"Can you just let it roll off your back?"

[Hilla]

How do you all handle when family members say things like, "Can't you just let it roll off your back?" 

I have so much history going back decades with my sister being abusive, directing her anger at me, fixating on me, insulting me, blaming, accusing... The way my therapists have taught me to deal with it is to use 'I' statements and then disengage/get the hell outta there/block the phone. Sis refuses to work with a counselor even though I've asked for decades for us to do family or group therapy of some kind. I always say how we are not equipped to handle this on our own and we shouldn't have to do it alone. But she always said she is perfectly fine with the way things are and it is me who has the issue, if I have a problem with her, it is my problem to deal with, take it up with my shrink. Even though she is being so destructive and hurtful... She doesn't care, she is prideful to the point of sin.

So when my family member says my sister and I just need to talk it out face to face and then shelve it, and they ask me what will it take for whatever sister says to roll off my back, I don't know how much to share b/c it is so ugly, and scary. How do you all respond to things like that?


When my sister called my dad the other day and I heard her voice from the phone, I had a physical response, my blood pressure went up. I felt really scared...

[squirrel20]

I am the target of our 27 year old. I can relate to your post.

We are estranged from my husband’s side of the family because of her and her attacks. They “drink her kool-aid” as our specialist told us. They too always advise us “to talk it out”. It needs goes anywhere unless she wants is around or she’s leveled off for a bit.

 I cannot let it roll off my back. The attacks, accusations, the destruction has been severe.

My only advice is to cut out contact.  Our specialist, who worked with solely my husband and I did not give us a lot of hope. The overall theme with BPDs is that WE have to learn to deal with them...use the SET method, use I statements, like you mentioned. Personally, I find this to be ridiculous. Sometimes the things I have been subjected to are slanderous and have hurt my reputation.

I’m a little tougher than handling our daughter with complete sensitivity at all times. I do not put up with it anymore. My middle child has disengaged, we block her from our 12 year old, and my husband barely speaks to her (she’s out of state). She’s getting the message that we have boundaries and she really crossed them this last year with a major episode.

Sounds like you’ve had years of abuse at her hands. I do consider their behavior abusive (even if they “can’t help it”) It is NOT your problem. It is hers. Not sure how easy that is, but she does sound like she caused you enough grief. You shouldn’t need a therapist to live life.

But bottom line is, it’s very difficult to allow such poor treatment to roll off your shoulders.

[Methuen]

"Can't you just let it roll off your back?"

People who say this probably aren't coping either, or aren't experiencing the suffering the way you are, right?  Maybe they don't know how to help resolve the problem, so it becomes easier to blame you, than to admit the real problem or that they don't have a solution to the problem.  Short answer: it's a cop out (in my opinion).  They're just dumping the problem back on you, to make it go away for them.  Not helpful.  That's probably what I would say to them the next time they suggest "letting it roll off your back".  Then follow it up with an I statement, and leave the situation.  Immediately do something pleasant for yourself (listen to music, go for a walk in nature, meditate, or do a hobby).

So when my family member says my sister and I just need to talk it out face to face and then shelve it, and they ask me what will it take for whatever sister says to roll off my back, I don't know how much to share b/c it is so ugly, and scary.

  Hilla I am saddened to hear you are not getting more support from your family member.  They may be in denial, or unable to cope themselves, or maybe something else is going on.  I would be hesitant to share too much with a person saying this, because they won't be able to understand your situation.  Any person who says you "need to talk it out" with the pwBPD" clearly doesn't know anything about BPD.  "Talking it out" usually means JADEing, and JADEing only escalates a BPD.  Therefore people who suggest this, are blissfully ignorant and unaware that their advice (if you follow it) will probably make the situation worse.  They probably think "talking it out" will work because generally speaking, it works well in healthy relationships where people can listen to each other, respond, explain, justify, defend, argue, rationalize...all without emotion.  The problem with BPD is that explaining, justifying, defending, arguing are the very things that trigger them because they don't think rationally.  They are completely emotional.  "Talking it out" may work in discussions between friends, at work places, in problem solving, where you are talking with healthy people, but it never works with a pwBPD.  Instead, they feel invalidated, and return with some verbal attack as a defense to their intense emotional reaction.
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=139972.20

Would you like to try sharing with us? 

When my sister called my dad the other day and I heard her voice from the phone, I had a physical response, my blood pressure went up. I felt really scared...

This sounds like a learned response (classical conditioning from Psych 100).  The good news is whatever has been learned can be unlearned.  Time to give yourself a break from your sister, if you can.  Do you live together or apart?

[Harri]

Hi!

I agree people who say let it roll off your back are a bit clueless and it is not a helpful response at all.  Find other people to talk with.  here is a good place.   

Can you tell us more about what happens prior to getting these comments?  Are you talking with the person about an incident, your feelings of being upset?  We on this board have a tendency to look to other family members to back us up or defend us which is akin to asking them to take sides.  Intentional or not, it sets up a drama triangle that we do not want to set up as it increases tension and upset for everyone and everyone ends up being the persecutor, victim and rescuer at some point.  Are you familiar with the Karpman Drama Triangle?  What you want to do is recognize your typical role, learn about the others and step to the middle of the triangle rather than picking your corner. 

