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jaysea22

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« on: September 13, 2020, 10:06:43 AM »

Ok so I will try and keep things brief, but basically I am coming here for advice on how to navigate a complicated relationship which has become even more complicated with a new diagnosis of BPD.

One of my questions is - I knew this person a few years ago and we were able to communicate normally and on a pretty regular basis.  Communication was never a problem for us.  I know this person had BPD then it just wasnt diagnosed.  Fast forward to today and we barely communicate at all.  I'm always told "I'm going through a lot", "You don't understand how hard this is for me", etc., etc.  My question is if we never had a problem communicating before when she definitely had BPD then why all of a sudden is it so hard to talk after a diagnosis?  I will text her in the morning and wont hear from her until late afternoon or evening.  It makes me feel like crap like she could care less about communicating with me and when I express that to her I am told I am selfish or the BPD is brought up like its an explanation for ignoring me for days.  If the main thing behind BPD is fear of abandonment why would ignoring their SO be something they are ok with?  Especially if they know it really upsets them?  I just don't get it.

Which brings me to my next point.  I have literally sacrificed so much of my own mental health just to make sure she was ok.  I continually give her space when I need interaction just so things are easier for her.  I have done a lot just to try and make her days easier at the dispense of my own needs.  I always ask what is best for her, what we can do to make things easier, how we can move forward honoring what we both need (I need communication and she seems to not be able to handle communication).  I have literally done everything with her in mind.  Always her feelings above my own.  And to be called selfish was a huge slap in the face.  I am completely hurt by this and I know she may just be projecting and turning the blame on me to make herself feel better but how do you have a conversation that explains any kind of wrong doing on their part if this is how the conversation goes?  Or is there no way to show someone with BPD that what they are doing is hurtful.  I guess what I am asking is how do you navigate the conversation to explain you are hurt without being called selfish.  Its almost as if I am not allowed to have feelings or be upset about anything because "I always make it about me".  The fact that she called me selfish completely shocked me to be honest.  I mean she completely forgot my birthday and I never said anything.  And a few days later I sent flowers to HER house because she said she was feeling horrible and I just wanted to cheer her up.  I mean I've literally done everything with her in mind and I'm called selfish?

I told her how I was feeling and basically got punished for it (I'm getting the silent treatment because she needs to process what I told her).  I'm basically supposed to just leave her alone until she contacts me again.  Again when shes ready...how is that not selfish?  Again its about what she needs.  Never meeting in the middle to meet both needs.

Does it ever get easier?  Is a relationship with someone with BPD possible or is it always like this?  She is going to therapy for this I will say that, but then on the day she goes I won't hear from her at all because of how intense it is.  I just don't get why it is so hard to communicate.
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« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2020, 11:52:51 PM »

Fast forward to today and we barely communicate at all.  I'm always told "I'm going through a lot", "You don't understand how hard this is for me", etc., etc.  My question is if we never had a problem communicating before when she definitely had BPD then why all of a sudden is it so hard to talk after a diagnosis?  I will text her in the morning and wont hear from her until late afternoon or evening.  It makes me feel like crap like she could care less about communicating with me and when I express that to her I am told I am selfish or the BPD is brought up like its an explanation for ignoring me for days.

shes telling you that she needs space.

i suspect that there was a time in your relationship that there was very little space. maybe you talked endlessly, all day long, about everything, and with ease.

and then at some point, maybe that settled down.

and that never feels good.

ive had it happen in many relationships, some romantic, some not. one thing i have found is that the harder i push to return to that kind of thing, the more i ultimately push them away.

likewise, i have been the person pulling away, and the more a person pushed to reconnect, the more i withdrew.

one thing i can say is that its difficult to read the other persons intention. ive had people get angry with me for a lack of communication. it wasnt because i didnt care.

ultimately, i dont think youre going to achieve anything by trying to get her see your point of view, or arguing about who is being fair or reasonable. i think youll achieve a lot more by adjusting your expectations, adjusting your view of the relationship, and by acknowledging your limits, and hers.

what do you think?
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Jay763

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« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2020, 04:32:36 AM »

Hi,

What I know is you must keep the communication soo simple. I found my SO was thrown for a mental loop (literally) when I used basic analogies. He would feel caught "in a maze" . But when I did scale it back, he then would attach negative connotations to everything I would say. I'm positive and I would more often than not get attacked because of why I would say that kind of a thing. I am not sure the cause of why BPDs are difficult to communicate with; why words are easily misconstrued. This has been our number one fight. Major fights.

