Covid makeup time

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

DH and I had a definite covid exposure 8 days ago. We got tested 5 days ago and are both negative. It would've been DH's weekend with the kids this past weekend (Fri thru yesterday).

Here is what he emailed Mom yesterday:

"Hi Kids' Mom;
The girls and I need to make up lost time together-2 dates with SD12 and an overnight weekend. I want to make the upcoming weekend an overnight weekend, and I can take SD12 out any Monday, Tuesday, or Thursday evening in the next 3 weeks. Let me know what evenings work for you.
Thanks,
DH"

And here's what just arrived:

"Hi.
My understanding is that if you opt out of a visit, we do not have to make up that visit.
SD12 and you came to whatever agreement you came to in not having those dates. If you want to talk with her about extra dates we can arrange a phone conversation for you two to plan something.
I’m sure the covid exposure is a grey area that doesn’t ask that I offer time to make up but I’m willing to work with you in finding more time as obviously I would not want to encourage time when you are in quarantine from covid exposure. This weekend won’t work. We can talk about where to make up time. I think doing something like adding a Friday night overnight when they come home Saturday on one of my weekends would make more sense.
Thoughts?
Kids' Mom"

Not wanting to cooperate on covid makeup time seems... over the line. And offering less time for making up a full weekend is a, forgive the language, d!ck move.

The two times he missed with SD12 were (1) DH was sick with something else, and (2) covid exposure

I'm pretty amped, so I decided to post here and try to calm down.

But my first thought is to not engage with any of her craziness and then just say "I'll be over to pick up SD12 tomorrow at 3 and next Tuesday at 3; thanks for sharing that this weekend won't work for you, I will plan a regular overnight weekend with them in 2 weeks"

...

Ugggghhhhhhhhhhhh

[kells76]

DH and I had a definite covid exposure 8 days ago. We got tested 5 days ago and are both negative. It would've been DH's weekend with the kids this past weekend (Fri thru yesterday).

Here is what he emailed Mom yesterday:

"Hi Kids' Mom;
The girls and I need to make up lost time together-2 dates with SD12 and an overnight weekend. I want to make the upcoming weekend an overnight weekend, and I can take SD12 out any Monday, Tuesday, or Thursday evening in the next 3 weeks. Let me know what evenings work for you.
Thanks,
DH"

And here's what just arrived:

"Hi.
My understanding is that if you opt out of a visit, we do not have to make up that visit.
SD12 and you came to whatever agreement you came to in not having those dates. If you want to talk with her about extra dates we can arrange a phone conversation for you two to plan something.
I’m sure the covid exposure is a grey area that doesn’t ask that I offer time to make up but I’m willing to work with you in finding more time as obviously I would not want to encourage time when you are in quarantine from covid exposure. This weekend won’t work. We can talk about where to make up time. I think doing something like adding a Friday night overnight when they come home Saturday on one of my weekends would make more sense.
Thoughts?
Kids' Mom"

Not wanting to cooperate on covid makeup time seems... over the line. And offering less time for making up a full weekend is a, forgive the language, d!ck move.

The two times he missed with SD12 were (1) DH was sick with something else, and (2) covid exposure

I'm pretty amped, so I decided to post here and try to calm down.

But my first thought is to not engage with any of her craziness and then just say "I'll be over to pick up SD12 tomorrow at 3 and next Tuesday at 3; thanks for sharing that this weekend won't work for you, I will plan a regular overnight weekend with them in 2 weeks"

...

Ugggghhhhhhhhhhhh

[Gemsforeyes]

Hey Kells-

Just breathe... I’m glad you both tested negative and I pray it stays that way.  When I supposedly had it (VERY early on), before any testing was available, my illness showed up 9 days after exposure.  I was full-on SICK for nearly 7 weeks.

I’m not defending any position.  At all.  But in the U.S., no one can seem to decide if the quarantine period should be 14 days or 10 days... not sure where you are or what that period is there?

At any rate, exW will ALWAYS make a “D!ck move”...  and knowing this, you don’t need to make one back... so think this through for a few more hours, and maybe wait a few more days before seeing the kids. 

The price of inadvertently infecting the kids (and BPDexW) would be never-ending... far worse than waiting a few extra days.  Besides, once the kids are with you on the make-up weekend, perhaps SD12 can decide to stay that extra night.

Your thoughts?

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[kells76]

Hi G4E!

Yes, no symptoms, and I plan to get retested in a week. The person we got the exposure from had none of the "expected" symptoms (cough, fever, or shortness of breath), only, interestingly, loss of taste/smell. I'm smelling a bunch of stuff  -- so far so good.

