BPD or something else...

[BuffaloTrace35]

Here is a string of texts from my wife to me that came through just this morning.  I am dropping my son off for practice. items in ( ) I have inserted for context. She currently wants to move from a 400K home to a 800K home closer to our kids school.    I have not responded to her texts... Is this BPD or something else? Some background, we have talked to 2 financial consultants, and with helping with college for the kids, we can't afford a $800K home.  She is now to the point where she says we don't have to help the kids at all with college..i want to move!


texts:

If we don't move by august you will be responsible for all school activities. I will drive on the days I work, but not extra

I have left my virtus training lapse already. You cannot volunteer without having virtus training at any Catholic school in XXXXX with Virtus. So you will need to go to the 8 hr course some time at XXXX in order to volunteer for anything.

Any "activity" is null and void due to lack of decision making (talking about her birth control or hysterotomy). It takes 2-3 months to schedule so any of this is out of the question...probably for quite a while if not forever.

Since I can't sleep in the bedroom (i snore she just moved to the couch) I have found a mattress/bed at Ida to put in the basement or somewhere.

I need to know what paper to sign to get this van out of our garage (it was totaled, she has never singed the paper work to the insurance company so it has sat for a month in our garage).


And I'm calling landscaping/pool places today to set up consultations..if we eventually move...we will be selling a home with a pool.

So you will need to move money now to be available for a down payment.

Have fun at your bourbon party tonite...I probably won't see you before you leave.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[BuffaloTrace35]

"and if I happen to see you...please don't talk to me".   just came in over text now.

[Cat Familiar]

It sounds like control is a big part of her agenda. How do you respond to these texts?

[BuffaloTrace35]

I did not respond at all. I used to battle her every point via text, but have found how useless that is.  She sent me about 10 more texts of the similar tone while I was driving home.   Just got home and went about my business.  Didn’t say a word...but definite silent treatment from her end.  Funny thing is...her sister calls and she snaps into this normal person while talking to her.

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hi BuffaloTrace35:

Sorry about your situation.  Sounds like you have been devalued/painted black. Individual BPD traits aren't unique to BPD.  It's common for people to exhibit a trait or two, at least for periods of time.

Here is a string of texts from my wife to me that came through just this morning.  I am dropping my son off for practice. items in ( ) I have inserted for context. She currently wants to move from a 400K home to a 800K home closer to our kids school.    I have not responded to her texts... Is this BPD or something else? Some background, we have talked to 2 financial consultants, and with helping with college for the kids, we can't afford a $800K home.  She is now to the point where she says we don't have to help the kids at all with college..i want to move! 

How long has your partner exhibited this type of behavior (s)? Has she been difficult in the past?

Stay with your gut instinct and be practical. Spending money, moving, and installing a swimming pool won't improve things.  If you split, it will give you financial difficulties.

A $400,000 home can be a mansion or a starter home, depending on where you live.  Which is the case for you?

College expenses are likely something that should be discussed, especially if you don't have ample savings for retirement and your own elder care.  There is a wide spectrum of possibilities with college.  Depending on the student's abilities and aspirations, some don't fair any worse with taking a low cost route and others don't fair any better with going to an expensive college, with all the trimming.

Has your wife had a history of holding a job outside of the home, or has she primarily been a stay-at home mom?

Have things been simmering for awhile & have perhaps led to her current mental state?  Has she been a big spender in the past, or perhaps a penny pincher who is tired of it & is ready for some perks and a higher standard of living?

[BuffaloTrace35]

This has been going on for a long time...years.   It has gotten really bad lately.    We made the decision to have the kids go to a private school 25-30 minutes away.  The intent was to hopefully move closer at some point..but it is a super high cost of living area...ie where all of the professional athletes, etc live.    Our current 400K home is nice, large and suits our family--but there is a drive every day..which I do a lot of the time.    $400K in that area will get you a fixer-upper ranch half the size of our home.   Once you get out of the high price area...there are simlar homes for $400K - $500k..maybe a small downgrade..but they are still 20 mintues away.    She is wanting to move and to upgrade to a nicer home, pool, acerage...$700K+.  I'm content being in a 400K home and being able to help the kids with college.  In her mind,  its not fair that only my opinion counts...UGH.

She currently works 2 days a week and bring in $30K a year.  She is able to hold the job and functions well at it.   Financial planner said if she works full time, we could afford a $650K home.   Somehow, after the meeting what she heard was we coudl afford $650K home on her working 2 days a week..and like $900K if she worked full time.  In her opinion, I'm the one standing in the way of her dream house and living close to the kids school and friends.   

She's not a huge spender..but she spends all of the time. On the 2 days a week she works, she always spends $30-$35 dollars a day on dinner for her and our son..even though there is dinner waiting at home that I made for the rest of the family.  Lots of days starbucks for breakfast and something for luch as well.  I don't evern bring it up, as it is just fodder for a fight.

