Bpd mom who tries to pit my sister and I against eachother

[Motherof3Az]

My mom is the one with BPD and I need some guidance here for how my sister and I can deal with an issue we are having.

The problem we have & have struggled with tackling is that whenever my mom has a conflict with me, she runs to my sister and demands 100% support and for my sister to blindly side with her and partake in bashing me. She expects the same from me when she has a conflict with my sister.

We both remain neutral and either tell her we aren’t going to get involved in the conflict, or we try (and fail) to encourage our mom to approach the conflict in a more productive way than just raging at the sister that she happens to be upset with.  Because, when she rages, nothing is out of bounds to her. She will do everything she can to cut us down - even to the point of insulting our children - her grandchildren she has in the past told me that both my daughters are “ugly and dumb” (imagine saying that about a baby!) because she knew that would break my heart and that was her goal.

She will twist things around anytime she is relaying the conflict to either of us, so that it’s twisted in her favor and so that it’s more likely that we will agree with her and validate her rage. It used to work but it doesn’t anymore because we are aware of her manipulation tactics.  She will say things like “I have no idea why you have such clout with your sister” or “I thought my daughters were my friends” etc and then go into a sob story about how we all think we are better than her (we don’t), how the world is against her, how we basically need to refrain from calling her out on anything she does that’s toxic because she is living a hard life and has depression.

What is the best way to set a boundary with her so that we can protect ourselves from this vicious cycle? I don’t know what else to do. I’m firm in being neutral when she wants me to talk badly about my sister, but it doesn’t prevent her from texting literally hundreds of messages to me until her rage is over. I feel badly about ignoring anyone, let alone my own mother, even though it’s not healthy for me to engage in an argument with her where she will never care about my feelings or how I’m affected by her behavior. In the end, her texts about how she should just kill herself or that she wishes her and our kid sister (the only child of hers who is still a minor and living with her) were dead because “there is no love” from us for them. I know she’s manipulating me but at the same time I feel bad for her and don’t want her to suffer with the depression alone and to not have anyone to talk to... my adult sister and I are almost the only ones she has, so if I were to ignore the abusive texts, I feel like a bad person because then she has no one to talk to and I’m not wanting her to feel isolated.

Anyone going through something similar? I don’t think anyone else understands why I can’t just cut my mom off. I want to but the thought really crushes me because it would be like grieving a death... I want her to have a relationship with my kids and I want to have a good relationship with her. I would feel like a horrible person if I cut her off from her grandchildren.

[beatricex]

hi Motherof3AZ,

I can really hear your genuine concern for your mom.  That is a good quality to have.  When was the last time you remember having that level of concern for you?

When were you last kind to yourself, and decided, whether you voiced it or not, to put up a boundary.

For example, "mom, I understand you feel you have no one else but me and my sister...but, these exchanges are very manipulative, and I feel, not healthy for me.  Let me know when you want to have a conversation that is calm...doesn't bring my kids into the dialogue...doesn't hurt...

when you rage at me, I feel XYZ (I shutdown, I cannot think, I feel you're putting your needs before mine, etc)

Also, you don't even have to have the convo with your Mom, I found having it with my therapist (pretending my Mom was sitting across from me) was just as powerful.
 

b

[kiwigal]

My experience is that the BPD will play off your sense of goodwill. Your situation reminds me of aspects of my own... a dishing out of 'status' in order to keep the relationships revolving around her. She seems to do this using triangulation and you are aware of this and work hard to stay centred. Reading what you wrote above, it sounds like you are doing incredible! You are staying within your core values, recognising that you can't change her, identifying the toxic behaviour and depersonalising it, knowing what your boundaries are for calling 'enough.'
I would encourage you to back yourself. ie., continue to walk in your values and be confident that you are actually doing amazing.

In learning to back myself I found it helpful to identify three to four one-liner pushbacks that simply reinforced my boundary. I imagine the toxic scenario arising and saying the pushback. I imagine the ensuing rage and tears (that we know comes) and then just calmly given my empathic response and walking away. It helps to build a pathway of resilience in what has been a traumatic road.

So, for example, when she rages and gets personal you could say;
"I want to understand you but I find it hard to listen when I feel you are being disrespectful of others/me. If you carry on that way, I'm going to have to walk away and come back to you later. Could we try again?"
If she carries on...
"I'm sorry mum I'm going to have to go but I will come back to you in (XYZ) time and we can try again". 
She will naturally rant, rage and go on a slime campaign but the repeated behaviour will eventually get through.

Also, can you talk to your sister openly about the behaviour and have an agreed plan?
 

[zachira]

Many of us who have mothers with BPD understand and feel sorry for the challenges you and your sister are having with your mother with BPD. My mother with BPD died in 2019. The last few years of my mother's life, I had to cut the conversations short whenever the conversations became inappropriate. As a compassionate person, it hurt me to treat my mother this way, as I love to be kind and listen. I came to realize that listening to mom's venting and blaming others was not good for my mother, for me or other people, and it just escalated her episodes of emotional dysregulation. I think you and your sister may want to establish stricter boundaries with your mother.

[Resiliant]

 

I really hope you don't mind me posting here.  I am from the board of parents with (adult) children with BPD.  The only reason that I am reading posts here is to learn what my children may be coping with so that I can be empathetic towards their situation.

