Another crisis

[Ozzie101]

I got home from work, no H. Didn’t hear from him for a while but I didn’t text or call because it’s been a stressful week and I figured he’d come home or call/text when he was ready. He called and said he got fired.

While I was trying to process this bombshell, he launched into “Your parents friends did this. This is your parents’ fault. Their friends are horrible people.” “Your parents are stupid.”

I’ve tried not reacting or getting sucked in, but it feels like dodging bullets. I’m trying to be empathetic and supportive while not validating the invalid or agreeing to things I disagree with.

He’s scared. He’s hurt. He’s embarrassed. Assuming it’s true, of course — because we’ve been down that road before.

I feel horrible for not being supportive the way I want to be. But also frustrated that he immediately started in on my parents. One minute he says they’re good people and it’s not their fault. The next he’s saying they’re bad people. Tells me I have to choose. I refused. He didn’t like that.

He wants a divorce (again, we’ve been there). Says his ex gets this better than I do and cares more. Says she knew already and reached out and seems to think I should be jealous.

He’s blaming me for not demanding a raise to take on more of the burden. For not telling my parents how horrible their friends are. For not offering to take on another job or asking my parents to support us.

It’s the same thing over and over.

[Ozzie101]

More clarification. Apparently a big part of what upset him was that his ex-wife knew about the firing before he could tell her. He was getting texts and calls. He was angry that I didn’t reach out to him first. (I didn’t know.) and he was convinced my parents knew/know and didn’t tell us. I don’t believe that’s true at all.

He’s calmer this morning but says he’s at the breaking point. The stress last week with the dog. His weight has been up and do he went to the doctor and some things cane back out of whack from the lab (I just learned that). He’s been applying for jobs with no offers. Ongoing COVID stuff. He’s at his breaking point and doesn’t know how to handle it.

I’m trying. But I’m failing. He gets stressed and turns angry, which scares me or leads to me feeling attacked. I try to be empathetic and supportive and it just never goes well. Last night when I said “I’m so sorry. What can I do to help?” He bit my head off. He goes off the rails, contradicting himself and making things up and it’s all I can do to keep my head on straight.

Again, I’m not handling it right.

What’s really hard is the blame. He gets so focused on who he can blame, what revenge he can get, how he can test people. My mind just doesn’t work that way. I can’t get behind it. But maybe that’s just one of those fundamental differences.

He thinks they’ll call him today or tomorrow and it will get sorted out. Maybe so. He says he didn’t handle some things right yesterday (chewing someone out, mouthing off). But he thinks it will be fixed. Maybe. I don’t know.

What hurts is that I know he’s suffering. He’s hurting. And I want to help and fix it. Some of those things I can’t fix. And some things he wants me to do, I just won’t because it feels wrong.

You’d think I’d be better at all this by now.

[formflier]

I'm sorry..

So, it would appear that he really is fired.  Is that right?


What would your life be life if you took "blame" as a "cue to leave a conversation".  How could you communicate that to your hubby.

Maybe give it a few days to think this over, but it's obviously no good for you or for him.

Best,

FF

[Ozzie101]

It does appear that way, but I’m not 100%. And he said this morning that he thinks it will get worked out.

I’m not sure what you mean about the blame and leaving. Do you mean somehow letting him know that if he shifts into blame mode, I will exit? I can think about that. My guess is he’ll take it as a sign of my not caring.

Lots of talk about divorce last night and saying he’s going to stay with his ex. I never react to that, which I think disappoints him.

That’s probably part of the problem. I don’t react (or react enough) to things. I’m a thinker. A processor. When something happens, I want to either think it through, or sit and discuss next steps calmly. To him, that comes across as my not caring, which just makes it worse.

And it always comes back to my family. That’s unlikely to change. No matter what they do, it’s either not enough or not right. And the fact that I won’t call them out tells him I side with them over him.

I just can’t see it as “sides.” And even if I caved and called them out, it would end up hurting him.

Thank you for the  . I need that.

