Lack of respect for boundaries and smear campaign

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi guys, this is my first post. It's not actually a significant other, more like a very close friendship with someone of the opposite sex (a gay man). We've been sort of "best friends" for 10 years and in this time we've had so many fights, in which I, of course, am always the villain. There have been suicide threats, actual suicide attempts, substance abuse, slandering, verbal aggression, many accusations of abandoning him. Either he loves me beyond comprehension or he absolutely hates my guts. And we've always made up because I know he has a lot of issues, like very deep depression, anxiety, BPD and I suspect there is more. So in spite of the unbearable way he behaves at times, I always feel like he can't help it, and he definitely needs a friend, and he's great company when all is well, and so I have remained his friend. But this last time things have gotten to a point where I just don't want to do it anymore.

Basically he was offering me expensive gifts and holidays in five-star hotels, but then I found out he had gotten a hold of my credit card and I was the one paying for everything. When confronted, he said he would pay me back and that I shouldn't worry, but only hours later he asked me to lend him money. I said no and that set him off, just because, according to him, I made a weird face and he felt rejected. So we had this huge fight and he threatened to leave, but then came back and we ended up sorting it out. The next day was Easter, we were supposed to have lunch with his family and it was a 2 1/2 hour drive. Last year I had a very bad accident and since then I've been sort of traumatized, so he offered to drive my car, and I let him.

That was a huge mistake, as he started to drive waaaay too fast, and I mean over 140 Km/hour. I asked him repeatedly to slow down and that only made him drive even faster and then he started screaming at me, still angry about the face I'd made the previous day. Said he didn't want me to ruin his family lunch so he wouldn't take me, and that I should go ruin someone else's lunch. Finally I couldn't take it anymore and said, "stop the car, I want to drive". After terrifying me for a few more minutes with dangerous driving he finally stopped at a gas station but got his suitcase and left my car, and refused to go on with me. Said he would rather stay there and Uber himself home. I have anxiety issues myself (generalized  anxiety disorder and social anxiety, although mild) and he knows it, and I was just desperate to get out of there, and since he wouldn't get back in the car, I did the unthinkable. I left.

The moment I drove away, I knew he wasn't going to miss this opportunity: he immediately started messaging his family, all his friends, all our mutual friends, even MY family, MY mother, he posted on Facebook, on Instagram, saying I had abandoned him in the middle of nowhere when he was most vulnerable, and that he had done nothing wrong, that I was unstable, unbalanced and in need of treatment. And to this day he's still committed to this smear campaign on social media. They always know what will hurt the most, and they use the things they have learned about you through intimacy to hurt you. He used my accident to terrify me, used my credit card, even after I specifically asked him to stop. Even after I left in my car. I had to cancel all my credit cards. So there are no boundaries he will respect when he's in the "devaluing" phase, and at the same time, nothing I do is ever good enough. See, right now he's posting lies and distortions about me on Facebook, as I write this, and if I respond, he will use my reply against me. If I block him, he will say, "see how she abandoned me? I was right." You just can't win. And I don't know what to do, if I should let him slander me and be quiet or defend myself. I know only one thing, I do not want to ever speak to him again.

[Giulietta]

Hi guys, this is my first post. It's not actually a significant other, more like a very close friendship with someone of the opposite sex (a gay man). We've been sort of "best friends" for 10 years and in this time we've had so many fights, in which I, of course, am always the villain. There have been suicide threats, actual suicide attempts, substance abuse, slandering, verbal aggression, many accusations of abandoning him. Either he loves me beyond comprehension or he absolutely hates my guts. And we've always made up because I know he has a lot of issues, like very deep depression, anxiety, BPD and I suspect there is more. So in spite of the unbearable way he behaves at times, I always feel like he can't help it, and he definitely needs a friend, and he's great company when all is well, and so I have remained his friend. But this last time things have gotten to a point where I just don't want to do it anymore.

Basically he was offering me expensive gifts and holidays in five-star hotels, but then I found out he had gotten a hold of my credit card and I was the one paying for everything. When confronted, he said he would pay me back and that I shouldn't worry, but only hours later he asked me to lend him money. I said no and that set him off, just because, according to him, I made a weird face and he felt rejected. So we had this huge fight and he threatened to leave, but then came back and we ended up sorting it out. The next day was Easter, we were supposed to have lunch with his family and it was a 2 1/2 hour drive. Last year I had a very bad accident and since then I've been sort of traumatized, so he offered to drive my car, and I let him.

