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IfNotForYou

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« on: November 19, 2020, 01:13:13 AM »

I don’t know how to open but I’ll do my best. I’m struggling hard  emotionally and in the brink of divorce. I’ve been with my wife for 9  years, married close to 5. I suspect she has BPD. I don’t know for a fact as there has been no actual diagnosis but in everything I’ve read and learned it describes my life almost 100%.  I’ve absolutely caught hints of this almost from year 1 of us being together, only to notice things get progressively worse. I never had a title or anything to label my wife’s behavior as other than deep rage. This never felt normal to me. There were times when she even brought being physical into our relationship. I was dumbfounded the first time it happen. I said after a few more times that it was unacceptable. She never hurt me but the fact that she initiated it or brought our relationship to that level was so hard to grasp or understand. It wasn’t all the time but in a healthy relationship once is too many times. Our fights also began to escalate in severity. In the past we shared a home with roommates. She had absolutely zero cares about screaming at the top of her lungs during a fight. It also didn’t matter the time of night. I was so embarrassed frequently and it almost didn’t even seem to phase her.

We eventually married and moved out on our own. Mind you we’ve had many happy times together and I truly love her, but the more we progressed the worse things eventually seemed to get. I always kinda feared in the back of my head what would happen when we moved out alone. If she acted that way with roommates I worried how she would be in the privacy of our own home with just us. Marriage and looking for a home seemed to distract things for a bit but once that settled things gradually begin to return.

I’m no saint and at this point I’m confused on many levels about my role or what I’m guilty of actually doing. I’ve always been pretty level headed and calm mannered. Screaming matches never made sense even though I’m sure I’ve probably initiated a few at times. We weren’t the same though. I recognized early that she had a very deep seeded rage and anger. The more emphasis I tried to place on it the worse it seemed to become with very little recognition on her part. Anything would have helped. A simple, “ I have anger I need to deal  with and I recognize.” -That never seemed to come. I’d unfortunately fall into this dance and be pulled in. I in return would respond with anger. This fed the cycle. Numerous fights. Many things she’d do would seem so childish to me but I found myself getting sucked in. Defending myself. Logic didn’t seem to work.

I was unhappy with my job after moving and also becoming more and more numb without any understanding of this repeated rut. I began to drink daily. Self medicating. I think subconsciously numbing myself. She during this had a long history of smoking weed. I see now that this combination exacerbated things. We got stuck in a few years of this cycle of numbing ourselves. We’d have a great week together then we’d get into a fight are the drop of a dime about nothing and it would last days or even a week at times. Coming back to eachother became harder and harder. Good week followed by bad week. Screaming, yelling..neighbors being able to hear. I was so embarrassed at times to live in my neighborhood cause I felt everyone probably heard us so often. She always seemed to have no shame at all or recognition about what anyone thought. Including me. When we where good we were great together..but when we where bad it was dark. This became our life.

2020 really hit the hardest on our relationship. We were forced to coexist under lockdown. It eventually came to a head and has been months of fighting. Raging. I’ve gotten much wise and better about all of this. I’ve quit drinking for months now. I realized how much I was not helping myself or our issues. I decided a clear head was needed and I had to be the best version of me. I switched jobs as well. I’m overall a very positive and easygoing person...but my home life is a whole other story. I miserable. So is she. Divorce has been mentioned soo many times I lost count. It looks like it will currently become our reality. It is NOT what I want and I’ve said this many times in the past few months. I’ve made an effort to try my best to be calm and not feed this. I e told her I will fight for our marriage. I mean it. However I am absolutely hurting inside and soo worn out from all her actions and the lack of any accountability.

Everything at this point somehow seems to get flipped around on me and I’m currently to blame for why we are here according to her. I wasn’t there for her she says. Mind you I always have been, I just didn’t know how to be. She hasn’t been able to understand her role in all this and how downright hurtful and damaging she has been with her behavior. I can’t take full blame for all this and anytime conversation begins it immediately goes in circles cause I refuse to be the scapegoat. I want her to meet me halfway and fight for his marriage but she just seems to refuse to at this point and blames me. Everything I try to tell her about gets turned right back on me. I literally feel like I’m losing my mind and questioning my reality and if I did do these things she claims.