[formflier]

 

I think you should take your responses "to the extremes".  (stick with me for a minute)  

Right now (and for a while now) I've gotten the impression that you are trying to "balance" his need to vent with perhaps protecting your feelings/family.

I think you should consider something like this.

1.  If he is free of blame, then you will be supportive, attentive...backrubs, cuddling (basically "full on" comfort.)

2.  If he wants to start ranting and blaming you or your family...that's your cue to leave the conversation.  (let him do whatever...you are done listening to that)

3.  If he wants to rant about other people, probably listen and ask validating questions.

4.  If he threatens or suggests staying with an ex or anyone, it's important for you to stay neutral.  Ask for his contact information to coordinate family logistics and leave it at that.  (don't get drawn in)

5.  If he wants a divorce.  Clearly state that's disappointing and ask for his proposal in writing so you can think it over.


Do you get the vibe of what I'm going for.  

I'm not so interested in EXACTLY what you do as the "vibe" shifts and get "hears" that shift loud and clear.

As a practical matter, probably good for you to think about this change in "vibe" for a couple days and get input from others on this.

Let's hope things get worked out with his work.  I still think even with that outcome you should "shift the vibe".

What's your first reaction to reading this?

What is your self care plan for today?

Best,

FF

[Ozzie101]

Thank you, FF. You always ask good, centering, thought-provoking questions.

That balancing act is definitely something I struggle with. I want so badly to be supportive (and I think he knows that) yet I always seem to fall short — usually because I’m protecting myself or family or others I care about. My refusal to agree with him bugs him. For instance, the person I see for haircuts had a mix-up and her people forgot to reschedule me. No big deal. I was fine putting it off another couple of weeks. I like her and have seen her for 15 years. When I mentioned it to him, he kept saying how mad he would be and I should find someone else. I just shrugged and said I’m happy with her.

To your points, I’m pretty sure I do 1 and 3. Also 4. I don’t react, just say I’ll take care of the dogs and I’ll see him tomorrow. (He never actually goes.)

With 5, I usually say that’s not really what I want. Or I say that’s a big decision I would need to think about and won’t make it during an emotional time.

I’ll really think over vibes and what you’ve said. Ways I can improve. I’ve been doing much better at being unemotional. That seems to ramp him up more because he sees it as evidence that I don’t care. Or maybe it’s tantrumming/extinction burst (if the latter, it’s gone on for 3 years).

My thought on vibe shift: demonstrating with actions and tone what is tolerable and what isn’t. What behavior draws support and comfort and what leads to him sorting it out on his own.

I don’t really have a plan of self-care. I have to work a full day and I didn’t get much sleep so that will be fun. Then when I get home, it will likely be tense or we’ll have a long conversation. Or he may decide he’d rather just relax and watch tv for the evening.

He got turned down for another job today. That doesn’t help his depression and growing despondency.

[formflier]

  Or he may decide he’d rather just relax and watch tv for the evening
 

There is a lot here about him and about you supporting him.

What happens if you ask him to support you?

My hope for you is that you determine your self care this evening based on what you want/need and let that be good enough or not good enough for your hubby.

So...what are your thoughts about #2.  Knowing the situation as you do, how would you go about no longer listening/participating in rants about you or anyone in your family.

Best,

FF

[Ozzie101]

Yeah, I struggle with not making it about him and what he wants/needs. In this case, he just lost his job, found out he may have a health problem and got turned down for three jobs he was up for (one today). How do I not feel selfish or uncaring focusing on myself? Not trying to disagree with you. It’s just my gut reaction.

2 is a tough one. I tried last night on the phone. He made a derogatory comment about my family and I told him I wasn’t going to discuss them in that way. I would have an adult conversation about his work, but I would not bring my family into it. He got angry that I would stand up for them but not for him.

Leaving a conversation isn’t something I’ve ever been good at. I leave the room, he follows. Or, like last night, I feel guilted into staying and listening because of what he’s going through. That’s not good. Not for him, me, or us. At one point I told him as much: “I’m ending this conversation now. We’re talking in circles. This is all too important and our relationship is too important to continue this while we’re tired and upset. We can discuss it tomorrow.” He said he may not be around to talk tomorrow. I said that would be his choice. The phone conversation ended soon after and he came home. Came up to the bedroom a few times to make a few more points or comments.

