Don't know what to do, please HELP

[Snowflake90]

Hey guys,

First post here so please bear with me. It's a long story but I'll try to keep it short.
My wife has BPD, she was diagnosed 2 years ago. Looking back it all made a lot of sense, the rage, crying, stonewalling, insomnia, verbal abuse and what not.
Hers is so severe she takes a wide range of medication and attends therapy twice a week. She has eating disorders too.
She was so bad once, she had to be hospitalized for 3 weeks. She would cut deep into the skin, requiring multiple stitches and attempted suicide. I actually asked for divorce in the hospital, and then walked back on the decision on the next day. I later found out that the day I asked for divorce and left the hospital she tried to strangle herself with the iphone charger. She had made clear a lot of times that should I leave her she'd kill herself.That was last year. She has been in "intensive" treatment ever since and has greatly improved. Thing is, with BPD it seems kinda like a chronic thingy. From her hospital exit she has cut herself again a few times, though certainly a lot less often, otherwise she'd be taken in again. She has greatly reduced the frequency of cuts and the last one was so light it didn't require stitches. We've been doing couples therapy. I did therapy. The abuse and rages have improved dramatically. Sex went from stone cold zero to once a week and at a better quality. But it's still pretty random. Sometimes she won't really be interested at all and at others she will initiate and at others she will "do me a favor", as in I don't really want it but I'll do it for you. We have two wonderful small kids, one is five the other is two. Needless to say her illness plays a role in that. She used not to help at all with the kids as that was beyond her emotional capacity. Now she helps a bit, but perhaps still less than what I'd hope for. We have two maids at home (one cleans the house and does the laundry and the other is the nanny) and just these days one of them, the nanny, couldn't come for a few days and it feels like our relationship was ignited. She'd call and rage at me for leaving work at 5 pm, since she "has no help at home and is very tired and that when I come it's my turn with the kids and where the f*k are you etc etc". In fact that is a recurring theme in our relationship, we argue a lot about who does what with the kids. I always have this feeling that I should be doing less since I work and pay for two maids. While she on the other hand always says something like but today I did x so you should do y or last night I did x, now's your turn. She doesn't work, spends a lot on credit card, shopping, etc. I make a big salary but can't really pay my bills. We rely on help from the family to pay for her treatment.
Last saturday we were alone in the house, kids were at in-laws. I went for a nap. She said she wanted to go for a walk with me, I said I was tired, she said I'll go on my own then, I'm like ok. She comes back an hour later and tells me she tried to purposedly cross the street at the last minute so a car would hit her. She tried that 4-5 times, and luckily (whew) nothing happened. I was shocked. She was laughing and said it felt like riding a roller coaster. I felt so bad, like I ate some rotten food. Couldn't really function well for the past two days. She later apologized and seemed to realise what stupid mistake she made. And this is my dilemma. She has made remarkable recovery but not quite to the level I wanted, and every now and then she screws up terribly and then apologizes. This all make me real confused as to what to do.
Should I stay or should I go? I think about the kids, our good moments together, etc.
In her defense, we do spend good times together like watching netflix, laughing, talking etc.
To be honest it looks to me as if we are very good friends but not a very good couple, e.g. tackling problems together, helping each other out, etc. Sometimes it feels like our relationship is on life support, the money, the maids, etc. Take one of these out and the patient dies.
I'm on anxiety medication btw.
If you've read this far, thank you very much and hope to have not bored you with such a long story.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hi Snowflake90 - Welcome!

I'm so sorry about your situation.  It sounds awful.  You say she was diagnosed with BPD 2 years ago.  So, that was around the birth of your 2nd child.  It's common that BPD doesn't stand alone, and there are multiple health issues.  Is she diagnosed with any other mental health disorders?  How about family history, anyone on her side of the family have mental health issues?

You indicate that she is on several meds and in therapy.  Do you think she is actively participating in therapy, with a desire to improve?  Do you think she may have more than BPD going on?

How were things before marriage & then before the birth of your first child? 

She was so bad once, she had to be hospitalized for 3 weeks. She would cut deep into the skin, requiring multiple stitches and attempted suicide. I actually asked for divorce in the hospital, and then walked back on the decision on the next day. I later found out that the day I asked for divorce and left the hospital she tried to strangle herself with the iphone charger. She had made clear a lot of times that should I leave her she'd kill herself. . .     

. . .She said she wanted to go for a walk . . .She comes back an hour later and tells me she tried to purposedly cross the street at the last minute so a car would hit her. She tried that 4-5 times, and luckily (whew) nothing happened. I was shocked. She was laughing and said it felt like riding a roller coaster. I felt so bad, like I ate some rotten food

Do you worry about her around the children; in that she could jeopardize their lives, when she is sucidal or engages in risky behavior for a thrill?