That was a huge mistake, as he started to drive waaaay too fast, and I mean over 140 Km/hour. I asked him repeatedly to slow down and that only made him drive even faster and then he started screaming at me, still angry about the face I'd made the previous day. Said he didn't want me to ruin his family lunch so he wouldn't take me, and that I should go ruin someone else's lunch. Finally I couldn't take it anymore and said, "stop the car, I want to drive". After terrifying me for a few more minutes with dangerous driving he finally stopped at a gas station but got his suitcase and left my car, and refused to go on with me. Said he would rather stay there and Uber himself home. I have anxiety issues myself (generalized  anxiety disorder and social anxiety, although mild) and he knows it, and I was just desperate to get out of there, and since he wouldn't get back in the car, I did the unthinkable. I left.

The moment I drove away, I knew he wasn't going to miss this opportunity: he immediately started messaging his family, all his friends, all our mutual friends, even MY family, MY mother, he posted on Facebook, on Instagram, saying I had abandoned him in the middle of nowhere when he was most vulnerable, and that he had done nothing wrong, that I was unstable, unbalanced and in need of treatment. And to this day he's still committed to this smear campaign on social media. They always know what will hurt the most, and they use the things they have learned about you through intimacy to hurt you. He used my accident to terrify me, used my credit card, even after I specifically asked him to stop. Even after I left in my car. I had to cancel all my credit cards. So there are no boundaries he will respect when he's in the "devaluing" phase, and at the same time, nothing I do is ever good enough. See, right now he's posting lies and distortions about me on Facebook, as I write this, and if I respond, he will use my reply against me. If I block him, he will say, "see how she abandoned me? I was right." You just can't win. And I don't know what to do, if I should let him slander me and be quiet or defend myself. I know only one thing, I do not want to ever speak to him again.

[PearlsBefore]

Most people will assume that anyone who voluntarily attaches themselves to a pwBPD must themselves be either narcissistic or co-dependent. But obviously sometimes it's not, sometimes it's genuine charity and altruism and a belief that "Well, I guess I'm able to bear what other cannot so nobody else is going to help them...".

I mention this because it's not unrelated to the idea, at least in my experience, of being screamed at because your actual thoughts were visible on your face even while you struggled to hide your disdain, correctness or pity. When they say "omg, you SAY you don't want to fight about it, that you forgive, but YOUR FACE says you think I'm stupid and pathetic and not worth your time!". Obviously the next thoughts through my head are "...and how am I the bad guy here for saying more charitable things than I'm actually thinking?" If I could hide my true feelings more, I would.

Be prepared things could get worse; in my own case I was accused of more than just being a terrible friend who abandoned them - but the pwBPD essentially took stories from our time together, swapped out our names and managed to capture everyone's imagination with their "poor me" narrative that neglected to mention they had swapped the names in the stories.

I mean, "good news" is that while it took about 2.5 years of hell, wherein doctors, police, relatives and community leaders believed the upside-down story...eventually all of them had tried to help this poor "victim" of my terrible friendship, and all of them had been likewise gaslit and even publicly blamed for the pwBPD's failings...so we're now in a situation where I feel like 90% of the community understands the truth is that the pwBPD made up all of these stories for attention. There will always (seemingly) be the whispers in the community that started only with this strange charity-case that "Y'know, PearlsBeforeSwine isn't exactly normal, accused of 100  cruel and unusual things, if even one of them is true..." - but at least we got to the point where my quiet resolve and continued help towards society's outcasts...while refusing to re-engage with this particular pwBPD who has a family history of other issues as well...ultimately did convince those that mattered.

[Giulietta]

Most people will assume that anyone who voluntarily attaches themselves to a pwBPD must themselves be either narcissistic or co-dependent. But obviously sometimes it's not, sometimes it's genuine charity and altruism and a belief that "Well, I guess I'm able to bear what other cannot so nobody else is going to help them...".

Yes, this is really hard, I would honestly rather be alone and peaceful than go through this again, but every time he comes up with a sad story I just feel so sorry for him. He has already alienated almost everyone else, there was me and there is his mother. And he won't have her forever. But I need to accept that he's not my responsibility and just go and live my life, and stop living in turmoil, which is exhausting. He's a grown man after all.