The bottom line in it all (or common thread) seems to be that he feels ostracized and discounted by my family. He feels that I side with them and defend them — never him.

I don’t know if they can ever change. No matter what happens, it’s always wrong. Once, when he was going through a rough time I suggested to my parents that a call or text would mean a lot. My dad texted but H complained it was too brief to mean anything  and religious in nature so he didn’t know how to respond. After that, I don’t bother.

But any refusal in my part to engage is proof that I choose them and do care about him. He brought up last night that this will be a huge problem with any guy I end up with.

[formflier]

So...an observation...let me know if this rings true with you.

It appears that you are gauging the effectiveness of what you do...on what he does or how he feels.

Perhaps you are looking for a way to exit a conversation with him saying "Now...I'm so impressed with that Ozzie..she knows how to stand up for her family, herself and our marriage.."

Or something like that.

I like creating "axioms" (the thinker in me) and then basing things off that.

Which of these axioms seems self evident?

1.  I will continue to engage with my pwBPD until he communicates his happiness and appreciation of my efforts.

2.  I will engage with my pwBPD until disrespect is evident, then I will protect myself without apology.

I could probably wordsmith the 2nd one a bit better, so focus on the "gist" of it rather than any precision in my words.

Once you have picked the axiom appropriate for your situation, what actions naturally "flow" from that axiom?

Best,

FF

[Ozzie101]

I do think I’m gauging my effectiveness in that way. But I’m not looking to exit with him praising my efforts. I just want the conversations to stop. Agree to disagree. Respect and recognize each other’s position and move on. I realize that’s probably unrealistic. I’d settle for him to just stop talking.

Last night he kept asking me what I wanted. I told him I just wanted to talk about it calmly and then, eventually, come up with a plan on how to deal with the new situation. He said that wasn’t possible and that I was (as always) just defending my family.

So far, the axiom I’ve been working under is probably closer to what I said above (not looking for praise or even full agreement). But I want to move to axiom 2.

The actions would be to somehow end the conversation.

That may mean saying something like, “I will not discuss my family in this way. So, I’m going to bed now.” Then doing it. Or “I’m happy to talk through the situation with you and come up with solutions. If you’re not interested in doing that, there’s nothing more to discuss tonight.”

Then going upstairs. Hanging up the phone. Leaving the house. Etc.

[Cat Familiar]

I think I recall you saying he thought he was fired at least twice previously. Do you really think it happened this time?

He blames your parents’ friends (I assume only one of them works there?), he blames your parents, but apparently he has no thoughts regarding his own job performance which might have led to losing his job.

You note the underlying emotions: fear and embarrassment. Certainly you are supportive of those feelings. When he begins blame shifting how do you deal with that?

That he asks you to choose sides leads me to believe that you listen too long to his blame shifting without gently confronting him about that. What would happen if you said something like this: “That’s a really vulnerable and scary thing to think you’ve lost your job. I’ve got faith in you and I think things will work out and we’ll be OK. Let’s just focus on you and leave other people out of this. What can I do to help?”

You probably have tried a response like this; he seems stubbornly determined to extract a loyalty pledge from you that you will renounce your family for him. And when he doesn’t get that, the divorce threats and the implied infidelity threats begin.

He obviously doesn’t have good coping skills under stress and perhaps that’s why his job might be on shaky footing, if he hasn’t truly lost it this time.

My feeling is that it’s not healthy to witness his lashing out at you and others as a response to his own lack of accountability for his job performance.

How do you feel having been through this cycle repeatedly with him?

[formflier]

My feeling is that it’s not healthy to witness his lashing out at you and others as a response to his own lack of accountability for his job performance.

And also it's likely not helping him, since he is "allowed" to blame vice have any sort of insight or problem solving. 

