Advice on "tricking" your non-diagnosed BPD partner into reading about it?

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi!
My W is un-diagnosed highly functioning BPD. She has great resentment towards psychology in general (coming from the parents) and also bad experience from her 1st marriage with her wealthy family lawyer ex threatening with fixing to send her to asylum if she challenges shared custody of their son.

Does anyone have any advice (or experience) with "tricking" your partner into reading about BPD so that she / he "examines" herself for symptoms and perhaps realise that "there is a possibility" that she could benefit from expert help?

I am sure there is not way for me to put it bluntly in front of her, but perhaps if I could pass on some info about BPD without assuming it applies to her, maybe some of it would sink in.

[olafinski]

Hi!
My W is un-diagnosed highly functioning BPD. She has great resentment towards psychology in general (coming from the parents) and also bad experience from her 1st marriage with her wealthy family lawyer ex threatening with fixing to send her to asylum if she challenges shared custody of their son.

Does anyone have any advice (or experience) with "tricking" your partner into reading about BPD so that she / he "examines" herself for symptoms and perhaps realise that "there is a possibility" that she could benefit from expert help?

I am sure there is not way for me to put it bluntly in front of her, but perhaps if I could pass on some info about BPD without assuming it applies to her, maybe some of it would sink in.

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[Cat Familiar]

Most likely she won’t think any of it applies to her, but probably will think it describes you very well.    People with BPD are prone to projection and have little capacity for self reflection.

[NonnyMouse]

Are there any movies that makes it obvious?

I was thinking that maybe there are symptoms that absolutely cannot be projected onto the spouse.

E.g.
Anger - that will be projected!
Gaslighting - that will be projected!
Everyone hates me - that could be projected

But
Feeling empty
Lacking identity
Feeling like a failure

those might not get projected. And a movie with those where the hero(ine) gets diagnosed with BPD...

[babyducks]

Here is my advice.

Please don't do this.

People with BPD have the best chance for success in treatment when good trust and rapport have been established.

My suggestion for you would be find a good therapist.    Commit to 6 to 8 visits.   Explore your situation in detail.  Get professional advice on the best way to introduce your wife to support.   Model a willingness to change and grow yourself.

[once removed]

People with BPD have the best chance for success in treatment when good trust and rapport have been established.

this couldnt be more right.

these relationships (and our equilibrium) require emotional leadership. often times, our loved ones follow our lead.

[Chosen]

But
Feeling empty
Lacking identity
Feeling like a failure

those might not get projected.

What doesn't get projected might be blamed.  The pwBPD may end up blaming everybody else (BUT themselves) for their feeling of emptiness and failure.  "Nobody appreciates me" "Everybody takes me for granted" "People overlook me because they're too self-centered".. the list goes on.  And no, they will never be "tricked" into examining themselves.

In any case, a person who doesn't really want to self-reflect (or don't want to face their faults/ weaknesses) will not do it even if it's right in front of them. 

[olafinski]

Babyducks, if I understand you correctly you suggest that I go to therapy myself and discuss my situation with a professional. I tried that, but on the first session it was clearly said that nothing can be done (asides from what I am already doing for the last 13 years) unless my wife also comes to therapy. The thing is that (which was both shocking and relieving) I was told I am already doing everything that is suggested by therapists when you have a spouse with BPD.
- don't force your own issues if there is no receptivity
- avoid ego talk and patronising
- do all you can to avoid tantrums and flips, especially details that you know bother her and trigger BPD,
- show total commitment in all situations, as with a child
- never "get hooked" in meaningless arguments
- let her "lead the way" in conversations, more listening, less talking,
- recognise that her bursts of negativity and bad language will pass quickly so don't hold grudges at all
- take responsibility for your own life and be a reliable partner
- show love and affection at all times, even when it is most ugly
- find a way to cushion your family from the consequences of her outbursts
- find time to discuss in private how your kids feels about moms behaviour and try to moderate it and direct it in a way that is best concerning their age and level of understanding ("You know that mommy has this moments, but it will quickly pass, you know")
- have also "secret signs" with your kids to make them aware that "mommy is now upset" so that they can also contribute by being kind and understanding (off course, when they are able to)
etc.