I do believe my ex (who is the father of both my children) has BPD, but I am not into ex-bashing and I say this with a heavy heart since I didn't realize what it was before our marriage ended.  Even though I am in an amazing relationship now with someone much more suited to myself it hurts to see what has happened to him since I have been gone.  My ex is a good man, honest as the day is long but he does suffer so many BPD traits that I now recognize since learning about BPD.   Too much to say not related to this post.

What I do want to say to you, is that I have seen this play out between my daughter and my son.  The difference is that they did become pitted against each other.  Not as much because of what dad said about them but more to do with how he treats them differently.

This is what I feel that I need to say to you based on my experience with him and my son:

It is SO awesome that you and your sister recognize this and are strong together.
At the same time it is equally important that your mother doesn't see you as a team against her.
As long as she feels like you are a team against her she will try to split up the team.
How can you avoid this and stay strong together?

How about this:

Incorporate the SET (support, empathy, truth) method when she brings this up, but do not otherwise engage.   After the SET response be firm that you will not engage and if the subject cannot be changed then end the conversation.

Do NOT j.a.d.e (justify, argue, defend, explain).  What I mean is don't defend your sister, explain her behaviour etc.   Why?  Because you need to show you are not a team against her.

Within the SET method of communication let mom know gently that you understand she has issues with sister, and when you get to the truth part let mom also know gently that sister doesn't talk that way about mother.  Or, if that isn't true then let mom know that if sister wanted to talk to you about mother that way you will not engage either. 

Let mom know you won't engage either way.  The point is to make sure she gets constant reminders that her relationship with you is not threatened by your relationship with your sister (real or imagined).   

Stay firm.

Rinse and repeat!   LOL  Simply meaning that you are going to have to do this often.

I imagine sister and you might choose to let go of the hurt and practice radical acceptance.   Know it's mom's BPD talking.   You can always call her and say "tag - I'm it"! to let your sister know you just went through this with mom so it's in her ballpark now.
Try to make light of it.   I'm not saying to laugh at your mom but maybe you and your sister could take the stress off of it by having a little joke of your own when you pass the ball.

In the end, chances are that one day your mom will be gone and it will be your sister and you left.   Hopefully you can look back and say you did the best you could.

Thanks for hearing me out.   I don't know if I am way out of line here since I am not speaking from a child with parent experience.   Just had the urge to reach out.

R

[kiwigal]

This is so so well written and helps me with my own current issue. Thank you for writing this out. Brilliantly articulated and I also loved the idea of keeping humour in it all.

I really hope you don't mind me posting here.  I am from the board of parents with (adult) children with BPD.  The only reason that I am reading posts here is to learn what my children may be coping with so that I can be empathetic towards their situation.

I do believe my ex (who is the father of both my children) has BPD, but I am not into ex-bashing and I say this with a heavy heart since I didn't realize what it was before our marriage ended.  Even though I am in an amazing relationship now with someone much more suited to myself it hurts to see what has happened to him since I have been gone.  My ex is a good man, honest as the day is long but he does suffer so many BPD traits that I now recognize since learning about BPD.   Too much to say not related to this post.

What I do want to say to you, is that I have seen this play out between my daughter and my son.  The difference is that they did become pitted against each other.  Not as much because of what dad said about them but more to do with how he treats them differently.

This is what I feel that I need to say to you based on my experience with him and my son:

It is SO awesome that you and your sister recognize this and are strong together.
At the same time it is equally important that your mother doesn't see you as a team against her.
As long as she feels like you are a team against her she will try to split up the team.
How can you avoid this and stay strong together?

How about this:

Incorporate the SET (support, empathy, truth) method when she brings this up, but do not otherwise engage.   After the SET response be firm that you will not engage and if the subject cannot be changed then end the conversation.

Do NOT j.a.d.e (justify, argue, defend, explain).  What I mean is don't defend your sister, explain her behaviour etc.   Why?  Because you need to show you are not a team against her.

Within the SET method of communication let mom know gently that you understand she has issues with sister, and when you get to the truth part let mom also know gently that sister doesn't talk that way about mother.  Or, if that isn't true then let mom know that if sister wanted to talk to you about mother that way you will not engage either. 

Let mom know you won't engage either way.  The point is to make sure she gets constant reminders that her relationship with you is not threatened by your relationship with your sister (real or imagined).   

Stay firm.

Rinse and repeat!   LOL  Simply meaning that you are going to have to do this often.

I imagine sister and you might choose to let go of the hurt and practice radical acceptance.   Know it's mom's BPD talking.   You can always call her and say "tag - I'm it"! to let your sister know you just went through this with mom so it's in her ballpark now.
Try to make light of it.   I'm not saying to laugh at your mom but maybe you and your sister could take the stress off of it by having a little joke of your own when you pass the ball.

In the end, chances are that one day your mom will be gone and it will be your sister and you left.   Hopefully you can look back and say you did the best you could.

Thanks for hearing me out.   I don't know if I am way out of line here since I am not speaking from a child with parent experience.   Just had the urge to reach out.

R

[Resiliant]

 
Thanks for letting me know I'm not crazy  LOL