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Author Topic: Mediation breakdown and PC report  (Read 514 times)
RestlessWanderer
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« on: March 29, 2021, 12:07:06 AM »

Last Thursday we had our mediation. My attorney and I spoke with the mediator first. We came up with, what I thought, was a reasonable offer considering my income and our joint assets.I can't say that 'twas really surprised by my STBX declining the offer, her unreasonable counter offer, or the fact that she was angered and shouting over her attorney. Now our settlement's fate will be in the hands of the court.
The next day we finally received the priority consultation report. No recommendations yet, but the report set the tone for what is likely to come. In the report, the evaluator was unable to rule out whether or not STBX is abusing opiates. He also, independently surmised that she has difficulty controlling her erratic emotional outbursts. His final statement in the report said that he couldn't recommend our son be unsupervised while with her.

It was so validating reading that. My attorney found more significance in the statements regarding opiates. But it meant more to me that he called out her emotional disregulation. In a way that may prove to be more valuable since she could technically show that she isn't abusing drugs but her volatility would remain.

I hope that the recommendations will be coming in the next couple of days. This will tell us if I will retain custody, and assume name any conditions for joint custody.

Next up on the calendar is the interim support hearing on 4/29.




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EyesUp
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« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2021, 08:00:30 AM »

Hello RW,

Thanks for the update - I've read a number of your posts, and recognize some similar dynamics in my experience.

Just wanted to say - hang in there and good luck.  I hope things go your way.
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« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2021, 09:55:44 AM »

Good! But keep in mind that she might still not see herself as losing and she likely still feels entitled. That's the part that is maddening.

This situation is similar to playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how smart or unpredictable your moves are, the pigeon will still stamp across the board and strut around like it won the game anyway.
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GaGrl
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« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2021, 10:11:18 AM »

The fact that she took the settlement money from the accident and spent it should be a factor in the interim support, right?

It makes it look like she is spending on opiates.
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« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2021, 04:01:41 PM »

There’s a good chance that she passed up a better offer than she will receive in court.

That’s excellent news that a professional assessment recommends against her having unsupervised visits.
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« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2021, 07:35:58 PM »

So how much child support will you be seeking?



Okay, I surprised you, right? That was to help you remain in perspective.  Likely you, the lawyers and even the court will assume you will be the one paying some level of support, of not for your child, then for your spouse.

But you will have primary custody of your child for the foreseeable future, right?  So you shouldn't be facing payment of child support.

However, interim spousal support may be the issue and if she's not working now court may look to you as the one with big pockets.  (1) Be sure you have prepared some paperwork, even if only estimates from your memory, listing her past employment and approximately how much she earned.  (2) Stress that she is an adult and if not working now then capable of working again.  (3) At the least ask that any support ordered have an imputed income to offset that amount.  (4) Likely they will give her time to find employment.  Beware that she will try to delay that as long as possible.

Don't be overly generous in spousal support, if ordered.  After all, you don't know how long a divorce case might last.

You've been married for about 9 years, so that may be categorized as a medium length marriage.  A post-divorce alimony may be a possibility but it is never more than half the length of the marriage and details can vary depending on the circumstances.  (My alimony schedule was based on my marriage's length at the final decree and was set for 1/6 my years married... 18/6=3.)
« Last Edit: March 29, 2021, 07:42:22 PM by ForeverDad » Logged

RestlessWanderer
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« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2021, 02:20:18 AM »

Thank you all for the great support and feedback. Today I received the recommendations from the priority consultation. He recommended I retain physical custody of our son, as well as continuing with supervised visitations. He also included hair follicle testing for her along with ongoing weekly counseling. The fact that he didn't require me to do any drug testing in spite of her allegations that I have anger issues and abuse my prescription medications was quite telling.I took that to mean that he found me credible. More validation.

I will be sure to talk to my attorney about child support owed to me. We will likely push for that and the 50k to factor into the settlement. With any luck she will continue to demonstrate her inability to control her emotions the next time we meet in front of the judge.

I must confess that this good news is a little bittersweet and I wont count my eggs before they hatch. I can't find happiness in the fact that someone I care about is being her own worst enemy. But rest assured that I won't let it be anything more than that. I'm merely recognizing the sentiment. I refuse to lose sight of the way that I was treated and my motivation to protect my son and myself from continuing to live that way. So I don't feel any shame having some compassion, but that won’t get in the way of me fulfilling my role as my son's protector.
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« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2021, 07:21:25 AM »


I would encourage you to "take the gloves off" and resist trying to be fair.

If you have a desire to be "fair"...I would focus it on pressing the court to impose restrictions on how she gets at any settlement that comes her way (even monthly alimony)

Whether or not a trustee can be appointed or someone that can pay expenses directly.   Is there any doubt she DOES NOT need access to funds? 

