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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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Author Topic: guilt confussion - She and the kids are leaving  (Read 231 times)
JoeBPD81
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« on: September 29, 2020, 06:38:37 AM »

Long time without posting...

I've been in a RS with a pwBPD for 6 years and her 2 sons 9 & 14 now. The kids show all kinds of traits too.

I've been here int the forum countless times about they leaving me. She told me, even before moving in with me that she didn't want to live with me. And she's been close to leaving many times. But she never did. The kids want to stay, they like me, and they like having access to my computers/videogames and so on.

I love her, and I thikn she loves me in some way, she tells me she does... But she also hates me. She blames herself for all the things that don't work, but at the same time, she lists all my flaws... She never cheated, or spent my money, she hit me once in rage... But mostly I feel she complains all the time, she tells me she hates me or shows me the middle finger when I say "good morning" even if the last time she saw me she was kind.

It's been about 18 months without sex, and many months before that isolated time. Apart from that, phisical contact is scarce. Rarelly she allows me to touch her with afection, and she almost never touches me (for a hug, or a kiss, or taking my hand...). So it's been a while since we were a real couple.

Still, the kids think I'm their dad (they know I'm not the biological one) and think we are a couple. And they've been living and going on hollydays with me, and they met my family... All for 5 years and before that, they spent all the  weekends in my house.

This time... She's been calling a social worker to find some place for her and the kids to live. She has no job, nor savings, and her family wasn't helping her in the 1st place and that's why we moved in together so soon.

I've been wearing out, and now I'm crushed. I don't have hope for us. But I love her. And I don't want to see them homeless. Whatever pain I might go into... Her situation is way worse. I know I didn't kick them out, but I still feel like a villain, and I'm disgusted about getting comforted about that, about people telling me "you did your best". I couldn't stop crying yesterday, and she was kind. And it kills me, and it kills me that she reassures me she's going as fast as she can about leaving the house, apologizing...

I begged her to stay so many times, and things don't go better. She's not going to therapy nor taking her meds. We disagree about treating and educating the kids, so I'm out of their education. She never told me she wanted "us" to work, only that she has no other place to go. I think I'm enabling them, and teaching them they can treat me badly.  I don't see any good coming out of our living together, not anymore. Still...
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JNChell
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« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2020, 07:56:51 PM »

This sounds really tough, man. Virtual hug (click to insert in post) You know, sometimes things just don’t work out. Will you  be able to see the boys after all is said and done? Would you like to? Will mom allow that? It doesn’t sound like a hostile situation. How do you feel? Is there any hope at all? Couples therapy?
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JoeBPD81
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« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2020, 03:13:20 AM »

Thanks for answering.

It is tough, because I don't want them to leave, but I know we hurt each other, and our home dynamics are harmful to everyone involved. It really doesn't matter who's to blame.

But I would have to be a bad person to feel OK with this. They leave and I'm "free", right? They still have the same problems, less help and no home. How can I be happy with that? How can I want to be happy with that?

She always said I could see the kids. She might change her mind, I don't know.

Will I want to? That's not easy... Now it feels it will hurt a lot. Anything that will remind me of her will hurt. I can't help but think they are a big cause for our failure, I know it's peety and wrong. But having them always fight and bully, and humilliate each other, and confront everything everyday, and insult and push their mother... Makes our home a war zone. You grow fond of kids that come into your life when you see they have a good heart, I haven't seen that in all these years. I never had a promise of a future, so I never knew what my involvement with the kids should be. She always told me she was about to leave.

My door is open, and if it is good for them, I'll see them. I hope they mature and I can see them growing into good people. Because I really fear for them ending badly, due to their own insticts and troubles.

There is hope they won't find anywhere to go and stay longer. But there's no hope for us, unless she wants to and starts making changes. Show up for therapy, take the meds... Couple's therapy would be an option if she wanted to be a couple.

I guess that when they actually leave, things would feel different. But they still live with me, I still take them to school in the morning and we are "staying at home" together. I thik she will hate me for a reason, now. We don't know how to talk to one another in this situation.

I offered help, or to do anything that would make her feel better, and she told me that hurt, and that they are not my social project. That she didn't ask for anything.

We don't speak the same language, it seems. I'm afraid to say anything because she never understands it in the same meaning I intend to. Then my silence is interpreted too, and I'm doomed anyway.

How can I be good to them when we are in the process of separating because we make each other unhappy?



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JNChell
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« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2020, 04:59:29 PM »

Man, lose that hope. She will never change. She won’t change for you no matter what you do. Do you understand that? If you ever let her back in to your life, it will be much worse and quickly. Yeah, the kids are out of the equation as well. You’ve got to cut the whole thing off, man.

