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Author Topic: always having to apologize when they're wrong  (Read 509 times)
Clouds46

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« on: January 02, 2021, 10:28:25 PM »

It didn't matter what she did, no matter how violent, vulgar, outrageous, terrifying, twisted, damaging, or cruel.  If you had the nerve to say it hurt you, you were being "disrespectful," and owed her an apology.  There was no room for your perceptions or feelings.  Her self-righteousness and victim delusions filled the entire space, smothering you.

I've been long-term NC with my BPD mother.  Still, nonsensically, she pursues me with messages that she would like to be in each other's lives again, after I, of course, apologize to her.  I'm an adult but I feel like a kid again, the one she called "difficult" and "ungrateful" for trying to hold on to myself while she relentlessly abused me.  Hard to believe it still makes me so sad, so disappointed, so frustrated, and so angry.

Anyone else gone through this?
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cbrknd

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« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2021, 12:13:44 AM »

I resonate with this so much. I have been home with my mother for the past week on holiday, and I truly have been thinking that I may never return again because of how rough this week has been. It is so hard to constantly apologize no matter the circumstance but if I don’t, the repercussions are worse than a few seconds of sucking up. My sister tries to remind me that I need to stay calm, never react to anything even when our mother is wrong, but it’s really not fair to not have any emotions because you are so afraid of the other persons reaction. Being tossed between being the “perfect daughter” to “you’ve always hated me, I know you wish I was dead” is so emotionally taxing for me. I want to cut off all ties with her but at the same time that feels so wrong too as I know she has a condition that is largely not her fault. But it’s so hard for that to register as she constantly seems to manipulate my feelings. I don’t know if it helps, but I understand and feel where you are coming from and wish the best for you.
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Mtnlvr8

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« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2021, 04:58:12 PM »

I also relate to this. I just had a conversation with my sister where she once again talked about how we clearly have no interest in her perspective since no one asks for it and she doesn’t know if she’ll ever be able to forgive us for how cruel we’ve been to her with lack of contact and not including her in plans. No ability to understand that the reason she’s not included is her past behavior every time she is part of something including the limited phone contact we currently have. She is incapable of seeing her own responsibility in the issues in our relationship and is stuck perpetually playing the victim.

I also feel so much empathy for her and know that it is not “her fault” in some ways, but that doesn’t mean that we can’t set and enforce boundaries in order to protect ourselves.
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zachira
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« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2021, 05:09:39 PM »

My mother with BPD died in 2019. My brother with BPD and my sister with NPD are extremely abusive. Whatever the level of contact we have with an abusive family member, especially someone from our immediate family like a parent or sibling, the abuse still hurts. Having an abusive mother is a lifelong sorrow as this is the person who is supposed to love us unconditionally and is often the foundation for our self esteem and what kind of people we choose for intimate relationships. I find it helps to stay calm while noticing the feelings when they come up. My heart goes out to anyone with a family member with BPD or NPD, as people with BPD and NPD blame others for how they feel inside when they are emotionally dysregulating.
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PearlsBefore
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« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2021, 05:11:01 PM »

Depending on which pwBPD, but my general rule is to refuse to apologise for anything where I didn't do anything that requires apology. "Tough love", I call it. Then again, I'm adept enough to take away the knife trying to stab me after I refuse to apologise for bringing home the flavor of mayonaisse I'm supposed to "know" she hates...if you don't trust your own reflexes or don't think that sounds like an interesting weekend, perhaps don't follow my strategy (I daresay I'm not always correct) and instead look up Marsha Linehan's DBT ideas of how to validate their emotion without validating their perceived cause for it. Smiling (click to insert in post)
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Cast not your pearls before swine, lest they trample them, and turn and rend you. --- I live in libraries; if you find an academic article online that you can't access but might help you - send me a Private Message.
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« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2021, 08:31:39 PM »

This could be my fav thread of 2021.  I may just keep it going.  Some good and powerful insights

Clouds46 said:  It didn't matter what she did...

cbrknd replied:  but it’s really not fair

Mtnlvr8: She is incapable of seeing her own responsibility in the issues in our relationship and is stuck perpetually playing the victim.

zachira: My heart goes out to anyone

PearlsBefore: ..if you don't trust your own reflexes...

I love that the people here own it.  It is real.  These are our family members we are discussing, our life.  No sugar coating needed, it's the real deal (Pearlsbefore, I'm still laughing at the mayonaiise reference, and want to hear the whole story). 