I also want to commend you for seeing this through.  Keep up the good fight.

When you have time...can you expand on "shouting over her lawyer"?  Was it in general or were there certain subjects that seemed to set her off.  How was the shouting handled in the moment?

Best,

FF
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RestlessWanderer
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« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2021, 10:46:28 AM »

I have a great attorney who is very familiar with the judge. She has a good feel for how aggressively to push for certain issues. She knows what to expect from the judge. For example, in the PC recommendations he recommend that the visits take place at the local crisis center. Right now the crisis center is only having visitations via zoom. That would be a major step backwards from 3x a week, and would devastate my son. My attorney thinks that the judge would want to have in person visits on par with what has been occurring over the last 3 months. I might stand to lose more if we were too aggressive. So we’re going to show the judge that we are willing to show that despite STBX’s best efforts to sabotage herself, I still see the importance of encouraging an ongoing relationship between mother and son.
STBX is going to end up looking like a liar with her many false accusations that I can disprove with evidence, not to mention rescinding her permission for the PC to talk to her doc regarding her chronic pain management plan.

Im not sure exactly what happened during mediation. We met with the mediator separately. All she relayed was STBX was angered by the reasonable offer (which by the way the mediator had us reduce from our initial proposal), would not listen to reason, and was shouting over her attorney as her attorney made some attempt to keep professional. But her attorney and her seemed to feed off of each other as I understood it. As an attorney the mediator thought she was acting like every addict she’d seen in court.
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« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2021, 11:08:17 AM »

I have a great attorney who is very familiar with the judge. She has a good feel for how aggressively to push for certain issues. 

This is critical!  Good job here with this attorney.

How familiar is your attorney with BPD/addicts?  How familiar is the judge with BPD/addicts?  Has the attorney ever done a divorce with this judge that involved BPD/addiction?  (if you haven't asked the questions this specifically..probably a good time to do so)

And it's ok if the answer is no.    If the answer is no..then "ok..given what we believe to be true about addicts/bpd and how that would affect my son...how do we present this to the judge"

You are in a great position...it's critical that you don't at all try to save your stbx.  In fact...give her every opportunity to get better and also every opportunity to fail...and try to set things up so you don't have to go back to court in either instance.

So...automatic consequences either way.  X number of clean drug tests and an endorsement from her therapist result in additional supervised visits.  Failing a drug test and/or failing to provide the drug test and/or failing to provide affirmative endorsement from her therapist result in reduction of supervised visitation.

Switching gears:  What would be a step backwards and devastate your son?  I'm missing something.

If following the current professional advice is a "step backwards"...I would not in any way try to undermine that.  Perhaps "consequences" will provide "motivation" for better behavior/outcomes.

Yes...it would be devastating in the present and may result in a better long term outcome.

Yes..it would require you to once again step up and support/validate/care for...completely valid feelings on your son's part.

 Virtual hug (click to insert in post) Virtual hug (click to insert in post) Virtual hug (click to insert in post) Virtual hug (click to insert in post)

Best,

FF
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RestlessWanderer
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« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2021, 06:15:09 PM »

FF, my attorney is familiar with BPD. She has represented and gone up against them. Before family law she was a prosecutor and deputy DA, so she has plenty of experience seeing addicts in court. I'm not sure about the judge, but I'm sure she's experienced plenty of addicts.

I like your ideas about conditions for her to prove herself. I've been thinking of what conditions I'd like to impose. I will be sure to use the ones you mentioned.

Regarding your question about my son, for the last three months he has had visitations with his mom three times a week. If that was changed to one supervised zoom call a week (which is what the crisis center is doing now due to COVID) I think he would have a really hard time coping with that dramatic change. It's been hard enough for him as is.

I understand what you’re saying, and I've thought about a lot. I talked about it with my therapist and attorney. My therapist is saying the same thing as you are. My attorney definitely understands that approach too. But she is anticipating how the judge is likely to lean so she thinks it would be better to show the court that I value maintaining the mother/son relationship as it is (supervised and scheduled). Her fear is that by ending the status quo the judge may actually give my ex more than she currently has. On the other hand, if we stick with the status quo and the judge rules to adhere to the recommendations as they appear in the PC report we won't have to worry at that point.

Regardless, I will continue to provide the support my son needs.
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« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2021, 06:46:48 PM »


OH..I see.

So you would say.  Judge we are concerned with the report and also concerned with the impact a reduction in parenting time on my son, so even though the professionals recommend a reduction...we are ok with keeping it as it.

Then if judge says "I'm going with professionals" and reduces it...it is "on the judge" vice something you pushed for.