This is probably because I was introduced to therapy before, after my 1st marriage, at 25, when it took a couple of years for me to let it go and realise that my marriage failed. And just 2 session therapy changed it all.
I am a person that believes in personal growth and have been practicing a lot of "work on myself" prior to this marriage. The biggest thing starting to be able to recognise my own problems and issues clearly and realising that you can not change other people, but only be there for them. I am totally committed to my family and am willing to do anything that is possible to help my wife lead a life as normal as possible. She helped me in so many ways and made me a man I am today. I got diabetes type 1 at 35, couple of months into our relationship and she was 200% with me through the most difficult period of my life; and after that she gave me our son, the light of my life and my everything... I accept her for who she is, and nothing she says or does never changes the way I feel about her. Asides from the moments when she is out of control of her behaviour, she is the best person I have ever met. We were both raised by decent hardworking parents and respect human kindness and empathy most important traits anyone can have, and we are raising our son in the same manner.

So the thing is that I need to find a way for my wife to get familiar with BPD without the implication that it has anything to do with her, somehow (because it would trigger her self-defense). Since our son is for her, as for me, the best thing that ever happened, and since I see that she understands that "somehow" and "sometimes" her bad patterns influence him in a bad way (yes, she is aware of her bad patterns, but addresses them to PMS, character, stress, general problems in her life because of her bad decisions etc...) - I think that if she would be somehow exposed to the symptoms of BPD without perceiving that as a threat to her, that she would perhaps consider that she might have "some mild form of it", and that, to help our son in the 1st place, would be opened to get some kind of help.
This is why I said "tricking" because it must be perfectly set-up so that she is relaxed about getting that information.
Now that I am writing this, what comes to my mind is that I could mention BPD symptoms using "a friend of mine" paradigm... As a musician, I have more than a few friends with disorders and she is aware of that...
I might bring that subject up and say that a friend of mine has been diagnosed with BPD and that it was a shock, but that when she went through the symptoms it became totally clear even to her that it was a disorder all along that was keeping her from being happy and making the right choices.
Then I could basically describe all the symptoms  that "she" experienced (off course, matching my wife real symptoms):
- feeling of emptyness (my wife even says "I feel a void in my brain")
- sudden strong feelings of despair and overwhelming anxiety
- dr Jackyl mr Hyde changes in behaviour, from love to hate and back in a couple of minutes
- black and white view of the world, no shades in between, firm lines between polarities
- total lack of self-respect, no ability to objectively recognise her own strong sides, she is just no good, can not take any compliments
- strong envy towards people having something that she longs for but can not have
- mentions of suicidal thoughts ("if it wasn't for our son, I would cut my wrists long time ago")
- anti-social behaviour patterns ("people make me nervous", "I hate chit chatting", "I feel best at home")
- being afraid to feel angry ("If I let myself be angry, I think I would end up badly", "I am afraid of my anger"...)
and so on.

The good thing is that I could also probably see how she reacts when I start this conversation... I have an intuition that if she does not show interest in this story of mine, that probably means that at this point she is just not ready for this... but if she shows interest, and if she incites me to go further that would mean that there is "an opening" (I always "walk on eggs" when talking to hear, as if not to trigger mr Hyde, so I often ask "are you interested in what I am talking? should I continue?" and if she says no I just drop the subject).

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[NonnyMouse]

I have so much sympathy for your thinking. But there's just something about BPD that means they don't want to accept that diagnosis.

My wife has been diagnosed (by different therapists) with PTSD, anxiety, depression, hypervigilance, and she has accepted all of these. She has even wondered if she has ADHD or is on the autism spectrum (I don't think she is). But if I go anywhere near BPD I would be in trouble! I wish they'd change the name of the disorder.

I'm trying to reverse my wife's decision to divorce so I'm not going to be experimenting anytime soon! If you do, let us know how it goes!

One day there'll be an AI app that tells people "From your Instagram posts I estimate there to be a 95% chance of you having BPD"!