Suicidal threats can be a form of blackmail and abuse. Is this something you have or will discuss in therapy?

[Snowflake90]

Hey there,

Thanks for the reply.
So as you can see, she's pretty depressive too, but I guess this is part of the BPD.
I first noticed in the first weeks after getting married. I was supposed to run an errand in the morning and since I met with my brother-in-law and talked to him for a while,
I delayed like 30-40 mins. It was sunday and we had the whole day before us, I arrived home at 10 am. She raged at me for my preferring my brother-in-law than her to hang out with.
When our first son was born, conflict sparked. I'd arrive home from work at 4:30 pm to please her but I'd get yelled at that I don't help enough around the house, and that since she stayed the "whole day" with our son it was my turn now and that I was "late". We'd have arguments over petty things and it'd quickly escalate into yelling pretty darn high, door slamming,
name-calling, and threats of her leaving the house with our then only son. She'd later apologize but then mention "I was wrong too". I have co-dependecy issues, so it took a pretty big while until I noticed I wasn't the problem. Family history, yeah she had a pretty bad childhood and I don't think BPD runs in the family but certainly other issues like NPD, depression, etc.
She participates in therapy but as I think that's a common theme in BPD, sometimes she's into it, sometimes she plays a cat and mouse game with the therapist and psychiatrist.
Like, since they're authorities and BPD people seem to have a problem with authority people, she tries to manipulate them, piss them off, threaten not to show up, etc.
That's a common theme but it's back and forth, sometimes she seems into getting better, sometimes she rages at them for trying to control her. I have seen her "forget" to take her meds. Not sure I believe that.
She was first diagnosed in the pregnancy of our second kid, she was bullimic back then. She managed to lose weight during pregnancy. Everything went fine though. But after a few months after the birth, she began self harming pretty bad, which is when she was hospitalized. As a co-dependent myself, I took on all roles. Her caregiver, mother of
the kids, work, etc and soon I was completely burnt out. That's when I had enough and asked for the divorce, but later backed out.
Am I worried about her around the kids? To be honest not really, she's never harmed them, she has only harmed herself. But these days I was worried about myself. The day after her running into cars incident, we had to run an errand
together. She insisted in driving. I reluctantly agreed. Didn't want to argue head-on, I felt like things could go haywire, since she was pretty touchy. Nothing happened, but I was pretty scared she was gonna ram into a car or something.
In fact only now I have come to worry she could try something stupid with me in the car, so we "could be together forever". She never gave any indication of that. But I fear that.
Anyway that's the point, things have come a long way. She's more loving, apologizing, functional, etc. The drama and rages have reduced by over 90% and sex has greatly improved. But, these occasional setbacks and the fact she's not yet 100% fully functional, make me wonder whether to sit and wait what comes up or cut the losses short. One big concern in leaving is either regret or her killing herself which in the past she has told me multiple times and she still does in a subtler way "I can't live without you, don't ever leave me".
We've been six years together now.
BTW I quit therapy. It felt like the therapist was pushing me through divorce, and I feel like I already have a clearer vision of things now. I did therapy for around a year and feels like I've learned almost everything I needed to. Indeed the suicide threat is a form of abuse. It was pretty blatant and I've talked to her about it in the past.

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hello Again Snowflake90:

BTW I quit therapy. It felt like the therapist was pushing me through divorce, and I feel like I already have a clearer vision of things now. I did therapy for around a year and feels like I've learned almost everything I needed to.   

At some point, you might want to find a different therapist, who doesn't push for divorce. Down the road, you might want to try a therapist who uses a different style of therapy.  You might have some specific goals and I'd be surprised if you don't have some problems with your children and child rearing at some point.  The situation with using a nanny & your partner melting down, when she has to step in, indicates a heap of upcoming issues. 

If you don't have a good means of venting in some way, therapy can help with that. Some people rely on family & friends, but that can get very old for those listening. Journaling can be a way to vent. 

things have come a long way. She's more loving, apologizing, functional, etc. The drama and rages have reduced by over 90% and sex has greatly improved. But, these occasional setbacks and the fact she's not yet 100% fully functional, make me wonder whether to sit and wait what comes up or cut the losses short.     

She will never be 100%.  Stressful life events are apt to bring on episodes of emotional dysregulation.  If she stops her meds, it won't likely go well.  At some point, the current meds might quit working and she may need a new med or combo.

You indicated that she had a meltdown when the nanny was abscent.  Do you anticipate being able to have a maid and nanny for years to come? When the children reach a certain age, you won't need a nanny, but your partner will need to interact more with the children.   

I suspect that if the current status quo is disrupted, that undesirable behaviors will ensue.  You have to radically accept that possibility.  I probably don't know all the facts, but from what I've read, it doesn't sound like she has to deal with much of anything in regard to the daily life hassles that most people have to deal with. 