No..I'm not saying you are at all responsible for his job performance (clarity), yet you likely believe it's "helpful" to him to have someone to vent to (and certainly some amount of venting is "normal").

I'm pretty sure we are well beyond "normal" venting..right?

Best,

FF

[Ozzie101]

You’ve got a good handle on it, Cat. I have done what you suggested and he’s reacted pretty much how you said.

Part of the problem is he starts with the blame. I never even get the chance to lay initial supportive groundwork.

No, I didn’t really think it happened — and it didn’t. That’s why I don’t believe anything he tells me when he’s upset.

He did blow up (after a series of stresses through the week), but on the plus side, they finally listened and restructured a couple of things that will help him.

He has terrible coping skills. And when he’s calm and reasonable, he’s first to admit it. Is also very honest about his insecurities and mistakes he’s made. But the pressure builds and he goes off the deep end. And his way of looking at his behavior and attitudes is that he knows it’s wrong but can’t help it. His new therapist is working on stress management.

Way beyond healthy venting. Definitely. And it’s not good for either of us when it happens.

The more I’ve been through it, the better I’ve been able to detach and not get sucked in. To not trust the dire stories he tells. To not believe his threats. To not react emotionally. To see guilt and manipulation for what they are.

Doesn’t make it much easier in the moment, though. And it does damage to us, ultimately.

[formflier]

So...he didn't get fired?

Best,

FF

[formflier]

Hmm...just a thought or idea for discussion.

Might be time to "go on offense".

If I remember right the pattern is that he will claim not to remember and perhaps is remorseful.  However you have done "your part" in the past, I think it's time to do the opposite or at least make sure you don't do what you have normally done before.

So what was your part in the pattern before?

It would seem to me that directly dealing with the issue of lies/misremembrance/whatever you want to call it/   seems important.

Practical question:  For what purpose should I continue to have conversations with you, when it normally turns out to have not happened the way you say it happened (or the story changes).

We'll have to find a kinder but clear way to say that.

Best,

FF

[Ozzie101]

No, not fired. I’m not sure if he imagined it happened or if it did and they backtracked. I’m guessing the former, going by what’s happened before. He did blow up at someone, though.

Very good suggestion, FF. Now that he’s calm and settled, that’s a discussion we need to have. The pattern of just going back to normal isn’t helpful. I’ve told him before that this can’t keep happening, that it’s damaging, etc. But I haven’t presented a concrete plan or set of consequences or gotten his input.

[formflier]

Likely a subtle shift in the language.

This can't keep happening...(old language)

Ask him what steps he is going to take on Monday to move forward in a different direction...if something reasonable comes out..roll it it and keep following up.

We all know at some point he will backtrack and then the shift.

I'm not going to be part of this in the future or anymore...(words to that effect)

Certainly  we need to talk through specifics of what you will do that is very different...but your "listening and support" should dramatically shift to being conditional.

And  yes...let him claim, threaten, lie..whatever...

Switching gears:

Has the (what do we even call this) lying about being fired been getting worse?  How long has it been happening?  How long as "this type of thing" been going on?

Best,

FF

[GaGrl]

Several of your H's workplace behaviors still puzzle me. First, how does he continue to "blow up" and "chew out" his team members and NOT lose his job? It is a strange work culture. Second, he doesn't seem to hear and absorb what goes on in work conversations. I wonder if he is dissociating on the job.

With a 40 year HR career behind me, here's what I think is going on...

The  non-profit organization is not HR savvy in terms of managing performance. Many such organizations are not -- and if they have fewer than 50 employees, they don't have to adhere to many regulations that larger orgs must follow. So when there is team or individual conflict, there might not be a process to follow for performance management or team conflict resolution.

Your H has thought he was being fired several times. I suspect an authority figure was holding a performance correction conversation. There may even have been the dreaded phrase used -- "failure to improve XYZ will lead to further corrective action, up to and including termination" -- although I doubt they are that rigorous. It might be the verbal warning/written warning/termination process, or a 90 day improvement plan. Who knows? But I could imagine your H, already stressed, hearing the word "termination" in the context of a larger performance conversation, going to the worse case scenario, dissociating, and thinking he was fired.