So my advice is keep it as simple as can be and maybe that will work for you.
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jaysea22

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« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2020, 09:52:23 AM »

Hi,

What I know is you must keep the communication soo simple. I found my SO was thrown for a mental loop (literally) when I used basic analogies. He would feel caught "in a maze" . But when I did scale it back, he then would attach negative connotations to everything I would say. I'm positive and I would more often than not get attacked because of why I would say that kind of a thing. I am not sure the cause of why BPDs are difficult to communicate with; why words are easily misconstrued. This has been our number one fight. Major fights.

So my advice is keep it as simple as can be and maybe that will work for you.

It's come to the point where we only talk if she has reached out.  If I'm the one reaching out we don't talk so I am giving her space it is to the point where we will go days without talking and I keep it simple when she does reach out.  Then she tells me she reaches out and she doesn't get the response shes hoping for and she needs more from me.  So I am kind of at a loss as to what to do.  It's almost damned if I do damned if I dont.  Even the times she initiates conversation and it seems like she is ready to talk it never goes anywhere.  It's a hey how are you and then I dont hear from her the rest of the day.
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jaysea22

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« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2020, 09:54:29 AM »

She recently told me that shes moving out of state...out of the blue so randomly.  I'm wondering if this is typical behavior of someone with BPD.  It's almost as if shes running away.  Then when I tried to talk about what that meant for us she shut me out and said she needs time to process it...
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jaysea22

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« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2020, 09:58:10 AM »

Excerpt
ultimately, i dont think youre going to achieve anything by trying to get her see your point of view, or arguing about who is being fair or reasonable. i think youll achieve a lot more by adjusting your expectations, adjusting your view of the relationship, and by acknowledging your limits, and hers.

what do you think?

This makes sense and I have adjusted considerably.  I leave the communication in her hands since she needs space.  Even when she reaches out tho and it seems like shes ready to talk a little bit I never hear from her so it's just confusing.  It seems like a long game of push and pull.
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« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2020, 03:41:44 AM »

Excerpt
Then she tells me she reaches out and she doesn't get the response shes hoping for and she needs more from me.

can you tell us more about this? whats being said when this happens?

does she give any indication as to the response shes hoping for or what she needs from you?

Excerpt
This makes sense and I have adjusted considerably.  I leave the communication in her hands since she needs space.  Even when she reaches out tho and it seems like shes ready to talk a little bit I never hear from her so it's just confusing.  It seems like a long game of push and pull.

im reading between the lines a bit, so correct me if im wrong.

there may be a tendency on your end, when she does reach out, to come on strong in some way. maybe youre excited, or maybe youre resentful, or maybe youre apprehensive, or maybe youre confused. its hard to say, but regardless, theres a possibility that she can pick up on it.
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jaysea22

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« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2020, 05:12:32 AM »

Excerpt
can you tell us more about this? whats being said when this happens?

does she give any indication as to the response shes hoping for or what she needs from you?

im reading between the lines a bit, so correct me if im wrong.

there may be a tendency on your end, when she does reach out, to come on strong in some way. maybe youre excited, or maybe youre resentful, or maybe youre apprehensive, or maybe youre confused. its hard to say, but regardless, theres a possibility that she can pick up on it.

Honestly it’s hard to know what she means by this. Our conversations lately don’t consist of much. They are nothing substantial. The most we get out is a “hey” and then a “how are you?” This exchange of 4 text messages at most will stretch the length of the day if not stretching into the next day. When I talk to her about our communication or lack there of I remember one time I said “I’m practically begging you to talk to me” she responded with if anything im the one begging you. Which I couldn’t really understand because it’s always me waiting for a response.

As for your second question I will admit at times She can probably pick up on my frustration. Which I am trying to work on. It just gets extremely frustrating when it takes an entire day to respond to a “good morning” text. I told her that it’s fine if she has days where she doesn’t feel like talking. I would rather get a text that says hey I’m not really talkative today I’ll check in with you later or just something instead of radio silence for 33 hours. She said she would work on responding more and that I needed to work on being patient if it seemed like she was taking a while to respond. Which I have if she doesn’t answer I don’t push it. But the length in between us talking has just gotten longer and longer to the point where it might be 3 days before I get a reply.