I'm thinking that in order to gain emotional management skills, a person needs to get in some practice.  If they live in a bubble, (i.e. have a maid & a nanny), are they being sheltered too much?  Will they ever truly learn new behaviors and skills?

Just throwing out some things to consider.  If you want your partner to join in with parenting in a nonabusive manner, participate in running the household (without a meltdown), then you have a long road ahead of you.  If you continue on with a maid & nanny and her only requirements are to go to therapy 2 x a week and participate in sex, then you are good to go.  If not, you need to consider stepping her into getting more involved in life and being put in situations where she can learn & practice some skills. 

[Snowflake90]

Huge thanks for the reply NN and sorry for the delay in getting back.
So, I took your advice, I mean this is something I had in mind for a while e.g. I can't work and run a house, or I'll get sick. She needs to help me out. In the past week or so I told her I can't go buy the groceries (for some special reason we can't buy everything in one place, we need to go to two or three to buy meat, etc) , take our kid to school, work, pay the bills (access the bank online and pay them), help with the kids when get home, etc. I needed help, I'm drowning in work and house chores. She's doing online college and told me since she's at her finals, she can't give me any help whatsoever (like not even ordering online groceries). After taking our son everyday to school, going to a different place (butcher, grocery, etc) everyday, I had an urge to go do a sport to relax, last evening or I'd blow up. I was exhausted. I arrived home at 5:30 pm. She raged at me that the nanny would leave at 6 pm and there was no time for a sport and she was super stressed and wouldn't handle the kids. She said yellingly that if I wanted to go it had to be NOW and be back and showered by 6 pm.I said I'd anyway and wouldn't be ready by 6 pm, rather at 6:15 pm and she would have to watch the kids for 15 mins(is that too much?) and we went into a yelling argument, I finally spilled out everything I wanted to say, that I'm the provider and that I'm the "housewife" and I can't be both (that's a very sensitive topic for her, because she feels so bad she doesn't work and help pay the bills). It ended on me going for a sport and going back at 6 pm sharp and taking a 5 minute shower. The kids were busy with ipad and tv and weren't even giving any trouble whatsoever. Ever since she gave me the silent treatment, classic, of course . And in the morning we talked in a more civil manner, albeit she still argued that "I wanted to dump all the chores on her". I wanted to say more but ended up just saying "I won't do x and y but will do z or whatever".
Sorry for the rant but it feels good to vent. Any comments and feedback are well appreciated.

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hi Snowflake90:

Good to hear that you stood up for yourself.  Things can change slowly, if you are consistent with boundary enforcement.  Keep working the "grocery shopping issue".  For you to work all day, pick up the children and then be expected to grocery shop after work, is expecting too much.

If she wants to do all the shopping, then perhaps she can go to all the places at the frequencies she desires, until she gets tired of it. Meat & poultry can be frozen, some things can be purchased in quantities that can last for 2-week or more.  Some weeks, maybe you don't have the preferred item and substitute with something from the main store you visit. 

What's the end goal with your partner's online college courses?  Does she want to work?  Realistically, could she hold a job for very long?

You are the breadwinner and there are 2 maids to maintain the household and assist with child care.  She is used to NOT having responsibilities, so It's going to take some time.  You can expect more backlash, like the silent treatment.  It's common to experience "Extinction Bursts", in that things generally get worse before they get better.

Hang in there!  It's a challenging situation.  I suspect you will gain some satisfaction by giving this your best effort.  Please continue to take measures to work on your own anxiety and mental health and to continue to strive to free up some time for you.  By doing so, you can be a better father in the long run.

[Snowflake90]

NN again, huge thanks for the heads up.
I don't really know her end goals. She seems very into the online college, but I fear she might change her mind down the road. I don't think she could hold a job, but she could probably do some freelancer work. She's very insecure and her depression still gets the most out of her, some days. She will just stay in bed more, or be more cranky.
We've had a conversation, myself, her and her therapist. I think it was productive. She recognized she needs to help me more. But she asked for "patience" on my side, as these things need to happen very slowly and gradually or she could relapse. Her therapist agreed, and asked me to have patience too. She is indeed diminishing the meds (which make her more sensitive) and has improved greatly from her hospital stay. The thing is how much do I have to wait? What if that's just an excuse to continue living in a bubble as you said and just buy time? I found her honesty refreshing but on the other hand I feel like it might have disarmed me. Can I keep asking for help? Is that fair? What if she relapses? What if she says she's still not ready to help me more?
Indeed there are problems already with the child rearing thing. The children are kinda starved of attention. So they turn to me instead. There's no resentment towards her I think, but probably confusion, e.g. "where's mommy?", "why is she always sleeping/away?".
Again any comments are greatly appreciated.
Unfortunately I have no one to turn to, except this online forum .

