Successful boundary setting with MIL Part 6

[Methuen]

I pushed another conversation last night. More than getting a ferret or not, I've been hurt about the cold way he communicated. He's never done that before. I shared how I felt, and he was angry, but he listened and apologized. I had to push a bit but he finally opened up about why he wants one so badly: he shares everything he owns with others and he just wants something for himself. (He's paid off 30,000 in debt over the past 5 years and spends hardly any money on himself.) I asked why he didn't share any of that before, he said it's really hard for him to voice what he wants and why. I thanked him for sharing and told him that I care about what he wants, and I'll support him. He seemed surprised and went from being really upset to really calm

 Beautiful.  You used skills to get him to open up. This sounds like a turning point. A good validating question: "honey why is that?" (when he says its hard for him to voice what he wants and why).  Of course you won't get an answer, but it's about planting seeds right? 

This realization is important because he could well use this technique to bully me again. Even if he was raised by a BPD mother who conditioned him, I don't need to feel guilty or bad about saying no, or always giving in just so that he can feel some agency. The fact that he feels fearful and anxious is ultimately his responsibility to address, not mine to accommodate.

So I have an everpresent BPD MIL and a ferret I don't want. Yay for me. BPD and enmeshment makes a mess, y'all.

[livednlearned]

When he brought her up it was always in the context of "I've had to give up time with her."

There was one point where he was talking about people that drain him

"In his unconscious - and sometimes conscious - mind, a mother enmeshed man is representing his mother's interests while his own have become secondary.

he was afraid of voicing his needs, and he was afraid of being turned down

Hard to be H 

I guess the question is how can he meet you halfway so you aren't treated like the enemy when he wants something. "I gave you 10 things so now you owe me 1" or "I gave 100 things to everyone else so now I get 1 thing for me" seems like a recipe for how MIL gets moved in.

he could well use this technique to bully me again. Even if he was raised by a BPD mother who conditioned him, I don't need to feel guilty or bad about saying no, or always giving in just so that he can feel some agency. The fact that he feels fearful and anxious is ultimately his responsibility to address, not mine to accommodate.

That's true.

By the time he's bullying, it's so late to fix, though. At least if you want to avoid the wedge.

How does he receive TLC from you? My H is so accustomed to focus on others' needs at the expense of his own. Is yours the same way? I'm curious how your H responds when you try to help him focus on what he wants.

[pursuingJoy]

Is there an acronym for "Cat with Personality Disorder" -- cwPD? This one rolls over on her back and seductively invites you to pet her soft, white belly. Then she sinks her claws and teeth into your flesh, and you leave the room dripping blood.

lolll cwPD    I've had and known some cool cats, but I've also known some like this. Have you ever watched My Cat From Hell?

I guess the question is how can he meet you halfway so you aren't treated like the enemy when he wants something. "I gave you 10 things so now you owe me 1" or "I gave 100 things to everyone else so now I get 1 thing for me" seems like a recipe for how MIL gets moved in.
 

I've worked hard to be true to me, but also be sensitive to and responsive to his needs, whether he wants time with me, time to go hunting, play softball or kickball or watch football or hang out with his friends. I think the conclusion I'm coming to is that much of this might be out of my control. My existence creates a disloyalty bind and creates so much discomfort for him/them.

I did write out the steps I will take if he moves her in. I'm debating whether/when to share it with him...it is important to communicate boundaries and consequences, but I'm also not wanting to escalate for the sake of escalating. Maybe it's a timing thing.

How does he receive TLC from you? My H is so accustomed to focus on others' needs at the expense of his own. Is yours the same way?

Most of the time, but not to the extreme. He actively takes care of himself and does what he wants. He always loves and accepts any kind of attention, physical affection, quality time and acts of service. Last week I mentioned that he hasn't been able to do the things he loves lately. That hadn't occurred to him, and the fact that I noticed meant a lot to him. He wants me to baby him (which, the more I learn about his dysfunctional relating to his mom, is taking on a weirdness I'm having to grapple with). He accepts and appreciates small gifts, like his favorite creamer or a drink I know he likes, but around his birthday, he will actively, vehemently, tell me not to get him anything. He will buy small gifts for himself and he goes out to eat.

He has been focused on paying off debt so doesn't spend a lot on anything for himself, but also, that's debt he built up before he met me. I'm thankful, but also realizing that I feel I owe him something, when I don't. In fact, I'm covering all of his expenses so he can pay it off. 