I mention this because it's not unrelated to the idea, at least in my experience, of being screamed at because your actual thoughts were visible on your face even while you struggled to hide your disdain, correctness or pity. When they say "omg, you SAY you don't want to fight about it, that you forgive, but YOUR FACE says you think I'm stupid and pathetic and not worth your time!". Obviously the next thoughts through my head are "...and how am I the bad guy here for saying more charitable things than I'm actually thinking?" If I could hide my true feelings more, I would.

Exactly! You think, "yes, as a matter of fact I DO think your actions are pathetic but I don't want to hurt your feelings, I just want peace".

Be prepared things could get worse; in my own case I was accused of more than just being a terrible friend who abandoned them - but the pwBPD essentially took stories from our time together, swapped out our names and managed to capture everyone's imagination with their "poor me" narrative that neglected to mention they had swapped the names in the stories.

I started researching these days and I've seen some truly horrible stories, and I have been quite lucky in that sense, although I think he might try to sue me. Not that he has any reason, but he threatens to sue everyone who disappoints him.

I mean, "good news" is that while it took about 2.5 years of hell, wherein doctors, police, relatives and community leaders believed  the upside-down story...eventually all of them had tried to help this poor "victim" of my terrible friendship, and all of them had been likewise gaslit and even publicly blamed for the pwBPD's failings...so we're now in a situation where I feel like 90% of the community understands the truth is that the pwBPD made up all of these stories for attention. There will always (seemingly) be the whispers in the community that started only with this strange charity-case that "Y'know, PearlsBeforeSwine isn't exactly normal, accused of 100  cruel and unusual things, if even one of them is true..." - but at least we got to the point where my quiet resolve and continued help towards society's outcasts...while refusing to re-engage with this particular pwBPD who has a family history of other issues as well...ultimately did convince those that mattered.

I really do think that most people won't believe him in the end, because they have gone through the same thing with him, and those who have met me know my character. Oh well, I guess I'll just sit here quietly and resist the urge to fight back. The truth will come out eventually.

Thank you for your reply! 

[Cromwell]

I think there can be a push factor of sorts of believing it might be important to have 1 foot kept in the relationship out of the belief that in doing so, there is some ability to have some influence on trying to avert things like this happening. I thankfully was not on the receiving end of this style of problem but my exBPD had plenty of stories to tell me of being victimised in the past. How credible they are - I have since as time went on started to doubt them. When i finally did leave I just did it in a very absolute way, complete shut off, and was too depressed to even care what the fallout would be, which somehow gave I suppose that 'strength' to do just that. Not care either way, what she would do, if anything.

How it turned out is nothing of problems, Id suspect based on her history I will have been bad mouthed here and there, but by going complete shut down and zero contact, she turned up at my door once and swore drunkenly and I just did not open it.

Im not sure if what I did was the "best" solution and it was emotionally incredibly painful to deal with even without being subject of lawsuit and all other things ive came to learn from other experiences.

Giulietta, it can take a lot of self - resolve, and focus entirely on "number one" and that I believe does involve having to let go of the glue that keeps this bond going on perpetually. Guilt feelings for instance might be part of that and being guilt-tripped can be easy to do and a strong emotion to try and curtail. What id share is that the intensity of that feeling of worrying about my ex and this idea she was entirely helpless and I shouldnt leave. It is one of these situations that is sort of half-truths. Yes she was/is very troubled. No she wont "disintegrate" by me leaving her, but I might just if I continued to stay with her. Plus I did not like how my life had evolved to become a carer of sorts. Some might say, enabler, and id be onboard with that too.

Think about it, you are here to tell us what happened. But at reckless high speed driving as you describe it, it is the equivalent of playing russian roulette with one owns life, what else but luck is it that you are still alive?

I dont think im being melodramatic at all. What im doing to help detach and remove this doubt. Have an unshakeable attitude to self value your own life and just how jeapoardised it was that day/those moments and dont let that budge. Leaving the relationship and not going back, guilt etc, can get over, your limbs and life we only get one of. Its a no-brainer choice. Hope things work out positively and thanks for joining and sharing.

Cromwell

[Giulietta]

Hi there Cromwell and thank you for your reply. You are absolutely right and I have no doubt that leaving is the only thing to do.

