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Author Topic: Accused me of cheating and then went no contact  (Read 315 times)
dindin
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« on: August 17, 2020, 02:49:46 AM »

My gf of 1,5 years, who is diagnosed with BPD, has accused me of cheating and doesn't answer phone calls or texts.

Recently it has been a really really good time in terms of our love, mostly thanks to her managing BPD well. I set out clear boundries when it comes to micro-managing and nagging that have been a huge issue before, and she respected them. Was apologetic whenever she tried to control what clothes I wear, when I work, or what I eat, as she had a huge problem with trying to impose her way of doing things. But that has amazingly improved once I started setting adequate boundries in a firm manner.

But I couldn't escape the impression that she resented me for not tolerating her controlling behaviour anymore. She would often sneak little passive aggressive remarks, almost subconsciouslly shaming me for not wanting to be controlled - it's hard to exmplain. That is a different story, but I thought that was an important context.

Anyway, two days ago she somehow spied on me, probably went through my phone, and saw a text from an old female friend of mine who wanted to grab a coffee. It's an old friend, and there never was or could be anything romantic or flirting about it. Simply a friend, who wanted to catch up with me.

Next morning she was depressed more than usual, I asked her what was up. She didn't say anything, said she was coming down with a cold. Fair enough. When I walk her to the door she stands there almost crying and says: "You haven't been honest with me, you changed." I asked her repeatedly what she meant, and she finally said she knew I was cheating on her.

I never did. I spend every free minute with her, still courting, still giving her presents, going on dates, etc. I was really feeling good about our relationship progressing from some bad BPD traits that were problems before. So I didn't see that coming.

She simply drove off, and I haven't heard from her in two days. She doesn't answer her phone, doesn't reply to texts. I am worried sick. The only thing she replied to me was when I explained that what she probably saw was a friend of mine wanting to catch up. All she replied was: "I don't believe you anymore". And then nothing.

I don't understand where this lack of trust is coming from. I don't deserve to be accused without the benefit of the doubt of her simply asking me what is going on. I feel like a criminal now.

In fact, she had twice been cheating emotionally while we were together, with her excuse being that I was mean to her, and she wasn't thinking straight, so she contacted her ex. We talked about it, I chose to forgive it, and somehow I rebuilt my trust. So I don't understand how she can be accusing me of the worst thing you can do to someone, while herself being unfaithful emotionally.

I don't know what to do. I tried calling and texting, but I feel like I'm degrading myself for doing it. I feel wrongly accused, and she should be the one making an effort of reaching out to me, but she treats me like crap. Doesn't even answer what I text her. I am petrified she is gonna revenge-cheat, as some people say that these accusations are sometimes premetive before they themselves cheat. What should I do? I feel like an asshole trying to contact her, for her to completely ignore me. I feel so little respect for myself doing that, but on other hand I am worried sick - and somehow I suspect she is doing this deliberately.

Any help?

Also some context: In the past, her bpd rage episodes were all the same: she would compare me to her father, who left her and her mother, when she was a kid, and had multiple affairs. She would say, either drunk or extremely angry: I don't need another person like my father in my life - she would explode whenever in her head some facts didn't add up, either due to bad communication or some misuderstanding. She would jump to the conclusion that I lied and didn't even ask for my take on it to clear things up.

These rages would be the most intense verbal-abuse I could imagine. Using every vurnerable thing I shared with her against me. But somehow they stopped. Is this once again the same thing?
« Last Edit: August 17, 2020, 03:02:45 AM by dindin » Logged
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Brooklyn1974
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« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2020, 01:54:40 PM »

Sorry you are going through this.  I've been there before with my wife and it makes your head spin.  I'm sure there are others that will help you as well but my advice would be to send her one text that says this: "I know you feel hurt and I am sorry you feel that way.  When you are ready to talk, I will be here". 

Then let it go.

The text says to her that you know she feels hurt and that you will be ready to talk to her when she is.  What the text doesn't say is that you are taking responsibility for her accusations.  Please read up on not JADEing and also using SET.

