Working on getting better while she gets worse

[RestlessWanderer]

Lately I’ve been trying to do my best at detaching myself from the blame and FOG, and keeping myself balanced by maintaining a healthy perspective. However, I’m watching what stress is doing to my wife’s body. She believes that I am intentionally doing things out of spite. She believes that I have treated her badly. She tells me that her therapist is encouraging her to now do to me what she thinks I did to her. To what end? I don’t know.

Even though I have never accepted her narrative, my compassionate side hates to see what’s happening knowing that she believes what she’s saying. I know that there is nothing I can do or say to change this. I don’t think that there’s anything that I can say or do to even make her feel supported.

If I let her know that I care about her and don’t want her to suffer, she responds by saying I don’t care. She says that if I did care I wouldn’t do those things. I definitely can’t dispute her claims, that will only make her feel invalidated and start an argument. If I try to work hard to show that I am actually working to help her, she begins to see that my behavior can be manipulated.

I try to just remain consistent in how I make decisions. I am learning to be steadfast and unwavering with my boundaries. It can be hard to maintain confidence that I am not the cause of her problems when I see what stress is doing to her

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[once removed]

what is the ongoing stressor for your wife?

what things does she believe you are doing out of spite?

[formflier]

Compare the time you spend observing your wife's stress/and it's effects and the stress in your own life and it's effects.

Best,

FF

[RestlessWanderer]

It’s hard for me to understand what she is so stressed about.

These are some of the things I can think of.  She likes a clean house, but doesn’t like how I clean, yet she’s “making a point” by not doing any cleaning and in some ways creating more mess. She worries about how well we are stocked up on our supplies due to COVID, and stresses because I haven’t done a good job at keeping things stocked like she wants (mixed messages: “I’ll take care of it” then “why haven’t you taken care of it?”). She stressed over some of the lingering insurance/legal issues related to her accident last year, but won’t accept help. Notice a theme?

FF, there is a big difference between how I handle stress and how she handles it. I don’t really get too stressed out. I handle issues as they come, I pay bills, do my work. Though my posts on here may paint the picture of me being stressed and/or worried about a lot, I really don’t carry it around with me too much. I’ll put it this way, I have no trouble falling asleep.

[I Am Redeemed]

If I could guess, I would think that her stress is due to things that have happened that she can't control...such as the loss of your child in the accident.

I think it's tied to trauma and she seems to be trying to control whatever she can. It may be fear of things she can't control. It may be trying to prevent bad things from happening by controlling minutiae.

Trauma victims tend to see the world as unsafe and attempts to control can be a way to manage the anxiety of that.

[RestlessWanderer]

Redeemed, I couldn’t agree more. It’s unfortunate that either she has a therapist that accepts her blaming me and encourages her to pay it back, or she is taking away what she wants to hear and is focusing on that. Either way she is not owning her behavior.

[formflier]

Redeemed, I couldn’t agree more. It’s unfortunate that either she has a therapist that accepts her blaming me and encourages her to pay it back, or she is taking away what she wants to hear and is focusing on that. Either way she is not owning her behavior.

Do you know this for a fact or are you accepting her word on this?

Best,

FF

[RestlessWanderer]

Do you know this for a fact or are you accepting her word on this?

Best,

FF

That’s a good question. I have not verified that she even has a therapist

[formflier]

Next time she brings it up.

"Babe..this sounds important.  When can we discuss this together with your T so there are misunderstandings?"


Best,

FF

[RestlessWanderer]

Not sure if I did this well or not.

I should start by saying that the last 4.5 days were really nice. No fighting, no insults, quality time together, she even let things roll off that normally would have triggered her. But something happened tonight to make things do a180.

She decided this afternoon that she would run in to town to look for some deals and do a little shopping. Things were still ok then. I think her pain, lack of sleep, and possibly other events that bothered her while she was out changed her mood. When she got home she was noticeably aggravated. I stayed out of her way but offered to help put away the groceries. She wanted to do it herself since I “don’t put things away right.”