[Naughty Nibbler]

BuffaloTrace35:

What ages are your children?  Social activities are rather minimal there days in most communities.  Isn't it possible for them to interact with local children, as social activities resume? 

You may want to look at things on a spreadsheet and spread out the elements of cost for an $800,000 house.  Twice the house = twice the property taxes, twice the insurance, twice the cost to maintain, etc.  Extra acreage and a pool will require monthly maintenance costs. It might be worth the cost to have the financial planner put it down on paper.  If it's written out, there is less room for misinterpretation.

Also, get the financial planner to write down retirement options.  What's the targeted retirement date, what will be your anticipated retirement income, what can you afford in retirement.

Most people plan to downsize, as they get closer to retirement.  Spell out all the living costs for the $800,000 house and compare it with retirement income.  Project all elements of cost:  utilities, gardening, pool maint., food, Starbucks & eating out.  Consider everything.  Can you afford it?  Would you have to work an extra 10 years if you move to a more expensive house? 

There needs to be mutual agreement on significant financial decisions.  That should include college spending.  With the college situation, there are a lot of possibilities between "all or nothing".  Do the children have college savings accounts?  There could  be a combination of scholarships, loans and cash payment. The decisions of colleges stretches from starting at a local JC and then transferring or starting at a high-end expensive college.  You need to come up with some compromise, between your wife's position of nothing and the amount of money you currently want to spend.

So, think about doing a deep dive regarding options, and get it all written down:
1. What are the elements of cost with your current living situation?

2. What are all the projected costs, if you moved to the $800,000 house?

3.  If you bought the $800,000 home, and your wife worked part time, what would the deficit be?

4.  If you bought the $800,000 home, could you afford it into retirement years?

It will take a lot of work to go through the costs involved with various options.  It may be necessary, because your wife doesn't process verbal information accurately.  Once you get all the options written out, let your wife consult a 2nd financial planner if necessary.  If you can't discuss the options and come to some compromises, you may want to try a few sessions with a marriage counselor.   If your wife won't go, maybe you might want to go solo.

[BuffaloTrace35]

Thanks.  I completely agree with all you have written above.  It is logical and makes sense.   Unfortunately, my wife doesn't see it this way at all...and setting a budget, and living within our means and planning for the kids college is "my way".   She refuses to look at any spreadsheet I have put together.    When I brought up the extra costs and concerns of a much more expensive home to the finical planner, I could see her face change and she told the financial planner--"see what I am living with?"   So basically, being financially responsible and not overcommitting is "getting my way" while she doesn't get what she wants and is enraged over it...no mutual agreement whatsoever...this has set her off into rages over pretty much every aspect of our daily life at this point.  My life sucks.

[formflier]

Couple of thoughts.

1.  Very wise to not respond.  (a more full answer is "wise not to respond until you have a consistent healthy response")

Does it matter/how would it matter if it is "something else"?  (this coming from a guy whose wife is much more PPD than BPD)  Note..it may matter or it may matter in certain contexts.


OK...I see a lot of my "early self"  in your posts AND...I'm a guy that loves spreadsheets..MBA and all that.  There is this "lure" that if we apply just the right amount of logic...that we can "solve" the BPD issue.  (do you see this in your thinking from time to time?)

Please don't implement any of the following...just kick them around in your heart and head space for a while.

1.  Your wife appears to want something without paying for it or "solving it".  How is that your issue to solve?  

2.  You appear to buy into her "all or nothing" black or white...with me or against me type of thinking.  What if you opened the door for her to join your thinking/methods and let her experience the consequences of doing that or not...

ie.  "Hey babe...sounds like a wonderful idea.  Please send me the spreadsheet you have worked this out on and let's come together to find something we can both say yes to."

If she wan'ts to insist you are saying no..won't do whatever simply stick with..

"Oh goodness this sounds hard.  I'm simply not ready to say yes yet, seeing your spreadsheet might help."

See how different this sounds than  "How on earth can I make 2+2 equal 5?" or "What part of 650k did you not hear from the financial planner?"

Looking forward to getting to know you better.  This is not an issue to be solved..there are emotions here to be empathetic with.."

Best,

FF

[BuffaloTrace35]

Thanks for the reply.   This does help.

Unfortunately, the PLEASE READ hit the fan this morning with a new barrage of texts.  Apparently she raged at the kids (day off from school) and took all phones, games, computers, etc.     Supposedly after doing so...they were laughing and made some comment that "dad thinks your moods are crazy."   So she let me have it about how the kids bad behavior is all my fault because i don't respect her, and how could they ever when I show no respect.   Why is she even trying...20 more+ texts.   I just responded back that I was working, but did not say or infer that and I will be more cognizant of that with the kids.    She went on to about how it would only take me screwing over some of my friends so they could see the real me for it to hit home because I respect them, but not her...