Last night things kind of escalated. Since he was posting about me and I wasn't reacting in any way, he started tagging me in his posts, mentioning my name, insisting that I abandoned him, vulnerable and lonely, at a gas station. No mention of the huge bill he left on my credit card and I still don't even know how I'm going to pay. No mention of the abuse he was hurling at me before I asked him to stop the car. And of course, no mention of the reckless driving that risked my and his life and certainly will cause me a few tickets and maybe even the loss of my driver's license.

Anyway, since I did not react to his posts, he started messaging me directly by SMS, calling me the most horrible names and saying he has relapsed (alcohol) because of me, because of all the horrors I allegedly did to him. He had been sober for 6 months and I was helping him. Now, I know it's not my fault and he's saying that because it's easier to blame someone else than to take responsibility for his actions. But it still is very hurtful to hear/read. When he noticed that he was blocked on other mediums he emailed me threatening me. Said if I appear in front of him I'm going to be sorry. I truly don't understand so much hate and cruelty. I blocked him on every possible app/medium that I could think of and I'm never going back. Still, this is really hard.

[Cromwell]

Hi, The aim is to try limit the damage and not encourage more. His dysregulation will fizzle out, if left to do so, but it is like a fire begging for more oxygen - this requires other people to provide the fuel source.

Can I ask, are you dealing with day to day life ok considering what happened or have you been very much affected by this. Is this distressing incident something that is seen as an issue kind of, but part of the rest of life, or has it became sole focus of attention?

I sort of wish I had just stayed away from her and given myself complete space to recover from the first traumatic moment. It did not happen that way, I got sucked by in like oxygen to the fire. It became more damaging than the original damage that I could have dealt with.

Well id especially stay clear from him with the threats as well, I think likelihood is "if" he is drinking, thats not the best combination for him in the midst of dysregulation. For my ex, when there was no one who wanted to listen or involve themselves, the bus shelter would get attacked until the police turn up to arrest her, and that would be her way to "soothe".

What I mean is overall, hurtful as it is, not to take it personal because it is not truly about you it is about needing an object of some sort, in otherwords, if you are not around it has to be someone else. We were not nearly as "special" as we might have liked to have felt.

Stick in with the courage in the work you are doing at self protecting, its the only way I know it works, and yes it is incredibly difficult but it does lead somewhere positive in the big picture and long term. Keep in touch here and anyone close you have for support. Hope you get some time to unwind the adrenaline, relax and calm.

[Giulietta]

Can I ask, are you dealing with day to day life ok considering what happened or have you been very much affected by this. Is this distressing incident something that is seen as an issue kind of, but part of the rest of life, or has it became sole focus of attention?

Well, the first fights we had I was pretty much destroyed and incredibly shocked so,  sadly, I sort of let that take center stage in my life back then. But by now there just isn't the same kind of affection on my part. Every dig at me, every bit of abuse has made me like him less and less, and yesterday, before he started messaging me nasty things, I was actually doing quite well and feeling... free? His attitude just disgusts me, which is good, I think. But then after what happened last night I was, of course, a little shaken. Still, if I simply have no further contact with him, I'm pretty sure I'll be fine. As long as he doesn't  come to my house or files some lawsuit or something. Not that I would open the door or anything, but it would upset me for sure.

Well id especially stay clear from him with the threats as well, I think likelihood is "if" he is drinking, thats not the best combination for him in the midst of dysregulation.

It did occur to me that he may be lying about drinking again, just to manipulate me into reacting as he wants. Thankfully it didn't work, I do not care if he's drinking or not, I just have to think that what happens to him is not my problem. He is no longer my problem. I keep repeating it like a mantra, .

What I mean is overall, hurtful as it is, not to take it personal because it is not truly about you it is about needing an object of some sort, in otherwords, if you are not around it has to be someone else. We were not nearly as "special" as we might have liked to have felt.

I hear you! Thanks for listening, and for the reply! Will keep in touch.

[Lucky Jim]

I just have to think that what happens to him is not my problem. He is no longer my problem. I keep repeating it like a mantra, Laugh out loud (click to insert in post).

Hey Giulietta, Right, you are not responsible for the well-being of another adult.  Took me a long time to wrap my head around this concept.  The urge to jump in and rescue is there for a lot of us Nons, including me, but now I no longer act on it.  I recognize it and let it pass.  I find that things go better when I let things play out naturally.  Plus, it's a lot healthier for me!   

