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Author Topic: Niece  (Read 431 times)
AuntWithBPDNiece

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Family other
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 6


« on: March 26, 2021, 12:24:12 PM »

Hello all,

My husband and I took in my teenage niece a few months ago.  At first, everything seemed great.  She was in school and doing well.  She was helpful around the house and helping to take care of our baby.  We really thought she was taking steps to recover from some major childhood trauma.

But then she got arrested for Minor In Possesion.  No big deal right?  We all made silly choices as teenagers.  But the story.  The story didn't make any sense.  We knew parts of it had to be lies but we couldn't get to the truth so we shrugged and moved on.  Next, she got a DWI.  And again, the story was clearly not true and didn't match any of what we could find out. We thought we would dig a little deeper so we pulled the police reports.  It turns out in both cases (and some others) she called the police on herself.  Then everything started falling apart.  She became very unreliable and we could frequently find holes in her stories.  She's been through several groups of friends, many of which we never meet.  Then, one day those friends are just gone and there's a new group.  Each time the drama at the end never quite adds up.  We don't know how she's doing in school because the story changes every time we ask.

Now our problem is that she's in a relationship and he has no idea.  We are worried that he doesn't understand the trouble he is in but we don't know how to help. He is risking jail time because of the same kinds of drama mentioned above.

This whole situation is just draining.  We love her dearly and she's been through her share of trauma.  But now we don't know how to sort out what is real and what isn't.  We thought she was in therapy but now we are fairly sure that is a lie too.  There is so much more to this, but this is a good start.  Thank you guys in advance for the support.

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Methuen
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 1731


« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2021, 05:33:51 PM »

Hi AuntwBPDN,

It sounds like yourself and H are genuinely good and caring people wanting to help out family and niece at a difficult time.  Niece has past trauma.  My guess is that you are trying to make a difference in her life, by taking her into your home, and putting in the time and effort to support her.

At first, it seemed to be working, but now you are finding that she is not being truthful, she's unreliable, she's involved with police (by phoning them herself about herself), she's lying because her stories keep changing, and there's a lot of drama.

Excerpt
Now our problem is that she's in a relationship and he has no idea.  We are worried that he doesn't understand the trouble he is in but we don't know how to help. He is risking jail time because of the same kinds of drama mentioned above.

1) Do you want to be taking on this problem? ("that he has no idea", and that he is risking "jail time"?) What do you think would happen if you intervened with him, and told him about her, and that information got back to her?
2) Is the niece diagnosed?
3) What are the niece's goals while she is living with you?  
4) Was there any discussion in advance, regarding guidelines for living in your house?  Are you OK with the stories, the police activity, and lying?  Perhaps based on the history leading up to this, you were expecting some of that in advance?
5) What are your own goals and boundaries in this situation?  (keeping in mind that the boundaries are for you, and not for her)

I'm a little unclear, if the bigger problem is how she is affecting the equilibrium of your household now that she is part of it (i.e. your well-being), or if your only concern is for the well being of the boyfriend?

Lying about therapy is a  Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post), if that is what she is doing.  

Could you call the school administration and request a "progress check" including academic performance and attendance?  If they won't release that information to you because you are not the legal parents, her legal parents could call, or grant the school permission to release that information to you.


« Last Edit: March 26, 2021, 05:47:04 PM by Methuen » Logged
AuntWithBPDNiece

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Family other
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 6


« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2021, 09:06:15 AM »

Methuen,

Thanks for your response.  She is 19 and in college so I don't know that the school will release the information.  I can ask her parents to try though; thank you for the suggestion.  Her parents are very supportive but they were at a loss on what to do with her.  They have tried everything they know how to do.

1) Do you want to be taking on this problem? ("that he has no idea", and that he is risking "jail time"?) What do you think would happen if you intervened with him, and told him about her, and that information got back to her?

We don't think there is any way to warn him that will not negatively rebound on our ability to try to help her.  I am just very worried that he is facing a year in jail time because she lied about him breaking her arm.  I hate sitting back and watching someone else's life get ruined.  We don't shield him from the lies though so hopefully he will see the red flags.  He seems smitten though.

For example, one of her stories about why she was out all night involved his sister.  We asked him about his family and he said he has two brothers.  We told him that was odd since she mentioned hanging out with his sister the night before.  He looked genuinely confused.  But we feel like any more direct of an approach will just lead to her not bringing him over at all.

We thought about asking the police to look into her other arrests since her tendency to lie is documented in some of those.

2) Is the niece diagnosed?

She is not.  A therapist that saw her suggested it as a possible diagnosis but she stopped seeing that therapist shortly after. We are pushing to ensure she is in therapy now but we are struggling.  She had significant childhood and early teenage trauma and was in therapy for several years but it wasn't with the same person the whole time.

3) What are the niece's goals while she is living with you? 