I don't know if that is applicable in your case so see what you think.  If it is useful, great.  If not, leave it be.   

[Hilla]

Thanks everyone. It is really helpful to read your responses.

I really don't know what to do.
But I can take a break from her, and I blocked her number. I do not live with her, but my (79yo) father and I moved to her area in August - because of the pandemic and wanting to be closer to family, and also b/c my sister had an incident happen in May where her boyfriend put his hands on her, police came, the kids woke up, etc. My sister came to me with this and I really thought/hoped she would be moving out and moving on, but everything got confused/manipulated and she is staying with the guy - even though she says all kinds of complaints about him. I worry the kids are not safe at his house, and I don't think highly of the guy. My sister cheated on her husband with him, and her husband divorced her right away when he realized this was not the first time she had betrayed him.  The  new relationship seems like a situation where she thinks she has to make it look like everything is perfect and they are in love. But she has never had stable relationships - she always is complaining and making problems - she diagnoses her boyfriends, this one is an alcoholic and OCD. anyway enough about that.

Taking a break is complicated b/c I still want the children, 9yo+12yo, to feel like they can come here. I want them to feel safe and I know that being with me and my dad is a calm good environment for them. Or at least it was but my sister told them to say no if I ask for help around the house and when the kids talked back to me about it I told them that was not okay. One of them started yelling and crying. The exchange was about 60seconds but unfortunately they called their mom and told them I was mean. My sister flipped out at me and texted me a barrage of insults and cursed at me, etc. She was somehow still furious (her word) the next morning, sent text messages about how I am horrendous and not to talk to her b/c she will scream in my face. When she arrived, she walked up to the door and it happened to be when I was showing our dad the text message rant -- she yelled at me and said "Playing the victim so well I see!" and clapped her hands and started to yell at me. I said she was being disrespectful and I got up to leave the room. She yelled that I am disrespectful and then she cursed at me in front of the kids. The 9yo mouthed to me, "Sorry."

Since then I turned off my phone and filtered emails from her. I just go into a shut down recovery mode, yes, a learned response. I get headaches and become exhausted, and I cry and it takes about three days to feel free of it. It has been two and a half weeks now, she and my dad have talked in person twice. He said the kids can come one day a week for school but she said no and that we should have a pancake breakfast and all be nice to each other. I dont know what to do b/c I don't feel safe around her at all. My poor dad has seen me upset for decades from sister yelling at me and being so destructive. He is convinced she lies all the time, and tells the children horrible things about us, and says she will always be this way.
We don't know what to do.

It was my aunt who said to let it roll off my back.

I wish I could be unaffected by it, but it began when I was very young and still developing. My sister and I both have conditioned behavior.

Most therapists say to have zero relationship with her.

My poor old dad is in the middle. He told my sister she has to show a change in behavior. She is refusing to apologize for anything and she is yelling at him for taking sides. She says so many horrible things...

I have just been devalued by her for most of my life, I really resent her, and I resent that she never ever says she is sorry and never ever looks at the consequence of her anger towards me. She will patently say she did nothing wrong.

Recently she has started using dictation for her text messages. So when she is angry it is just this stream of consciousness. This time I am focused on that as something I just wish she would stop, I wish she would own up to it and realize how wrong it is, say she is sorry, say she will work on it. But that isn't going to happen.

She will pretend nothing happened and the cycle will start up again.

I feel like I always say to her that I want to break the cycle and I want to resolve the conflict, but she will get angry and say my therapy speak is weird and useless etc. She is just venomous. She brings up this one guy I had one date with 20 years ago. He was someone she had a crush on when we were kids. I ran into him years later and he hit on me. Whenever she is angry she brings it up to show how horrible I am to her.

She also brings up the time 15 years ago I told her I could not have a relationship with her unless she got professional help - this was at the advice of my therapist at the time, b/c my sister for years was always getting drunk and lashing out at me. When I told her that it was after her wedding and she uses it against me to this day, says how horrible I was for doing that after her wedding.
I should have really done it at the time though. I eventually was manipulated back into the cycle.

[Hilla]

Are you familiar with the Karpman Drama Triangle?  What you want to do is recognize your typical role, learn about the others and step to the middle of the triangle rather than picking your corner. 

I don't know if that is applicable in your case so see what you think.  If it is useful, great.  If not, leave it be.   

Yes it is relatable and it scares me b/c we have done all of these things in my family. I become very upset when my sister is mean to me, and I shut down; like I said, I have the physical response too, where I get a headache or I cry, or my sleep is disrupted. I feel like I can feel her pain, too, feel her suffering, feel her unhappiness. What I find the most sad about the whole thing is that I worry about how SHE feels, I worry about what it is like for her in dark moments when she lets the anger go and something else like shame takes over... Maybe this is because I can remember in the past when she talked about those dark moments. When we were in our teenage years, we finally bonded...most of childhood and adolescence she was not very nice to me but when we did bond later on, she would get drunk and become angry at me and the next day would call me nonstop until I answered, and she would be mad at me for being upset, she would say 'how can you be upset when you know how mad I am at myself?' It was very confusing and twisted. I don't think she remembers any of those times when she was so angry. At our mother, too, who has been damaged most of all.