LuckyJim

[Giulietta]

So he's blocked in everything but his emails do come through. Last night he made it known that he's filed a lawsuit against me. Wants $20,000 in "moral damages", said he started drinking again because of me and that I'll have to repay him, and that I need psychiatric treatment. Man, this is really hard... I swear it would be laughable if it wasn't tragic. Of course he (probably) won't win, but when I think about everything I'll have to go through just to defend myself, I just lose the will to live. 

[Upandown]

I have recently in the past one week or so begun to view some videos from Sam Vaknin.  Before I did I had read various internet posts that were pro and con about him as a person and if he is a legitimately educated "expert".  However, I found the content and his speaking style and vocabulary and seeming thoughtfulness very helpful; I was specifically listening to some talks about borderline personality.  One of the more unusual aspects that he discusses is that borderline can be or is a type of Dissociative Identity Disorder.  But the alters are not as distinct.  They can be of various types but one is the psychopathic personality; which is triggered in certain situations.  He then goes on to say that they do not choose to be evil in this state but are evil.  An interesting distinction.  In the various relationships I've been in over the years with people having borderline traits, I go back and forth about how negatively to view them.  But I think there is a benefit to us in viewing some of them as extreme in some situations.  Sort of the idea that the truth will make you free.  Let's not pretend that a significant part of their behavior is not evil - one definition: "something that brings sorrow, distress, or calamity."

[PearlsBefore]

They can be of various types but one is the psychopathic personality; which is triggered in certain situations.  He then goes on to say that they do not choose to be evil in this state but are evil.  An interesting distinction... Let's not pretend that a significant part of their behavior is not evil.

While I don't typically agree with much of what Vaknin says, it's worth noting in response to your quote that one of my dBPDs has suffered since teenhood with intermittent beliefs she is demonically possessed. She's truthfully done some things to/with her sons that I think society would agree is outright evil, except she'll never be caught as those of us who know about have had to try to stop it without informing law enforcement due to her and their...precarious nature. To make it even more stereotyped, she did spend a portion of her teens wearing chains, listening to death metal and doing the "Hot Topic Goth" thing...though she's now approaching 40.

It's one of the reasons why I understand why FAMILY has to still love and support and help these individuals who are the most extreme cases of BPD...but to people who are casual friends, dating or otherwise not "obligated" to save them...I typically advise running as fast and as far as you can and hoping the pwBPD forgets you ever existed.

Most BPDs are manageable and just in need of guidance and therapy to overcome their inner demons. "Most" isn't very reassuring once you've seen stared into the abyss.

[B53]

G,
If you keep a copy of all that he is sending, then I don’t think he will have much proof that you’re the one with the problem. Have you thought about getting a restraining order.? You have plenty of proof that he is harassing you.

I would stay as far away from him as possible and don’t respond to him. The proverb is “give a man enough rope and he will hang himself.”

BPs, really have being mean, down to an art. Best of luck.

B53

[grumpydonut]

@upanddown

Sam Vaknin, as you say, is not qualified to say the things he says with any real authority. He is an intuitive thinker, and I would caution you to take everything he says with a "grain of salt". 

[Giulietta]

G,
If you keep a copy of all that he is sending, then I don’t think he will have much proof that you’re the one with the problem. Have you thought about getting a restraining order.? You have plenty of proof that he is harassing you.

I would stay as far away from him as possible and don’t respond to him. The proverb is “give a man enough rope and he will hang himself.”

BPs, really have being mean, down to an art. Best of luck.

B53

My country's legal system doesn't have restraining orders. I mean, it's not unheard of, but they are quite exceptional and granted in very few cases, where there has already been actual physical violence within a family.

Yes, I do keep copies of eveything he sends me. Sadly, he sent me, I think you would call it a demand letter, or notice of demand, which I had to respond to, much against my will, seeing as it is a legal thing containing accusations that may be used against me in his lawsuit if it's not responded to (it might imply that I was accepting them). So I replied... which is the one thing I didn't want to do, and that prompted a new set of abusive emails, which I'm keeping. I think after this he might give up on the whole lawsuit idea, which is frankly absurd.

Thank you!

