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Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse... Have you considered that being critical, judgmental, or invalidating toward the other parent, no matter what she or he just did will only make matters worse? Someone has to be do something. This means finding the motivation to stop making things worse, learning how to interrupt your own negative responses, body language, facial expressions, voice tone, and learning how to inhibit your urges to do things that you later realize are contributing to the tensions.
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Author Topic: Can this ship be turned around Part 3  (Read 502 times)
RestlessWanderer
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« on: September 29, 2020, 08:29:14 AM »

This is a continuation of a previous thread: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=346604.30

Year after year, explosion after explosion, and especially after each episode of violence, I have withdrawn. I know that doing that has in itself driven the wedge in between us even more. I don’t know how to talk to her about anything that I fear will upset her. I have become so conditioned to avoid her anger that I avoid it like the plague. I don’t know if I can learn to change how I communicate with her fast enough to overcome the growing blame she places on me for all of her problems, let alone our problems. I have such a hard time reconciling the vitriol that even when she’s being sweet or affectionate my heart has such a hard time reciprocating.
I understand what you are saying FF and Cat. I think that my proposed conversation shows why I chose silence most of the time. It’s such a delicate and intricate song and dance that I would have to learn that in the end I feel like I would not be communicating in any way that is even remotely natural.
I have been taking classes and reading books for the last 2.5 years and the only improvement our relationship ever saw was in the first couple of months after the car accident. Even in that peaceful period I remember being frustrated that I wasn’t heard or validated. Over the last 4 years or so I have scheduled marriage counseling at least 10 times, and canceled all but one of them because she backed out.
I fear that I have become so traumatized that I can’t heal myself enough to also try to take on the load of figuring out how to heal this relationship. Because until she actually assumes responsibility for her BPD, NPD,  PTSD, and addictions and then does something about them I will not have any faith that we could actually save our relationship.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2020, 10:42:23 AM by Cat Familiar » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2020, 08:49:48 AM »


What was the counseling like when you showed up without her?  10 times showing up without her...that's a lot.

This BPDish stuff is difficult to understand and it's also not static because their feelings change so often.

Still there are some bedrock "rules" that can help you understand and perhaps help you to be heard.

https://bpdfamily.com/pdfs/validation_slides.pdf

https://www.bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-dont-be-invalidating

https://bpdfamily.com/parenting/03.htm

Yes..I'm aware one of those links is to the parenting section.

These links are about general education.  I'm interested in your thoughts after you read them and also would like you to look again at what Cat Familiar pointed out to you.

Best,

FF

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RestlessWanderer
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« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2020, 10:37:05 AM »

I only went once when I waited for her to come. The other times she had me cancel before the appointment.

I have read and will continue to read and work the tools. But I don’t think that there’s any stopping this from happening now.

I have read and reread what Cat pointed out also. I have reflected on that quite a bit. I see where that statement is invalidating. It’s not the type of thing  that I have said on very many occasions at all. in this case, I was trying to think of how to disengage from that conversation.

At this point I’m ready to end the r/s. I’m tired and I have much healing to do. I have to put on my mask. And as long as I remain in this marriage it is just too hard to do. I’ve been walking on eggshells for way too long. I have been trying for years to improve things and no matter what I do I am being blamed for not trying to fix things, for causing our problems, etc.

I want to start living free of drama (or at least greatly reduced).
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Cat Familiar
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« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2020, 10:59:39 AM »

Some marriages become irreparably broken. It happens.

Best to figure out how to detach with compassion and to learn strategies that enable you to co-parent and support your child in as healthy a way as possible.

It sounds like you've been emotionally distancing yourself from her for years, with good reason, but still you've been vulnerable emotionally to her unkindness.

Knowing that you cannot change how she responds, you can make yourself safer from her onslaughts with boundaries

We've given you a lot of reading material, but you seem like someone who is very mindful and motivated, regardless of how your wife has characterized you.

Think of this assignment as nothing about her, only about you, and how to protect you so you needn't retreat and avoid communicating with her. You're going to have to talk with her for many years as your son grows into manhood.

Having grown up with a BPD mom, I was on high alert constantly, not only with her, but with my first husband, who was very BPD/NPD and ASPD, to a degree. When I finally got out of that miserable marriage, I did counseling, but once again married a pwBPD. This time I was really angry when the BPD showed itself after a blissful couple of years of normalcy, more or less. And I didn't want to be a slave to his emotions, as I'd been previously with my mother and my first husband.

So I learned some tools. Not all of them, just some. I didn't want to have to remember complex formulas like DEARMAN, which undoubtedly is very helpful for some folks, but I'm kinda lazy. And the tools I've managed to learn have effectively shielded me from his dark moods, so I can peacefully and happily go about my business while he goes through whatever emotional distress he's immersed in.

Please don't think we're asking you to learn these tools for your wife's sake, or for the sake of repairing your relationship. It's for you, and to make your life easier and more fulfilling.

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“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
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« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2020, 11:05:18 AM »

I only went once when I waited for her to come. The other times she had me cancel before the appointment.

