Update on divorce, etc.

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

At the risk of saying something that might offend, I want to ask if your excessive generosity might be a shelter against feelings of guilt over initiating the divorce?

I have been wondering the same. Also at the risk of offense, I think your reasons for why you want to be generous have some truths, but are ultimately based on justifying the root motivating factor: divorce is stressful, you have a lot on your plate, and you want it done to relieve yourself of the burden of going through it.

[I Am Redeemed]

At the risk of saying something that might offend, I want to ask if your excessive generosity might be a shelter against feelings of guilt over initiating the divorce?

I have been wondering the same. Also at the risk of offense, I think your reasons for why you want to be generous have some truths, but are ultimately based on justifying the root motivating factor: divorce is stressful, you have a lot on your plate, and you want it done to relieve yourself of the burden of going through it.

[GaGrl]

And...

...that you come out of the divorce looking like the White Knight that you've played throughout the relationship.

[stolencrumbs]

Hmm. No offense taken.

At the risk of saying something that might offend, I want to ask if your excessive generosity might be a shelter against feelings of guilt over initiating the divorce?

I don't *think* so. I don't really see any settlement I am willing to accept as being excessively generous, though that isn't the main point here. I don't feel a lot of guilt anymore over initiating the divorce. I think it was absolutely the right thing to do. I do think I will feel guilty if, in three months, we are ordered to sell the house, she loses her health insurance, and has to rely on my generosity to pay for her car or other expenses not covered by whatever alimony she gets. I will feel bad about that.

I have been wondering the same. Also at the risk of offense, I think your reasons for why you want to be generous have some truths, but are ultimately based on justifying the root motivating factor: divorce is stressful, you have a lot on your plate, and you want it done to relieve yourself of the burden of going through it.

Yes, this is absolutely a motivating factor. I want it done. I don't want it dragging into the fall. I don't want to devote more mental space to navigating a trial and whatever comes after that.

...that you come out of the divorce looking like the White Knight that you've played throughout the relationship.

Idk. Maybe. I don't think I have much of a need for this, and I'm not sure who would view me that way anyway. I think it is probably a continuation of a long-standing habit of not acknowledging or asserting my own needs/wants, and I guess I've decided that I'm fine with that for some defined period of time into the future.

[formflier]

So...there are several important points that I think (hope) are about to connect.

Let's take it at face value that you have no need to be overly generous/white knight (whatever you call it).

So then it's not about you..it's about her.  As in you aren't concerned about your feelings instead you are more about wanting "what's best for her".    (are we on the same page so far?)

Then consider this quote

  I do think I will feel guilty if, in three months, we are ordered to sell the house, she loses her health insurance, and has to rely on my generosity to pay for her car or other expenses not covered by whatever alimony she gets. I will feel bad about that.

And consider other comments about "infantalizing" her.  (Which I will define as treating an capable adult as less than an adult by doing things for them and TRAINING them to expect others to do things for them...THAT THEY ARE CAPABLE OF DOING THEMSELVES AND SHOULD DO THEMSELVES.

Do you get the concept of "infantalizing"?

Do you see how others can take your way of relating to your wife as "infantalizing"?

Do you agree with that view?

There are some follow up questions..but this is so critically important that I hope we can dwell on these three questions a bit.

Best,

FF

[stolencrumbs]

So...there are several important points that I think (hope) are about to connect.

Let's take it at face value that you have no need to be overly generous/white knight (whatever you call it).

So then it's not about you..it's about her.  As in you aren't concerned about your feelings instead you are more about wanting "what's best for her".    (are we on the same page so far?)

Then consider this quote

And consider other comments about "infantalizing" her.  (Which I will define as treating an capable adult as less than an adult by doing things for them and TRAINING them to expect others to do things for them...THAT THEY ARE CAPABLE OF DOING THEMSELVES AND SHOULD DO THEMSELVES.

Do you get the concept of "infantalizing"?

Do you see how others can take your way of relating to your wife as "infantalizing"?

Do you agree with that view?

There are some follow up questions..but this is so critically important that I hope we can dwell on these three questions a bit.