Best,

FF
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ForeverDad
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« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2021, 01:02:46 AM »

Courts seem to make orders that aim for the problem parent to regain or ramp up more parenting.  Sounds positive but there's a problem.  They don't generally include a process within the order on how to address things getting worse (relapse) and so the matter goes back to court for a hearing or series of hearings which can take months for a resolution.  Here's one of my prior posts on that scenario.

... What is a "less bad" scenario for you?  You can have a "least bad" goal but you can also have other "less bad" goals too...

One perspective to keep in mind is this, the court might put some trust in the experts' opinions and when they do that, they look at the options already in the court order.  They are possibly inclined to proceed to the next stage, trying out supervised visits.  But one huge failure of the court is that typically when they proceed to loosen up a little, they don't allow for going backward to prior years of minimal contact.  So when things do blow up - a real concern - then the order typically won't specify what to do and it all has to go back to court to address that.  That could take more months waiting on your day back in court.

What I'm saying is that when you're in court, you and your lawyer need to include (or try to include) in the court's order a way to put a pause on supervised visits as appropriate without waiting months for court to approve doing so.
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RestlessWanderer
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« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2021, 10:33:01 PM »

Today was the first visitation since the PC report and recommendations were filed. My mom supervised and reported that in the last hour STBX could no longer contain herself and started saying negative things to my mom in the presence of our son. She said that I was kicking her out of the house, I thought she was a monster, that my mom and I were going to regret the way we were treating her especially by the time S is a teenager (referencing comments she’s made before inferring S was on his way to becoming an addict due to the divorce), and accusing me of harassing the owner of a place she was close to renting (apparently someone called the owner right before she signed a lease which lead to him backing out).

Earlier in the afternoon my attorney had sent a message to her attorney proposing continuing the visitations at our former home with my mom supervising. As soon as I heard about what STBX had done I called my attorney and we agreed to rescind the proposal and opt to follow the PC recommendations of supervised visitations at the local crisis center. My attorney promptly sent a message to her attorney notifying her of the rescinded offer.

Hesitating to act swiftly would have made it more difficult to adhere to the recommendations. Thankfully the PC report is only a few days old.

FF, as you suggested, the gloves are off.
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ForeverDad
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« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2021, 11:52:33 PM »

And frankly I think your mother will be glad to get out of supervision issues.  She would hate being in the middle and it would only get worse.
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RestlessWanderer
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« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2021, 12:19:58 AM »

I understand how my mom feels. So I tried to reassure her telling her about how I too have felt guilty, but I remind myself of how I was treated day after day. Yes this is going to be hard on my son, but the parental alienation STBX is subjecting him to would be far more damaging.
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« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2021, 06:54:00 AM »


Any chance your mom recorded the interaction?

Best,

FF
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worriedStepmom
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« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2021, 08:34:17 AM »

We followed ForeverDad's advice.  Our custody agreement has step-down provisions.  Right now, uBPDmom sees SD13 about 45 days a year from 10 am - 6 pm.  If mom does X, Y, and Z, she steps down to supervised visitation.

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« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2021, 09:06:11 AM »

I think you made the right choice to go with the PC recommendations. Supervised zoom calls can be recorded so there will be video evidence of her interactions with S.

Your son has a therapist, if I remember correctly? The impact of the reduction in visits is something that a T can help with. I think you are right that it is far more damaging for him to witness her lashing out at your mother than to deal with suddenly not physically visiting with mom. It's also probably best for your mother, and additionally, it's preferable that a professional third party supervise.

Plus, this is about the bottom line of restrictions on visits. Whether or not mom moves up the ladder to more time and less restrictions will now be up to her and you can build in consequences if that happens and she falls back: "if mom x, y, or z then visitation reverts back to 1 hour supervised zoom"

Be prepared to realize that with a bpd/addicted parent, instability and changes in type/frequency of visitation is probably going to be a thing. As Forever Dad said, it's about what is "least bad" for your son as far as exposure to her behavior. It's impossible to completely shield him from any and all negative impact. But you can support him and help him build emotional resilience through all of this.
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« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2021, 03:50:05 PM »

How long should video or audio calls be?  Hard to put a specific time length.  An hour may be too long for a young child.  Enforced daily contact may be a bit too much as well.

Young children have a shorter attention time spans, depending on the activity.  I recall when my son and I were on vacation when he was about 4.5 years old.  (I had notified her well in advance but she said No.  It was a vacation notice, not a request, so we went anyway.  She tried but failed to get an Amber Alert.)    She refused to call but due to her complaint my lawyer asked me to start the call every few days.  They were always just a few minutes before his attention wandered.  I recall one phone call, about 5 minutes, where he said goodbye at least 5-6 times.  Maybe it would have been different with a video call but that wasn't feasible back then and on the road.
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