So I sat back down to continue working on a Christmas gift I’m going to make for her. As she was putting things away in the fridge she got triggered because I hadn’t cleaned things to her standards. But she chose the passive aggressive route this time. She left all of the empty grocery bags and the handful of items she took out of the fridge right in the middle of the kitchen for me to clean up. But she didn’t say a word about them when she locked herself in the bedroom.

She shouted out a couple things from the bedroom that were bothering her, but that didn’t amount to much. I did end my participation in one of those conversations when she started to insult me. I told her we could talk about it later, but I wasn’t going to stick around for the insults.
A couple of hours later she came out and found the mess still there. She started screaming at me about the mess. I kept my cool but had to talk loudly as I told her that I would be happy to clean it up, if she asked. This got her even more mad and the insults started flying. She picked it all up while she screamed. But I decided I needed to set a boundary there.

So, I’m hoping that though she really blew up at me and threatened divorce, I did well by standing my ground when my boundaries were crossed. I didn’t give in just to pacify her. Now I just have to maintain that resolve.

[formflier]

I think you did good.  Changed the dynamic.  You did NOT try to mind read and appease (like cleaning it up without being asked)

No criticism here, just ideas to consider, trial and error will be the only way to know if these ideas help.

It's usually a good idea to "get on her team..emotionally" or perhaps..."be on her side".   But remember, be between her and neutral..

So..if she is "mad, upset, whatever"...be on that spectrum as well, just not as much.

So...from that point of view, when she is ticked...don't express that you are "happy" to do things.

When she came home agitated.  "How was shopping?"  (not..."did you have a good time..or bad time").

If she is grumpy..."Not the best morning here either (pause) want to hang out for a while"

another version more about her might be  "crowds are draining, want to hang out for a while" 

her "no..I've got to get these things put away"

you "I'm available.."  (not I'm available to help, that can cue her up to "you are no help")

perhaps this helps keeps things more on the rails.  If she starts directly insulting you

"ouch...that hurts"  walk away.

Switching gears:  Does she often shout from the bedroom?  Why not just wait till she comes out and perhaps tell her so..once.

"Babe...I'm having a hard time hearing, I'll be in (name room away from bedroom) when you want to chat."

I love that you left the stuff. 

If she had asked nicely...sure, help her.  You walked away from nasty..I like that.

Best,

FF

[RestlessWanderer]

Thanks FF
It’s was hard not to participate in the argument. I felt my heart rate rise, my breathing increase, and nearly started to shake. But by being mindful of those sensations I controlled my words and tried to do my best to not be clouded by my emotions.

No criticism here, just ideas to consider, trial and error will be the only way to know if these ideas help.

It's usually a good idea to "get on her team..emotionally" or perhaps..."be on her side".   But remember, be between her and neutral..

So..if she is "mad, upset, whatever"...be on that spectrum as well, just not as much.

So...from that point of view, when she is ticked...don't express that you are "happy" to do things.

When she came home agitated.  "How was shopping?"  (not..."did you have a good time..or bad time").

If she is grumpy..."Not the best morning here either (pause) want to hang out for a while"

another version more about her might be  "crowds are draining, want to hang out for a while" 

her "no..I've got to get these things put away"

you "I'm available.."  (not I'm available to help, that can cue her up to "you are no help")

perhaps this helps keeps things more on the rails.  If she starts directly insulting you

"ouch...that hurts"  walk away.

Misery loves company

Switching gears:  Does she often shout from the bedroom?  Why not just wait till she comes out and perhaps tell her so..once.

"Babe...I'm having a hard time hearing, I'll be in (name room away from bedroom) when you want to chat."

Yes, she does this often. If you remember she got upset with me recently because my son and I couldn’t hear her shouting for us. Much frustration comes from this. I will definitely take your advice on this one.

RW

[formflier]

Hey..when you feel a physical reaction I want you to practice deep cleansing breathing.  Several deep ones and blow it all out.

Use this time to think.


Now...why would you be frustrated that your wife isn't heard, when she communicates when you are not around?  (think about this)

Then...think about a very short response, next time this happens.