[B53]

I hope he gives up and leaves you alone.
Best of luck!
B53

[csquare319]

Basically he was offering me expensive gifts and holidays in five-star hotels, but then I found out he had gotten a hold of my credit card and I was the one paying for everything. When confronted, he said he would pay me back and that I shouldn't worry, but only hours later he asked me to lend him money. I said no and that set him off, just because, according to him, I made a weird face and he felt rejected.

So typical of pwBPD.

My heart goes out to you, Giulietta. Thank you for this post, great reminder to myself that even after months into my recovery, I still need to keep the boundaries well in place with my pwBPD, and limit my interactions with her to as little as possible. Hope everything works out for you.

[Giulietta]

Just an update on my situation. I've hired an attorney who's taking care of all the legal matters (lawsuit, debts he left on my credit card, personal protection etc). I've given her carte blanche to act on my behalf, told her she can do whatever she sees fit, as long as I never have to see or speak to him or his family ever again. God knows she has plenty of material to work with, what with all his threats and insults and the credit card bills and the slandering posts on social media (all of which I've saved).  I've blocked the whole family from any contact with me. So now I'm much poorer and emotionally drained, but also calmer. I just hope he gets bored and finds some other passtime soon.

Thanks everyone for the supportive posts and the incredible amount of information that I've found on this site. It's been liberating to learn that many of the horrible things he has said and done to me actually stem from his mental illness, and are not my fault, and the number of similar stories, although sad, makes me feel less "alone" in a way. I was beginning to doubt myself. It helped me realise that my BPD friend is not actually a monster but someone to be pitied. By breaking up our friendship and distancing myself from him I will (hopefully)  get to live a normal and relatively drama free life again, which he probably never will.

[Ragdolllover]

So now I'm much poorer and emotionally drained, but also calmer.

I know this doesn't really help, but being calmer, drama-free and reducing your anxiety, surely is PRICELESS.

I hope everything goes well for you. You sound like a very empathetic person, probably why you put up with him for so long, and still now, it seems like you're still feeling empathy towards him...

I will (hopefully)  get to live a normal and relatively drama free life again, which he probably never will.

I had the same conversations with my counsellor, even when I was at my worse, I used to think, "If I'm feeling this bad, he must be much worse" and immediately feel sorry for him... High empathy is almost a perfect storm for enabling BPD sadly... but this doesn't mean it's bad. You just need to find the right people to give this empathy to, people who won't abuse it or take advantage of it. It's still a positive character trait, don't forget that. You just have to work hard to make sure it doesn't draw you back in...

[Giulietta]

I know this doesn't really help, but being calmer, drama-free and reducing your anxiety, surely is PRICELESS.

I agree wholeheartedly! No money in the world is worth my peace of mind.
 

You sound like a very empathetic person, probably why you put up with him for so long, and still now, it seems like you're still feeling empathy towards him...

I had the same conversations with my counsellor, even when I was at my worse, I used to think, "If I'm feeling this bad, he must be much worse" and immediately feel sorry for him... High empathy is almost a perfect storm for enabling BPD sadly... but this doesn't mean it's bad. You just need to find the right people to give this empathy to, people who won't abuse it or take advantage of it. It's still a positive character trait, don't forget that. You just have to work hard to make sure it doesn't draw you back in...

Exactly. Well, Lord knows I'm not a saint or anything. I hate his guts right now. But we're talking about someone who has been on psychiatrical treatment and therapy for at least as long as I have known him, which is like 10 years. And he's not getting any better, even taking 11 psychiatrical drugs prescribed by a "famous" doctor and having a counsellor with a Stanford PhD. He's an alcoholic, has deep depression, anxiety, BPD and most likely also Narcissistic Disorder. Considering the pain that a mild case of a simple anxiety disorder is causing me, I can't help but wonder what it must be like for him. I was the friend he still had. Now he has: a) a number of acquaintances who will eventually leave, b) a controlling and very unstable mother with some money. He should be pitied.

Thank you so much for the good wishes and for reminding that empathy is not a bad trait. After all of this, it is a great reminder.

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear Giulietta-

I am deeply sorry for what you’ve been through with your friend.  Really what he’s repeatedly put you through.  I understand the constant urge of trying to help, feeling sorry for the suffering he’s expressing.  Please know, it doesn’t end.  You know that. 