She has a great personality around her friends and has a high functioning job. It’s like i am the only one who sees this side of her. It’s gotten to the point that she spends more time out with friends than me. I say constantly be present, be here, do this with me and let’s fix us together. It quickly goes nowhere and in circles. I want her to care so much. I want the good version of us to be all the time. I want us to stay married. I don’t think she wants any of these things anymore. Her actions show she doesn’t want to be bothered. I’m dumbfounded and still in disbelief that she seems to be giving up on us so easily. But if you ask her she’ll say it’s been ongoing and I neglected her and haven’t given her what she needed. She hasn’t given me what I needed either in years! Why can’t we work on this though? I’m a work in progress and not perfect but I’m not a bad person at all. I never cheated on her, never hit her, always kept a job and bills paid..all marriages go through hard times but there has to be equal effort and willingness to work on things to get better. I’m not getting any of this from her. I’m at the point I’m thinking it may be time to throw the towel in. I can’t convince someone to be with me. I love her so much but I feel tortured and alone and can’t get her to recognize her role in all this. I’m at the point where I think it really may be me but then I also think somehow this has been manipulated and twisted by her into making me feel that way. So confused ..barely at the tip of the iceberg in trying to understand this. I don’t even know factually if she does have BPD but I almost feel certain she does.. I really don’t know what to do but I’m glad I found this website. I have nobody to talk to about this nor is it an easy thing to understand.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2020, 01:25:49 AM by IfNotForYou » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2020, 02:12:36 AM »

hi IfNotForYou, and Welcome

youre on a strong path. you nixed out the over drinking. youre trying to tackle this.

the short, simple answer, (if not overly short and simple) is that you need to understand things from her perspective in order to repair them. in general, and in practice, that can take some time and some work. while our loved ones are prone to over emoting, and distorting, there tend to be real and valid concerns underneath. in her case, it sounds like there is some resentment, particularly around this "you haven been there" thing. you dont have to agree with her, and its obvious youve given your all to this relationship, but understanding what exactly she means by this, is going to be critical to reviving this relationship.

but you also need a willing person in the equation. if shes committed to divorce, it is what it is. from your story, its hard to say how much shes leaning toward it.
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IfNotForYou

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« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2020, 12:30:38 PM »

Thanks for the feedback.

I’m still open to trying to understand her side and accept how she may feel. The problem for me is that it ONLY seems to be her side and an over emphasis on how it’s caused all this. I need to also have my feelings validated and acknowledged in respect to how she has handled herself over the years and the harm it’s done. It plays a huge role in how I’ve chose to react in many situations.

I’m asking to take the blame with me but it feels more like she wants me to constantly be in debt to her needs or where I fell short. Going the extra mile at this point is extremely hard to do for someone that gives me so little to work with.

Also the way divorce is used seems to almost be a tool for leverage by her. Yes I’ve said it before out of shear frustration but I’ve explained and apologized. I’ve said numerous times recently that it’s not what I want but if she is set in getting divorced I’ll agree to it. It’s complicated but at this point it does feel like she wants that. I still think deep down she loves me but I just don’t know if that’s enough given our history. I’m still open and interested in working this out but like I said the effort has to be reciprocated. I’m not sure it has been for months now. Maybe I’m just finally coming to terms with that on here. Not an easy thing..