If she revenge cheats then you have to determine if that's a boundary and/or a deal-breaker.  She is still responsible for her behavior, illness or not.  Is she in counseling?  Remember this is an illness, she's not doing these things to hurt you.  I've lived it for 18 years and you really need to have strong shoulders.  At least in my marriage her intensity of feelings are so great it seems like she doesn't have room for mine.

You need to take care of yourself as well, they can easily take someone and make them co-dependent on them.  More than likely she will contact you but you want to be prepared for when that happens. 
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dindin
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« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2020, 04:11:47 AM »

Remember this is an illness, she's not doing these things to hurt you.  I've lived it for 18 years and you really need to have strong shoulders.  At least in my marriage her intensity of feelings are so great it seems like she doesn't have room for mine.

I talked to some people and it seems that she was agonizing over the idea that I was cheating on her for a long time. I had no idea! I was working longer and maybe spending more time and hobbies and such, but we still saw eachother like 4-5 times a week.

Up to this point, I really thought there was something malicious about this whole situation, but now, knowing that she was in a state of complete panick for the last month or so, I really don't know how to feel. I cannot be mad at her because it appears that in her head these were undisputable facts,  it was the reallity of the situation. And she appeared extra nice in that time while with me, I supsect just to prevent my imagined cheating. I just cannot understand it, it must have been agonizing for her. And she never once said anything to me.

I wrote her as much. That if she wants to talk, I'll be there and that it must have been really hard thinking I was cheating. This somehow mellowed her out and at least responded saying it was. But she still doesn't write or anything.

Now I really don't know what to do or think. I really love her and I am devastated that she was struggling with this for so long. I really feel for her. But on the other hand I cannot help but feel abused. The accusations, the rage, the silent treatment. In the end I did nothing wrong, and yet I am left to pick up the the pieces. Be the strong one, and act as if everything is ok - stop the JADE cycle, validate and forgive.

I thought that BPD was a personality disorder, something like NPD, which, at the end of the day, affects your adaptation to live in the real world. But it seems that with BPD they, at least to some extent, live in a completely different reality, like schizophrenics. Where facts don't matter, there is no morality or idea of reciprocity, and just because you feel something means it magically starts to exists. Just as well she could have accused me of stealing from children on my way to work. It would be as prepostrous, but just as likely if she forces herself to believe it.

And the accusations themselves don't bother me that much. As I said if she said that I steal from children, I would just laugh it off. But when someone through accusations, stonewalling, silent treatment, and in the past by emotional cheating, communicates to me that I am unworthy, that I am flawed - it really, really bothers me. It is a type of abuse, isn't it?

So my question is this, as these things became somewhat apparent to me, just wanting a confirmation: does being with someone with BPD mean that I NEED to allow some form of abuse from them? Because what happened is abuse, but the only solution (no JADE, validation, calm, etc.) is to not treat it as abuse. Because to them it wasn't. It just means no fall-out for them, no revisiting of what she done, no fixing. If I demanded those things she would once again rage.  Please tell me, what would you do after a situation like that. Would you try to establish boundries so that it never happens again?

Just a thought: when I was younger I dated a girl who had a sister with a major developmental issues. She was a sweet girl, but sometimes became violent. She would spit on you or bite. I never held it against her, that's just what happens with her. Now come to think of it, is this how you should treat BPD rage? But her ability to inflict violence was just biting and spiting, while a person with BPD can cheat, lie, use every little secret they know against you. You would have to be a titan of self-confidance. And somehow, if this is the right mindset... the idea of being with someone who is so -- sorry if this is an offensive term I'm just going with my analogy -- emotionally-stunted seem icky. What I mean by that is you need to be more of a parent than a partner.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2020, 04:28:12 AM by dindin » Logged
Brooklyn1974
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« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2020, 01:49:26 PM »

Exactly you will find yourself being a parent over being a partner.  You should never accept abuse whether it be physical, emotional or verbal.

BPD is treatable but they have to want the help.  It's a long process and can only be done by a professional.  To tell someone you think they have BPD would be a disaster.  Shame is one of their biggest feelings to face and it often why they will lie or distort the truth to fit their feelings.  You need to really set good boundaries/limits for yourself and express it to them in the correct way and also to follow through on the actions if they do go over these boundaries. 

Yes, you need very strong shoulders.  You need to show love in a different way than you would to a non-BPD.  You also can't expect the same type or level of love back from them, they just not might be capable of it.