Best,

FF

I don't think we're quite on the same page. I guess I do want what is best for her, but I am not attempting to substitute my judgment of what is best for her for her own. I know what she tells me she needs/wants. To the extent that I can, without sacrificing things that really matter to me, I am willing to try to give her that. I don't know if that is what is "best" for her. She is an adult. She can articulate what she wants or needs, and I can decide what I am willing to do with respect to helping her achieve what it is she wants.

And I think this is related to a bigger disagreement that I suspect we are not going to agree on. I would reject your definition of "infantilizing." I don't have any interest in attempting to train another adult human being. That seems like infantilizing. We train children. We know better and we set up systems to guide their behavior towards the outcomes we want. I don't want to look at and treat another adult that way, and I don't think I do.

But generally, yes, I get what infantilizing is. I guess I see how others could think that. But no, I don't agree.

[GaGrl]

I don't think you are purposely trying to infanticize your wife, but I see the result of years of your providing for all of her needs, wants, and demands as having resulted in doing so. She is now so accustomed to not working, not taking care of her own financial obligations (house, car, insurance), tapping into an account to which she does not contribute, expecting you to provide all house maintenance -- that she has now reached a level of entitlement that leads to her expecting you will do this forever (alimony in futuro).

Again, it is highly unlikely she will get the alimony she is demanding. And it is highly likely the judge will direct that the house be sold and that finances be separated. At that point, a woman who hasn't had to function for a number of years will find herself forced to function.

Continuing to over-function for her now is doing her no favors for later.

In your case, over-functioning and assuming she is incapable of taking care of herself has, even if not intended, infantilized her. And if you think she is capable of taking care of herself, let her start now.

[formflier]

To the extent that I can, without sacrificing things that really matter to me, I am willing to try to give her that.  

This is the phrase I hope you can focus on...I suspect it reveals a lot about your "thinking" or "process"...basically the way the "gears turn" in there and produce the "therefore I will do x"

So..I think this is reality for you because you could give her access and let her spend down the money until there just isn't anymore (general summation of your financial situation)...because you could..you did.

What I (and I believe others) are trying to get you to consider is "should" you do (fill in the blank).

If I do (blank) for my wife for several years will she be more or less resilient?

I'll have to think on the infantalizing thing for a bit, maybe pick it up later.  Not sure we have same word meanings.

Best,

FF

[GaGrl]

FF, I agree that we are not on the same page with the definition of "infantilizing."

 "Enabling" seems too passive.

Is there a concept of term somewhere between?

Whatever it is, it is not a healthy or good approach right now, in this divorce action.

[formflier]

Maybe "regression".

Here is a question.  Stolencrumbs, is your stbex more or less capable of doing things on her own now, compared to several years ago?

Maybe "providing for herself" should be substituted for "doing things".

Best,

FF

[Cat Familiar]

I’ll look at this situation from a different perspective. When I got together with my current husband, he was in the midst of a divorce from a woman who sounds much like your wife, minus the property damage and non-self-supporting status.

He gave her everything she wanted and in doing so, incurred a huge financial loss, leading to not having much to show for many years in the workforce as an attorney. Not a great marriage prospect for a middle aged guy!

However, I’d known him through a group of friends for a long time and knew he was a good guy. However, there were questions…

I wondered about his attachment to the ex, why he let her have the very expensive house without a fight, why he walked away with virtually nothing. Why he couldn’t assert himself. Why I was choosing someone with a much smaller net worth at this point in my life, after divorcing a guy who couldn’t support himself.

Some years down the road his fortunes changed and he inherited a huge, unexpected sum of money, which has made life immeasurably easier.

Just thought I’d give an outsider’s perspective of how this might appear to the next woman in your life.

[I Am Redeemed]

. I think it is probably a continuation of a long-standing habit of not acknowledging or asserting my own needs/wants, and I guess I've decided that I'm fine with that for some defined period of time into the future.

I think this is exactly what it is.

What is the defined period? How will you begin to advocate for yourself when this defined period is over?

[Cat Familiar]

Perhaps it’s time for both you and your wife to learn new strategies to help you navigate in the new world you’re both entering into.