Consider your emotions now. How bad do you feel? Do you ever want to feel worse than you do right now? If you do......

People with experience are telling you to cut it off once and for all.

This isn’t your thing. It doesn’t work for you. Start looking out for yourself.

She’s a master manipulator. Don’t worry about her or the kids. She’ll have something in place very soon.
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JoeBPD81
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« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2020, 03:11:08 AM »

Hi, thanks again.

It's not that I hope they will stay as it is. I'm confused because it's too painful to let them go. I can't detach myself from their future, and think it's not my problem how much trouble they are going to go into. I don't know how to do that. I'm in a family of 4, I can't be well if in the same decision the other 3 are gonna lose a lot.

But mostly, irrationally, I miss her already.

In any case, I wonder what took you from "couples therapy?" to "Run, man, run!"

The situation is worse because our city is confined, they migh have left for good this last summer if it wasn't for the pandemic. The pandemic also forced us to spend too much time together, nothing to distract us from how wrong things are.

This is like ripping off a band aid in the slowest possible way.

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dindin
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« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2020, 04:28:41 AM »

In any case, I wonder what took you from "couples therapy?" to "Run, man, run!"

I know this question isn't for me. But man, have I suffered through that. I was really adamant about getting my partner to couples therapy, and I managed to do it several times. But after so many attempts, I felt like all I was doing was building up frustration and wasting money.

They are incapable of relating. They are incapable of understanding. You think you get them to work on a problem, but that requires a base of good will and basic emotional skills. They don't have that. It might appear like they are there with you, talking about problems, but the sad reality of the situation is that: they are incapable of taking on board what is being said. I know this is a harsh comparison, so take it for what it is, but this is like taking a kid with severe mental deficit and deluding yourself that with enough love, empathy and hard work, he's gonna be good at math...

What is worse is, if you are a helper type, you will start to think that this is somehow your fault!

When you see through that: that is when you go from wanting to help the rs in therapy to running.

They need to go to extensive therapy on their own, for their own sake. You being there, loving them, is actually harmful for their recovery, if it ever comes.

They cannot change for you, and because of that it is the least of your responsibilities in life. Let them be. You have nothing to say, nothing to do, you cannot affect the outcome, because ultimately it won't matter.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2020, 04:39:18 AM by dindin » Logged
JoeBPD81
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« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2020, 06:44:36 AM »

I get what you mean.

My problem is that I provide a roof over their heads and food in their plates. To accept that I'm not part of the solution, the recovery, also means to accept that people I love and have been my family for 6 years, now go homeless. I hope they land on their feet, somehow, but knowing what I know she doesn't have options. Also the kids need watching 24/7, they are no help, and they are a full time job. Once they leave, I might not even know where they live or how.

I can't think "they're not my problem anymore" unless I turn into someone I would hate. And maybe I don't have a choice. Hate my life and suffer while I care for them, or hate myself for not caring anymore. 

I hated myself for divorcing my previous wife (7 years ago), and she kept the house and had a job, and she's all right. And I still haven't forgiven myself for that.

I know this guilt doesn't help or serve anyone. And still, I can't shake it.
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dindin
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« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2020, 07:07:07 AM »

You hate on the only person who would take care of you? Someone who would protect you against harm and escape a toxic situation? That is the only true friend you'll ever have: yourself.

You often hear about family members of gangsters etc. covering horrible crimes for the false idea of loyalty at their own risk. That is no loyalty, that's being a slave to an idea. And our situations aren't that different from this. No one's love or well-being is worth more than my own. I will share, but I will not sacrafice.

I am just a devil's advocate here. I know exactly how you feel and how hard that is. I am/have been there. But I recognised it for being internalised shame and installed codependency. It's a false narrative that keeps you a slave to anyone that comes your way. Maybe try to address codependency as a possibilty in therapy?

Still you're doing an amazing job reaching out.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2020, 07:17:14 AM by dindin » Logged
JNChell
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« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2020, 05:16:27 PM »

You’re getting good support here. Are you okay with talking about the kids? What’s going on with them?
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“Adversity can destroy you, or become your best seller.”
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JoeBPD81
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« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2020, 05:49:30 AM »

They haven't gone. She has started being kind and apologizing to me. We were in the middle of moving from one flat to another and she keeps looking at flats for the 4 of us. But no word about "if we move, it means we are gonna stay living together".

She made a joke, kind of a joke, about not having sex ever again. She found me attractive, and said no matter how handsome I make myself, she's not having sex again, ever, with no one.

Then I got a call from a nice flat, and the two things put together left me with a feeling of emptyness. If we won't have sex, and won't be a couple. Isn't it her job defining what we are and what's in it for me?

Because I feel I'm only good enough to pay the bills.
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