[olafinski]

NoonyMoose, I can totally relate to what you are saying! I think I also will not experiment. But there is also this aspect of... being certain that you are right about your partners mental health state... I think that a lot of us, no matter how shure we are, with all the symptoms in front of our noses, still strive to "know it for sure" from a professional. For many many reasons.
But I want to share what happened today, and it was at the same time the most wonderful and most horrifying moment of our marriage!
We had a really nice day, some nice events happened, with our little one, with my job, even at her job (which is really rare)... but
Yesterday she found out that our son's iPhone has broken front glass which I did not discuss with her because it happened the day before and my son said (and he was right about that...) that he is afraid mommy will be mad at him. I felt sorry because, as I take him out to play etc, I knew that he is really really careful with his phone, always giving it to me when he thinks it will be dangerous etc, so it was really an accident (it happened when we came home while he was putting it away...).
So I said that we will fix it asap and (landmine...) decided not to tell it to my wife because it's better to just take care of it, knowing that it will trigger her "dark side" for sure. And I thought, well it's not that much of a deal.
Unfortunately, she found out about it and was really really mad, off course jumping at once to that "You are awful, I hate you and each day I am closer and closer to divorcing you" wagon. After 13 years, I know that it's best to just take it all in without any comments other than "I am sorry, it was wrong, I don't know what was I thinking".
We went to sleep with that still going on but off course in the morning it was as if it never happened.
But today, after a really nice day, while watching TV and relaxing, she pulled it back out of the blue and I made a great mistake - instead of just saying "I am sorry, it was wrong.." I made a sound and gesture like "oh my oh my", trying to express "I am such an idiot, I did such a stupid thing" but without words. OFF COURSE that she got it the other way around - she said "How can you react like that, you are always dismissing my emotions, you take me for granted, I have been talking to you about how I feel in our marriage and you never do anything..."...
Which was all quite expected and, though terrible, something I now know how to handle. Not a big deal, it will pass.
And then something incredible happened!
We met in 2007, and got married in 2008. Our son was born in 2010.
She said "I told you this in 2007, I told you this in 2008, I told you this in 2009, in 2012... you never did anything to change it".
Wait, what, in 2007? I ALMOST started laughing from joy. This was probably the first 100% solid proof that she has some form of BPD! Yes, I felt from the very start that there is something strange going on inside her head, because she was hot and cold, Dr Jeckyll Mr Hyde kind of show, but I always had and explanation for it - she was a single mom with a 7 yo son and she must have  had developed a way of testing guys. And I was always happy to pass the test and not react from the ego.
Then we married, started living together, got a baby, life moved on but it NEVER stopped. I was always egg-walking. I learned to behave as I only could to make it more or less normal (meaning - letting her feel that she is in control and never catching the hook), but my problem was that through all that time I felt really insecure because she was basically dumping me at least once a month, with really really serious arguments that would cut as deep as they could.
But the more I was aware of her condition, the more patience I had, because I was starting to see real her beneath the BPD, and she was a really good person, without  a trace of what I hate most, and that is hypocrisy and plotting behind my back.
So with her saying it out loud, while inside a "moment", that she was telling me about what I must change EVEN BEFORE we were married - which is true - and that in spite of that not only that she married me, but also had babies with me two times (unfortunately we lost our first baby during pregnancy... this also had a lot of effect on her mental health...) - that was a sure sign that she has BPD and that the woman that has BPD likes me (or even loves me), likes being married to me, and that I need to be besides her no matter what, as she is besides me in my illness (diabetes T1, diagnosed 2 months after we started dating when I was 35).
So today is a really really good day

[babyducks]

thanks for the detailed reply olafinski.    I think I understand better what you are searching for

So the thing is that I need to find a way for my wife to get familiar with BPD without the implication that it has anything to do with her, somehow (because it would trigger her self-defense).

I am going to borrow something another member said in another thread because I believe it applies here:

If you follow Marsha Linehan's work on the subject she explains that the really difficult thing about treating BPD is that almost everything in the traditional therapeutic approach triggers them.  Her experiencing BPD traits herself helped to give insight into how it works. (sorry for the layman's terms but not a trained therapist so interpreting the way I understand).  She invented DBT as a way to treat the symptoms while not invalidating their feelings - a tightrope walk for sure and not always successful.

khibomsis explains that really well.  None of us here are trained diagnosticians.  None of us are equipped to diagnose or treat mental illness.   BPD is very close to several other disorders.     including bipolar and CPTSD.    among others.    chances are you are completely correct in what your believe your wife struggles with.   unfortunately the chance that knowing a diagnosis ~helps~ your wife or encourages her to seek treatment is at best a roll of the dice at worst,... discouraging.     there is still a strong stigma around the diagnosis of BPD.   and for people who suffer from a heightened sensitivity to shame, a 'diagnosis' can be confirmation that everyone believes they are fatally flawed and damaged beyond repair.

if you decide to pursue introducing your wife to help I wonder if you have considered introducing DBT in some fashion.    as khibomsis mentioned, it is more designed to avoid triggering negative reactions.   I can speak from personal experience that DBT was view positively from my EX (diagnosed Bipolar 1 and BPD).   She spoke of it with affection and did not find it triggering or invalidating.   

again I would caution care about how to precede.   especially since you mentioned your wife already has a deep seated distrust of all things psychology.

sorry for the late response.