We have time scheduled with SD14 on Wednesday which would be 10 days past exposure, and then both kids on Fri which would be 12 days past. DH and I are both low risk by age and health.

From what I've read (and the handout DH got when tested), you can lower Q to 10 days if you both have neg PCR (yes) and no symptoms (yes). So we would be following official CDC guidelines if we saw SD14 on Wed.

exW will ALWAYS make a “D!ck move”...  and knowing this, you don’t need to make one back...

Yeah, that's what I'm trying to remind myself of -- is this REALLY that different from who she always is? Nope, it's not. This is just what she always does.

What is interesting to me is that she did not mention any safety issues in her email.

She did not say "I am concerned about you seeing SD14 only 10 days after exposure, could we reschedule that to 17 days past" or whatnot.

It's all about "it's a grey area where I don't have to do makeup time" at any time.

And "it's just whatever SD12 wants to do" and SD12 isn't going to tell Mom at Mom's house, Hey I do want to see Dad.

...

I'm with you that there are multiple prices that would be paid for inadvertently exposing the kids and Mom's house to covid. There's the health aspect, but in this situation, even bigger, it's the "mom is on the moral high ground and dad is lower than dirt for being SO irresponsible, he can't be trusted with the kids' safety ever again" aspect.

I respect the health aspect... and, I also don't want DH to "pay" in the "Mom is now and forever morally superior and you are scum who doesn't deserve to see the kids, because you accidentally gave us covid" area.

...

Overall:

The price of inadvertently infecting the kids (and BPDexW) would be never-ending... far worse than waiting a few extra days.

I think my core issue is that she isn't willing to reschedule. DH and I are fine with doing the rescheduling farther out, if it made her feel more confident. But she isn't even going there. It's just her finding a power lever to say No. And that's what's frustrating... she isn't even doing the fig leaf of "I feel concerned about covid, can we push it out" (again, not that covid concern is a "fig leaf", but you get what I'm saying) -- she isn't even pretending that her denial is about safety. It's about power.

[Gemsforeyes]

You know, Kells... in reading what she wrote again.  And again... there appears to be some “shaming” in there... it’s NOT apparent upon the first or even second read, but it’s there.  (I think)

Sort of gives me the creeps.  ...”Covid exposure... quarantine ...Covid exposure...”.  Do you see what I see?  Or has this become my “untrusting” nature now? 

And yea, if I were the mom, I’d say... “yes Kells, let’s wait the recommended 14 days before the next visit.”  But it’s about “mom” steering the time with Dad.  And only mom... tho she’s not bright enough to see that she ‘could’ catch a virus... 

Please use caution in when you actually see the children. 

And P.S., I don’t believe I lost my sense of smell or taste, but I had the rest of it.  And In some little ways I’m a “long-hauler”.

And as your ally, if you feel completely clear to see the kids now, why will you be tested again next week?  I’ve got to ask...

Warmly,
Gems

[kells76]

And as your ally, if you feel completely clear to see the kids now, why will you be tested again next week?  I’ve got to ask...

I think just to continue to cover the bases. The kids' mom has a way of interpreting what we do as exposing the kids to covid. Been through this before -- had to take SD14 to urgent care last March for stitches. She threw up once ~5 days afterwards and Mom was sure that SD14 got covid because we took her to UC. Of course, Mom did not get tested, nor did she get the kids tested.

So it is kind of reactive, I guess -- I am assuming that Mom will play some "well, I didn't tell you not to spend time with the kids on Wednesday, and I am also going to be sure you gave them covid on Wednesday" game.

My work does free every other week testing, so it is an insurance policy against Mom... sigh.

[kells76]

You know, Kells... in reading what she wrote again.  And again... there appears to be some “shaming” in there... it’s NOT apparent upon the first or even second read, but it’s there.  (I think)

Sort of gives me the creeps.  ...”Covid exposure... quarantine ...Covid exposure...”.  Do you see what I see?  Or has this become my “untrusting” nature now?

Yes, she and Stepdad communicate to DH by shaming him and holding him in contempt. And it is subtle. It's not your "untrusting" nature, it's their word-smith-ery and covert manipulation/aggression.

Plus, a helping of abdication of responsibility / "not my fault"-ism.

...

So, the question is, how/when/if to respond.

My first thought:

"Hi Kids' Mom;

Thanks for getting back to me that this weekend won't work for an overnight, we can work with that. I will schedule it for X weekend instead. I'll plan to pick up SD12 next Monday at 3 and then 2 Mon's after that also at 3pm. Let me know by this Thursday if there are any scheduling issues with those times (i.e., appointments, friend dates, SD12's usual time to take a shower, errands, etc).

