uncomfortable humor

[Depression = 72% of members]

It's been a rough week. Tonight my uBPD boyfriend said, "So what's the fight about?" Keep in mind that he has an odd sense of humor. I get that it's a joke and I laugh, but he's not satisfied. He explains (after a passive aggressive remark, and I ask what's wrong) that I'm supposed to play along with him and make some sort of weird remark back. That playing helps him to relieve the incredible tension in his head. That I always assume the worst of him (that he wanted a real fight). Then it does turn into a real fight, with me crying and him yelling at me for crying, telling me to get myself together.

For context, we've been living with my parents (written about in other threads), which has caused massive problems for him on top of the usual mood swings, compounded by addiction. So I do feel horrible. Why can't I take a joke? Why can't I be more fun and playful and be more supportive of him in general and be the one shining light in his life?

At the same time, I am angry. Why do I have to behave as he dictates me to behave? I tried to explain to him that tone, etc., play a role, and also the context of the past few hours; we'd already had some tense moments and just a few minutes before he was shouting about lack of internet and the horrors of life in general; he doesn't seem to have any awareness of how his behavior and mood swings impact me or that I might not be in such a playful mood or that I have feelings and desires and needs as well. I also told him that sometimes his humor style doesn't put me in such a playful mood and he just says, "Fine, I'll find someone who does!" I finally just apologized and said I would be there for him moving forward, but he wasn't having it.

Now it's turned into a cold war. Part of me wants a resolution and don't want to stew in resentment but I also want him to take some accountability for his behavior, instead of blaming me for every single thing that goes wrong. When I said it doesn't have to be 100% someone's fault, he immediately interpreted that as me trying to "weasle" out of wrongdoing. Obviously I could have handled this situation better. Trying to use all the tools, but unfortunately there's many situations they don't fit in neatly. Feeling lost on where to turn.

[HappyKJ]

It's been a rough week. Tonight my uBPD boyfriend said, "So what's the fight about?" Keep in mind that he has an odd sense of humor. I get that it's a joke and I laugh, but he's not satisfied. He explains (after a passive aggressive remark, and I ask what's wrong) that I'm supposed to play along with him and make some sort of weird remark back. That playing helps him to relieve the incredible tension in his head. That I always assume the worst of him (that he wanted a real fight). Then it does turn into a real fight, with me crying and him yelling at me for crying, telling me to get myself together.

For context, we've been living with my parents (written about in other threads), which has caused massive problems for him on top of the usual mood swings, compounded by addiction. So I do feel horrible. Why can't I take a joke? Why can't I be more fun and playful and be more supportive of him in general and be the one shining light in his life?

At the same time, I am angry. Why do I have to behave as he dictates me to behave? I tried to explain to him that tone, etc., play a role, and also the context of the past few hours; we'd already had some tense moments and just a few minutes before he was shouting about lack of internet and the horrors of life in general; he doesn't seem to have any awareness of how his behavior and mood swings impact me or that I might not be in such a playful mood or that I have feelings and desires and needs as well. I also told him that sometimes his humor style doesn't put me in such a playful mood and he just says, "Fine, I'll find someone who does!" I finally just apologized and said I would be there for him moving forward, but he wasn't having it.

Now it's turned into a cold war. Part of me wants a resolution and don't want to stew in resentment but I also want him to take some accountability for his behavior, instead of blaming me for every single thing that goes wrong. When I said it doesn't have to be 100% someone's fault, he immediately interpreted that as me trying to "weasle" out of wrongdoing. Obviously I could have handled this situation better. Trying to use all the tools, but unfortunately there's many situations they don't fit in neatly. Feeling lost on where to turn.

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[pursuingJoy]

Why do I have to behave as he dictates me to behave?

Hi HappyKJ! I've had these days too. It really sucks to feel like you're just left swinging, at the mercy of his moods.

I've been learning and reading up on what it means to be the emotional leader. Would it help to work through a conversation (he said/I said) so that we can brainstorm alternative responses? I'd love for you to find your footing and feel like you're equipped to steer the ship.

[HappyKJ]

Thank you so much for your response, Pursuing Joy! Yes, it would absolutely help. I think my problem is that I get defensive, and reactionary. My thoughts and emotions quickly become muddled into a "stew" and it's hard for me to think clearly.