Glad you have a good grasp on what BPD is.  I was married for 10 years without knowing BPD even existed, I honestly thought I was crazy.  My wife did outlandish things and would almost have me convinced that it either did not happen or that my view of what happened was incorrect.  It took a psychologist to tell me to look up the traits of BPD.

Unfortunately there is no magic pill to give them.  It's a painful journey for them to take with a professional so that they can start to cope with why they do the things they do.
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dindin
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« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2020, 01:48:40 PM »

Exactly you will find yourself being a parent over being a partner.  You should never accept abuse whether it be physical, emotional or verbal.

BPD is treatable but they have to want the help.  It's a long process and can only be done by a professional.  To tell someone you think they have BPD would be a disaster.  Shame is one of their biggest feelings to face and it often why they will lie or distort the truth to fit their feelings.  You need to really set good boundaries/limits for yourself and express it to them in the correct way and also to follow through on the actions if they do go over these boundaries.  

Yes, you need very strong shoulders.  You need to show love in a different way than you would to a non-BPD.  You also can't expect the same type or level of love back from them, they just not might be capable of it.

Glad you have a good grasp on what BPD is.  I was married for 10 years without knowing BPD even existed, I honestly thought I was crazy.  My wife did outlandish things and would almost have me convinced that it either did not happen or that my view of what happened was incorrect.  It took a psychologist to tell me to look up the traits of BPD.

Unfortunately there is no magic pill to give them.  It's a painful journey for them to take with a professional so that they can start to cope with why they do the things they do.

Thank you for your response.

I tried talking to her, and to the extent that I tried avoiding JADE and focused on the source of the emotion, and not on the percieved facts (I cheated, no doubt about it in her mind) - it seems that the core of the issue is me being more independent lately, and the way I demand and assert that independence.

It' extremely hard for me to avoid JADE-ing, while being accused of such horrible things, but as much as I tried, she seemed to respond well to it.

But the way she talks about me being too different than she is just makes me doubt everything, either this is some form of manipulation, I am really a huge asshole, or I have BPD myself. She talks so conivncingly about her emotions and the assholish things I do, that I think I am losing my mind. So please help me, from the context below please tell me whether I'm an asshole, crazy or manipulated.

We've always been clingy. Spending all time together. I am guilty of that, but maybe not as much as my BPD partner. At her worst, she could cry because I went to the store alone. It was never a problem when she had anything to do, like spending time with her friends, but when alone with me I felt I wasn't allowed to do anything on my own. The severity of this would wax and wane, but it never went away. But since I became a little bit codependent on her and I come from a troubled background that made me into a people-pleaser in relationships, I more often than not didn't want to rock the boat and just spent the majority of my free time with her. It's not like I didn't want to, she is great company and we had loads of adventures together. But for me to assert that I wanted to do things on my own was always problamatic. For example, a couple of weeks ago we went on a three-day trip, where we spent literally 100% time together. On the last day, I said I'm tired, I'm gonna spend 10 minutes on my phone reading alone. She cried and made a fuss as to why I can't be doing that with her in the other room. It was a big argument.

It's not always like that, and the more I communicated that I need some space to read or to rest, the better it got, but it never went away. I feel this is a pattern that ruins our relationship from the start.

She claims that I am too independent for a relationship with her and too demanding of my own free time. I admit, I am an introvert when it comes to relaxing, but I became so accomodating towards her needs, that it literally makes no sense to be calling me that.

I went through last few months to fact-check, that maybe I fell into some routine that is really hurtful or too independent, and here are the results:
- I worked on average less than 152 hours a month - that's the opposite of being too career-oriented. That is less than a full time job. And she accused me of working too much. I work less than her. (Funnily enough it is only a problem when my work schedule conflicts with her, and I'm too tired to spend time together. When I was working from home, she was complaining I was working too little!)

- She says I demand too much time alone. On average, from what I can remember and can glue together from texting, etc. In the last 3 months, I spent every weekend together with her: except one. So that is 92% of weeknds spent with her.

We saw eachother almost everyday on weekdays as well. Maybe one day a week I'm too tired to go to her place or need to catch up on chores. Somewher along the lines I gave up on all hobbies, and haven't once gone out with friends without her - she is invited even if it's my work collegaues!