Best,

FF

[RestlessWanderer]

That’s good advice FF, and good food for thought.

I have a question for you. Now that I enforced my boundary, and she’s in rampage mode (as was to be expected) do you have, any advice on handling and maintaining some semblance of communication during this storm?

[formflier]

I have a question for you. Now that I enforced my boundary, and she’s in rampage mode (as was to be expected) do you have, any advice on handling and maintaining some semblance of communication during this storm?

Sure...find a quiet corner and call a buddy or two, or perhaps family that you need to catch up with.

Or perhaps call them while on a nice peaceful walk.

Best,

FF

[RestlessWanderer]

Since my last post my W has continued to cling to the idea that I did something horrible by leaving the pile of bags and trash in the kitchen. She’s go so far to say by doing that I ruined her plans to have a date night. Which is kinda funny considering she had locked herself in the bedroom until 5AM when she came out and discovered the mess. Anyway, I’ve been holding steady and any time she’s decided to call me names I walk away and tell her that I’m not going to listen if she’s going to talk to me that way. Overall she’s kept this negative tone, but I’ve maintained a positive attitude. I used to just shy away and keep to myself, but now I’m continuing to live as if she’s just being grumpy. In other words, I’m trying not to make things worse by continuing to do what I feel is necessary and appropriate, without getting tied up guessing what she wants me to do.
I think this is a big change from how I used to handle her negative downswings.
Oh I’ve also not jumped to help her clear up the issue regarding her latest accident. She’s claiming that she told me to file a claim and told me what to say. I didn’t argue about this, nor did I jump to appease her. Again, a change from my norm.

I hope I’m taking steps in the right direction. It’s hard to tell since she insists on remaining in this negative, depressive, and essentially combative state (figuratively not literally, thank God).

[formflier]

She can file claims and she can give her own testimony (if I remember right you were not involved/witness)

Good job picking a new path.

I wish I heard details about how you are being deliberate about self care. 

When she is negative...double up on taking care of you.  For me I did extra stretching/light exercise and maybe a bonus hot bath.  Find something that makes you feel pampered and do it for yourself.

Best,

FF

[RestlessWanderer]

I’m taking good care of myself in a few different ways. I escape to the trailer and listen to and watch what I like. I contact my friends without worrying about comments related to me being on my phone. I feel fulfillment and satisfaction by completing challenging jobs around the house (like changing the alternator on my car, or replacing a leaking gasket on our toilet, etc). I just started working on making different wooden art pieces.

So despite the negativity, I find ways to keep myself happy and healthy.

[RestlessWanderer]

Trash pile/ take two:

Last night my wife threw out two bags of garbage from the bedroom. Not a word was spoken, one bag she actually threw. I didn’t touch them. This morning I get an email from her regarding the bags basically stating that she put them there because I asked if she had any garbage.
Fact check: I asked her on Tuesday night (the night before the garbage gets picked up) if she had any. She responded to this by saying “I don’t know, did you check?” So I did just that.
So her just throwing them out a day later doesn’t seem to me like she was responding to my request, especially since she saw me go in and empty the cans.
This appears to be just like last week when she left a mess for me to pick up without saying a word. I didn’t pick that up for that reason and the same thing goes for this new pile (at least this was bagged).
I see this as another opportunity to enforce a boundary. If I pick it up now without her respectfully asking me to then I think I would be giving her intermittent reinforcement.

Am I on the right track?
Should I respond to her email? If so, what should/shouldn’t be said?

(I feel kind of silly asking about whether or not I should pick up garbage, but I think this is a way to stand up for myself and break a pattern of disrespectful behavior, especially by not giving intermittent reinforcement)

[formflier]

Generally better to stay away from email.  They can go back and review your "misdeeds" over and over.

Don't clean it up.

How did your other boundaries resolved (where you didn't clean up)?

Best,

FF

[RestlessWanderer]

Thanks for the quick response FF.

She cleaned up the mess last time.