[Cat Familiar]

As much as you’re doing, with all the responsibilities you have, it might seem onerous to take on another, but I think you need to find a therapist—one that will support you in what you want, not push you toward and outcome you don’t want.

[Notwendy]

I am going to agree with Cat.

I was raised by a BPD mother with some similar issues as your wife. My father was also able to afford household help. We were not wealthy, but it was a priority. Like your children, I resented it, wanted my mother to do more- I wanted her attention, but as an adult, my perspective of my mother is different. She is not able to do what the household help did- we were fed, had clean clothes and had consistent care. While this doesn't replace a mother's attention, without this, we'd have less and also less attention from my father as more would be placed on him.

You need to do what you need to take care of you. This may not be fair, you are the parent that takes on more of the parenting- but when I think of my father ( who is now deceased, I am middle age) he was the only parent I had. My mother is my biological mother, and she is a mother to the extent that she could be a mother, but it was my father who filled the role of Dad.

You may have an additional responsibility, but you will also gain the satisfaction of being a father. For this though, you need to take care of yourself as much as you can.

But there is more to this that I realized later when I had to work on my own co-dependent traits. I had perceived my father as the "good guy" in the family, my mother the "bad guy" and my father as some sort of victim of my mother's unreasonable behavior and expectations. I resented her for apparently doing nothing in the house and it looked like he was doing everything in his power to ease any frustrations or burdens she might face. We kids were enlisted in this family pattern as enablers. To be considered "good" and even to avoid anger from BPD mother ( and then Dad too) we learned to be co-dependent. Once I had to work on these traits in my dad, I could see his role in the relationship dynamics as well.

You may feel you need to protect your children and your wife but ironically to be able to best help your family, you need to first learn to protect and care for YOU. She's the center of your focus now, and I am willing to bet, she's the center of the family as well.

It is great that your parents live near by and can help you. This means a lot. Even if it isn't fair that the household help does so much, if you need it, and can afford it, do so. You need to have some peace of mind when you leave for work. Find a therapist who is willing to help you process what you need to do regardless of if you choose to stay or to divorce. It will help your children if you can role model self care rather than only focusing on what your wife needs.

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hey Snowflake90:

We've had a conversation, myself, her and her therapist. I think it was productive. She recognized she needs to help me more. But she asked for "patience" on my side, as these things need to happen very slowly and gradually or she could relapse. Her therapist agreed, and asked me to have patience too. 

Will you continue to have some joint sessions with her therapist? It sounds like a good start, but talking and doing are two different things. It would be beneficial, if this sort of combined therapy session could continue, even if you need to find a couple's therapist for that purpose.

Her therapist is right, in that it takes time to change habits. Things can't change overnight; but, unless planning and coaching takes place, it will never happen. Most people don't have a clue about how to make positive changes.

Venting in therapy is great. Gaining some helpful suggestions is wonderful. At some point, it's essential to have someone to act as a coach and actively help facilitate new healthy behaviors and strategies.

It would be great, if her current therapist can actively keep coaching your partner in improving her activity level and contribution to your family. Your wife needs to be guided on how to follow through with changes. Hopefully, her therapist can do that. If not, you may need to add someone who is more interactive with their clients.  Perhaps you add a couple's therapist who has an interactive/coaching style of therapy.

She's very insecure and her depression still gets the most out of her, some days. She will just stay in bed more, or be more cranky. 

I tend to get Fall depression/anxiety, so I've explored different strategies/skills to manage depression and anxiety.

A person has to start out doing the things they don't want to do. It's a matter of "acting as if, and the feelings will follow". If you linger in bed, longer than a healthy sleep period (i.e. 8 or 9 hours), you perpetuate the depression and/or anxiety.

It can be easier, if someone has to get out of bed at a certain time, before the episode of depression.  If someone holds a steady job, the motivation to get up, can be stronger.  Most people feel a duty to get up (a need to pay the bills, is a good motivation for most).  Upon reflection, most people will have to admit that they felt better on the days that they made their self get up and get busy.

Lingering in bed, only perpetuates depression, anxiety and negative thought patterns.  Getting up and busy almost always improves things. Some early morning techniques that can help:

1. Get in some deep breaths, drink some water and get some sunshine:

    1A.  Breath work is a good tool to clear your mind and reduce anxiety.  it can be a matter of choosing a favorite style (i.e. 4-7-8 = in for 4, hold for 7 and exhale for 8), or following a recorded audio breath meditation on an app like Insight Timer)

    1B. If outdoor light isn't possible, you can get seasonal depression lights.  The lights can be used in the morning, perhaps while using a computer, doing school work or cruising the internet or reading.

2.  Exercise:  Cardio is the best to elevate a mood. It can be a brisk walk or run in the neighborhood, a stationary bike or treadmill at home, or exercising along with a video (circuits, free weights, dancing, etc.)