I felt smothered. And I started to get depressed. I didn't know why, so did some soul-searching and came to the conclusion that it was my fault that I allowed myself to become codependent. This happened exactly when she said her doubts for me appeared and she started to suspect that I am cheating.

So I started to try to get some time for myself, at least a day a week, to just chill, smoke a blunt, relax, listen to music, read, all alone. I started to work on my motorbike again. I communicated that need to her so many times, and it always was an ordeal. "Why? You don't want me to come over" She would come over uninvited, etc. Like the stats above show, I didn't become distant, it was literally an evening a week, a couple of hours after work.

She also said that in a relationship there is no place for this much independance. That I need to inform her of everyone whose female and talking to me. She needs to know where I am, and I can't have any secrets. Is that really reasonable? I understand being somewhat threathened by the opposite sex, but it wasn't like I made evening dates with anyone. I just chatted with an old friend of mine, and made loose plans for a 15-minute coffee during the day. Is it really an asholish thing to do?

I became tired of explaining myself to her. How many times could I explain I want a sliver of time to just unwind, reconnect with hobbies, etc. The more I communicated this to her, the more protective she became of my time with her, complaing how little time we spent together (5-6 days a week!). So I set firmer boundries with her. Whenever she micro-managed my time, sulking about me being tired or occupied with my hobby (in the limited time that I did), or asked for an "explanation" for alomst any activity (going to toilet, wanting to listen to music, read), I would simply say: "I need my time alone and some laid-back atmosphere to relax, if you can't accept that, I am going home." It wasn't hostile as such, but could come across to someone, but that was after 10th time her overstepping the boundry that I communicated calmly before.

If she calmed down, I would stay and just chill with her. But I didn't know how much of an impact it had on her. Me wanting my time, and defending it against becoming too codependent, made her believe I am evil, too independant, and capable of cheating.

What can I do to diffuse this situation. To communicate to her that me not spending 100% time with her, is not a threat to her, but just the opposite, thanks to that she'd get a boyfriend who is rested, interesting and passionate about things. How can she see those things as threats?

Did I really f*ck up by being too independent? I honestly don't think so, but then again I know I probably get frustrated by things easier than most people, so she could get the impression that I am angry with her, and not her controlling behaviour. But then again it only happned when she made impossible demands to meet, or was so controlling that I couldn't stand it: for example, if I was busy for 2-3h at work to the point of not responding to a text, she would write: I see you love your work more than me. No amount of explaining the reality of the situation helped, what seemed to help was communicating that if she can't respect my need to have a job, I won't interact with her. It helped short term, but long term I can see that she was building such huge amounts of resentment...

What can I do to diffuse the situation? Or am I overanalyzing the situation and she is just trying to shift the blame on me, and I'm letting her. I really am losing my mind here.
Am I really


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Brooklyn1974
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« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2020, 02:11:39 PM »

What you asked her for is perfectly normal.  Sounds like she has major insecurity issues with her.  Setting limits/boundaries are for you, so you can get some peace.  Nothing you did drove her to another person. 

Her knowing where you are at all times is not acceptable, in my opinion.  She doesn't own you, you are not a piece of her property.  Her doing this is not showing any sort of respect and shows very controlling behavior.

May I ask how old she is?  It also could be immaturity as well.  This other guy, highly doubt she will be holding onto him for a long time.  What have you been doing for yourself lately?  Has she been in contact with you?
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dindin
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« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2020, 02:34:34 PM »

What you asked her for is perfectly normal.  Sounds like she has major insecurity issues with her.  Setting limits/boundaries are for you, so you can get some peace.  Nothing you did drove her to another person.  

Her knowing where you are at all times is not acceptable, in my opinion.  She doesn't own you, you are not a piece of her property.  Her doing this is not showing any sort of respect and shows very controlling behavior.

May I ask how old she is?  It also could be immaturity as well.  This other guy, highly doubt she will be holding onto him for a long time.  What have you been doing for yourself lately?  Has she been in contact with you?

I am 30 and she is 7 years younger.