[formflier]

"Hey babe...kids can be hard." 

"Respect is important...let's get together over brunch on Sunday morning and discuss further.  I'll be able to give our conversation my full attention then."

How does that sound?

Best,

FF

[BuffaloTrace35]

Thanks.  Something like that may work...she has created this new reality in her mind that we can not have an in person discussion, so texting is the only way she is comfortable communicating.   I'm sure she would respond to that suggestion in that manner...but those types of responses make much more sense to me than they would have in the past.  I'm dreading coming home from work tonight.

[formflier]

Look...if she won't discuss in person...then you just do you thing until she will.

"Babe...this seems important to you.  So much is missed in a text conversation, I understand you much better in person.  I want to understand you."

Then...let her flip out...or ride a broom...or turn you into a newt.

The newt thing will get better...

Pop quiz..what am I talking about?

Best,

FF

[BuffaloTrace35]

Thanks.  She's manipulative in the fact that if I try and go silent, she will text kid, life emergencies to get me to respond...things like I can't get ahold of our daughter, its been ten minutes...have you heard from her?.    Where is such and such? If I don't find it in 10 minutes I'm ordering another one on Amazon overnight...I don't care how much it costs!  ! ?   exhausting.   

[formflier]

I wonder why she does those things?

What do you think?

And..come on dude...don't ignore the biggest question.  What's the newt thing?  (really hoping to find a kindred spirit here...)   

Best,

FF

[BuffaloTrace35]

Sorry---I have no idea about the Newt thing... but I'm always open to learning something new.


So...from my un-educated understanding of BPD...it appears something got her out of the "funk" she was in.   Is there a medical term for this?   And by that...I mean she is at least speaking and does not immediately leave a room if I enter.   At times..this is as good as it gets.  Sad when as good as it gets is really just normal living.   

Help me understand what is going on...She received an email that items she was supposed to have completed for my daughters school were now past due.   This is a fairly common occurrence.    (side note, she usually blames me for thigs like this because the fact she is too busy to keep up with our kids because we live so far away from their school).  She forwarded me the email and sent me a text that we needed to take care of some forms before the end of the day and drop them off to school.    I texted her, I'd look at it and start working on it as she finished up a call from work.    There was no blame this time.  I had most of it done by the time she was finished with her work call.      Honestly, most of the communications were still done via text--which is just ridiculous to me because we were both home...but that is how she operates.   But whatever it was with needed to get some work done for our daughter, seemed to snap her out of her rage where she is not completely avoiding me with the silent treatment and offensive texts. 

I guess understanding that is is possibly an illness helps me somewhat process the fact that my wife speaks to me and text me things I find abusive more times than not...while at the same time putting 100% of the blame she feels this way on me or my family...

[formflier]

Sorry---I have no idea about the Newt thing... but I'm always open to learning something new.

https://youtu.be/xzYO0joolR0


Hey...it seemed like you could use a smile...

And it can get better...

Best,

FF

[formflier]

So...how is "work" divided up?

If she is supposed to do stuff for daughters school...how does that get decided?

And if it gets decided and not done...then it appears you step up and do it?  Why?  How does that make things better?

What is likely to happen next time she is "assigned" to do stuff?

Is that what you want to happen next time?


Listen...you are really early in all of this and I vividly remember wanting answers..precise answers...because in my mind if I could figure it out...it could be solved.

Does that sound about where your head is?  (please tweak my words as needed)

I realize I'm not addressing all or even many of the things you are bringing up.  I haven't forgotten..please trust me a bit on this...it takes time to "see".

Best,

FF

[BuffaloTrace35]

We don't have a set format for dividing up work.  Have tried that..epic failure.  I think she may also suffer from ADHD. Cooking, Cleaning, most laundry and shopping have all more or less fallen to me.  I think she wants to do it, can't do it, I do it, and then she resents me because I can do it.   I used to be real passive aggressive about it..now i just do what needs to be done.    No way we could set up a chore list...as she knows I will hold her to it..so she won't even give it a thought.  A chore list would be logical, make sense, but she is not logical..logical is me and that would be "my way".  She's done doing things my way.

With respect to the kids school--we have 5 kids-- so a lot going on. I assumed since I work full time, and she worked 1-2 days a week, she would assume primary responsibility.   She just can't keep up...so I fill in where needed.

I guess in this instance, I'm not complaining or worried about chore-play...I"m trying to understand how her realizing that something needed to be done soon was able to snap her out of her rage-phase.  I noticed this same pattern when she would be raging at me...that some crisis at work that she had to deal with snapped her out of it and started treating me like a human being again.