I don’t expect any game changing advice or anything to magically fix my situation but I appreciate the feedback. It does help shed more light and understanding on things.. thank you
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« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2020, 03:54:27 AM »

this likely will never be a "fair" relationship in terms of give and take, mutual understanding, etc.

you love a difficult person.

that is not to say the relationship cant improve. it is to suggest realistic expectations in terms of what the relationship can be, and what it cant be. being able to do so is part of what gives the relationship its best shot.

but frankly, when a relationship has devolved to the point where divorce is on the horizon, that sort of breakdown in communication is normal. one or both parties may be unable or unwilling to hear the other.

think about it. lets say that you and i were best friends and i told you i wanted to end our friendship. i would have reached that decision after a lot of thinking, a lot of grieving, a lot of highs and lows, and if i was serious about it, i would have concluded there was no going back (not saying shes at that point). hearing your side of things, or acknowledging your points, just wouldnt be my priority.

what do you think might be her priority?
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IfNotForYou

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« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2020, 02:08:37 PM »

Well there are certainly some poignant truths in your response. I can’t say that it sits well with me but I can say I respect and appreciate the bluntness to it. Basically, in an unbiased way...this is your situation for what it is. What would you like to do about it?

I needed to hear that. I understand your a stranger to me and I’m not expecting a miracle. I couldn’t fully explain this situation to my family even if I try...but this community is based on people who “DO” understand, and that much is like coming up for air for the first time after being underwater for what feels like an eternity.

Thank you.

To answer your question... I think the simple answer is my wife wants to be happy. I haven’t been able to meet those needs in the way she claims. She’s suffered for a long time and I only just began to realize the enormity of this recently. I always saw the rage but never had an actual idea where or why it was so consistent till recently.

But...she wants happiness. She’s surrounding herself with people (friends) that give her that connection. I can’t fault her for that. I want happiness too. I do worry though that these friends also don’t understand the full depth of the situation. I also get resentful cause we are still married and I’m just nowhere near being a priority. To the point she won’t make time to even discuss how we move forward from here.

I get mad cause i personalize all this. I feel quit on. I’m sure she felt quit on but it was never my intention. Mental Illness or trauma is not something a partner always understands or knows how to handle. I was that person. I did t understand for years why she was how she was cause at times we had very good moments as well. But the bad kept resurfacing till it boiled over this year while locked down. We had nothing but time on our hands to deal with eachother. This seemed to exacerbate moods.

Not sure where I was completely going with this. It’s easy to get off topic cause there’s so many emotions surfacing.
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« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2020, 01:50:22 AM »

Excerpt
Basically, in an unbiased way...this is your situation for what it is. What would you like to do about it?

thats Radical Acceptance in a nutshell, though maybe more cynically than id put it  Smiling (click to insert in post) . im an optimist when it comes to these relationships, but realistic expectations are critical. i empathize, more than ive expressed, what you are going through. it sucks. its a nightmare. the prospect hangs over you like a weight that wont go away, and all you really want to do is do your best here, and keep your marriage intact.

i also know that if saving the marriage is your goal, in order to do so, your hurt cannot rule the way you interact with her.

im speaking to empathy.

to get anywhere, you have to first and foremost understand where shes coming from, and then act accordingly.

and i get that that feels, and is unfair, when shes not understanding, or willing to understand where you are coming from.

its hard to understand another persons point of view when you feel hurt by that person. you also arent the person threatening divorce. if you were, you wouldnt be very interested in understanding her point of view, either. realistically, you have to be the bigger, more emotionally mature person in the equation. dont bottle your hurt in, or deny it...use the appropriate outlets.

a long time member here wasnt in exactly the same situation, but he came to a point in his relationship where the question was "do i end my relationship or do i make myself more attractive".

its a question i encourage you to grapple with, on a number of levels. you arent thrilled with this relationship. i remember wanting to leave my relationship, on and off, for the entirety of it, but when my partner left me, it rocked my world. that same member also said good mental health is about making hard choices. assess, with no ambiguity, what your motivations are to save this relationship.

when you do, the choice becomes a lot clearer (not necessarily easier).

and if, after doing so, you determine that you are committed to saving your marriage, then assess what its going to take, if its possible. grapple with what "make myself more attractive" means, in your particular case. it will almost certainly not entail bringing her to your line of thinking. understand what broke things down (from your perspective, but also hers), and what is going to change. it wasnt your lack of understanding about mental illness - every single one of us have been there. it isnt her being influenced by friends; as much as i can imagine it worries you, and while im sure it isnt helping, that is not the gulf between you.

it may feel backwards, and it may, at times make you even more resentful. but to give this its best possible shot, you have to see this from her point of view in order to resolve it.

and hang in there. while things may not look great, there are some clear signs she isnt done.
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IfNotForYou

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« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2020, 07:07:07 PM »

Once Removed..thank you. Your insight has been eye opening so far and helped me see things from an alternate angle.

