Does the controlling ever get better?

[izzitme]

 

Does the controlling ever get better? He tries to control every aspect of my life. He doesn't see me as an equal, just as someone to control and devalue. I have been calling him out on it and last night he called me a b*tch. I'm starting to question if I want to stay. I don't think he will ever be able to take responsibility and blame will always be shifted back to me. I am losing hope.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[rum2020]

You may want to read "Why does he do that?" There is BPD but also could be NPD, and/or just plain need to control and abuse. There is also the MOSAIC Threat assessment that may show you a different side to it. That is very brave of you for standing up for yourself. They say that once you start setting boundaries it gets worse for awhile, they are trying to test back to see if you are serious or not. It is up to you to defend your boundaries, and to decide how you will be treated in a relationship. With someone with BPD, the trick seems to be doing it without being invalidated or triggering their abandonment issues. Or so I've gathered, I am still trying to figure it all out too

[izzitme]

Thank you rum2020. I have been suspecting NPD rather than BPD. The NPD help sites are very disrespectful and don't offer the resources that this site does. I took the MOSAIC you suggested and scored quite high. The entirety of our relationship I have taken the blame for everything. I didn't know how such a nice guy could ever endure someone as bad as me. I am out of that trance, have found self worth and compassion and am not tolerating his scapegoating and blame shifting any longer. Or his control.

Thanks for responding!

[PearlsBefore]

Depends whether or not it's BPD...

If it's BPD, "nope".

[once removed]

can you be more specific?

i know you said "every aspect of your life".

but "does the controlling get better" is a question lacking a lot of context for us to help.

what is he trying to control? how are you responding?

[izzitme]

Hi Once Removed,

I can give you examples from the past week. He overall treats me like an incompetent child who needs his constant input to function. I had esophageal surgery last Friday and when the Dr. gave him the post-op report, the only question my husband thought to ask was if this all was even medically necessary. Undermining my decision. When I got home from the hospital, he demanded an accounting of how many of the special protein drinks I consumed. When I pushed back and told him I wouldn't answer such probing, he called me a b*tch. When ordering takeout for him, he stands over me while I am on the phone giving the order whispering "you said this wrong, you didn't say that, say this". When I suggested he should call his own orders in, he tells me it is sad that I can't handle it. I am super excited about Easter dinner this year because the college kids can come since I am fully vaccinated because I work in Healthcare and he is fully vaccinated because of heath issues. I was talking excitedly about how I am going to do it up big, pulling out all the old family recipes. He shot me down, as he always does on holiday cooking, eliminating all but what he wanted. I told him I would shop and cook the foods myself, I wouldn't trouble him with my endeavor. He responded that I was just looking for a fight. He tells me my children don't love me and has forbidden each of them in the house for random things like not having time to leaf blow his whole yard. I have 4 from a previous marriage. I have only lived in my husband's house 3 years. It is a 10 year dating but 2 year marriage. He has forbidden me from drinking iced tea from the local coffee shop even though I pay for it with my own money. We do very well financially. I recently got diagnosed with Lupus, but this summer before we knew what it was, it attacked my legs and I had to walk with a cane. He tried forcing me to go for a walk, causing me to fall and forbidding me from taking the med my Dr prescribed for the muscle spasms. And just now, as I was typing this, he gave me verbatim what I am to say at our puppy's upcoming vet appointment. Whenever I push back, I become "the bad one, just like his ex wife". I feel so smothered and caged. My therapist is helping me enforce boundaries but I get verbal abuse back, threats of divorce and last week he threw the remote. I know this was long. It became cathartic as I was typing.

[Cat Familiar]

He will continue to control you as long as you are compliant with it.

I say that, not to be critical, but as someone who was in a similar relationship with my ex husband.

You can’t drink ice tea! He made you walk without a cane! He prevents you from taking prescribed medication! He second guesses medical treatment!

This is terribly abusive and controlling. I didn’t even mention preventing your children from visiting.

It’s no wonder his ex wife is an ex.

That said, changing this pattern will involve extinction bursts and lots of angry words. It is possible, but it won’t be pleasant.

If you choose to make these kinds of changes, you must hold firm to your boundaries, otherwise it will teach him that if he behaves even worse, you’ll fold and he will prevail. It might be wise to choose one area to begin with.

Perhaps “I’m following medical advice.” Nothing more need be said.
 

[PearlsBefore]

It certainly sounds like he can be a very frustrating person, possibly still also with his own baggage from his own previous marriage. In "good news" I'd say that while the behaviors you describe are definitely aggravating and annoy you, they do not sound specifially as though he has Borderline Personality Disorder.

It's great that you're seeing a therapist to help you with your own boundaries, do you know if he's spoken to anyone about how to healthily reinforce his own boundaries? (Hey man, if you're reading over her shoulder as I suspect you might...throwing the remote, not the healthiest outlet).

Don't forget that if he's talking divorce, it's likely he's also feeling frazzled and at his wit's end - even if it's just his emotional reality. It might be worth seeing a marriage counselor  together, instead of separate therapists? In my own experience, the only guideline was that the marriage counselor had to be of Abrahamic faith-background and had to be married themselves...after a couple one-time visits to people we didn't like, we found a married couple who offered counselling through a house of worship quite a distance away from us but they were worth the extra travel.