When I imagine the pain my sister has inside, I cry for her, and I pray, and I wish to god there was something else we could do. But being terrorized and then when she turns it around on me and accuses me of being the terrorist... I just, I feel it in my throat like a lump, and I want so badly to rid all of us of this. I wish I could help her.

I feel like I am constantly in the middle of feeling like I need to completely let go and not have a relationship, or I need to figure out a way to fix the problem. But I can never fix the problem and I can never fully get away.

There were a few times interspersed throughout these recent years when I did not talk to her for a year here or eight months there. It happened a couple times. My mom and I were surprised at how much better life was. And that we did not feel guilty in the way we thought we would, we thought it would weigh us down, but it didn't. We got a new perspective and could really see her for who she is, which is someone with very disordered thinking.

[Methuen]

You have laid out the problem well.  I can empathize with your struggle, and how difficult this must be, because you are thinking of the children.

I feel like I always say to her that I want to break the cycle and I want to resolve the conflict, but she will get angry and say my therapy speak is weird and useless etc. She is just venomous.

I would suggest avoiding this kind of talk with her, because you will never get a different result than the venom response.  It hasn't worked for...how many years?  It can work between healthy people, but not with people who have BPD.

Hilla, do your sister and her kids, by any chance live within walking or biking distance to your house?  Sis's kids sound like they live in a chaotic and highly conflicted home environment.  Since you moved to their area fairly recently (August), there will be an adjustment phase for them to learn how things work when they are at your house, versus when they are at home.  Your house has structure.  My guess is their home doesn't.  Kids are smart and they will learn that your house has rules and expectations.  It sounds like they are already figuring this out - by trial and error, as they push your boundaries.  It won't take them long to figure out that your home feels safer (because it is predictable, and you don't yell and scream at them), even if they can't articulate this feeling in thoughts or words yet.  When a good opportunity presents itself (you are alone with them and the moment presents itself) you could let them know that if they ever need help or a place to go, they can come to your place.  You probably already tell them how much you care about them, but repeating it could be a game changer.  Kids that grow up in chaotic homes don't always feel love.  Then regardless of what your sister tells them about you, they can choose to trust and believe you.  Apart from that, if your sister makes it difficult for her kids to spend time with you on your terms, there's not much you can do.  Just keep getting the message to the kids that you care about them, and that they can come to your house.

Does your 79yo dad live with you?

Your sister isn't going to change, and you already know that.  She makes poor life choices, and chaos is her "normal".  In all likelihood, if her life were to have a spell of quiet equilibrium, she would likely have to create a chaos episode.  So, since you have already moved to her, this becomes about what you and your dad will do to look after yourselves.  How will you each do that?  How will you avoid getting drawn into her drama and chaos?  Blocking her phone number and filtering her emails is a small step, but what things are you able to do for self-care?

[Hilla]

Taking care of myself looks like resting and doing what I need to do for myself, focusing on my work, planning a trip to visit family in Nov/Dec.
It is much calmer when she is not around. I don’t know how to get the kids back over here though, b/c I blocked her phone. My dad isn’t inviting them over. Wish we could communicate and be civil... only so the kids come back and spend time here. Not sure what to do. I think it’s important for them to come here. My dad is not saying very much to sister, tried in a phone conversation to plan a walk with her so he can talk to her, but she told him no, and talked about me negatively, said it is toxic for their relationship, and that I am toxic, etc, and that she won’t apologize to me. She wants to have the kids come over for all five of us to have pancake breakfast instead of dropping them one day a week while she works. Dad says she is hiding behind the kids. She says what is between me and her should stay between me and her. So he’s def in the very very middle right now.
We knew this would happen, but we didn’t have a plan.
It’s strange how much my sister and I think poorly of one another. She’s as vindicated in her negative beliefs about me as I am about her.
Self care is not hard for me to take. I just worry about the kids, don’t want them to feel like they can’t come here or call. My dad thinks my sister tells them horrible lies on a consistent basis. About me.

Ugh.

[Mtnlvr8]

I relate so much to your situation. This especially resonated with me:.

“ I feel like I am constantly in the middle of feeling like I need to completely let go and not have a relationship, or I need to figure out a way to fix the problem. But I can never fix the problem and I can never fully get away.”

I go through periods of feeling like I’ve come to a conclusion, only to be stuck in that place again. A part of me always wonders if my sister is right and there is something I could do to make things better. I especially start doubting myself when a well meaning family member or friend doesn’t understand and suggests something I could do.

I don’t have much advice to offer, but I’m with you. I feel your pain and your perspective is valid. Trust yourself.