I have actually made a big breakthrough today.

It started of with her attacking verbally. I fed it a bit out of shear frustration. It’s been really building up. It’s almost like she speaks in code at times and I’m starting to read between the lines. Almost like opposites if that makes sense?

Today it was her vocalizing how much thanksgiving was going to suck and how our current state is so predictable and such a let down. I think really what she was saying was I really need tomorrow not to be a disappointment or a let down.

It’s so confusing but I’m trying.

She raged as she left for work. Mind you this is the most communication in over a week. I’ve been blocked. She continued to rage and harass with follow up negative text messages. I only responded with one text. I said basically “ How bout I try to be the person you need me to be right now instead of us continuing this?”

She responded and surprised me with an ok. She did put a timeframe on how many days she will give it though, and if she doesn’t see a difference in me that she won’t be surprised and basically we will be back to where we are currently headed. Separation.

This is a mindfu*k for me cause I’m aware I have to make changes but if she was only aware of how much hurt and nonsense she has put me through and could see how destructive her behavior is we wouldn’t probably even be in this position!

Deep breath. The little voice in my head kicked in. The tools I am learning here. I may be furious and hurt and want to rightfully blame her but as you said, EMPATHY. How can I make myself more attractive. This is hard. Real hard. But I’m gonna try. I’m gonna try to allow her to have what ever she’s feeling without putting my two sense in. Right or wrong. Because I have to at least see if this yields better results. Arguing and defending myself has obviously not worked at all.

My question now is where do I go from here? What does a good initial road to recovery look like for her right now? How do I make myself available to her needs without losing myself?

My main focus right now for starters  is to get through tonight and thanksgiving peacefully and allow us to slowly make our way back to talking and at the least getting along. Hopefully even dare I say have a good day together tomorrow.

Not gonna lie. I’m scared immensely right now that I’m gonna say or do something wrong and she’s gonna get triggered then I’m gonna lose my cool. I’m gonna try to be extra mindful and not feed anything and walk away if this begins to happen. Take a pause and come back to it.

I really just don’t know where to begin tonight when I see her in person. ..Do I ease into this or do I say, “ let it out” to her? “Tell me what you need from me?” I’m gonna try my best to figure this out and approach this in a different light. Unfortunately there is only so much new information  I can remember and retain  in one day before my brain becomes more mush than it already is.

Wish me luck. I have no idea how this next day or two is gonna go. I’m hoping it’s a new bridge in rebuilding our marriage and life. Baby steps for now. Any feedback always appreciated! Be well and have a good thanksgiving
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« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2020, 11:11:36 AM »

In reading through this thread there is so much that speaks very close to my own situation.  I've known my wife for 12 years and we have been married for 2.5 years. I've been seeing an individual therapist for about a year, once a week, and recently found out about BPD and this community through that work. 

I guess my question in reading this correspondence is when does trying to view her perspective go too far?  What initially brought me to therapy was that I was having trouble trusting my own perceptions.  I've learned that my relationship with my wife is largely built on placating to her irrational perceptions that I've never fully understood, but would agree with her and accept blame for situations in order to avoid escalation and increased conflict and personal hurt.  Eventually, the blame that I've agreed to accept, broke me.  I understand now that while her feelings of abandonment are extremely valid and real, the facts do not always support that my actions are the direct cause of how she is feeling. This has been a fine line and difficult to explain to my wife as I am learning that because if it is BPD, she truly cannot comprehend the difference. Often times it is her own direct actions that create situations that are so incredibly painful for her to admit that out of an act of survival it seems like she must attribute the pain to being the fault of someone else.  I think this is a tactic that she's used all her life to suppress suicidal thoughts.