I’m just trying to learn the workings behind it all. Is this typical? I’m trying to decipher between what is BPD behavior and what isn’t.

As for my question above about the moving...is that normal?
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« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2020, 05:39:04 AM »

that helps, a lot.

what is the relationship status? i know you described each other as significant others.

are the two you together, broken up, trying to repair, friends for now?
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jaysea22

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« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2020, 07:40:04 AM »

that helps, a lot.

what is the relationship status? i know you described each other as significant others.

are the two you together, broken up, trying to repair, friends for now?

We are broken up but trying to repair at her request. Meaning it was her initiating wanting to work things out and see where it goes. So I was a little thrown off by her sudden announcement that she was moving. It makes me feel like she’s just giving up.
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« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2020, 02:13:06 AM »

Excerpt
I’m just trying to learn the workings behind it all. Is this typical? I’m trying to decipher between what is BPD behavior and what isn’t.

generally speaking, BPD behavior is behavior that we all engage in, just more extreme. sometimes, not necessarily even more extreme.

Excerpt
one time I said “I’m practically begging you to talk to me” she responded with if anything im the one begging you.

avoid begging or pleading, particularly if you are trying to reverse a breakup. it can look desperate or needy, or it can look obligatory.

if she says "im the one begging you", then this is about more than that, more about a communication breakdown, and two people talking at each other with neither feeling heard, and possibly "saying it louder in order to be heard".

Excerpt
It just gets extremely frustrating when it takes an entire day to respond to a “good morning” text.

this is my own personal take: an advanced relationship that involves "good morning" texts is in the doldrums. fun at first, obligatory before too long. i, personally, put off texts that feel obligatory, whether they be from a friend, or romantic partner. she may be reflecting that.

more than that, it could mean anything; its hard to tell. she could be passively aggressively avoiding you. she could be busy, and out of the routine excitement of waking up and texting each other. it could be her texting etiquette, and perhaps she generally takes a longer time to respond to texts.

regardless, dont keep trying what isnt working. the reality may be that what was once an exciting ritual between the two of you is now stagnant, and something more refreshing and organic (not forced) and less routine might fare better. if the two of you are broken up trying to repair, this is likely.

whats the status on her moving?

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« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2020, 08:36:32 AM »

Just my opinion in this.  What boundaries/limitations are you putting in for yourself?  You mentioned that you have given up in a sense your mental well-being for her.  IMO that's very dangerous.  Been married 16 yrs to my BPD wife and she just left but like your gf she continues to keep herself in the picture.

In my experience with BPD it gets really bad in 'waves'.  I could almost narrow it down to about every 3-4 months where my wife would have extreme dysregulations and has done some very crazy and hurtful things.  I would suggest you looking at the bigger picture (ie. your life with her) if you want to continue a relationship with her.  Is she in counseling?  Are you?  Remember that BPDs lack empathy or at least the ability to show it in the correct way.  You won't be able to get her to 'see the light' or as my daughter says 'when is mom going to snap out of it?'.  The more you try, the more they will push back.  That's what a counselor is for, to let them do their magic.

Being with a BPD is basically having total acceptance even though you disagree with their behavior/decisions.  You are walking on eggshells since you don't know when the next situation will develop, when the next fire you will have to help put out.  You need to be very well grounded and centered and not take what they say or do personally.  They don't respond to emotions like you and I do.

That being said next time you talk to her and whatever she may tell you, try just using the words 'I understand'.  Don't JADE.  Please read the lessons on here, they do work, however these lessons are for you, not to fix her.  Realize that this is a mental illness and it's something that will always be with her.  Stay strong and keep yourself number one priority.
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jaysea22

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« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2020, 10:18:39 PM »

Excerpt
avoid begging or pleading, particularly if you are trying to reverse a breakup. it can look desperate or needy, or it can look obligatory.

whats the status on her moving?

I wasn't actually begging it was more like a figure of speech and it was in the very beginning before I knew what this all was.  If she doesn't respond now I just leave it alone.