And then the blaming behavior sets in.

When in reality, unless the director of the personnel committee, or your parents, or you, are walking beside him on the job, 40+ hours a week, no one other than H is participating in the behavior that is getting him in trouble in the workplace.

So I guess I'm landing on two situations that are putting your H in a bad place -- dissociation and blaming. And I'm wondering if the dissociation is the more severe problem -- he loses touch with reality.

[formflier]

  And I'm wondering if the dissociation is the more severe problem -- he loses touch with reality.

This is where I am at. 

I've done "these type" of executive jobs before and been around people that did them well and people that were absolutely out of touch.

My guess is (stand by for wacky FF theory) that he is completely out of touch and there are a bunch of church/non-profit committees (and people) that are doing as they please without any sort of direction from him and he functions as a figurehead (rubber stamp)

Now...if the people under him are moral and good, this is actually ok because they are probably "staying in their lanes". 

If there are stinkers involved, then all sorts of bad stuff can be going on "underneath" a detached/dissociative executive.

Now there is a new guy (SP) on the scene and he will soon figure out the way the church runs is not as he was led to believe (actually not an uncommon thing) and how he deals with that will be interesting to watch.

Here is my take on it.  As a "CEO" whether or not a person (or yourself) is actually an employee or not of an organization is a big deal.  Seriously...how many people has he "fired" or "hired" and it didn't really happen?

I'm less drawn into the debate over "chewing people out".  That means so many things to so many different people (I don't see much there)

But "fired"...if "emotional instability" leads your husband to loose touch with that concept (which is obviously does)...then...wow,   that's probably a tip of the iceberg stuff.

Seriously...because then how are projects "approved" and expenditures "approved" and checks "signed" and work schedules "published".

Best,

FF

[Cat Familiar]

I dealt with a similar type of repetitive pattern with my husband. He felt estranged from his sisters, largely (in my opinion) due to his own choices. But he thought they didn’t care about him or feel that he was “part of the family.”

Since they live on the opposite coast, we don’t interact with them very often. And he felt that they didn’t think he was “a real person” because he doesn’t have kids.

When he would start up with his whining about them, at first my approach was to try and make sense about his complaints. “Perhaps sister A didn’t return your phone call because she’s so busy with her kids.”

I was trying to inject a note of understanding her situation, but he took it as, “You’re on their side,” and became very angry.

This pattern repeated itself over and over. I learned to say little, otherwise I became a traitor to him and was firmly on his sisters’ side, which was ridiculous because I hardly knew them.

He did some therapy about this issue and fortunately I seldom hear him complain about them, as he seems to have accepted them as they are. One seems like a narcissist, fortunately not a malignant narcissist like their deceased father, and the other is overly codependent with her adult children, and I suspect they’re becoming tired of that.

Now I’ve got some distance on the dynamic, I believe that his sisters’ behavior triggered some early childhood traumas. They all acknowledge that he, as the oldest child, was the target of their father’s cruelty, much more than they were.

It seems like your husband wanting you to choose between him and your family is a similar dynamic, probably related to something from his early childhood. It’s not a rational issue, so logic won’t touch it when he’s in the midst of it.

I suspect that he realizes that he’s given a bad impression to your family and he’s projecting that they are critical of him, and perhaps they are, with good reason. But impressions can be changed, if one is willing to do so.

Perhaps you can discuss this when he’s calm and rational. It certainly undermines your attraction to him when he asks you to renounce your family. He needs to understand the consequences of his behavior.

[Ozzie101]

The work-related dissociation thing has been going on for several months — maybe a year.

It’s hard for me to say what’s really going on. The previous SP had some issues of his own and was known to yell at people for nothing, cuss people out, refuse to acknowledge people. That got worse about a year ago.

There’s been a lot more stress and pressure due, in large part, to financial difficulties that started about two years ago. Some members died or moved. Some left because they felt the SP was too political in his sermons.