So it started with him feeling hurt because he was already in a terrible mood and feeling a great deal of pain, and then I did not respond to his joke "What's the fight about?" in the way he was hoping. It's hard for me to remember exactly how the conversation played out, but something along the lines of me first trying to just listen to him and saying "I hear you," but as he kept piling on, I started fighting back, saying that he can't just push a button and expect me to give his desired reaction, that it's not 100% my fault (so which he said, "Oh, so it's 100% my fault!"), to which I said something like "no, we both play a role") and then he said something like "Oh, so you want it to be 50/50! Well, it's not 50/50 when your parents torture me!") I also mentioned I was already tense because he yelled at me earlier for hugging him, to which he yelled, "I didn't yell at you, I was just busy!" In short, not a productive conversation.

So how I can appropriately validate his feelings and hurt while also acknowledging that I can't just cater to his every desire?

[pursuingJoy]

I think my problem is that I get defensive, and reactionary. My thoughts and emotions quickly become muddled into a "stew" and it's hard for me to think clearly.

Love this self-awareness. It starts here. My pulse rate goes up, I start to breathe faster and my anxiety kicks up. I can't think or talk straight once that's started. Your body and brain are perceiving danger, and it takes some mindfulness to come back to baseline.  Acknowledge what is happening in your body, then connect with the feelings. Most of all, breathe and pause. You'll feel urgency to respond, but the best thing you can do is slow down.

Last week, H was angry about something. I let him talk, forced myself to breathe. I let myself think one thing at a time. When I spoke, it was only one sentence or question. After a few minutes, he 'borrowed' my energy and calmed down.

So it started with him feeling hurt

Love this too. You're a step ahead because you recognize his mood. How he is behaving is his responsibility, but you can use what you observe to inform your response and next steps.

as he kept piling on, I started fighting back, saying that he can't just push a button and expect me to give his desired reaction,

This is a pretty critical point, and moments like this will require you to make a decision. Check in with yourself before it gets to this point. Can you keep going and stay calm? Stay silent and let him talk. You might ask an informed question to let him know you're listening and that you care. While he's talking, listen, but also imagine an inflated balloon that is letting out air. Imagine that same balloon going limp. If you feel your heart beating fast after a nasty statement, check in with yourself again. Can you keep this up and stay calm or do you need to switch gears?

If you've checked in with yourself and you can't stay calm, because you're human, it may be better to say, "I really want to talk to you about this, it's an important conversation. I don't feel like I can give you my full attention right now because I'm hungry. Do you mind if we pick this up in about 30 minutes after I've had a bite to eat? Do you want something to eat, too?" This gives you a second to breathe and come back to baseline so that you can be the emotional leader, and it's an excuse that doesn't feel like rejection to him.

There may also come a time when you need to simply say, "I'm not in a good place to have this discussion right now. I'm going for a walk. If you want, I'll be back in about an hour and we can pick it up then."

You see it coming a mile away. You have the advantage. The goal is checking in with yourself and making intentional decisions that help you maintain your equilibrium.

[HappyKJ]

Thank you! Wonderful advice about checking in with myself. He even noticed that I was losing control and was having trouble forming coherent statements. Of course, he said this in not such a nice way, and I felt even more attacked and a stronger need to justify myself and prove that I WAS coherent. But that would have been a good opportunity for me to surrender, saying, "You know what, you're right. I think I need a time out."

[HappyKJ]

Also, after validating his hurt, disappointment in me, ect., how then do I then articulate that while I love him and am here to support him, he is responsible for his own feelings? I am struggling to come up with a way to say it without coming across as condescending, uncaring, etc. But this is really at the core of our problems. He'll come up with some behavior of mine that is causing him turmoil, I'll bend over backwards to fix it, and then like a game of whack-a-mole another "problem behavior" comes up.

[Ozzie101]

PJ is giving you a lot of great advice here, Happy.

So much of what you say is familiar to me. I’ve been there. Many times.

The key, as PJ says, is to check yourself and do what you have to do to get out of the discussion if you feel yourself getting worked up. It’s so easy to react when you’re being provoked. I still struggle with that. But I’ve gotten better because I work on calming myself. I also know his playbook. I know what he’s going to try to use to trigger me. That makes it easier for me to keep a response down.