'ducks

[babyducks]

I can totally relate to what you are saying! I think I also will not experiment. But there is also this aspect of... being certain that you are right about your partners mental health state... I think that a lot of us, no matter how sure we are, with all the symptoms in front of our noses, still strive to "know it for sure" from a professional.

most of us here really wanted a "for sure" diagnosis.    I suppose I was one of the lucky ones in that my then partner now Ex was diagnosed.  She was compliant with medication and dedicated to therapy.    She was open to discussing the Bipolar One stuff, but not usually with me.   She was very resistant to discussing her comorbid diagnosis and never actually said the words aloud.    very very rarely she would mention 'the other thing'.   or the 'other damage'

I think that after reading hundreds if not thousand of posts here, the need for a diagnosis is more about us.    we feel more secure when we know for sure.   I suspect that is a basic human need.    what I found to be the case for me, was that my partner was fairly fluid in how she moved about the cluster B axis.   often the traits that appeared most radically were what I considered the BPD ones,   frequently the bipolar mania was evident as even the medication did not keep it well control,... sometimes there was a drift into more NPD type stuff.    it really depended on what was going on in our lives.

  she said "How can you react like that, you are always dismissing my emotions, you take me for granted, I have been talking to you about how I feel in our marriage and you never do anything..."...
 
She said "I told you this in 2007, I told you this in 2008, I told you this in 2009, in 2012... you never did anything to change it".

I agree that this is pretty text book BPD.   pwBPD believe that their partners should care for their emotions and make them feel loved 102% of the time.  if the pwBPD doesn't feel perfectly loved and cared for... well then ... clearly its something you aren't doing right ... not that the pwBPD has difficulty feeling securely loved and cared for.

how are you doing today with all this information?

'ducks

[olafinski]

Hi ducks,
new developments... After my last post there was a very peaceful and "blissful" period of some 7-10 days. She told me that she realised some stuff about life, decisions etc and that she "found" her peace. Also, about our moving to another flat etc I told her I discussed this topic (moving to another school) with our son (10yo, just prepuberty) and that he said that he really likes his friends and that he thought that we will be in this flat till he finishes elementary with same friends, and that in high school he will anyways have new friends so we can move then
She replied "Well who said we are moving anywhere?" as if all of our lengthy conversations were total crap

Anyways, yesterday I made a mistake, she saw me "play with myself" (I thought she is asleep and I was up late) and was really upset (although in general she does not have a problem with that) and said that "she wants to end this marriage and that she will find someone to handle it".

The thing is - if you know anything about it - do BPD spouses ever file for divorce if their partner is aware of the situation and "complies" (does not catch the bite and enter fights etc)? Or do they only threat, and if it happens it is started from their partner )"I had enough of this")? Because for example my wife is never longer than 1 day in the "state" and then she calms down as if nothing happened. But off course I am always afraid of her leaving. Should I really be afraid? Because by what I have understood so far they are afraid of being abandoned, so they will provoke it, auto-destructively, "trying to left", but do THEY leave? I emphasise, I am talking about a marriage where the noBPD partner is aware of the situation and where he complies and "stitches" what was ripped so that the situation at home is more or less normal for the kids ("Mama has a short fuse but it passes soon").

By the way yesterday I talked to our son alone and I said, I need to tell you something about mom, you are not old enough to understand this, and he said "What, that mum is koo-koo?". I was shocked! It was not my intention to go there (since I also am not sure). I said, "No, it is just that there is one thing - if you strongly oppose mummy she will strongly oppose you, she can not help it. So don't ever say something like "I will not do it because I will not do it" or she will be really mad. Rather, try to explain your emotions "I will not do ti because it does not feel right" and then she will be softer (which is what I have learned all these years).
But "Mum is koo-koo"? Did anyone have experience like this, that your kid "makes his diagnosis" before you ever told him anything like that?
I must add that I have a 21 yo step-son living with us and he often openly calls his mum koo-koo so probably the little one heard it from him

[Cat Familiar]

There’s no way to reliably predict how a BPD spouse will behave regarding divorce, but they often use divorce threats in a manipulative way. Just like anyone else, they may choose to end the relationship, and often when they do, they have a backup plan (or person).