Best;

Dad"

...

One other thought:

Would it even be worth it to just respond: "Do you have any covid safety concerns?"

[Gemsforeyes]

Hey Kells-

Sorry... I DO remember this... I had three step kids... and 2 moms to negotiate with... it was HARD.   I was my exH’s 3rd W (I should have read THOSE tea leaves, but I was younger and “innocent”).   I believe I made myself forget the years of that experience.  The first was LONG divorced, and the 2nd was 3 years separated when we met... but wanted to name ME in their divorce agreement as required to be present for supervised visits.  There WERE no required supervised visits - EVER!

First... How I see this, is if you’re not going to see SD12 until Monday (after the 14 days), raise NOTHING about whether BPDexW has questions about Covid  safety concerns!  

This, my friend is self-care.  You’ll just be opening yourself up to criticism about how “careless” you were to expose yourself, etc.  Please don’t place yourself in BPDexW or Stepdad’s line of Fire.  You do NOT deserve that!

Now to what you’re proposing to write -   It’s largely semantics...

Perhaps:  “Thanks for getting back to me regarding the fact that this weekend won’t work for an overnight visit.  I’d like to reschedule the overnight visit for X weekend instead.
I’ll plan to pick up SD12 next Monday, the 25th at 3PM and then the following 2 Monday’s at 3, assuming she has no scheduling conflicts with those times.  Please let me know by this Thursday if you believe these times will work.”

Best,
Dad

Kells -  I’m so sorry you have to tippy toe through words.  And life.

Your thoughts?

Warmly,
Gems

[Gemsforeyes]

One question, Kells -

Does this get you back to your regular visitation schedule?

Xo,
Gems

[kells76]

raise NOTHING about whether BPDexW has questions about Covid  safety concerns!

Good call... it'd be overfunctioning for her, plus widening the target. Thank you.

Does this get you back to your regular visitation schedule?

Yes, we ought now to be "on the regular schedule"... just a question of scheduling the makeup time.

[kells76]

So, reviewing the PP, it states:

Parents may revise or adjust the children's routine, holiday and vacation scheduling by advance agreement. Any significant changes shall be prepared in writing if requested by either parent. When not otherwise agreed in advance, the scheduling contained in this agreement shall be carried out.

So this is looking like if DH didn't get her agreement to makeup time in writing, it isn't happening... IF she agrees "we should follow the PP". Which, if the suggestion that DH schedule directly with SD12 is taken at face value, she doesn't agree with.

She seems to want a "have her cake and eat it too" scenario, where "we must all follow the PP" if it decreases DH's PT, but "we can be flexible" and "let the kids schedule" (knowing it's too much pressure) if THAT decreases DH's PT.

PP also reads:

The parents agree to communicate directly with each other regarding all parental matters, including scheduling of parenting time.

So, if Mom suggests that Dad schedule directly with SD12, then Mom is not following the PP.

Also, PP states, that on top of holiday times, DH gets an additional 14 days of vacation PT per year with the kids. This PP was from ~5 years ago so it has the limitation that he can't do all 14 days consecutively, it has to be broken up into 4x 3 days and 1x 2 day chunks. He must give Mom 30 day notice and not schedule it during her holiday time, and Mom must confirm in 2 days and it "shall not be unreasonably denied". I don't think DH has used all 14 days in a calendar year before; we may be using 5-7 if we still do a Spring Break trip, but that leaves a lot.

So...

If Mom "wants to follow the PP", then DH can just schedule one weekend and two weekdays' worth of vacation time for February. This might be the workaround.

It is tempting to have him ask her in an email if she is now saying we should all follow the PP. I think she believes that "DH forfeits time" is in there somewhere, but it's not.

And the other angle is, does he try to schedule "covid makeup time" again, and have her reject it again, and get that on paper, before moving to "informing you of my vacation time >30 days ahead".

[worriedStepmom]

I would try to schedule the makeup time again.

It isn't in the parenting plan, but a court would definitely find mom to be unreasonable in rejecting that time if you were quarantining as laid out in the government guidelines (and you were).

At the very least, you need it documented.

[kells76]

I would try to schedule the makeup time again.

It isn't in the parenting plan, but a court would definitely find mom to be unreasonable in rejecting that time if you were quarantining as laid out in the government guidelines (and you were).

At the very least, you need it documented.

That makes sense -- in a way, to "act as if" she is being reasonable  and attempt a second reschedule.

Even in her email it's like there are two personalities -- the first one, that wants to box DH out of time with the kids, and the second one, that wants to look like she is "bending over backwards" to throw him some crumbs.