And what you cannot willingly give, he will secretly or criminally take.  Now you know that, too.  It’s so hard to learn these things about someone whose friendship and love you cherished.

You asked in your other post if comorbidity of BPD and NPD  was a possibility.  From up close and painful personal experience I’d say yes.  But it took me years to figure out why BPD research alone wasn’t quite “fitting” my exBF’s damaging behavior. 

Toward the very end of our relationship in 2/2020 I truly began to understand that NPD was ruling his behavior, although there ARE strong BPD components.

I came to understand that I was “functional” for him.  I served him.  That’s what he “loved” about me.  And he loved that deeply.  But if I slipped up in any “functional” area, there was hell to pay.  Or if he had any sense that I discovered any “weakness” in him.

Anyway my friend, all of this crystallized for me when I found Dr. Ramani on You Tube.  She’s a PHD therapist from L.A.  Just google “Dr. Ramani Narcissism”.  Her videos are each pretty short, very informative and may truly show you what you’ve been living.  (Please watch the videos where she’s alone, not with the guy).

When I first read your posts, I thought your friend may have some very strong narcissistic traits.  Dr. Ramani’s insight will help you if that’s true.

Detaching is difficult.  Our minds and memories can fool us into wanting to remember the Love and the laughter we shared.  I FORCE myself to remember my exBF’s cruelty and WORST actions.  He still tries to bring himself to my mind through periodic contact.  Silently I call him words like “weak” instead of fragile, and “pathetic” instead of pitiful.  He has ALWAYS known help was available.  He chose not to obtain it.  And I consider that weak and pathetic.

Please take good care of yourself.  And if you watch Dr. Ramani, please let me know what you think.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Giulietta]

Thank you so much, Gemsforeyes! I will watch Dr. Ramani's videos tonight!

Yes, you know, it still hurts deeply to think that someone I considered my friend could do this to me. And I was guilty of allowing it to a certain degree, should never have met him again, or let him drive my car, or accepted gifts from him, as I'm now being charged for them, and definitely should not have allowed him to get away with so much over the years. I won't allow it ever again, my attorney thinks she can get a restraining order and so he will be forbidden from contacting me or my family. This message board and this site have been extremely helpful.

I will let you know about Dr. Ramani's videos for sure! Thank you!

[Giulietta]

OMG Gemsforeyes, I've watched her video "When narcissists know YOU know..." and it was like a revelation. I saw my friend exactly.Thank you so much for sharing this with me, I feel like I've finally understood what was going on all this time, and all the manipulation that went on when he made me feel like the worst person in the world simply because I didn't do what he wanted, or even because I was better than him at something. He definitely does have both BPD and NPD. I've googled NPD as much as I did BPD and her explanation is by far the best I've seen.

[Gemsforeyes]

Oh Giulietta-

I am so glad you saw that, so glad!  We want to argue with ourselves... but sometimes we can’t.

The last night I saw my exBF (on 2/13/2020), when he left my home in a horrible RAGE, I had told myself on Christmas 2019 that the next time he did that it WOULD be the last time I would ever allow that behavior.  I promised myself I would not allow him to come back... no matter what.

We did not fight that night.  I had been really sick and had been asleep in the bedroom.  He was watching tv on the sofa and hadn’t moved in hours.  When I woke up at about 9PM, I came out and quietly asked him if he’d fed the dog?  He answered with a “guilty” No.  Then I asked him if he’d given my dog her medication?  Again he answered with a “no”.

And then all his hell broke loose.  He went crazy.  My best guess is because in his mind, I  “caught him” in a mistake, Mr. Less than Perfect.  Even though I didn’t say anything else.  I just opened a can of dog food.  Go figure...

But, BUT... that night... I did NOT hold back my words once he started.  I had already done a bit of reading on NPD and I think I’d watched a few of Dr. Ramani’s videos.  He had smeared me to his mother just before Christmas with horrible lies; and in truth, I think I was waiting for this moment.  I was just too afraid to ask him to leave on my own.  I knew it HAD to be his idea to go.

He knows how to curse up a storm and threaten and hurl personal insults, but I know how to go for the jugular.  I can be measured and mean... and I was.  I knew he likely wouldn’t remember what I said, but he’d remember I was mean and angry.  And that’s what I wanted.  And, after he was out the door, he called and threatened to call the police because his “personal information” is on my computer.  I said “that stuff is only there because you’re completely inept, but I’ll move the stuff to a flash drive and delete it all now”. Then I said “Please have the police come here at 10 tomorrow morning, I’ll be waiting.”