So email is not an option. Do you think I should say something, as I’m sure she’ll bring it up?

[Cat Familiar]

I’d wait for her to bring it up. She may not.

Good that you held firm with your boundary and she cleaned up her mess. 

[formflier]

Ditto what Cat F said.  Let her bring it up.

Be curious/perplexed with whatever she brings up surrounding your undone chores.

Any suggestions or solutions should be very very broad, there is nothing you should suggest to solve this particular mess.

perhaps

"Hmm..babe, are you asking for a discussion about how household chores are divided?"

Your head is in the right general direction.  I know this feels weird.  Good job bringing up issues so we can help you tweak.

Best,

FF

[RestlessWanderer]

You’re right, this does feel a little weird.
I’m sure the next time she comes out of the room and sees the bags there she will get upset again. And if I’m there she will let me know that she’s bugged.
I’m not sure what an appropriate response would be.
How about “I didn’t pick it up because you threw it there without asking me to take care of it.”
Simple and straightforward. BIFF

[formflier]

 
I’m not sure what an appropriate response would be.
How about “I didn’t pick it up because you threw it there without asking me to take care of it.”
Simple and straightforward. BIFF

NOO

If she threw it and asked and then slammed the door...would you really pick it up?  Please tell me no.

Don't explain her mistakes...don't overfunction for her.  

Practice (seriously) what a quizzical look on your face looks like (yes in the mirror)

Try that for a bit when she starts harrumphing.

The..in a sly way, make offers and bids for her attention and togetherness.  "We could take them out together and keep going for a walk?"  (plus you are doing something together, you carry a bag and she carries a bag.  Dude..get away from the servant attitude, especially when she does NOT appreciate it)

Big question:  How has explaining how she should act and your reasons gone before?  

Best,

FF

 

[formflier]

Hey...help me get the vibe.

How much time does she spent locked in her room (or just away in her room)?

Average day?

Average week?  (how many days per week)

Month? 

Trying to get a vibe of how this behavior cycles.

Listen:  We all know that if we hide away from others...we don't get the benefits of relationship.  I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you have overfunctioned and "saved her" from this reality.  (how close am I ? )

Best,

FF

[RestlessWanderer]

FF, I see your point. By the way, she finally put the bags out where the garbage goes.

Your question about how she reacts to explanation was posed by my T this morning. He asked how successful I’ve been at getting her to see things. 0% success rate

She spends most of her time at home locked in the room. She will come out in the evening or late afternoon to spend time with our son then lock herself back in the room once he goes to bed. She also finds some reason to go to town nearly every day (but complains about being trapped inside these four walls every day, as well as complaining about me not taking her anywhere). When we’re getting along the door is usually open and she spends more time with us. She is usually up all night and doesn’t fall asleep until dawn. She says that she has been spending time working on taking care of issues related to the accident (which is unfortunately causing her to retell the events of that day, undoubtedly difficult and traumatic for her). She had been doing schoolwork too, but recently declared that she wasn’t going to do any more, blaming my lack of support.

She finally asked me to file a claim for her latest accident, adding that I had ignored her initial request for me to do this (false, she told me not to do anything after the accident).

[formflier]

What did you tell her her when she asked to file the claim?

What would you imagine your T's advice would be?

What would you imagine my advice will be?

Best,

FF

[kells76]

Hey RW;
Wish I could remember where, but on one of these boards someone made the comment that people who have been traumatized and/or abused often have huge difficulty sleeping during the night and have day sleep / night wake routines, because nighttime has historically been dangerous for them.
IDK if that is helpful, and it certainly isn't an excuse or the only explanation, but it could be info for you to use as you notice your W's habits.
My mom has said she has c-PTSD from childhood abuse. She napped during the day and was awake super late as long as I can remember.
Hang in there;
kells76

[RestlessWanderer]

I made a judgement call to help her since she asked and she is ding a lot for the other issues related to the claims for her and our deceased son.
It may not have been what others would have advised, but in my shoes you may have decided the same thing.
It’s one thing to not be a doormat, but helping when asked is something else.