3.  Meditation:  There are a lot of form of meditation, and something for everyone.  It can be a journey to explore the different types and find what works for you and what you might be comfortable with.

I'm sharing some things that I hope you find helpful and can lead to the development of new habits.

HOW TO CHANGE A HABIT:

     HABIT YOU WANT TO BREAK(Cue What & When):i.e. "In the morning you wake up depressed and/or anxious and linger in bed too long"

      UNHELPFUL ROUTINE: i.e. Linger in bed, and don't contribute to the family

       REWARD: Don't have to do anything, don't have to try, don't have to experience temp pain for long term gain.

NEW ROUTINE: 
1.  Write down a goal. Start with one or two initially.

     1A. Getting out of bed is essential, so perhaps one goal is to get out of bed by a certain time.  If she is used to staying in bed really late, she may need to make incremental goals (i.e. up by 10:00 a.m., then up by 9:00 a.m., then whatever the optimum time is - perhaps 8:00 a.m.)

     1B. The 2nd goal could be in regard to shopping. Start out with some level of shopping, and gradually increase it.  Perhaps she starts out with the main weekly shopping event, or takes on the additional special shopping episodes (i.e. meat market). The ultimate goal would be for her to do all the shopping a majority of the time.  You could fill in occasionally, as needed (but hopefully on rare occasions)

     1C. Once she gets better at getting out of bed, is successful with shopping, then she can move forward with other goals.  Perhaps, planning some quality time with the children.

A SAMPLE PLAN OF HOW TO CHANGE THE HABIT OF LINGERING IN BED:
1. Document anxious thoughts (what she may be worrying about) in some way (in a phone app, or a piece of paper or record audio).  After documenting them, postpone anxious thoughts until an appointed "worry time", during the day. If new anxious thoughts (about different things) appear during the day, add them to the list & then resume postponing further thought about them. Perhaps this can be done from bed (at least initially). Plan "worry time", which might start out for 30 minutes, as needed on a daily basis (then gradually decrease it over time).

2. From bed, start the day with some new habits that can help you get out of bed and start the day. A short meditation can be helpful. A person can do their favorite breathing exercise, find one that is led by an audio recording or perhaps a short audio recording that has a breathing exercise, along with a short meditation.

3. Get out of bed & start your day. Continue to gather more tools to manage depression and anxiety.  There are lots of tools out there. 

4. Document her daily compliance.  Don't expect perfection.  It will take time to achieve the initial and subsequent goal (s). Realistically, everyone will have some bad days.  The important thing is to get back into the healthy routine.

POSSIBLE RESOURCES:

INSIGHT TIMER: An app that is available for both Apple & Android. Lots of  different meditations, breathing techniques and coaching available for depression and anxiety. 

HEALING MEDITATION FOR DEPRESSION - ANDREA WACHTER
This visualization is only 9 minutes and should be doable for anyone.  Give it a try first for yourself and get a feel for it. It's free at Insight Timer.
Note:  You mentioned your wife has had problems with eating disorders. Andrea Wachter is a psychologist, who has a few courses on the Insight Timer app, that deal with eating disorders, as well as depression and anxiety.  She, also, has some helpful blog information on her website at:  www.andreawachter.com/

BREATHING EXERCISES & MORNING MEDITATIONS:  If you choose to get the app, there are plenty of things to try and use on an ongoing basis for free. Their live, international presentations are free. People can donate, if they wish.  If participants want to participate in the chat feature, you have to be a premium member.   

BOOK - THE POWER OF HABIT - BY CHARLES DUHIGG
The example above about the steps to change a habit came from this book.

HEALING MEDITATION FOR DEPRESSION - ANDREA WACHTER
This visualization is only 9 minutes and should be doable for anyone.  Give it a try first for yourself and get a feel for it.

SUMMARY: Just sharing some ideas.  It takes work to change habits.  Lingering in bed, when depressed, can become a habit.  People who need to change a habit, need some guidance/coaching to make changes.

It's encouraging that in the recent joint session, with your wife's therapist, that you wife acknowledged she needs to help out more.  Ultimately, she has to continue to want to change. The more tools she masters to manage anxiety, depression and emotions, the more she will improve her interactions with your family.