Honestly I don't know the status of her moving as far as I know she's still going, but we don't talk.  Like I said it is almost impossible to get a conversation out of her and we barely see each other anymore.  We were supposed to see each other today and she blew me off (1st time that's happened so it really sucks).  And no real explanation as to why (I mean I really shouldn't be surprised anymore).  It's hard to tell what is BPD and what is just someone being kinda shi**y.  Like is this the illness or I'm just too dumb to see the signs?  It's hard not to know if this is BPD or I'm being manipulated.  I don't really know what to do because I'm at a breaking point - I can't do this anymore - not see her not talk to her, but I also feel bad.  I really really do care about her and I know that no matter what I say at this point it's going to look like I'm abandoning her and I don't care.  (That and she'll call me selfish again)
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« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2020, 02:49:38 AM »

trying to distinguish between "whats the illness" and "what is just her" can trip you up.

i dont mean to suggest that she is the illness, or that everything she says and does is about it. it isnt.

i do mean to suggest that bpd is a personality style, and in her case, one built over some decades. by and large, she is who she is, she is who shes going to be. that is both the exuberant person that you met, and the distant person you know now. the question before you is whether thats something you can work with...knowing that in the best of circumstances, it will be a challenge.

in order to recover this, if its possible to do so, its going to take some work, and patience, and it wont happen over night. its a long game of baby steps.

what happened when she blew you off? how did you react?
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jaysea22

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« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2020, 10:19:16 AM »

Excerpt
by and large, she is who she is, she is who shes going to be. that is both the exuberant person that you met, and the distant person you know now. the question before you is whether thats something you can work with...knowing that in the best of circumstances, it will be a challenge.

I guess my biggest dilemma is she was the same person from when I met her right up until her diagnosis.  Even the girl who asked me for another chance and said she wanted to work on this relationship it was all the same person - she was acting the same - we were communicating normally.  The only real difference I could notice was her temper was very very short, but other than that she was the same. Then she got the diagnosis and it's like everything broke.  She can't communicate anymore and says its because of BPD.  Which I'm finding hard to believe.  It's almost as if we were fine on Monday and Tuesday she got the diagnosis and her communication skills just completely vanished.  That doesn't make much sense.  It didn't come in waves it was we were fine, then we weren't.  It's like you can break the relationship down into before diagnosis and then after the diagnosis.  And now everything that comes up she just brings it back to BPD.  She doesn't respond to me when we are apart and tells me its because communication is so hard for her and it takes everything in her to respond and "break that cycle".  Yet if we are together and her phone goes off she responds immediately.  So it's hard to not take it personal.


Excerpt
what happened when she blew you off? how did you react?

She said she would let me know what time we were going to get together because she was still at an appointment (not BPD related).  When I didn't hear from her for over 3 hours I asked what was going on and she responded saying she was miserable that's what was going on.  Then I asked what happened and she gave me some weird story about her doctors appointment and how she was upset.  I said I was sorry and she said she really hates her life right now.  What she was telling me and her reaction didn't really make much sense so I asked a clarifying question about what was upsetting her based on what she told me bc her text was confusing and she never responded.  Either she's completely over reacting based on the story she gave me or she just came up with an excuse because she didn't want to see me.  She was the one who wanted to get together and yet I didn't hear from her all day.  I had to text her to see if we were still doing something.  I really feel like she had no intentions of seeing me because she would have reached out but she didn't. 
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« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2020, 04:34:34 AM »

make no mistake...a diagnosis of BPD can be life changing.

for starters, theres an enormous amount of stigma around it. if shes done any reading on the internet about it, shes come across it.

and that could have any number of complications.

she could think you judge her. she could judge you. she could be grasping the recovery path ahead of her, and its overwhelming. she could be facing things in therapy that are overwhelming. if you check out the board for children of someone with bpd, its an enormous hill to climb. its also not uncommon for someone recently diagnosed to sort of over lean on the diagnosis - chock everything up to it.

the reality is, she can see you as an ally in the process, or an enemy of it.
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« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2020, 10:44:08 AM »

She recently told me that shes moving out of state...out of the blue so randomly.  I'm wondering if this is typical behavior of someone with BPD.  It's almost as if shes running away.  Then when I tried to talk about what that meant for us she shut me out and said she needs time to process it...
My ex did this back in july we broke up at the end of August but out of the blue in July she told me she was moving out of state too, part of me was not surprised because her daughter moved out of state to a year ago. She didn't actually go though with it she just told me then went into a depression or was starting in one prior to telling me, after that she seemed to be ok maybe little not herself bit then went into a deep depression in mid August. That is when our relationship spiraled out of control and ended.
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