"Listen...you are really early in all of this and I vividly remember wanting answers..precise answers...because in my mind if I could figure it out...it could be solved."

Yes--this is more or less where I am at.  Pretty sure her constant "trigger" is that she wants to move closer to our kids school..in the range of a home that I don't think we can afford.    School will be going full in-person again in the fall (virtual most of this year so little driving) and the onslaught of rash, illogical decisions (she was going to buy an apartment on year).  is about to start again.   My youngest son still have 6 years left there...and oldest is making a decision on college soon ($$$).

[GaGrl]

One aspect of BPD is emotions overwhelm the person with BPD -- he/she does not have the ability to regulate the emotion, he/she cannot "self-soothe." So others in close proximity - - especially those closest and most intimate -- becomes the target for discharging the emotion.

Often, once the emotions are discharged (say, through a rage or text barrage), the pwBPD returns to a baseline, more calm.

If your wife does have ADHD, the requirement to focus and concentrate may have helped her self-soothe. My adult son is severely ADHD, and he has always responded to deadlines and imposed time limits (unlike a lot of ADHD kids, he did very well on timed tests).

[formflier]

  Pretty sure her constant "trigger" is that she wants to move closer to our kids school..in the range of a home that I don't think we can afford.    

So...hmmm, good thing to clarify.

Let's say you figured out how to purchase this home (for the sake of argument)...based on your experiences with her so far, this would return her to "normal" and you would have a happy..functional marriage..right?

Another way of asking.

I don't buy the home...xyz happens in the future?

I do buy the home...abc happens in the future?

Best,

FF

[BuffaloTrace35]

I think buying a home closer to the school would certainly help...but I think there would be new stresses around money.     I don't think it would fix all of the problems either.  Also, we will most probably only getting within 15-20 mins of the school (vs 30-35) unless we are looking at a $800K home.  The housing market in that area is RED HOT...so we would probably end up overpaying for a house that one of us would be making a compromise on.   Taxes would also double.  She'd be fine with a 200 year old farm house that needed a complete overhaul as long as it had a pool and acreage.  I want nothing to do with the amount of work and money to spend updating a 200 year old farm house.    I'm happy with our large, all brick house that doesn't have a ton of work/money/maintenance needs.  College debt for the kids would go from $30K ballpark to them having to cover most of it.   

[formflier]

I think buying a home closer to the school would certainly help...but I think there would be new stresses around money.        

In what way would it help? 

If you have to put a 1-10 number on "how bad" her BPD is right now.  How would that number change after the move?   

Best,

FF

[BuffaloTrace35]

She literally spends hours a day looking at zillow at huge houses with pools and acreage.  She used to text them to me 5,6,7 at at time...all close to 2 or more times the price of our current home.  She has not been driving because of covid, but she knows come Fall of next year,  she will have to pick up kids at least 3 times a week.   She freaked out about covid and hasn't done anything with our friends...but now she claims that nobody wants to do anything with us because we live so far away and everyone knows now we aren't going to move..so they stopped inviting us.   I just met our friends for bourbon and a cigar on saturday...yea I had to drive thirty mins.   

6.5 to 7

maybe take it down to a 4.


She is oblivious to the mostly cash flow (currently negative), the current tuitions for the kids, and the upcoming college.   So a move to a big expensive house, she doesn't have to worry one bit about how we could possibly afford it..."I just think we can" is the most effort she will put into it.

[BuffaloTrace35]

She literally spends hours a day looking at zillow at huge houses with pools and acreage.  She used to text them to me 5,6,7 at at time...all close to 2 or more times the price of our current home.  She has not been driving because of covid, but she knows come Fall of next year,  she will have to pick up kids at least 3 times a week.   She freaked out about covid and hasn't done anything with our friends...but now she claims that nobody wants to do anything with us because we live so far away and everyone knows now we aren't going to move..so they stopped inviting us.   I just met our friends for bourbon and a cigar on saturday...yea I had to drive thirty mins.   

6.5 to 7

maybe take it down to a 4.


She is oblivious to the monthly cash flow (currently negative), the current tuitions for the kids, and the upcoming college.   So a move to a big expensive house, she doesn't have to worry one bit about how we could possibly afford it..."I just think we can" is the most effort she will put into it.

[formflier]

OK...so how does it go down? 

What is it about a new house that fixes that much BPD?  (that appears significant)

Best,

FF

[BuffaloTrace35]

since she is fixated on moving every day, and she thinks I'm the one that is stopping us...moving would make her less triggered at me.   She lets one pickup of the kids 1/2 hour there, 1/2 hour back ruin her day.

Also, I know very little about BPD, so maybe it will fix nothing.