She moved in here to be the nanny for our baby and go to college.  We were hoping that a fresh start with family but not parents would help her get on track.  We felt that the gentle guidance of not parents might sit better than the more controlling guidance typically provided by parents.  At first, that really seems to resonate with her. 

4) Was there any discussion in advance, regarding guidelines for living in your house?  Are you OK with the stories, the police activity, and lying?  Perhaps based on the history leading up to this, you were expecting some of that in advance?

We did have some ground rules but we were unaware of the depth of the history of calling the police.  The ground rules in our house are pretty simple mostly amounting to she has to make choices that keep her safe.  We knew of some of her problems but hearing them and living them have been very different. We also were completely unprepared for the continuing lies.  Her parents had curfews and rules about who she could hang out with.  We tried to transition her to making those choices for herself as an adult.  We were shocked to find out she was still lying to us about where she was and who she was hanging out with.


5) What are your own goals and boundaries in this situation?  (keeping in mind that the boundaries are for you, and not for her)

We are just starting to have to define boundaries for us.  Her choices can't impact the baby.  She is no longer allowed to take him out of the house; which defeats much of the purpose of bringing her here.  There was an incident where she took him somewhere unacceptable.  We have told her that we will no longer loan or provide her money to resolve her legal issues.  We are trying to stop getting caught up in the stories or their truthfulness.  For example, when she's late and has a big dramatic story we listen, but we don't change our behaviors based on her stories.  We are trying to stop investing energy in sorting out the truth.  For a while, we were calling the police and her friends to try to uncover the truth but that is just draining.  She

To date, the only part of the equilibrium she is throwing off is when she shirks duties that force me to work from home and watch my son at the same time.  I have ended up with some very stressful weeks when she is in jail or needing support solving her numerous legal problems.  These events are also mentally taxing which is impacting my husband's ability to focus on work and school.  We are trying to find new boundaries that allow us to still be there for her if she is ever ready, but allow us to have the energy to focus on each other and our other priorities as well.  She was beginning to consume all of our energy before my husband found this website.

She hasn't been a stellar influence on our teenager either; he is now smoking pot and sneaking out of the house.  That might have happened anyway, but she is absolutely normalizing the behavior.


Aunt
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Notwendy
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 10440



« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2021, 09:20:47 AM »

I am wondering if there's any way she can live on campus. However, school is letting out for the summer soon and realistically that would be in the fall- if she continues in school.

In the US, since college students are legally adults, colleges will not release academic information to anyone, including the parents. However, students can sign a waiver to allow the college to release information and designate who. You could consider this as a contingent to having her live with you. I don't know how this works outside the US.

Ultimately it is your home and she's a legal adult and you are not obligated to house her if she's being disruptive to your family and does not comply with agreements.
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Methuen
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 1731


« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2021, 07:37:22 PM »

Hello AuntwBPDn,

You are right that colleges will not release information.  My mistake as I misunderstood and assumed that she was school age.  Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post)

You have described some red flag behavior going on with your niece.  ...arrests, possession, lying, changing stories, a revolving door of friends, a boyfriend who could go to jail, and not attending therapy...

Excerpt
We don't think there is any way to warn him that will not negatively rebound on our ability to try to help her.  I am just very worried that he is facing a year in jail time because she lied about him breaking her arm.  I hate sitting back and watching someone else's life get ruined.  We don't shield him from the lies though so hopefully he will see the red flags.
So if I'm understanding this right, her arm got broken in some way, she filed a police report that he did it which is untrue, but he's going along with that story?  If I'm understanding that right, perhaps the two of them are hiding some facts from you, which are worse than the lie of him breaking her arm.  Why else would he go along with that story?  Or maybe I'm not understanding things correctly?  On the other hand, if he is denying that he broke her arm, he shouldn't go to jail for it unless there is evidence that he did it (or so I would hope).  My spidey sense thinks there must be much more to this story...  

Are you familiar with the Karpman triangle?  
https://bpdfamily.com/content/karpman-drama-triangle
It is worth reading this article to the very end.  I would be very cautious about intervening, and jumping into the triangle in the rescuer role.  

Excerpt
We are pushing to ensure she is in therapy now but we are struggling.  She had significant childhood and early teenage trauma and was in therapy for several years but it wasn't with the same person the whole time.
Hmm.  How does she feel about the therapy she had in the past?  Did she find it helpful?  Often/sometimes/never?  If she is resisting therapy currently, it might be worthwhile to hear her thoughts about therapy, and use that information to help inform a strategy moving forward.  Perhaps a new therapist, or a new program, or better yet...does she have ideas about what could be most helpful for her?  That might give more "buy in".  If she's in a place where she doesn't acknowledge any problem (despite arrests, possession, lying, changing stories, a revolving door of friends, a boyfriend who could go to jail), then that is another level of problem.