A couple of other things:
I’ve learned to never ask my H “what’s wrong?” It’s triggering for him.

You ask how you articulate that he is responsible for his feelings? You don’t. At least not when he’s upset. If he’s open to it and very self-aware, you may be able to discuss it in a calm time. But it may be something you just gave to do on your end. How? By deciding for yourself that you are not responsible for his feelings. Refuse to take them on for him. Don’t rise to bait. Take care of yourself. Be empathetic but firm. Draw those boundaries — but remember that that doesn’t mean you have to tell him what you’re doing.

Does that make sense?

[HappyKJ]

Thank you, Ozzie! Yes, that makes perfect sense. Yes, asking "what's wrong?" is triggering to my bf, too. That also makes sense that boundaries is more of an internal thing -- deciding that he is responsible for his feelings, rather than telling him that outright. So the next time he starts in on the blame game, what do you think is the best course of action? Stay calm, validate his feelings, and then say something like, "Let's find a solution together?"

[Ozzie101]

That’s a good question — one that I’ve been trying to find the answer to with my H. A lot of it depends on your BF and what he’s like.

That certainly sounds like a good starting point. Be aware that, when he’s upset, he might not be capable of problem-solving. You may just need to stay calm, validate and find a way to exit. PJ gave a good example of that.

If he’s open to it in calm times, you may be able to brainstorm about solutions then. My T suggested I discuss solutions (“what do you think would be helpful to you when you’re in those moods?”) when he’s rational and at baseline. I plan to try that one myself later this week. But I know my H will be eager and open to it when he’s not upset. Your BF may be different.

[HappyKJ]

Thank you, Ozzie. That's a great suggestion.

Things just took a turn for the worse (may start a new thread for it). Last night, he said he was leaving. He's made this threat in the past, but this time I think he's serious. He's in this harsh, cold, severe mood, and it's hard to talk to him. He prides himself on cutting people out of his life, which is why he has hardly any friends now. I think because he was abandoned as a child, the best way he knows how to cope with the pain of rejection is to inflict it on others. I listened to a whole litany of cruel words that he said to me, did not say anything, and did not try and defend myself (even when he baited me). When I told him I was sorry, he said his favorite line, "Sorry, never fixed anything!" I took ownership for areas where I'd fallen short and he twisted my words against me, saying it was proof I don't care about the relationship (if I didn't care, why would I put up with all the crap I do? but of course I didn't say that).

This morning he softened a little, but then started in on the character assassination again, saying he can't trust me and not only can I NOT communicate but I REFUSE to communicate. When I said communication was a rather broad topic and to please give me a more clear picture of what they would look like, he gave some sarcastic remark in return basically implying that I was an idiot. I'll be the first to admit that I'm not perfect and I have some areas that could use work, but this dictatorial, demeaning approach does not work for me and certainly doesn't open me up to want to communicate more. Nevermind that he is not the easiest person to communicate with, as he is prone to rages, reactions out of proportion with the comment, and memory lapses (he often claims I never told him something when I did). And he is just plain rigid and rarely considers other perspectives (when it's personal to him), yet accuses me of not seeing nuance.

I'm feeling heartbroken and angry. Why is it always me that has to change to accommodate him? And also angry at myself for putting up with it and for turning so shriveling and pathetic and inarticulate in this conversations. And scared that all the things he says about me are true. Because when he's in this cold, rational state, reducing me to a babbling mess, I start to think I'm the one with issues.

[Ozzie101]

I’m so sorry, Happy. I know how hard those times can be.

It’s so easy to get turned around by what our BOD loved ones say. When I first came here, I didn’t know which end was up. The things he said and accused me of had me doubting myself to my core. I was certain I was a failure as a wife.

Through the help of members here, my therapist, and just work on myself, I’ve gotten to a more secure place — at least internally.

Some of that has come from studying BPD and getting an understanding for how it works. It’s like the difference between a boxing match in the dark and one in full light. The blows may still come, but fewer will land — and when they do land, you can see them coming.

I understand much more now about black and white thinking, facts=feelings, projection, fear of abandonment (and how it can cause people to push loved ones away).