A lot of what H seems to struggle with is in dealing with the church people and committees. Some people get over-involved (and often think they know more than they do). Some throw fits over things. You should have seen/heard the ruckus when the church decided to stop providing hundreds of donuts every Sunday in an effort to cut costs.

As H will tell you, he takes things personally. Any question he sees as a challenge. When church members get upset, he feels attacked. Instead of stepping back and seeing that someone is acting irrationally or emotionally (likely for unrelated reasons), he internalizes and gets worked up about it. But volunteers can be difficult. And when it comes to their church, people have emotional reactions and investment.

As for the workplace, there’s dysfunction. I’ve heard that before from others. Staff develop jealousies or issues and get upset. My H is the person they go to, which frustrates him because he feels a lot of it should be worked out between them. Quite a few are on meds for depression/anxiety or ADHD.

So, a lot of stress. He wants a job where he doesn’t have to supervise — or supervised fewer people.

He’s well-liked by the people he works with. The look to him for help and to look out for them — which increases the pressure.

Another place he deals with stress is he gets frustrated that people leave him out of the loop on things and then mess something up. Or they don’t listen to him and create problems. That happened with the head of the personnel committee who left him off an email, confused the finance office, and as a result a group of employees didn’t get paid for the last two weeks of June (violating the terms of the PPP loan).

I’m not sure if he really blows up or just gets so internally upset that he dissociates, thinks he blew up, and then goes from there. Kind of like a couple of months ago when He got upset, thought he sent a horrible email and then was convinced he’d been fired.

He feels like everything will get better if he gets out of there. I think it might temporarily. But the bigger issue is his inability to handle stress and handle his reactions and emotions.

Agreed on family, Cat. I think he has a lot of insecurities there (and abandonment issues). He made a bad (or at least not good) impression on them and struggles with that. We’ve discussed that that can be fixed and he can build a good relationship with them, but he’s not very optimistic. He’s not patient. And when he’s in a neutral or negative mood he gets annoyed, insisting he shouldn’t have to prove himself.

[I Am Redeemed]

More clarification. Apparently a big part of what upset him was that his ex-wife knew about the firing before he could tell her. He was getting texts and calls.

Is it possible that the ex wife is the one who put the idea in his head that he was fired?

[Ozzie101]

I don’t know. I don’t know what was said, what happened or even if there was a conversation at all. For all I know, she called at a bad time, he told her he’d blown up and she warned him to be careful or something. It’s anyone’s guess.

[formflier]

The work-related dissociation thing has been going on for several months — maybe a year.

And tell me again about his "engagement" with his doctors/medical providers.  Didn't you say his weight is all over the place?

And perhaps he is haphazard about going to doc/following any directions he has been given?

Any long term medications or medication changes.

Here is my gut reaction...that a guy who has been a long term and well liked CEO (how long?) all of a sudden can't sort reality of whether or not he is working for the organization he leads...and that becomes persistent for a year...

Is it accurate to say it's getting worse or has it been a steady cycle since it started a year ago?

Anyway...I'm positive that BPDish tendencies and bad relationships skills don't help him...but I don't think his regular breaks from reality are "BPD"

At a minimum there are lots of things to be "ruled out", but I don't think emotional instability covers this kind of thing.

Would your hubby go to his GP for a full work up if you asked him?  Would he fully disclose or allow you to disclose his breaks with reality?

Best,

FF

[Ozzie101]

Very good points.

H has always been very focused on his health. He sees doctors more often than I do. He went last week because of his weight concerns and has an appointment with another internist this coming week to double-check. His bloodwork cane back way off so they’re rerunning it. Results tomorrow. I’m torn between hoping it’s nothing and hoping it’s something that explains the weight gain and mental issues. Unlikely, I know.

He’s told his PCP and his T about the dissociations but the doctor just said H needs to reduce stress. His T said that’s not uncommon with rage episodes.

Everyone has told him the problems are related to his job since the timing of things there turning sour there (he used to love his job) and his emotional problems are linked.

I don’t know. He has said I’m welcome to come along to an appointment, no hiding there.