I may not have a normal family, but I have raw memories.  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

b
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Bertha88
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« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2021, 08:00:40 AM »

These messages resonate with me as well.  Thanks to PearlsBefore for this ("look up Marsha Linehan's DBT ideas of how to validate their emotion without validating their perceived cause for it"), as I was just wondering about the advice to "validate their feelings" when their feelings are whacked--so sorry, try to see my part, but my situation w/uBPD husband/father is very repetitive in his demanding to be "respected" and "considered" when he throws about the worst behaviors--and is of course a "successful" businessperson, high-functioning, outside the home--but classic borderline inside the home in his inability to relate to those to whom he is most intimately connected.  Hate to see our now adult children treated wretchedly, but I must say it's easier than young ones because they now "get it."  Still, given I'm staying with my uBPD husband (fortunately, the children will move out!), I know I need to find ways to relate to him to minimize the mutual hurt & pain.  Thanks, all, for being there.  I think the WORST thing about this is his inability to see his part.  It makes the rest of us nuts.  Seeing it, manuevering around it, and trying to maximize the positive.  He can't see it; we can; and that leaves us in the crappy position of bearing a double burden.  I know he hurts, I know he needs understanding and validation, but I often cannot get past my own anger and resentment and his treatment of me and the children to take the "higher" road.
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kiwigal
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« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2021, 02:18:45 PM »

I so appreciate this thread and knowing I am not alone.

My narc SIL believes I owe her an apology for "causing her so much pain". I called her out on her talking about me and I am the bad person for failing to see her a) innocent intentions and b) her right to talk as and when she wants. The only silver lining was after two years of holding my ground she told my hubby everything she felt about me and so he got to see first hand what I am dealing with.

While I know theoretically all the tools: it's not personal, disengage, never apologise, go grey rock/ no contact etc... (all of which I have done). But, I still find it so hard to unhook from feeling indignant and engaging in pretend arguments in the shower where I point out the irrationality. Wasted energy I know.

I know I am not going to ever 'win' - but I'm trying to find ways to rebuild my life around health, beauty and belonging. To hold realistic expectations. To be grounded. To let myself feel the anger and grief and know its normal. To ultimately keep good boundaries and keep my SIL out of my life.
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Clouds46

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« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2021, 09:08:12 PM »

Wow, thanks all for such incredible responses.

Cbrknd, I'm very sorry to hear about the rough week you're having.  Going back home was always very triggering for me.  Not only just dealing with her, but being back in the place where I spent two decades as a kid feeling trapped and hopeless.  I too, remember being accused of wishing she were dead.  I always thought it was odd because, despite how horrible things were, it never reflected how I actually felt.  Then she once admitted she used to wish her own mother were dead.  Ah, projection!  Cutting off ties is a personal decision and I respect your decision not to-- it is not right for everyone.  I would urge you though, not to focus only on the fact that the illness isn't her fault, but on the necessity of preserving your own mental health and well-being.  She has trained you to worry about her at the expense of you.  You owe it to yourself to set whatever boundaries necessary to protect your health, sanity, and quality of life, whether she is in your life or not.  Sending you the strength to get through this tough time.

Mtnlvr8: "She is incapable of seeing her own responsibility in the issues in our relationship and is stuck perpetually playing the victim."  You've summed it up impeccably.  I am sorry for your painful situation but glad to hear you have the strength and wisdom to set the necessary boundaries.

Zachira:  What you wrote about this being a lifelong sorrow really resonated with me.  You are so right.  I am so sorry to hear of your struggles with not one but multiple abusive family members.  I too have been trying mindfulness and meditation to cope.  I hope it is helping you.

PearlsBefore:  Great advice!  Sounds like a great way to empathize while maintaining your ground.  I am also grateful to hear of your good reflexes.  Agree with beatricex that this sounds like quite a story!  I too, believe it or not, was not a stranger to violent outbursts involving sandwich condiments.

Beatricex:  Couldn't agree more with your sentiment.  Grateful for this rare opportunity to share the "raw memories" with others who can relate.  Especially after spending a lifetime feeling like nobody around me could possibly.

Bertha88:  Wishing you strength in what sounds like a very difficult situation with your spouse.  I hope that you find some effective strategies and manner of setting boundaries to protect yourself and your kids.  My heart goes out to you all.