What has also helped me is setting boundaries and defining things for myself. I know what I believe. I know who I am. I know where I will and will not compromise. If he can’t live with that and chooses to leave, I know I’ll be ok.

In this case, I’m concerned about your having to listen to a litany of accusations. I know from experience how damaging that is. Did you attempt to end or leave the discussion? (This is an area I’m still working on so I know it’s not easy!)

 

[pursuingJoy]

Happy I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. I don't care how strong you get, or how good at the tools you become, the people we love can hurt us with their words. Big hug. 

One of the best ways you can live out what you know to be true (that he is responsible for his emotions) is to give him space to self-soothe. Can you identify a point where you wanted to get away, or wanted it to stop? That might be a good time to say, "I know you've had a hard day. I'd love to talk to you about this, but I am not in a good place to give you my full attention. Let's pick this up later." Then simply leave, provided you can do so safely. You're giving him the opportunity to practice self-soothing.  He may not do well with it at first.

Great job staying calm. Do you see how strong you are?

Remember, too, that it's not just about keeping an externally even keel for him or for the sake of the relationship. Your heart and energy are precious and worth protecting. You won't be able to sustain an even keel outside, if your energy inside is dim and wavering. It's perfectly ok to say to yourself, "I don't want to absorb any more of this hurtful diatribe right now" and say to your BF, "Let's pick this up later." It's not just about him - protect your heart. 

 

[Ozzie101]

Excellent points, PJ.

Part of the point of all this is to protect yourself and try to move your relationship to a healthier place. Part of that is him learning how to self-soothe. How to handle emotions without turning on you.

You need to keep up your strength. One thing my T focused on in my session yesterday was my need for self-care (something I’ve been neglecting lately). It’s so important to take care of yourself physically, emotionally and mentally.

[HappyKJ]

Thank you, Ozzie and Pj! Excellent points.

You're right that I should not just absorb everything he is saying. In this situation, I felt like I had to listen because 1) he said he was leaving, so I had to hear him out if I wanted to "rescue" the relationship and 2) it was under the pretenses of terrible pain I had caused him, so I "owed" it to him to listen to him. It's also difficult because he is quite intelligent and articulate and rarely resorts to profanities, which makes it both difficult to know it's taking place until after the fact and makes it sound quite persuasive.

I talked to a therapist today and am feeling better. She reminded me, as you said, Ozzie, that I don't need this relationship to keep functioning. Also she told me that everything I'm learning in this relationship is serving some higher purpose (like for instance, teaching me to speak my truth) and even if it doesn't work out, it doesn't mean I'm a failure. And you're absolutely right that I shouldn't compromise my values for him because as I've learned, it's never enough for him anyway.

[Ozzie101]

Feeling like you “have to listen” is an easy trap to fall into. I’ve fallen more times than I can count.

But that’s FOG (fear obligation guilt) talking. Ask yourself — do you really have to? If he’s using abusive language or you feel attacked or uncomfortable, is that something you have to endure? If he’s being calm and rational and it’s a real conversation, that’s a different thing.

You’re right, it’s easy to not see it until it’s over or you’re in the middle. That’s where achieving some emotional distance and awareness can be helpful.

[HappyKJ]

Well said, Ozzie. Another thing the therapist said about detaching from hurtful phrases is to ask yourself,  "Do I know this for a fact to be true?" And this connects to what you said about conflating facts with feelings. He may feel that I "cannot communicate," but this cannot be proved as a fact. While communication is certainly an area I need to work on, "bad communicator" does not need to define my identity.

[pursuingJoy]

In my opinion, you communicate really well, Happy. Someone here pointed out that when my H says hurtful things, he may be trying to communicate that I'm not understanding him the way he wants to be understood, OR that I'm not responding the way he wants me to (ie, I'm not caving to a demand, or I'm holding a boundary). Wouldn't it be awesome if they could communicate "when you hold a boundary, it makes me sad" instead of attacking with "you can't communicate."

I am impressed at your ability to see what's happening in the moment and all of the good stuff you're doing.