I sympathise with your comment about ordering food on the phone, haha - again it's not specifically BPD-related but I have those people in my life who do the opposite and drive me equally insane. They're ordering tonight instead of me and I'm just like "I'll just have a burger and coke", then it's "Hey Pearls, did you want mustard on the burger?" "Whatever's fine, just normal" "Okay how about ketchup? This is the place that puts a lot of ketchup on one side of the burg..." "Yeah, whatever's fine" "Do you want onions? We're going over to visi..." "Whatever's fine", "It's an extra 29 cents for a large coke, or do you want a diet coke?" and the whole process takes more time than if I'd just driven out to get it.  I've spent decades explaining I really don't care - I'll eat whatever shows up, don't care if they accidentally made it spicy or not spicy enough or didn't give the proper ratio of cheese to mushrooms...doesn't matter, Every. Single. Time. But they'd probably write a long complaint here that when they say they want Fish & Chips I just order it and don't consult them on how much salt they want and whether the tartar sauce should have a lid on it.

Sometimes we just have to laugh about it, because otherwise it'll drive us insane

[izzitme]

I think he has more traits of NPD rather than BPD. The constant criticism, he knows the only right way of doing things, the rages over us not doing exactly what he wants when he wants it, physical violence when we don't do things his way, dismissing all my likes and interests. Pearls, you asked about marriage counseling and him having pent up emotion. His ex wife accused him of abuse and left him. He cannot bear this label and when I stand up for myself and call him a bully, he threatens divorce to shut me up. I went to counseling with him. He would only see his therapist, so we went and he carefully controlled the narrative. When I objected and told my side, he stuck his finger in my face and screamed at me the whole car ride home. I am not allowed to disagree with him or else he flies into a rage and when others hear me crying, he makes me go to them and say I brought it on myself from my abuse of him. All this being said, sounds more like NPD than BPD. I need to find resources to help myself.

[bpdgourmand]

I am a newb (who reads a lot,) so I'd defer to the  veterans and professionals here, but my understanding is that:

- NPD and BPD are not mutually exclusive
- NPD is more prevalent in males, and it does sound like the worst of this resembles NPD
- I would suggest that it might not matter which, and might not be worth figuring out definitively? 

Believe me, I totally understand the drive to "make sense" out of the Jekyll/Hyde stuff.  Your own self-image/self-worth may be part of this.  "How can this person, who I was sure loved me, be acting this way now?  What causes my loving friend to appear or the person who must clearly hate me?  There must be a pattern!"   ...I've lost so much time and energy to this.

I am nowhere near qualified to judge, but you are describing a situation where you are being controlled and abused physically and might have real safety concerns, or be in a scenario that could degenerate into posing real safety concerns.

I would strongly recommend you do that MOSAIC test, and get the advice of the elders here. If you are not safe and need to get out, please try to focus on that before trying to work out what permutation/combination of personality disorders your H should be dX'd with.  Just go.

--

If I've learned anything, it's that these things are complicated, and sometimes "it makes no sense" is the best you can do.  If you are safe, and are staying, get lots of advice here, and learn to be comfortable with being unsure of things. Whichever the case may be, you cannot "fix" him, and he won't get better without doing a lot of work himself. If he never gets that, and will not put effort into getting better, it really does not matter what label he should have.

Trying to help. Hope that wasn't too harsh.  I feel for you.  Cook for your own joy, and the joy of feeding people who appreciate your doing it. Don't let him take that from you. Hold the line on that.

[once removed]

being a really critical person is a style not unique to bpd or npd. personality disorders, or personality disordered traits, can tend to speak more toward what motivates it, but at the end of the day, a hyper critical person is a hyper critical person, and its very difficult to live with in and of itself.

I am nowhere near qualified to judge, but you are describing a situation where you are being controlled and abused physically and might have real safety concerns, or be in a scenario that could degenerate into posing real safety concerns.

I would strongly recommend you do that MOSAIC test

i would tend to agree with this.

some of what you are describing is hyper critical behavior. some of it, for sure, a bit more.

generally speaking, physical violence takes precedent over everything; over really any other problem in the relationship. its difficult, if not impossible, to improve upon anything else until that is dealt with.

can you both take the mosaic test and share your results here, and tell us more about whats going on?

[I Am Redeemed]

I took the MOSAIC you suggested and scored quite high.

Have you shared this with your therapist? What kinds of things does your therapist suggest for setting boundaries?

The book that rum2020 mentioned, Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft, says that abusers are generally resistant to change controlling and abusive behavior because they are getting something from behaving this way in relationships. It gets them something they want which is usually power and control. Many people in abusive relationships believe that the abuser really doesn't want to act this way and they just need help. Bancroft, who has worked with domestic abusers for decades, says that this perception is usually incorrect- the abuser most often doesn't want to give up their behavior because they are more concerned with getting what they want than the impact their behavior has on other people.

How do you feel about your score on the mosaic assessment?