By learning the tools, you can make things less volatile. Complying with your partner’s shifting wants and demands and fixing things are not strategies we recommend. Instead, listening very mindfully to what she is saying, not being invalidating, and having good boundaries are helpful strategies.

As far as the abandonment issues, the degree to which that affects an individual varies. Some pwBPD are extremely sensitive to any hint of abandonment, while others are not.

Regarding your son noticing your wife’s dysfunctional behavior, children can be very aware of a parent’s inability to provide a sense of safety and warmth. I noticed at a very early age that my mother was not trustworthy as far as finding comfort from her.

[babyducks]

Anyways, yesterday I made a mistake,

Why do you describe this as a mistake?  You had a reasonable expectation of privacy?    You sincerely believed you were alone and she was asleep correct?    So in your eyes how was this a mistake?

[St Jude]

Olafinski,

I relate to everything you describe.  The resistance to being diagnosed, even though you know she checks every box.  I had brought BPD up to my husband years ago and he was adamantly against it saying, ‘the only thing to do about a borderline is to stay the hell away from them’.  I learned everything there is to know  about the disorder, and when he would have these brief rage episodes I would let them pass and I continued to support him in every way I could.  His rages became less and less and less.  One thing he has been constantly tormented on is ‘having no friends’ (he does have friends, he just doesn’t know how to have healthy friendships and gets unbelievably tormented trying to set things up because if someone doesn’t text back right away or call back quickly etc it sends a tsunami of paranoia through him) and this would still recur, but he was being to develop his interests and I believed things were truly getting better and had turned a corner. 

He would have brief anger episodes and broke a few mugs at different times this past year, typically when stress from work or something came up with his mother.  When he would have those brief fits he would say things like, ‘I’m moving out!’  He always calmed down very quickly and I would gently say hon please remember how much I love you and when you say things like that it really effects me, and he would say I know I love you and it would be back to loving. 

I tell that part of the story because I think it’s in line with your question about the divorce threats, I never took anything seriously and let them pass, knowing what I know about BPD and how good things are with us when he’s not raging.

About a month ago my husband had a major episodes sparked by a conversation with his mother.  He turned on me and said that I was just like her, manipulating him.  He then proceeded to drive extremely recklessly on the highway in the pouring rain and I was honestly afraid for my life.  When we got home he continued to rage at me, bringing things up from the first few months of our relationship like they were yesterday similar to what you had mentioned  (we’re together 7 years) and told me he doesn’t like to be married.  I was honestly in a state of shock like nothing in the 7 years. 

Things finally calmed after a couple of weeks.  I had removed myself twice leading up to this calmness to stay with friends due to the tension and advice of a therapist, but I called every night, told him I loved him, snd we spoke briefly on certain things that he is bothered by. 

We are now separated.  He got his own apartment and I am away in the desert for a couple of weeks trying to piece together my soul.  I supported him, made so many compromises of myself, twisted myself into so many knots to avoid these triggers and meltdowns. When his rages would dissipate I always felt so genuinely loved.  He told me I was the most precious thing in his life and I was his rock, and so I continued to pour every ounce of myself into our relationship.   And I sit here thinking, we can do all that, and end up discarded.

 For my husband, he made a new friend a few months ago(literally a few months ago) , which is 100% tied to his departure.  This friend has introduced this world to him, introducing him to all these people from their own culture and my husbands number 1 issue is trouble making friends and debilitating loneliness.  It’s a highly dysfunctional relationship, the guy facetimes my husband every single day and my husband admits several times he knows this guy is in love with him.  I could blame this person, but the truth is he is only a symptom.  My husband found a new source that is trying desperately to keep him ‘full’.  Everything I have learned about BPD had not prepared me for this. 

Protect your heart.  It is very likely if your wife doesn’t have a new source she could be just lashing.  But when the bomb went off for me it took my whole world down. 

[babyducks]

hello olafinski

After my last post there was a very peaceful and "blissful" period of some 7-10 days. She told me that she realised some stuff about life, decisions etc and that she "found" her peace.

people who are organized at the borderline level, people who process life at the borderline level have harmfully intense emotions that swing very rapidly.   Some times its described as rapid cycling.    the bottom line is that things can go from feeling  perfect and "blissful" to horrible and the end of the world in a very short period.   sometimes as much as minutes.

