"Conversing" without making things worse

[truthdevotee]

Today I had a long talk with my pwBPD. I allowed her to speak for as long as she wanted - "needed." Everything was blame and criticism without exception.

I looked toward the 12 year old within her that feels angry, entitled, superior, righteous, judgmental, etc. Over the years my capacity to sit and listen and to see her in her projections has gotten stronger. I'm still not consistent though.

If I want to save the relationship and keep the family intact, I need to do two things: 1) converse with my pwBPD in a way that helps and doesn't hinder, and 2) follow my heart / inner guidance at all times.

This post is about (1).

When she's in this angry state, the tension in her voice used to get to me. Today, I could see small impulses toward resentment within me - resentment arising from inner judgements regarding her "selfishness," "childishness," "arrogance," "projections," etc. Holding in mind her emotional age and the fact that this is a mental illness is helping me to withdraw my own perceptions.

The anger I feel at being completely invisible and seemingly "walked on" in all of our communication might be understandable - I feel more inner acceptance toward these feelings because I now understand how hard it is to have a partner with BPD. I used to self-criticize a lot for not being "stronger."

However, ultimately I want the relationship to stay together, so I need to focus in on my communication skills, on a new level. Thankfully there are so many resources on this forum.

The resentment is getting less, but it's still there within me sometimes, and it can arise spontaneously by saying the "wrong" things (in the eyes of my pwBPD), which simply makes things worse. So I'm working on awareness of these small comments which are normally attempts of my ego to get some element of "self" into the "conversations."

I listen and validate her feelings... in the past these "conversations" would go on for hours and hours and I'd lose sleep. I would be invisible and empathize, validate, hold physically, etc. These days I'm balancing awareness of my own needs, so if after a certain time period I need space, I'll go for it. This unfortunately angers her, but if I do it as gently and "respectfully" as possible, I can bypass some of her anger.

It seems that the only way is "in." By diving into these conversations with pwBPD, I hope to be able to help her. If I avoid, resist, etc., it just enrages her more and the kids feel it. However, if I retain a loving non-judgmental energy field and attitude, her intensity still remains the same but it's the smoothest way to pass through the "storm."

I've mainly looked at the SET technique so far and one more from the book. I see there's a bunch of others I need to study, learn and practice.

How much will mastering these skills help the quality of my marriage to pwBPD? How much will these skills actually help her - can they help her?

What is the brain doing in BPD from a neuroscience perspective? Understanding this may help me to lessen my unconscious and conscious resentment.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[truthdevotee]

OK, after writing that post above I had another round of "conversation" with pwBPD. I went through it, she got hungry and I left the house for a few minutes. I'm on a walk now.

I feel the resentment. Somehow I judge her childishness. Am I expecting too much of myself to "transcend" this judgment and resentment which I experience as pain in my body? Why is it so hard to see her childishness and self centerednes whereas seeing it in my boys is easy and I love and accept them anyway?

[truthdevotee]

When I got home, she felt close to me again and wanted to sit on my knee. I was feeling the resentment. I think this is because I absorbed her anger.

I gently shared that I feel I receive no empathy or recognition of my reality. Additionally I shared that I feel frustrated that she isn't aware of much I empathise with her reality, despite 98% of the words from my mouth being expressions of empathy and validating.

This sharing of mine resulted in what it always results in, even though I shared gently- an outburst of rage from pwBPD in front of the kids. I feel sad... So sad for my boys. My pwBPD just can't fathom or understand that I have personal thoughts and feelings and perspectives. She appears to deeply believe that I must see things exactly as she sees them... That seems to go way beyond empathy - it is like a requirement to 100% merge with her and be invisible. And then she tells my boys that I disrespect her after I told them not to feel scared of mummy's anger

[truthdevotee]

My older son is sad about his mum and dad "arguing" (I don't argue, I listen and validate or share gently)

It's so sad because I never wanted my children to experience the sadness that I felt regarding my mum and dad fighting. They were good parents and stayed together even until now, but those arguments in my childhood hurt me. Now my beloved son feels sad too =(

[Notwendy]

I gently shared that I feel I receive no empathy or recognition of my reality. Additionally I shared that I feel frustrated that she isn't aware of much I empathise with her reality, despite 98% of the words from my mouth being expressions of empathy and validating.


I think these long conversations are a path into the drama triangle with you still in rescuer mode and your wife in victim mode. You are both taking on your part in this- you trying to "help" her or "fix" her. When you gently shared this kind of feeling- you took "victim mode" and placed her in "persecutor mode" ( you don't understand me, I don't get any understanding). You basically "made her wrong" with this statement, expecting her to take on rescuer mode with you by understanding you.

I think you were on the right path of taking care of yourself by listening to her to a point. Your feelings of resentment were your clue that you were crossing the line to your own tolerance of this.  When you "dive in" with the intent of "helping" perhaps you are diving into the Karpman triangle. This draw to dive in and help is your own issue- what pulls you in to the drama triangle.

I think you have observed that these conversations don't help. The result of the Karpman triangle is that, no matter what role people are on it, the triangle leads to them feeling like a victim. When you "shared" you were taking on victim role. Your wife was already in victim role.

Rather than attempt to share your point of view, or look to your wife to understand you, perhaps consider how to not continue them. It seems you went for a walk and then "shared"- which is when it escalated. Perhaps next time, pay attention to your feelings of resentment- this is your cue to self care. "Honey, I think I need to take a break right now" then you disengage. Yes, she might react with anger, but if you disengage, gently and without being reactive, you might have an impact on this pattern. While it's tempting to judge her, keep in mind you play a part in this too and focus on your role in these interactions.

[truthdevotee]

Thank you so much for this insight Notwendy. I didn't see it. What you shared clarifies the situation a lot for me.

So my wife has been blaming me for ignoring her for 1 month. I've become persuaded that I should start engaging without leaving the conversation so often. I remember now that resentment is my cue. What's awful is that for me to heal and stay within my integrity, she feels victimised by me "ignoring" her for "1 month." It looks like, progressively, I've been lured back into the triangle through the guilt I feel when she tells me how I've ignored her.

I'm jumping right back out of the triangle this instant. It's amazing how I've fallen back into the triangle without even noticing. It appears that my desire to be unconditionally loving is actually caretaking.

My feeling of anger is my guide to knowing that my boundaries are being crossed. You taught me this about 3 weeks ago, and I've forgotten because my W is so convincing that I should be engaging in these pointless long and frustrating conversations, if "I loved her and was a good husband"

It's sad for the boys to be in a situation where

[Notwendy]

I think it might help to get centered about your own values- what is a good husband? Sure, this also includes considering your wife's feelings but sometimes- what a person wants isn't always good for them.

Ask your 4 year old what a good Dad is and he's probably going to say something like "A good Dad buys me any toy I want and lets me eat candy for dinner".

You know better.

Your wife may think a good husband does whatever she wants him to, but that isn't realistic. There are two people in a marriage.

These long talks may be ways of her managing her own uncomfortable feelings. Yes, it's good to be supportive in general but perhaps this isn't helping her in the long run.

[GaGrl]

"Conversing" implies a conversation that is two-way. Your wife is not engaging in a conversation -- she is talking AT you, not WITH you.

[truthdevotee]

Thanks Notwendy and GaGrl,

I'm focused on gently re-establishing this limit.

[truthdevotee]

I think it might help to get centered about your own values- what is a good husband?

I'll reflect on this, thanks for suggesting Notwendy. It's so important. I've asked my W and others to define "my" thoughts and feelings, and I can't do this anymore.