[Snowflake90]

Thank you all for the worthy replies. NN I wish I could tell her all that but as you know BPD people don't take suggestions lightly and in the end, it's more about them wanting to heal than me offering advice. In fact, I've made a rule for myself as in to give as less advice as possible. She has lashed out at me in the past for trying to interfere.
I do think about finding a therapist but not right now. I'm a bit at a crossroads now where my mind is kinda like 70-90% oriented towards a divorce in some time soon. I'm still evaluating this idea in a daily basis and I don't want any outside party to interfere, but of course you guys can post your opinions here, and I think I'll hardly feel pressured by what people write here, so please keep posting. What I mean is I want this to be my decision, not my parents' and not a therapist's. My wife self harmed two nights ago. It was ugly, she got a razor blade and impaled her leg. Blood was gushing out in the shower as she cried for me. I was really hoping an artery wasnt hit, and it wasn't! Thank the Heavens! I wanted to tell her parents but as always she forbid me of disclosing it to anyone. I only told her psychiatrist which she said it was ok. She left to the hospital in an uber but told me she was turning off the cellphone as it was very low battery. I said ok, then 5 mins later I panicked, is she really going to the hospital? What if she goes to a bridge and jumps from it? What would my in-laws tell me? Why didn't you call us? You let someone like that leave at night alone and without a phone? I panicked but held my ground. An hour later I called the hospital desperate, and after much back and forth I managed to speak to a receptionist at the ER that told me she checked in. Whew! Disaster averted. Half an hour later (she took like 2 hours there) she turns on the phone and tells me shes on her way home. I don't think I slept all night. I almost, almost asked for the divorce or temporary separation the next day but suspended the decision. I didn't do it. I almost also told everything to my parents, which at the point of the separation at the psych ward last year they were 200% in favour of me divorcing her and this created a huge rift between them and her and her family. They still think she doesn't self harm since her psych ward discharge  and is doing better each day. If I tell them all, they will pressure me into divorcing her, just like last time. So although the burden is great I must bear it myself, for now. I'm a religious person, and I do think the Almighty created us to face challenges, but not to live a life of suffering. Although I love her, perhaps quite a bit, I think we're coming to a point where this relationship is affecting my physical and mental health. I feel like this is something I have to do at one point (doesn't need to be today or tomorrow), even if I don't want to. And it will be painful, but perhaps in the long run, I'll feel much better. Now I don't want to encourage anyone to follow my path, but looking at this forum and the threads we see, I feel each time more confident that divorce is the right option. So much suffering and distress here. I wonder how people make it 20 years or more, sometimes with an undiagnosed partner.
I'm also not optimistic at all with her treatment. I think 20 years from now she could still self-harm, albeit probably less frequently, and she would also still be someone who needs a lot of treatment, would not help much with house chores and parenting, and would have bouts of depression. And me, I'd probably double or triple the anxiety med, may have more health issues due to stress, not something I'm looking forward too. If I do divorce, I'll go back to my therapy. While I'm at the crossroads phase, I don't feel like going.
If you've read it this far, thank you so much.

[Notwendy]

Snowflake- this is my opinion - I think you are looking at this as an either-or choice- the therapist or divorce. It's not.

I understand that you don't want the divorce to be someone else's opinion. A good therapist should help you process and come to a decision on your own, not push you towards their decision- but support you with yours whatever that may be.

We are not professionals, but here on this board, we also have a rule against telling posters to stay or leave for the same reason. Arriving at a decision is a process and also an essential part of your own growth. You have to go through this process in your own way and at your own pace. I think if we know this, a good therapist would too.

You are having your own emotional health issues and yet, you are focused on your wife and her crises and drama rather than seek out help for yourself. In other terms, what if you had strep throat? Would you say you can't go get antibiotics while looking for help for your wife and continue to suffer?

Your wife has mental health issues but you are struggling too. You don't have control over her mental health, but you can take charge of yours and it will be better for you and all involved.

You care about your children and  they need you to be at your best, for you, for them.

Getting help and support from a therapist is not just about seeking a divorce. It's about you taking care of yourself, being more clear headed whether or not you choose to stay or leave. Also even if you do divorce, you will need to negotiate the divorce and child care and other aspects of splitting your marriage- and so being in a better state of mind will help you throught he process as well.

[Snowflake90]

Wendy thanks for the reply you're right, but I think my issues stem from my wife. I have a belief, maybe I'm wrong, that by divorcing her 90% of my anxiety will fade away. I know I tend to overreact to things and worry too much. But I feel like I have a better analogy to my situation. Let's say I'm extremely allergic to wasps and need to take anti-wasp-venom medicine everyday, because If I'm stung I could suffer big time. But at the same time I'm taking my meds I walk all the time with my hand thrusted into a wasp nest. How rational is that?
I feel like I'd still have extreme reactions to dangerous situations but 90% of them would be gone now. And the other 10% could be managed with therapy and meditation etc.
You're right that a good therapist wouldn't push me through divorce. But maybe I'd push him to push me to divorce (sounds crazy but that's how I am). I still wonder if my last T was pushing me through divorce or maybe my complaining to him the whole session about my wife was myself trying to tell him I need to divorce.
About the either/or you're right but I keep wondering if I want to be in a relationship that needs such close management T and Meds for me, T and meds for her, drama, rage, self harm, suicidal thinking, parenting alone. Is life supposed to be this hard?