The thing is - if you know anything about it - do BPD spouses ever file for divorce if their partner is aware of the situation and "complies" (does not catch the bite and enter fights etc)? Or do they only threaten, and if it happens it is started from their partner )"I had enough of this")? Because for example my wife is never longer than 1 day in the "state" and then she calms down as if nothing happened.

of course they do.     one size does not fit all.     while there is a lot of common type behavior it is important to remember that no two pwBPD act completely alike.    its the unique events of each person's life that make up the content of the fears and distorted thinking.    my Ex ended our relationship.    and I would say about two weeks later she appeared surprised that she did.    pwBPD have poor executive function (self-control, organization, and flexible thinking) especially when stressed so they may attempt to end things but can't in the moment figure out how to end things.    that's why, as Cat mentioned; there is sometimes another person in the wings who 'helps' them end things.

But off course I am always afraid of her leaving. Should I really be afraid? Because by what I have understood so far they are afraid of being abandoned, so they will provoke it, auto-destructively, "trying to left", but do THEY leave? I emphasise, I am talking about a marriage where the noBPD partner is aware of the situation and where he complies and "stitches" what was ripped so that the situation at home is more or less normal for the kids ("Mama has a short fuse but it passes soon").

pwBPD attempt to manage their feelings by managing the events and people around them.    when being a relationship becomes too stressful, to upsetting, when the feelings of engulfment and enmeshment become too intense they will push away.     its not a precise process.     certainly there are people here who managed to maintain their relationship for 20 or 30 years.     there are also many who went through bitter and damaging break ups.    again its unique to the couple.

By the way yesterday I talked to our son alone and I said, I need to tell you something about mom, you are not old enough to understand this, and he said "What, that mum is koo-koo?".

hmmmmmm.     well you know this isn't good right?    this is troubling on a couple of different levels.     first - your son is 10.    its important to present information to him in an age appropriate way.    its probably better to have professional help doing this.     setting up the conversation with "I need to tell you something you aren't old enough to understand" predisposes failure.   did you correct the koo-koo reference?    calling anyone koo-koo is no good.    no matter who says it.   if the 21 year old is using koo-koo he should be reminded that talk like that is not welcomed in the house and especially not about his mother.

I was shocked! It was not my intention to go there (since I also am not sure). I said, "No, it is just that there is one thing - if you strongly oppose mummy she will strongly oppose you, she can not help it. So don't ever say something like "I will not do it because I will not do it" or she will be really mad. Rather, try to explain your emotions "I will not do ti because it does not feel right" and then she will be softer (which is what I have learned all these years).

hmmmm.    so you are essentially telling your 10 year old that its his job to manage his mother's feelings and reactions?    are you sure that's the approach you want to take?   to make the child responsible for communicating?    again I am in agreement with Cat:

Complying with your partner’s shifting wants and demands and fixing things are not strategies we recommend. Instead, listening very mindfully to what she is saying, not being invalidating, and having good boundaries are helpful strategies.

Trying to stage manage calm is different from listening mindfully.   the difference is that responsibility is shared (as much as possible) for the adults to behave appropriately. 

what do you think?

'ducks

[Rev]

Hey Olaf,

Wow - what a thread. I sense so much swirling of emotions.  So much sounds like the moving goal posts and total distrust of psychological help of my own failed marriage. Mine was a second marriage and I have no children with her. When I finally confronted her with her behaviors (long story) and insisted we go for counseling for her spending troubles, it took her a mere two hours to undo everything we had built over five years. Just giving you my context to make sure that we understand that my story is not your story - but that maybe there are similar things.

I just wanted to bring two questions to light that might bring some things to a head.

1) You have a son who is eleven or twelve, correct?  What concrete things are you doing vis-a-vis your wife and his mother (note the difference) to put his needs first and keep him emotionally safe in the midst of this?

2) What is preventing you from putting down a firm boundary, not with an ultimatum so much as drawing a firm line that says "This is as much accommodation as I am willing to offer"?  Maybe you've done this and I missed it in the thread?  But somehow, I am wondering if you are not simply spinning and avoiding a deeper confrontation, which is understandable. Certainly I need to come to a breaking point in terms of my own mental health to get there. I'm not sure where I'd be if we had children together.

Just a thought.  What do you say?

Hang in there. I'm totally in your corner.

Rev