Maybe I said it wrong, but "as far as I know" there is no other guy now, just as well could be, because in the past she did reach out to other people when things didn't go well between us - but I don't know that now. I used to be jealous till I was blue in the face, but I somehow gave that up. I don't spy anymore or even think about it. They want to do it, they do it. There's no point in me being distrustful. So as much as it could be a possibility I choose to believe it's not unless I get "non-espionage-born" proof that it's so. Maybe naive considering her history, but my anxiety is so much lower thanks to this. Is this the right attitude when it comes to people with BPD?

She is in semi-contact now, just answering if I write, but only when I avoid andy JADE-ing, when I start she freezes up or repeats her accusations.

We are at a point where she communicated: I want to break up because you cheat, and even if you don't, you are too independant, too aggressive in your boundries, and frustrated to the point that I am afraid to ask you anything.

And I said: I am not going to even bother talking about the accusations, I don't cheat. Though I know how you feel, it must be hard thinking that someone cheats on you. I know I can be brusk at times - but it's just because I cannot live like that anymore, where even how I eat is a matter of discussion and some comments from you, not to mention my time alone, hobbies, or my clothes. I also cannot be with someone who holds those accusations as true and feels that spying is ok - this needs to change. And although I understand your problems, and how my behaviour could lead you to those conclusions, they are not based in reality, and I would appreciate appologies.

To which she responded: You always talk about yourself, can't you see how I feel, and that's the problem. We are too different, you are too independent, and that's not how it goes in a relationship. Also everyone is entitled to their own perspective. And it's rude to tell me what I think is not real.

I am paraphrasing here. I don't understand how she can accuse me of talking about myself, when it's me who was accused and it was me who got the I-don't-want-to-be-with-you for-this-and-that reason bomb in the face. Any ideas? We agreed its best to talk in a couple of days and see how it goes. But I don't feel this is going to be anythin good. I can't get to her. She thinks she is the victim here and I'm the bad guy. There's no conversation it's just complaints. At least I try to justify her feelings, she does nothing like it.

And to answer your question, now I just chill. I took a couple of days off, just reading, listening to music. I can't remember the last time I had a stretch of a few days just for myself and goofing around at home alone. That's how I relax best. Also I noticed that a lot of my frustration came from not being with myself long enough. Ideas in my head need time to be fun or fruitful. Example,  one day I thought about a subject, next day I thought about ordering books about it, next day I ordered them online. I know it's sounds bizzarre, but in the midst of the relationship where I run to accomodate her endless need for my entertainment there was no such things. I didn't have time to let ideas germinate. Now I cant wait for the books to arrive Smiling (click to insert in post)
« Last Edit: August 19, 2020, 02:49:48 PM by dindin » Logged
Brooklyn1974
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« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2020, 02:57:16 PM »

I'm glad you are doing things to help keep yourself calm.  Also glad you are not spying, you are correct to play detective is exhausting and it causes resentment.  To think she is doing you wrong as well with someone else is a disservice to you both.

It is the right attitude not just for BPDs but for everyone.. Though BPDs have a history and at least in my situation she has cheated.  Not to say all BPDs do, each person is different.

Excerpt
And I said: I am not going to even bother talking about the accusations, I don't cheat. Though I know how you feel, it must be hard thinking that someone cheats on you. I know I can be brusk at times - but it's just because I cannot live like that anymore, where even how I eat is a matter of discussion and some comments from you, not to mention my time alone, hobbies, or my clothes. I also cannot be with someone who holds those accusations as true and feels that spying is ok - this needs to change. And although I understand your problems, and how my behaviour could lead you to those conclusions, they are not based in reality, and I would appreciate appologies.

Read up on projecting it might help you with this part.  Also I highly doubt you will get an apology from her, BPDs don't believe they are wrong.  Their feelings are facts.  The more you dispute that the more upset they are going to get.  You are basically asking her to admit that her feelings are wrong when you ask for an apology.

Sounds like you might need to continue with the boundaries/limitations.  Don't throw them all on her at once.  One at a time, space them apart which could be weeks/months in between.  BPDs don't like limits but they are set for you, not them.