[Cat Familiar]

I’ll share my perspective, having been married to two husbands with BPD. First of all, there may be something about us (codependent, caretaker personality?) that draws us into these relationships, where others would flee at the first sign of dysfunction. Often we have had a family member with a personality disorder, so these difficult personalities feel like “family” or we have a strong sense of our own abilities to cope with highly emotional people.

By definition, someone with a personality disorder is not going to be an easy person to get along with, though they may be wonderfully entertaining at times, they will also have very troubling moments. That said, personality disorders are on a spectrum, from very slight impairment to extreme dysfunction.

I’ve experienced both ends of the spectrum. My current husband was diagnosed by the psychologist we saw for over a year for marriage counseling as having a personality disorder. She told me a couple of years later when I went to see her for individual therapy, much like the position you find yourself in, feeling that most of my issues were related to his behavior.

However his behavior consisted of things that were irritating and drove me to distraction, but from a big perspective, minor problems. I just had run out of patience for the crazy after years of dealing with a BPD mother and an ex husband who was likely not only BPD, but also NPD and with some antisocial personality traits too.

With what I’ve learned on this site, through reading books, and doing therapy, my current marriage is enjoyable and fulfilling. Yes, he still has black moods occasionally and little issues sometimes occur, but mostly things are good.

In my first marriage, I didn’t have any of the knowledge I now have about how to deal with someone with a personality disorder. The issues, however, were far more severe: criminal behavior, drug use, violence, financial irresponsibility, infidelity. When I finally had had enough and divorced, a black cloud lifted from my life. I began doing therapy, hoping to never again repeat some of the patterns that had allowed me to remain in such a dysfunctional marriage.

...and then I married another pwBPD.    This one drinks a bit more than I think he should, but he’s learning to self moderate that, thankfully.

The reason I’m telling you this long history is that I do believe it’s possible for some relationships with a BPD partner to be happy. However some people with personality disorders are so dysfunctional that it will be a constant struggle for their partners.

My belief is that only you know what’s best for you and how you want to live your life. There is no heroism in destroying your ability to lead a happy and productive life. You will make the choice that is right for you when you’re ready. In the meantime, learn everything you can by reading and participating here. There are some excellent book recommendations on this site too. Take a look at our community built knowledge base.

[Notwendy]

This is what you seem to be saying- You feel your emotional issues are mostly due to your wife and you would feel better if you were not with her---

Yet, you also don't want to seek therapy because it might lead you to even you deciding you want a divorce.

Without therapy you would still feel like you do, but the idea of divorce is off the table, no need to worry about that.

IMHO, at the bottom of this, the thing you do not want the most is a divorce and also a concern that if you make changes due to therapy, it might lead to one.  Yes, this relationship might be difficult for you, but you choose this over divorce.

I am not being critical of your choices, all relationships are different and what goes on between two people can not be explained from an outside perspective but my hunch is, the fear, or wish to not divorce might be what drives your choices. The patterns between the two of you may be difficult for you, but they are familiar patterns and the unknown, a change, can be unsettling.

[zachira]

Just want to join in on commenting on how a BPD mother seems too overwhelmed to do normal household chores. My mother with BPD cooked dinner and was our chaffeur until we could drive. My father willingly paid for all kinds of outside help even though we weren't rich. Mom hired outside help to babysit, iron clothes, clean the house, do the gardening,etc., My father often talked about being perplexed about mom not doing much and why she needed so much help, though not in a denigrating way. Mom hated to get up to make us breakfast, seemed to always be complaining about all the work she did, surely depressed, and had lots of meltdowns. In retrospect, dad was smart to listen to how incapable mom was of doing normal household chores and taking care of her children. I believe the constant emotional dsyregulation of having BPD is just exhausting, and part of avoiding some of the BPD's emotional meltdowns can be arranging for others to do more of the share of the work of the person with BPD, while not enabling meltdowns she has with you or the children.

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hi Snowflake:
So sorry to hear about your wife's recent episode.

So although the burden is great I must bear it myself, for now. I'm a religious person, and I do think the Almighty created us to face challenges, but not to live a life of suffering.

Consider seeking some religious guidance, from a pastor, priest, or some focal for your religion.  There are a lot of important issues to sort out:
1. Managing your mental health

2. Managing the mental health of your children

3. Considering what your religion says about divorce, how it applies to your situation and which aspects do you accept.  I agree that no one should stay in a situation and endure life-long suffering. 

[Snowflake90]

I left the house today. Feeling terrible but deep down I think I am making the right decision. Cried a lot. Can’t imagine how much she is crying too. But it’s a crazy relationship. I think it was ruining me. I will miss the good moments. But I think when the pain comes I need to remember the bad ones too.
Im at my parents. Any support is greatly appreciated.

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hey Snowflake:
I'm so sorry you are going through such difficult times.  My good thoughts and prayers are heading your way. 

