from the crazy environment we live in. My son is very chill, like me, and often just jokes, "So what are we fighting about now?", but my younger daughter is starting to be negatively affected by it. I'd like to take steps to improve things, but still have no idea what to do, or who to talk to. I went to therapy all last year and then stopped, because three people going to therapy every week is a LOT of money. Open to any thoughts or advice.

Thank you!

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[Ozzie101]

Welcome FirstandOnly! While I’m sorry for the circumstances that led you here, I’m glad you found us. We’re a supportive group with a lot of experience to share.

That’s very good that your wife and daughter are in therapy. Many members’ loved ones never do agree to that.

I can’t say I’m well-versed in therapy rules, per se, but have you talked to your therapist about your concerns? My spouse was verbally abusive. Before he was aware of what was going on, my therapist offered to call his and give her a heads-up. (We didn’t take that path — long story). But it might be an option for you. You can contact their therapists but there isn’t a guarantee they will take your word for it. Hopefully someone with more knowledge will jump in.

Good for you on setting boundaries! That’s something many of us (like me) struggle with. What boundaries have you set? How are you holding the line?

I wish I had more practical advice to give. But I’m the meantime, I just wanted to offer support. I know what it’s like to live with the stress and fear and confusion and the toll that can take. This place has been a Godsend. I hope it will be for you.

[FirstAndOnly]

Thanks for the reply! Was beginning to think I wouldn't get one.

I'm thinking I might send my question to her therapist anonymously. Keep the details out, but mention I thought might spouse my have BPD and ask if I should let her (the therapist) know. The irony is that after my wife's session yesterday, in which she talked all about our daughter, she came home and told me the therapist said she thought our daughter had a personality disorder. So... that's a start.

Boundaries are hard. I work at home, and our kids are home schooled, so it can be a day long battle royale at times. I have a keypad lock on my office door now, and a red light outside the door (like a photography studio). If the light is on, it means "do not disturb". Before those efforts, I was being dragged into arguments up to 10 times in a day. Or my wife would storm up, verbally shred me, and I'd miss a whole day of work because I'd be an emotionally undone weepy mess. I also end my day at 10pm. I feel that the kids should be in bed by 10, and will do everything I can to help make that happen, but my wife lives in a world without boundaries, so that doesn't happen, and I return to the solitude of my office.

The big challenge, made worse by Covid, is establishing boundaries with friends. After years of isolation, I made a big effort to turn my casual friendships into close friendships. I did that successfully, and even shared all this stuff with them, which is a great help. My closest friends, who I see once or twice a week (with kids) are a married couple. My wife has waged a verbal war on them (to me), and accused me of having an affair with the wife...which makes seeing them awkward. Me being friends with someone puts a target on them, and guarantees I'll hear an endless stream about why they're awful.

Ugh. Anywho. Thanks again for replying.

[Ozzie101]

Loved ones with BPD trying to drive a wedge between us and friends or family is a VERY common theme around here. My own H has tried to do that with my family for years. I think it’s an extension of their fear of abandonment. Any attachments we have outside of the BPD relationship are perceived as threats. But it’s so important to keep those relationships going.

If you don’t mind sharing, how do you usually respond when she goes on the attack against friends? An I said/she said play-by-play. Sometimes having those details can help us trouble-shoot or come up with suggestions.

[Harri]

Hello.  I am joining in with ozzie and saying  I too am glad you found us and are reaching out for support.

Privacy and ethical considerations regulation sharing medical/mental health info with family members, even parents.  What has been done sometimes is for you to contact the professional with your concerns.  The thing is, there is no guarantee they will not share your concern with your wife.  Is there any way you can attend one of the sessions with them and get a feel for things?

How old are your other kids?  Your 15 year old may have BPD traits or she may be reacting to the environment in which she is living or both.  That your other two kids seem to be doing okay right now is good but it is not a guarantee they are not being affected by it.  I grew up in a home with a severely mentally ill mother and ineffective father.  Both my brother and I were affected an damaged by it but in different ways and the damage manifested in different ways.  No one really gets out unscathed IMO.  I am not saying that to bring you down but rathe to give you information to empower you so you can make better choices for yourself and your kids.  Things can get better are things are not hopeless.  

I would stand firm in keeping contact with your friends as it is so vital you have a support system.  Who else do you have?  Family?

I hope to hear more from you soon.  

[FirstAndOnly]

It got to a point where I straight out said, "You need to stop trash talking my friends." I'm very chill. I don't lose my temper very often, and I never yell. So when I said that forcefully, it stuck for a little while.

Months later, she switched over to the accusations of an affair. That caught me off guard and really made me uncomfortable. I'm a loyal person, probably to a fault, so an accusation of betrayal snuck past my BS detector. Her evidence for it was that the female friend and I talk and joke a lot. If they're here for a birthday party, the female friend and I sit with each other and joke. Things like that. Small stuff. And all true. We're good friends, hate parties and have the same sense of humor. So we hang out in those situations. The female friend and I once took our daughters kayaking, and once to a play (at my wife's suggestion!). Both of those were used as evidence. This is the same friend that has helped us in dire circumstances, whose husband is also my good friend.