 I see where that statement is invalidating.

 

  I have to put on my mask.

 I’ve been walking on eggshells for way too long. 

I want to start living free of drama (or at least greatly reduced).

Hmmm...

Can you explain (I'm seeing several sentences) how those statements were invalidating?

It's interesting to chat with someone that is so deep inside walking on eggshells around BPD.  The world is so oddly flipped...

I would have expected you to say "I need to take off my mask"...and you appear to want to put a mask on.

What is the difference (to you) in mask wearing and eggshell walking?

If you want to live free of drama...are you ready to stop engaging in drama? 

Best,

FF
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RestlessWanderer
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« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2020, 11:48:19 AM »

FF I feel like I’m not expressing myself adequately based on the questions that you’re asking.

Why would I be taking off my mask? The idea of putting on my mask first is that I can’t help anyone if I’m not making sure I’m taking care of myself first.

You asked me to reflect on what I was thinking of saying to my wife regarding the hypothetical conversation you posed. Cat Familiar pointed out that saying the conversation wasn’t of value would be invalidating. I reflected on that and saw what she meant.

Perhaps I haven’t done a good job of painting a picture of how frequently I am navigating dysregulation episodes involving massive amounts of blame, insults, and anger. The only way I have ever been able to prevent them from spiraling out of control was to keep quiet. Not a single word said by me has ever helped calm her in the least bit. Everywhere she looks she sees something that triggers her. She walks in the yard and sees only what I haven’t done, she looks around the house and sees only where I haven’t done things she asked, she watches movies with stories about scumbag men that somehow trigger her into seeing only how I am the same as them. I have been called, at minimum, a worthless piece of PLEASE READ at least once a week for the last 4 years. Yes, I am absolutely guilty of engaging in some of the drama. It’s not as simple as changing the subject or calmly saying let’s talk about this later. Once she gets onto something she is going to let you hear all of it until she’s done. I have been doing a very good job of not reacting to her very skillfully and deliberately crafted insults (which is a skill learned from her dad and honed with years of practice) for the last two and a half years.
But we have a son together and will be linked for the rest of our lives. So, the potential for her to cause drama is never going away. I will continue to try not to engage. But I’m human and sometimes I react.
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« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2020, 03:05:58 PM »



Why would I be taking off my mask? The idea of putting on my mask first is that I can’t help anyone if I’m not making sure I’m taking care of myself first.
 

Oh...we are on same page.  You are talking about putting on an "oxygen mask". 

I was assuming you were talking about a mask to "hide" your real face.  Doohhhh

We are on same page.

Best,

FF
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« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2020, 03:08:02 PM »



Perhaps I haven’t done a good job of painting a picture of how frequently I am navigating dysregulation episodes involving massive amounts of blame, insults, and anger. The only way I have ever been able to prevent them from spiraling out of control was to keep quiet. 

Ummmm...naaaahhh...I've got a good picture.

The good thing is...you can control your wife's dysregulations...right?

I mean they are a minor part of your life since you are able to control them and keep them from spiraling out of control.  Right?

Best,

FF
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RestlessWanderer
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« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2020, 02:52:06 PM »

This story continues in a new thread https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=346750.0
I’m going to take the advice of FF and learn to better implement the tools in the hopes of bringing this marriage back from the brink of divorce.
Thanks
RW
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« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2020, 06:37:19 AM »


What are you planning on focusing on first?

Best,

FF
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RestlessWanderer
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« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2020, 07:33:52 PM »

What are you planning on focusing on first?

Best,

FF
Im not sure. How can I evaluate what might be a good place to start?
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« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2020, 09:25:04 PM »

Im not sure. How can I evaluate what might be a good place to start?

Well, that's hard to say, because you already know that BPDish stuff is at play

Most people say (with 2 nons) that communication is the place to start.  If two "normal" people "see" things clearly...lots of stuff gets better quickly or there is clarity that there is not a way forward.

BPD will mean that emotions vary widely.  So one day communications works well and then next day the same thing will dysregulate her.

I would recommend that you be "perplexed" at BPDish stuff.  Nonjudgmental.  You don't understand but want to.

"unexplained irritability" is a great cover term for I was being normal and she went bonkers.

So..let me flip this.  What would you "like" to focus on first?  What is something that if you could "solve" it...you would be very pleased.

Best,

FF
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RestlessWanderer
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« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2020, 09:11:53 PM »

So..let me flip this.  What would you "like" to focus on first?  What is something that if you could "solve" it...you would be very pleased.

I think I’d like to learn how to weather the storms better, since there’s nothing I can do to prevent them. As a parent I think of how I used to step back from temper tantrums thrown by my kids when they were toddlers. In essence I would let them go until they ran out of steam, provided they weren’t breaking things or hurting anyone/themselves. With my wife, though I know that much of what is said has very little to do with me and shouldn’t be taken to heart, that is much easier said than done. I have made progress over the years, but I think that’s something that would improve how I handle all of this and limit how it affects me in the long run (i.e. not growing distant)
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