It's good to feel your emotions and work your way through them.  Journaling can be very therapeutic.  It can, also, serve as something to go back to, when you need a reminder about reality.

You haven't had much opportunity for self-care.  Perhaps you can get in some exercise, maybe with friends.  If you have some favorite ways to "Improve The Moment" or "Distress Tolerance" tools - it's a good time to use them. If you need some tools, it can be a good time to gather some.  Breathing exercises can be an easy thing to do.  Music playlists can be good to help process emotions (i.e. Sad music, an angry music, uplifting music, etc.).

Any thoughts about what you might try right now to process your feelings and anxiety?

[Snowflake90]

Thanks guys, I am already feeling much better as yesterday I made some exercise. Nn again huge thanks for the journaling tip, especially as a reality check, whenever I feel like coming back. The FOG is lifting. I think I am seeing things for what they are more and more. Also thank you NN for the thoughts and prayers and everyone for the support. Last night I called my two best friends and they were extremely supportive, offering to come by and whatnot.

[Snowflake90]

Right now I just miss my kids. But the feeling of leaving that hell is undescribable.
I'm slowly healing. My anxiety is a lot better. She's already trying to get me to come back, but I'm being polite and cold, saying I need more time. My T advised me to stall her as much as possible. Because once she "gets it", she's gonna paint me black as some fellow here said. He actually advised me to stay physically distant from her as much as possible. He told me he heard a story from a patient whose wife was BPD and almost cracked his skull with a heavy flower vase. I hope things don't go that way. But one should always proceed with caution.
I need to go back to the house today to pick up more clothes and stuff. Hope things go alright. I'll see the kids but I don't plan on staying long, although I really miss the kids. I think this is going to be a painful process, but nothing compares to staying there. It was hell on earth.  The chores, the FOG (Fear Obligation Guilt), the rationed attention, sex, and whatnot. The crazy demands (Please go to the pharmacy now (8 pm), Please take care of the kids while I go out with a friend, please put the two kids to bed because I'm so tired, etc). The lingering depression, her being moody and/or staying in bed for the whole day. Whew, I really hope I don't get confused anymore. I'm already looking forward to my new life.
I came up with the following statement: "I'd rather be single my whole life than go back". Surely I plan on starting a new relationship in a year or so, but even if I don't, it will be so much better. Thank you all for the support. And for those out there being afraid of being alone, question yourself, would I stand another ten years with this person? In my case, not even a week more.

[Notwendy]

"I'd rather be single my whole life than go back".

This is a good attitude. Being single might not be a first choice, but the ability to be single, be content on your own, to not need a partner for fulfillment is actually a a good place to be in. It's a good goal. That way if someone chooses to be in a relationship, it's from a standpoint of choice, not because they "need" it to feel content or fulfilled.



Surely I plan on starting a new relationship in a year or so,

Stop right there, do not pass GO, do not collect $200...

Did you know that if a person leaves a dysfunctional relationship without processing their part in it, why they chose it, doing important work to recover from the break up, that their chances of repeating the same dynamics with someone else are higher than if they did the work?

This doesn't mean not ever starting a new relationship. It means that doing the work and taking the time to invest in your own recovery from a relationship first is worth it. This doesn't mean you should be fearful or paranoid of anyone you date later, but rebounding from one to the other has risks.

First, get through the resolutions of this relationship, get your kids settled, take care of you... relationship plans can be later.

[Snowflake90]

Wendy, again thanks for the reply.
Indeed no hurries at all, and I've just had a T session, where my T told me exactly that. Hold your horses, YOU chose her, and if you don't heal, you'll choose another one, so think twice before rushing into a new relationship.
Anyway, I do have a lot of work to do now. Settle myself in a new home, go through the divorce (legally), set up custody, logistics with the kids, alimony, etc.
What I meant is, I don't think I have acquired PSTD of new relationships. I'll just take my time to heal, whatever that may be and try to change my way of looking at potential girlfriends/wives. ie. What are desirable traits, what are red flags, etc.
Yesterday I went to the apartment I used to live and it was a bit of emotional. Although I was surprised by how polite she was with me. She even helped me pack and asked me if I needed anything else. I saw my kids which it was at the same time a big relief, but also a great source of grief, imagining that I won't have them by my side, or rather, realizing I'm already not seeing them as much as I used to.
I swam yesterday and today I cycled 18k. Sports help me heal.
She still wants to do couples therapy, but honestly, I'm not very much into it anymore.
Thank you all for the support.

[kells76]

Hey Snowflake90;

Lots going on for you right now... some chapters wrapping up, other chapters starting. You may have already known this, but we have a Divorcing/Coparenting board on bpd family, too!

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?board=10.0

Don't hesitate to post over there as well, or on as many boards as you need, for support.

Cheers;

kells76