After accusing me, and me denying it, she demanded that I not confide in the female friend. I asked, "What about the husband?" And she said, the husband will tell the wife everything. So it was really about cutting them off as a resource. She was more concerned that I was telling them about what goes on than she was about an affair.

In general, I try to diplomatically defend my friends.  If she points out a flaw that is true, I'll agree. If she says something that's not true, I'll disagree. I try to stay 100% factual for my own sanity. She still hears it all as "You suck and they're great". Hell, if I say anything nice about anyone, she just hears, "You suck."

I'm starting to understand why she feels these things, but am also feeling frustrated by how hopeless it all seems. Right now, I refer to Stop Walking on Eggshells, as How to Walk on Eggshells a Little Better. Still not done reading, so the verdict is still out.

[FirstAndOnly]

Hi Harri!

She'll never let me attend a session. Even asking would mean the jig is up.

My kids are 15, 13, and 11. And yes, it IS effecting them. They're just not showing signs of BPD yet. And yes, my 15 year old shows these traits mostly with my wife. She gets teenagery with me. Angry. Slams doors. But we generally have a good time together. I don't feel stressed around her. And she responds very well to my calm, logical way of talking about things. With my wife, she's always looking for the manipulation, and overreacting even if there isn't manipulation happening. But I don't blame her. I do the same thing. Then again, she was full-on BPD with her boyfriend. It was hard to watch.

As for who I have... Two local friends. The husband and wife I mentioned in a previous post. And then friends who live in different parts of the world, that I talk to about serious stuff, whilst gaming online. I see them in person about once a year. I was JUST starting to make new friends at a church board game group (started by myself and the two local friends), but then COVID happened.

My wife's mother was BPD. She was horrible, to the point that she was accusing my crippled father-in-law of trying to kill her. He wisely left. Over the years, in my frustration, before really understanding all this, I'd point out that my wife was acting like her mother. This sometimes makes things worse, but sometimes sinks in, because they even use the same catchphrases. And my daughter is using them now too.

[Ozzie101]

Reading SWOE, I’m sure you’ve come across the concept of feelings=facts. Something may be true. Or it may be untrue. But the person with BPD will twist the facts to fit whatever it is they’re feeling. It’s frustrating for us Nons to cope with it and understand it.

That’s something I struggle with. Something that can help is trying to get to the root of the matter. What is the feeling underneath? How can that feeling be validated — without validating a falsehood. For instance, what feeling do you think might be behind your wife’s problems with the friends?

There are a couple of communication skills that could come into play here: listening with empathy, SET (Support Empathy Truth) and not JADE-ing (Justify Argue Defend Explain). I’ll link below, in case you haven’t seen them. When you have time, take a look and let us know your thoughts. They’re concepts that can really come in handy and, when used consistently, can go a long way to reducing conflict.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/listen-with-empathy
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=143695.0
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=139972.0

[FirstAndOnly]

It was determined by my therapist and confirmed by friends that I have too much empathy. I not only feel people's pain, it sticks with me and takes a long time to shake. My wife's emotional pain has a profound effect on me. At first, it was just emotional. But a combination of sensory processing disorder along with a few diseases that effect my nervous system, I feel intense, literal pain and neuropathy when she's being intense (a lot). Just being near her, and on guard, makes the pain worse. Alone and/or with friends, the pain fades.

Interestingly, I visited NYC last year for work. I was with my employee, and we spent a few extra days seeing the sights and visiting a friend. We had a run in with an aggressive man on a subway, demanding money, and my employee was impressed with how calm I was, and I was later impressed that it had no effect on my pain. In fact, I was mostly pain free for the whole week.

Anywho, I do like the idea of seeing what's behind the expression of anger. Certainly fear. I think part of her subconscious issue with my friends is that their opinion of me contradicts what she has been telling me for years (that I'm a horrible husband, a bad father, etc). They're a monkey wrench in the narrative. The whole family adores me (and my kids). They've become like family for us. She is also afraid of the truth getting out. For years, she made me promise to never talk about internal family issues with other people. And I didn't, for 24 years, until I started therapy and the therapist told me to talk to people. Still, I was very selective, choosing to open up to online friends she didn't know, or to this couple, whom she wasn't close to. I didn't want to talk to her friends. Didn't want to turn people against her. I haven't said a word to my own family.

Understanding the fear behind the rage is great...but it doesn't do a whole lot for a nervous system conditioned to react to her rage. I think I posted this before, buy my doctor did a day long hormone test that showed I had the stress hormone levels of a soldier at war. And nothing bad happened that day.

[Ozzie101]

I have a strong reaction to my husband’s rates too. I get it. Believe me.

I asked about what’s behind it because sometimes that’s the key to starting the path to improvement. For instance, if my H lashes out a lot in fear because he’s insecure and thinks he’ll lose me, if I make an effort to use positive reinforcement during good times, work on our connection when he’s at baseline, etc., then he feels more secure and the rages decrease in frequency and intensity.

Likewise, hearing the truth behind the crazy statements can help me know how to respond in a way that doesn’t validate the invalid but also validated the feelings underneath (which may seem irrational but are very real).

Anyway, that’s how things have been explained to me before.