And when he finally stopped calling, and I stopped shaking, I grabbed my iPad, sat on the floor and watched Dr. Ramani all night.  All night... and many nights since then.  I needed to understand why things happened the way they did over those 6.5 years.  And why certain things happened the way they did during my 19-year marriage before this thing.

I’m not young, my friend.  I’m 63.  And the hardest part, the most painful tears I’ve cried have been for the parts of myself I gave up for these relationships.  This has FORCED me to understand why.  I’m not sure I can put the why into words.  But I can feel it.  Please do this for yourself.

Be good to yourself.  Understand deeply that if you don’t value and respect yourself, no one else ever will.

Warmly,
Gems

[Giulietta]

And when he finally stopped calling, and I stopped shaking, I grabbed my iPad, sat on the floor and watched Dr. Ramani all night.  All night... and many nights since then.  I needed to understand why things happened the way they did over those 6.5 years.  And why certain things happened the way they did during my 19-year marriage before this thing.

I’ve been watching her videos all night too and I cannot thank you enough, I now understand exactly what was going on, and also why this last fight got so ugly. You see, I’m an empath, and a peacemaker. When he felt bad about himself I did everything to lift his spirits and make him feel better, which is why he wanted my company so much. I've given him a LOT of second chances, just like she describes on the videos. But in this last fight we had there was a succession of events that couldn't have resulted in anything else. Sorry guys that I keep writing about this, but it's been incredibly therapeutic to me:

1. He asked me to lend him money and I said no.

2. After throwing a tantrum, he picked up his stuff and left, but when he changed his mind and came back, probably expecting me to be overjoyed by his return (as I might have been in the past), I paid no attention to him.

3. Instead, I put on a movie and watched.

4. When he asked me if I wanted him to stay or leave, I did not ask him to stay, but replied, "just do whatever you want”. He then got angrier than ever and stormed out of the room again.

5. In the name of peace, I sent him a message apologizing for my part in the incident and offering him a white flag, thus making him feel good and powerful and like he had the upper hand, which is why he became "agreeable" again over dinner.

6. The following day, when he treated me badly again, I did not try to make peace.

7. When he drove my car dangerously, while verbally humiliating me, I told him, “stop the car right now, it’s my car and I’m going to drive”.

8. When he got out of the car and refused to get back in, I left him there and drove away.

9. When he slandered me on social media, I did not react.

10. When he sent me an email, with copy to many other people, letting me know he had filed a lawsuit against me, I decided I'd had enough, and knowing full well that this is not the "recommended" thing to do, I hit “reply to all” just the same, and wrote a huge text telling all the truth and attaching documents to prove what I was saying, thus exposing his lies and the bad things he'd done and making him look bad before his friends and family. Making him feel shame, perhaps. Of course, as predicted, that resulted in even more abuse from him, he became vicious, but God, it felt good.

11. It was all too much for him to handle, and he knew he would never win that pathetic lawsuit, so he tried to "exact revenge" by taking my money (more of it) in some way as a way to punish me, which is why he began to charge me for the more expensive gifts he had willingly given me in friendship.

12. I hired an attorney to represent me, thus showing I did not care about burning bridges anymore.

See, he just won't ever be able to deal with this. I've heard that this last couple of days he posted a picture of himself on Facebook "asking for help", with his face bleeding, and accused his family of having beat him (spanked him) and locked him in a room, particularly his mother. He actually tagged her. I very much doubt she did anything to him at all (maybe she lectured him), as he's a 30 year old man and she's half his size. Besides, she is actually supporting him against me and calling me names too, which is the irony of it all: she supported him when he spread lies about me on social media, and now he's spreading lies about her. I  will bet my money that the "bleeding" was all done by himself. If he truly needed any help, he would have called the police instead of posting pics.

Indeed he will never stop, and had I not taken these steps, he would most likely contact me again within a couple of months as if nothing had happened between us.

There, I let it all out.

Is it wrong that hearing about the bleeding pic and the fight with the mother made me happy?

 

[Cromwell]

there is no right or wrong to feelings.

It is perfectly fine (and healthy) that you are being genuine to how you feel. It will help your recovery!

well done.