Kiwigal:  The situation you describe with the talking badly about you, as well as the responses, is something I have experienced precisely.  My BPD mother compulsively trashed (well, trashes) me and my loved ones to others.  If I didn't like it, how dare I try to tell her what to do!  And not see her benevolence in doing it?  It's insanity.  Crazy how sometimes it seems like people with these disorders are all reading from the same script?  Anyway, I am glad you have at least educated yourself on tools for coping, but of course completely relate to the difficulties in "unhooking" from the nonsensity and unfairness of it all.  Hang in there!

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mermaidsarereal

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« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2021, 10:04:41 AM »

I am struggling with this so much right now. My mother has been in a "state" all week which has involved tears, accusations that I and my husband and daughter are excluding her, her lying in bed all day crying because we have been so mean to her. And me being "mean" to her is almost impossible to define- I looked at her wrong, or I am not being apologetic enough, or I didn't ask her enough times during the day how she was feeling. I don't know what to do. I can't live like this. I need her to find some mental health care but I don't know how to approach that at all without it turning into a huge dramatic thing. Maybe it doesn't matter- it's been a huge dramatic week over nothing anyway. Sorry- I felt the need to rant and just wanted to chime in that I feel your pain.
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kiwigal
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« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2021, 06:52:32 PM »

I am struggling with this so much right now. My mother has been in a "state" all week which has involved tears, accusations that I and my husband and daughter are excluding her, her lying in bed all day crying because we have been so mean to her. And me being "mean" to her is almost impossible to define- I looked at her wrong, or I am not being apologetic enough, or I didn't ask her enough times during the day how she was feeling. I don't know what to do. I can't live like this. I need her to find some mental health care but I don't know how to approach that at all without it turning into a huge dramatic thing. Maybe it doesn't matter- it's been a huge dramatic week over nothing anyway. Sorry- I felt the need to rant and just wanted to chime in that I feel your pain.


That sounds just so draining Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post) It becomes so mind-twisting, doesn't it? So glad we have each other here to remind each other what is normal and what is dysfunctional. 
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khibomsis
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« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2021, 06:45:44 AM »

Once, I got a call from my uNBPD mom. I must come over right away. I ask why, she says Dad is just lying in bed for days, not talking or eating. She doesn't think he is OK. Gliding lightly over why I must come when my uNBPD brother and wife are in the house, I get there as soon as I can. My arrival is the signal for everyone to go to work as they have done all week, they take it so Ms Fix-it Woman is there so they are off duty. After cleaning dad up and observing him closely for the night I come to the conclusion that he must go to hospital. Mom refuses. She never took kindly to the attention he was getting when he became frail. I made a decision to counter-rage. I raged solidly at her for two and a half hours, threatening court action (useless since she was next-of-kin but a rage is a rage) and the seven hounds of hell. Eventually, she agrees to take him to hospital and we all go. At the hospital she is full of excuses to the nursing staff why we took so long to get him to care.  That tipped me off this was not so innocent neglect. Turns out after Xrays he must have fallen and broken his hip - and lay like that for three days before she called me.
I have never discussed this with anyone but close family. I suspect it would shock even my T. Likewise glad for these boards where people know how it goes in the Twilight Zone. The kicker is that when dad some weeks later got out of hospital, she complained to him about my behaviour, insisting that he must tell me to apologize! It will not surprise you to hear that the accusations of cruelty and disrespect only grew in the telling. I didn't of course, but hated having to tell my codependent dad what actually happened.

Well, she never raged at me again. But for me it was too late. Much though I loved my mom, I could never approach her with anything but the merest semblance of politeness after that. I could not display any warmth even in her last illness. The PTSD would not let me.  My reflexes stayed alert to the last, though.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2021, 06:58:31 AM by khibomsis » Logged

 
formflier
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« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2021, 03:43:41 PM »



khibomsis

I'm so sorry you had to go through that...ugg, double and triple ugg..

One thing I have tried to adopt is a way of "sticking my toe in the water" to determine how much of a "rational mind" is at work with my pwBPD.

So, to try to apply this to general themes in this thread.


notional pwBPD:  I want you to be in my life again, come over and apologize and let's carry on

us:  Oh..ok...are you wanting to understand how I view our relationship?


Now...think about this.  Asking directly if they are open to apologizing to us is waaaay too much.  But this proposed response kinda gently tests to see if they are open to any other point of view.

Thoughts?

Best,

FF
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khibomsis
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« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2021, 11:33:56 PM »

Thank you FF! Feel much better now that I got it off my chest.
Love your idea of toe in the water! Non-confrontational but also protects the non in case of backlash  Smiling (click to insert in post)
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