I felt like I had to listen because 1) he said he was leaving, so I had to hear him out if I wanted to "rescue" the relationship

Your mindfulness of your role as rescuer here is great.  It's a role many of us non's feel compelled to play.

and 2) it was under the pretenses of terrible pain I had caused him, so I "owed" it to him to listen to him.

Love that you put "owed" in quotation marks here. This is obligation, the "O" in FOG. 

It's also difficult because he is quite intelligent and articulate and rarely resorts to profanities, which makes it both difficult to know it's taking place until after the fact and makes it sound quite persuasive.

It's a tactic that's worked well for him to get attention in the past. He'll use it again. No need to feel obligated or pressured to respond. 

I talked to a therapist today and am feeling better.

Love that you're taking care of yourself! 

She reminded me, as you said, Ozzie, that I don't need this relationship to keep functioning. Also she told me that everything I'm learning in this relationship is serving some higher purpose (like for instance, teaching me to speak my truth) and even if it doesn't work out, it doesn't mean I'm a failure. And you're absolutely right that I shouldn't compromise my values for him because as I've learned, it's never enough for him anyway.

You're very wise. Doesn't mean that the BPD's we love won't say things that hurt us. By seeking support and validating and understanding, as you are, some of the sting comes out of that hurt. 

[HappyKJ]

Thank you, PJ. As a former English teacher, I love the line by line breakdown! You're absolutely right that when he gets frustrated with my communication, it is most likely because I'm not communicating in his preferred way. The advice of you, Ozzie, and others on this site has helped me to stay sane and grounded through all of this. There's been more tears and roller coaster emotions since then, but thankfully no huge fights. I think he's just trying to figure things out. At one point he asked me (as he has in the past) what I could possibly see in him, I pointed out the reasons, and he said that none of those things were true. So at the core of all these hurtful statements is a fragile self-esteem.

Last night he said he needed to go into isolation for a bit and clear his head and get rid of his dependency on pills and alcohol. I said I supported any decision he made and would be there for him. Perhaps it would do him so good and allow him to figure things out. Isolation has not worked well for him in the past, but he really needs to learn those coping skills. I'm doing my best to stay calm through all of it, offering my input while staying out of the way and allowing him to make decisions on his own.

[Ozzie101]

Being open and loving but giving him space to make his own decisions and handle his own feelings sounds like a healthy approach to me.

What about you? Have you given thought to what you can do for self care?

[HappyKJ]

Hi Ozzie, yes, I have been increasing my meditation sessions. I used to just allow myself 15 tops if that, anything more felt excessive, but now I go for anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour if necessary (and lately it has been haha). I found a YouTube series from PowerThoughts Meditation Club on the chakras that's been particularly powerful. Listening to inspiring videos, yoga, going for walks. Generally I tend to power through work as a way to numb my feelings, and while I do enjoy my work and it does help to take my mind off things, now I'm giving myself a little grace, taking more time for myself and not feeling like I have to get everything done. This in turn allows me to feel calmer, more balanced, and less likely to unravel when things around me get chaotic. I also realized I'd been carrying around a lot of pent-up anger which was just making things worse and meditation is helping me to release that; it's also helping me to feel more loving and not take on others' emotions.

[once removed]

1) he said he was leaving, so I had to hear him out if I wanted to "rescue" the relationship and

you may be overdoing it in terms of validation.

validation is not about agreement. its not about apology. and specifically, you dont want to "validate the invalid".

validation can be as simple as actively listening. nodding. not crossing your arms and scowling or positioning your body language to leave the room, but responding, mirroring.

but if i say "HappyKJ, you are a     , youre the worst girlfriend in the world", thats not really a case where you want to say "i understand how you feel, thats valid". its me having a tantrum.

it is often easier to think in terms of "dont be invalidating" rather than "validate". because if youre not being invalidating, you are, most likely, being validating. and also because you dont want to think of validation in terms of trying to make his negative emotions go away. its easy to do, but it wont come across as validating.

whats really valid here? hes beating himself, and you, up about living with your parents. a lot of guys would. he has an ego, and its a smaller space for the two of you to share. id bet a lot of money that that is what is driving a great deal of the conflict right now.

[HappyKJ]

Excellent points, Once Removed. Yes, during his calmer and more reflective moments, he'll even say that when he lashes out at me, it's usually because he's unhappy with himself or his life.