Doctors frustrate him because he says they’re “unhelpful”. Either they don’t think anything’s wrong or they don’t give him answers he likes. Today he said he might just stop seeing them all together.

I don’t know if there’s a genuine physical problem or if he’s just in a situation with extreme levels of stress and poor coping skills.

And he’s flat-out admitted to me that he’s always believed I would leave him and, in a way, his divorce threats and attacks are so he can be the one to control when it happens.

I feel for him. He’s applying for jobs every day but no luck. He’s afraid he’s been in the church/nonprofit world do long no one outside it will give him a chance. He fully believes if he can get a new job, all his issues will stop. I do believe that but I do think it would help — for a while at least.

[formflier]

I think you should go so you can make sure doctor is hearing your point of view AND to jointly ask doctor for help in running this down from a medical perspective.

Licensed psychologists and therapists would qualify and being part of that.

I'm pretty sure his job/emotions play a part in it but my guess is that several things are going on here.

How old is your hubby again?  Any "known" health problems?

Or perhaps things you thought solved years ago.

Best,

FF

[Ozzie101]

He’s 44. The only known health concern is acid reflux.

He’s struggled with depression and anxiety for years (as well as a tendency to ruminate). Also has a history of blowing up, going back to childhood. But the extremes I’ve seen the last couple of years have not, or so I’m told, had any precedent with him.

Weight has always been an issue for him and much of it is psychological, really. But he restricts himself to almost explore me levels and it will still go up. Or fluctuate 8 pounds in a day (he’s obsessive about the scale).

Honestly, I don’t know what to think.

[formflier]

Honestly, I don’t know what to think.

Well..I don't either, which is why I'm giving the advice I am.  

I've been around these boards for a while and really don't recall another "symptom" like this and so specific as this. (the firing thing)

It's like asking a firefighter if he fought a fire that day...or an airline pilot if he got airborne.  I realize that emotions can really obscure things, yet I find it hard to attribute "emotions" to a CEO knowing if he is employed or not, and all those other professions knowing (fill in the blank).

And here is the thing...let's say they figure out it is is "emotions"..then what.  If you can "emotionally blackout" that much (deeply), should you be driving and doing lots of other activities.

So...when I'm faced with such a head scratcher I ask lots of questions, demand data, "rule out" things.

I would start with a full blood work to include vitamins (d, b12..etc etc).    

Personally..FF is much better with lots of extra b12, even though my tests come back in the "normal" range.

What blood work was "off"?    How is his diet?

Please don't misunderstand...I don't think you should be "alarmed" but I do think you should be "ok..enough is enough, let's get to the bottom of this."

Best,

FF

[Ozzie101]

I agree. I don’t want to flip out but also want to make sure there’s nothing seriously wrong.

They ran a full blood and thyroid panel. Still waiting on the thyroid. I know his blood sugar was off (he ate less than 12 hours before so that could have had something to do with it). The results that were off were kidney or liver related.

Diet? Most days, he doesn’t eat until dinner. Veggies and protein of some sort. Once a week or so we may get pizza or Mexican. He and I will usually have dessert — a little ice cream or something like that. So, he’s not overeating or indulging in unhealthy foods very often at all. He keeps track of his calories but the app won’t even let him save his daily log because it’s not enough calories.

The undereating makes his mood worse and makes it that much more difficult for him to handle stress. He threatens to just not eat at all for several days just to prove to the doctors that something is wrong (if weight still goes up).

It’s very odd to me. The doctor did run bloodwork (and reran it when it was off). We’ll see what that says. And what the second opinion doc says Thursday.

He is at an age where men tend to put on weight or have trouble taking it off, but I’m not sure that explains the gain and fluctuation.

I’ll admit, I don’t know how to help or what to say or do. I had a sister who was severely anorexic. So, I may be sensitive to weight worries. He’s also told me advice or things I say to try to be supportive aren’t helpful coming from me. (I’m naturally skinny. Got lucky generically.)

[Cat Familiar]

Do you think fluid retention might be a possible reason for the weight fluctuation?