I'm curious about the question you asked hubby...it looked like you were driving for something specific or was the goal to "get rid" of the MIL convo. 

At the moment, I was concerned my silence to this repeated phrase would be invalidating the invalid. He was expressing resentment towards me for losing time with MIL, when in reality, the impetus for boundaries was his mother's behavior, and his own refusal to address their lack of boundaries.

A good validating question: "honey why is that?" (when he says its hard for him to voice what he wants and why).  Of course you won't get an answer, but it's about planting seeds right?

Thanks M. I did ask why, and he said he didn't know. Shrug. You're right. Planting seeds is something.
 

[livednlearned]

I think the conclusion I'm coming to is that much of this might be out of my control. My existence creates a disloyalty bind and creates so much discomfort for him/them.

I remember reading something written by a woman diagnosed with BPD who was also in treatment. Her advice to people living with and loving someone with BPD was to take care of yourself at all costs. It was the biggest eye opener to hear that coming from someone who admitted to wreaking havoc in relationships. Her point was, "Don't get sucked into this whirlpool with me. We can't both be in here getting maytagged." I get the sense that you've come to this insight on your own when it comes to him/them  

I did write out the steps I will take if he moves her in.

It's such a bummer to have this hanging over your head, PJ.

When it comes down to the big stuff, my instinct is to not overshare. I feel like one of us has to stay in wisemind and historically when we address things head on that doesn't work out so well.

But I also have opportunities to lightly outline my boundaries as we design and build this house. A few days ago H said, "We can use the second bedroom as your office and have a pullout couch in there for when guests come. It'll be a few days at the most when someone stays with us."

His suggestions often come down to solutions that diminish boundaries (at my expense) and mine are more likely to increase boundaries (at his expense). Even though we are superficially talking about square footage, what is really being discussed is how H feels about telling SD23 she can't stay with us. I handle this by proposing solutions that take into consideration what he isn't saying, while also advocating for my boundary.

I'm curious about your steps and whether they are ultimatums?

He was expressing resentment towards me for losing time with MIL, when in reality, the impetus for boundaries was his mother's behavior, and his own refusal to address their lack of boundaries

So wise that you caught that.

[pursuingJoy]

I remember reading something written by a woman diagnosed with BPD who was also in treatment. Her advice to people living with and loving someone with BPD was to take care of yourself at all costs. It was the biggest eye opener to hear that coming from someone who admitted to wreaking havoc in relationships. Her point was, "Don't get sucked into this whirlpool with me. We can't both be in here getting maytagged." I get the sense that you've come to this insight on your own when it comes to him/them  

This made me tear up. I needed to hear this right now. Thank you.

When it comes down to the big stuff, my instinct is to not overshare. I feel like one of us has to stay in wisemind and historically when we address things head on that doesn't work out so well.

Fair. I also know that I'm fearful at the moment, and it's not a good idea to knee-jerk share out of fear.

Even though we are superficially talking about square footage, what is really being discussed is how H feels about telling SD23 she can't stay with us.

I'm curious about your steps and whether they are ultimatums?

I know the roundabout conversations all too well.  I've also changed or veered away from building plans because they looked too convenient.

Moving her in with us without my consent would probably take an emergency situation and ensuing panic. Considering that's the most likely scenario, I want to start talking to him about if/then's. If she can't drive, needs groceries delivered, breaks her leg, what are the options? If I do it right, he might even feel supported. I found a "list of things to think about as your parents are aging" that I might share.

He has been extremely averse to talking about plans for his mom in the past - "we'll cross that bridge when we come to it." I can't tell if it's because I'm butting in to their life, he's not ready to accept it, or they're still assuming/hoping that she'll move in with us.

What I wrote down were ultimatums, steps I will take if he crosses that line. He's accused me of not communicating clearly in the past (ie, even though I've told him numerous times how much I don't want a ferret, he says, "I had no idea you'd get THIS upset.") so part of me does think he needs to understand what's at stake. I guess I can wait until it actually happens.

I do not believe that sharing what I wrote down will make a difference in whatever decision he might make. I just don't want to be accused of not communicating clearly

[LunaJoy]

Hi PJ, sorry you have been going through such an awful time.  I haven’t got much to say apart from wishing you well, and how grimly comedic a triangulation with a ferret is. I was really moved that you got to the root of your husband wanting something for himself, and I wondered how it would be if he picked a more attractive pet, like a puppy?  Then you would have your own dog each, and maybe MIL would see your house as a less attractive home with two dogs.