You won't "get to her".  That's not your role.  Your role is to SET and not JADE.  It's very difficult and often the non-BPD will feel like their feelings are not being met, that is why you must take extremely good care of yourself.  She is also only 23 years old so she is fairly young and doesn't have a good grasp on long term relationships.

When you talk to her I would keep it light.  Don't talk about boundaries or anything related to the relationship.  Remember why you fell in love with her the first place and focus on that. 
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dindin
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« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2020, 03:15:07 PM »


Sounds like you might need to continue with the boundaries/limitations.  Don't throw them all on her at once.  One at a time, space them apart which could be weeks/months in between.  BPDs don't like limits but they are set for you, not them.

You won't "get to her".  That's not your role.  Your role is to SET and not JADE.  It's very difficult and often the non-BPD will feel like their feelings are not being met

Thanks a lot. I almost accepted that my feelings are not gonna be heard the way it would happen in a normal relationship. I came to terms with that.

But how would you recommend I do set boundries in this case, if this relationship continues. I doubt it will, but for the sake of learning:

I am made to be a monster for setting any. Literally. How can I expect a day or two for myself if it means I don't love her and am an asshole? How would I set a boundry without her building resentment like she did before? Practically, there is hell to pay for even the smallest one. I admit I am a brusk and somehow unappologetic when I do it - or at least she claims I am, I could work on that, but even if it's a small thing like: please don't comment on how I dress, it's none of your business. She would go ok, and immediately after that: "sometimes I'm scared of sayinig anything, I'm too afraid and nervous because everything I do is somehow wrong." Even if I don't continue, no JADE-ing etc, said my thing and moved on, she, as if, makes a mental note of that interaction, and holds it against me forever. And often she says: "I'm entitled to my opinion, I don't like these clothes, and I'm entitled to say it, you're trying to control me with this anger. Don't be so sensitive."

Also, say this relationship continues, how do you go on and fix what was wrong the first time. If she still thinks I'm in the wrong, she'd be passive aggressive, distant, etc. as punishment for what an asshole I am - I know this happened before. And I couldn't take it, knowing I did nothing wrong. Once there was a huge argument and she would punish me with no physical contact for almost a month. If I stated my boundry: "no physical contact is a form of punishment that is completely undeserved", she basically went: "but you were a dick to me, don't expect me to be nice to you so soon, I need to process is", but the problem is, I wasn't an asshole. It was all her just painting me black. How do you deal with that practically?

Can I ever say to her: "this behaviour needs to stop", if it really needs to stop for the sake of my sanity? But if I did that, she would go: see, you're doing it again!
« Last Edit: August 19, 2020, 03:22:09 PM by dindin » Logged
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« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2020, 05:07:45 AM »

bpd is not about being crazy or psychotic. its a personality style. it is as rational as you or i, just different. more sensitive. more feelings oriented. less direct and more direct at the same time.  

id be willing to bet you a thousand dollars that this is about more than her suspicion that you are cheating. people with bpd traits, and other generally insecure people, people with low self esteem, are prone to that line of thinking. it tends to be a huge pain in the ass, but it doesnt tend to be the catalyst for a final breakup.

Excerpt
"You haven't been honest with me, you changed."

She claims that I am too independent for a relationship with her and too demanding of my own free time. I admit, I am an introvert when it comes to relaxing, but I became so accomodating towards her needs, that it literally makes no sense to be calling me that.

her words suggest that she felt you became distant, and she felt shut out.

so she came upon the text, and she probably had a biblical reaction, but ultimately, it more likely just reaffirmed her fears: "hes moving on without me".

dont get me wrong. there is a great deal in your story that i completely relate to. my ex saw me nearly every day, sometimes for weeks on end, as i fought for my space, and she still complained. it wasnt the point.

you were conflicted. you wanted the best parts of the relationship. when it was overbearing (as these relationships will be), you wanted far away (and that probably worked for you at times).

shes a highly sensitive person. she can feel that.

youre hurting now because that wasnt at all what you meant to communicate, but in your hurt, do consider it. people with bpd traits can be clingy and needy, and i know i needed more space, more privacy, than my partner preferred. you may have competing values and ideals, and things worked until they didnt. thats what shes telling you.

getting back together entails considering what is going to radically change, and how...whether there is a workable middle ground.  

have you read this: https://www.bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries
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