Excerpt
She moved in here to be the nanny for our baby and go to college.  We were hoping that a fresh start with family but not parents would help her get on track.  We felt that the gentle guidance of not parents might sit better than the more controlling guidance typically provided by parents.  At first, that really seems to resonate with her.
I caution against thinking you and H can be a fixer because things went so well in the beginning.  We are currently helping our daughter recover from a situation where 4 girls (grad students) living together had a successful first year together.  One girl was always (quirky and odd with social issues) but they all accepted her and supported her.  Now, at the end of the second year together, the living situation has deteriorated because it turns out the girl has a serious mental health issue, and is threatening suicide.  She has groomed the other 3 girls to be her rescuers.  Our daughter doesn't feel safe to be in the house with this girl, so we drove for two days and are giving her a space to live and study in our hotel.  Now the Faculty is involved and has offered the girl a leave of absence to attend to her health.  Lay people like us can't "fix" the mental health issues of other people.  They have to "buy in" to wanting and receiving professional help.  Sometimes, even the professionals are unsuccessful at helping.  We can all try to do our best, and with effort and maybe luck some good can come of it sometimes, but when someone else's problems start to take us down too, we have to recognize when to step back and look after ourselves, and gently let the person find their own way, hopefully with professional help, because it is beyond what we can do.

It sounds like you are setting good and reasonable boundaries for yourselves.  

 
Excerpt
For example, when she's late and has a big dramatic story we listen, but we don't change our behaviors based on her stories.
It's good that you are not changing your behaviors based on her stories.  But I am wondering about just how much more listening to her big dramatic stories you want to be doing.  By listening, you are still participating in her drama in a way.  Forgive me if I am way off base, but I am wondering if asking validating questions, might be a strategy that could be used in this situation?  It might slow her down, and guide her "thinking compass" a little... as pwBPD generally have poor executive functioning. They are usually impulsive, and generally unable to problem solve or see consequences.  I have found "asking validating questions" to be a helpful tool in my interactions with my uBPD mom.
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=273415.0

She sounds like a handful.  Is this sustainable for you?

NotWendy has offered brilliant ideas for solutions.  I would strongly support any of these.  
« Last Edit: March 29, 2021, 07:47:23 PM by Methuen » Logged
AuntWithBPDNiece

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Family other
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 6


« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2021, 10:56:49 AM »

Methuen,

Her arm was not broken but she led the police to believe it was.  She was holding our baby with both arms and no problems a few hours after the reported incident.  She claims to him and us that the police made that up and she had nothing to do with it.  The police report indicates that she was holding it at an awkward angle and winced when they tried to touch it.  She refused medical.  The boyfriend seems to believe her story, but we do not.  She also reported to the police that she lived at his house.  This means that when they put a no-contact order in between them, he was prevented from going to his own apartment.  He has since been kicked out of his apartment and they have been hotel hopping for a few weeks.  The no-contact order is this big drama in their lives that continues the trend of nonsense.  They talk about it all the time, let it cost them both their jobs, live in hotels but do nothing to resolve it or abide by it. 

He does seem to be very controlling and admits to having a temper but we haven't seen any injuries on her.  There have been so many stories between them that don't add up that we don't even know where to start.  We stopped trying.  The lies may be only on her part but we have no way of knowing.  He comes over sometimes and seems very respectful but people that meet her superficially see her as very "together" as well.

I did read up on the Karpman triangle now and it was very helpful in understanding how to safely and reasonably define our relationship with her.  Thank you.

For her current mental health, she dodges any direct questions about it.  We talk to her about some of our concerns and she listens but never responds.  We suggested therapy but hit a brick wall when she lied and said she was going.  Her parents confirmed that she is definitely not going.  We have talked to her about how the lies damage trust and all she says is "I can see that".  But when we suggest therapy she either lies and says she is going or just doesn't respond at all.

I am sorry to hear about your daughter's situation.  It can be very easy to get caught up in trying to fix someone else's problems.   She is lucky to have parents who are there to help her.  Especially for young adults, that knight in shining armor role feels so good.  I feel like we were getting dragged into that role but the information here has really helped us understand the importance of boundaries.

Sustainability is a great question and that has been our focus for the last few weeks.  We have made some changes in the household structure to make it better.  We cut her hours and all cash payments completely and put our baby in part-time daycare.  This prevents her drama from impacting my work as much.  She only covers 15 hours a week now which I can manage if I don't get them.  These hours cover the costs of her room, board, and school expenses only.  We have also stopped advancing her money to help solve her problems.  She did, much to our surprise, finish all the back hours she owed us for her previous escapades.  We let her know that there will be no more deals like that.  Honestly, since we made these changes we feel like she is moving towards leaving.  She hasn't spent a night here in a few weeks other than when her mother visited.  We are worried that her leaving will unbalance her even more but recognize that there is nothing we can do to stop it. 

I will read the link you sent next.  Thank you!

Aunt
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AuntWithBPDNiece

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Family other
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 6


« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2021, 11:34:40 AM »

Wendy,

Thank you!  I checked and her school does have a form.  I'll talk with my husband later about whether we want to pursue that route.  I appreciate your help!

Aunt
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