I want to learn and understand what I could potentially gain, if I delve back into considering her perspective, albeit irrational.  The risk for manipulation is extremely high, but if I can I help her with this I want to understand all options. 

Thank you all for your insight and help, 
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« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2020, 01:50:56 AM »

I think really what she was saying was I really need tomorrow not to be a disappointment or a let down.

i think this is a good read on it.

stress, in general, is what people with bpd traits tend to struggle with the most. the holidays are inherently stressful. i dont have bpd traits and i dread them  Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post) .

and stress brings out the worst, and the distortions, and the dysregulations.

you dont get caught up in those things (easier said than done)...you look past the distortions, the accusations, the name calling, whatever it may be, for whats really up.

its been a few days. any update?
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« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2020, 05:12:08 PM »

@IfNotForYou

BPD is a mental illness, it impacts anyone who had an invalidating childhood. See when parents constantly invalidate a child, the child does not stop loving his/her parent, instead he/she starts hating himself/herself.

Fast forward life, you have an adult who is so emotionally immature that they swing between anger and depression. There are some lull times — when things are going exactly their way. But we know it, life has its ups and downs and with that it needs two mature adult to sail their life to happiness and bliss, and dodge difficult and stressful times.

I can totally understand your feelings and the situation you're going through. I think it's many times more tougher than mine. Lately, I have been learning and learning, and changing myself, because that's all you can do, you can't change the BPD person a bit. Change only happens, when there is acceptance and accountability and BPDs don't have any.

This is what I have learnt.

- BPD hate themselves (because of their childhood trauma) and because of it, far often then not they feel like nothing (completely empty). They fantasize things like a little kid, and healthy adults know that fantasies are not true. They are impulsive and make wrong choices once in a while (just like little kids) but if you confront them, first they explode then they go in depression.

- They have double-standards. They want you to love them unconditionally but in return they are unable to give love back.

- They are good with their friends and if you listen to their conversation, you would find them giving sound advise on marital issues to their friends. You go bonkers as to why this same person can not talk for a few minutes keeping their emotions in control. Reason is, it's all a show, so other people think of them being great, so in return they can tell themselves, "see I'm a great person, my partner has issues, it's all his fault."

If you want to save your marriage then have as little as contact as possible. Treat her like a child. Give her love and not expect anything in return. If you get something back, cherish that day. When you talk, speak in small sentences (non-emotional stuff). Flattery is the main key, I am learning. Flatter them and they feel puffed up and energetic.

In my case, I have bent my back so much that it is going to break. I work and she stays home taking care of kids. No doubt she's good in cooking and organizational skills and every now and then I appreciate her but whatever I do or say, it's never enough to please her. She always finds something to be angry with me. She constantly nitpicks on stuff and though I have gotten so much better but still she breaks through my patience on occasions.

She spends my money and don't even want me to ask where did she spent it. Lately, as she is aging, she is getting deep into expensive makeup stuff. I have not said anything or stopped her but she made a big deal that I'm not noticing her beauty skin. Smiling (click to insert in post)

Like I said, things were getting better and I was letting go of her nitpick, don't ask her anything about her spending but this other day, she started saying negative things for every thing I said. I made a grave mistake, I asked her, "honey, you seem upset, is there anything I can help you with?" This sentence give her the license to go full throttle on how inconsiderate I am that I can't comment or say anything about how wonderful she looks or how good her skin is.

Even though I said, thanks for letting me know, you look fantastic and yeah, I'd been busy lately and not been able to say much but I'll give feedback once in a while.

I'm always agreeable and seek to resolve conflicts, she on the other hand dig conflicts to she can spew her insecurity, hatred, and anger towards me. This way she does not have to look at her shortcomings but target and blame me. Sometime she literally accuse me the stuff that she exactly does. It seems funny but it's extremely hurtful.

It's been more than a week, she is still holding on to that grudge. Her body language is dismissive. Her answers are short and condescending and today I asked her again (lost my patience) if everything is OK and the same episode repeated.

I'd say stay strong. You're not alone. This world is full of inconsiderate people. May God bless all of us that are going through this turbulent phase of our lives. Amen!
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