First timer...do I reach out or not?

[Depression = 72% of members]

It's been 12 months now since BPDexw told me via lawyers that we were through. It happened when we were both WFH due to COVID. We were together for 14 years, married for 10, and have 2 kids (8 and 10). I was split black at the end of a long devaluation period where I endured most of the check box items. The rages were in particular really difficult to deal with. I used to ask her to say something nice to me because I'd never hear it otherwise.

I actually thought we were doing better but then shortly after her birthday, about 3 weeks before the lawyers told me, it was like a switch got flicked, and I was treated like a block of ice, and the abuse got really bad, including throwing things around the house, slamming doors, stomping around, on top of the usual yelling and other types of emotional abuse. Anything could be the trigger and it happened in seconds. I used to batten down the hatches and just say nothing, I suppose grey rock.

This is the third time I've been let go and ghosted by her, others before we got married, but this is the longest. The previous times she came back to me after a few months, I never reached out to her as she told me she needed space, as she has this time. She had an incredibly traumatic childhood, and left home early due to issues with her parents and was then homeless for a period of time, and there are other issues to do with that as well. 

Nothing big vow breaking happened from me but I got told, amongst other things, I was boring, wasn't ambitious enough, and I was a sad, pathetic loser, despite being in a long term highly paid competitive job. Once she got me out of the house a few weeks after the separation by threatening suicide she has ghosted me, and we only text about kids stuff. Mutual friends tell me I am the 4th guy in a row she has ditched and ghosted. Some mutual friends believe she may have been seeing someone else in the time before things went under but don't know for sure.

I realise that she is not the illness, but a person affected by something caused by issues beyond her control, and which can only be treated by therapy. I am prepared to stand by her whilst she would go through that. I was also not Captain Awesome, and despite therapists telling me my short comings (not enough validation for a BPD, messy study, being reactive and not responsive, damsel in distress issues) could be fixed in a few months, I was never given a chance and she refused to go to MC with me in the 2 years before it went under.

When it did, and before I knew exactly what she had wrong with her, I was the usual idiot husband: begged, pleaded, and tried nearly everything to get it back but to no avail.

When I see her now at kids events she will do what she can not to even have me in eyesight and I am treated as though I never existed. It's absolutely devastating going through that. In fact the whole ghosting and lack of closure really, really hurts.

I am getting counselling and therapy, which has been great for grief and trauma, and knowing what I could have done better, and I have a great network of friends around me, but I find closure hard.

But my (il)logical brain tells me if only I message her I may get her back.

I haven't but so do I or not...or should I maintain my LC? I think that she has split me permanently but the other day when I saw her for the first time in months she actually looked at me and looked like she was going to cry. I have no idea if she has moved on or not, but based on what mutual friends tell me not.

I have always honoured my vows, loved her and supported her and I feel like I would be disloyal if I let go, but I am working on these issues. My therapists (one is an expert in grief and trauma) tell me I am going good for what is expected in this scenario, even though I feel like I am still suffering a lot of grief and loss. 

Sorry if there isn't enough info here, this is my first post after a few months of reading nearly everything on here to make sense of what the heck just happened.

TL:DR version: So do I reach out in the hope of trying to work things out or do I just keep on battling the grief, loss and sadness?

[BrokenHubby]

It's been 12 months now since BPDexw told me via lawyers that we were through. It happened when we were both WFH due to COVID. We were together for 14 years, married for 10, and have 2 kids (8 and 10). I was split black at the end of a long devaluation period where I endured most of the check box items. The rages were in particular really difficult to deal with. I used to ask her to say something nice to me because I'd never hear it otherwise.

I actually thought we were doing better but then shortly after her birthday, about 3 weeks before the lawyers told me, it was like a switch got flicked, and I was treated like a block of ice, and the abuse got really bad, including throwing things around the house, slamming doors, stomping around, on top of the usual yelling and other types of emotional abuse. Anything could be the trigger and it happened in seconds. I used to batten down the hatches and just say nothing, I suppose grey rock.

This is the third time I've been let go and ghosted by her, others before we got married, but this is the longest. The previous times she came back to me after a few months, I never reached out to her as she told me she needed space, as she has this time. She had an incredibly traumatic childhood, and left home early due to issues with her parents and was then homeless for a period of time, and there are other issues to do with that as well. 

Nothing big vow breaking happened from me but I got told, amongst other things, I was boring, wasn't ambitious enough, and I was a sad, pathetic loser, despite being in a long term highly paid competitive job. Once she got me out of the house a few weeks after the separation by threatening suicide she has ghosted me, and we only text about kids stuff. Mutual friends tell me I am the 4th guy in a row she has ditched and ghosted. Some mutual friends believe she may have been seeing someone else in the time before things went under but don't know for sure.

I realise that she is not the illness, but a person affected by something caused by issues beyond her control, and which can only be treated by therapy. I am prepared to stand by her whilst she would go through that. I was also not Captain Awesome, and despite therapists telling me my short comings (not enough validation for a BPD, messy study, being reactive and not responsive, damsel in distress issues) could be fixed in a few months, I was never given a chance and she refused to go to MC with me in the 2 years before it went under.

When it did, and before I knew exactly what she had wrong with her, I was the usual idiot husband: begged, pleaded, and tried nearly everything to get it back but to no avail.

When I see her now at kids events she will do what she can not to even have me in eyesight and I am treated as though I never existed. It's absolutely devastating going through that. In fact the whole ghosting and lack of closure really, really hurts.

I am getting counselling and therapy, which has been great for grief and trauma, and knowing what I could have done better, and I have a great network of friends around me, but I find closure hard.

But my (il)logical brain tells me if only I message her I may get her back.

I haven't but so do I or not...or should I maintain my LC? I think that she has split me permanently but the other day when I saw her for the first time in months she actually looked at me and looked like she was going to cry. I have no idea if she has moved on or not, but based on what mutual friends tell me not.

I have always honoured my vows, loved her and supported her and I feel like I would be disloyal if I let go, but I am working on these issues. My therapists (one is an expert in grief and trauma) tell me I am going good for what is expected in this scenario, even though I feel like I am still suffering a lot of grief and loss. 

Sorry if there isn't enough info here, this is my first post after a few months of reading nearly everything on here to make sense of what the heck just happened.

TL:DR version: So do I reach out in the hope of trying to work things out or do I just keep on battling the grief, loss and sadness?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[babyducks]

welcome brokenhubby and thank you for your first post.

You are always going to have some contact with her because of the children.    and I would suggest you consider the children first in all this.     how are they dealing with the separation and divorce issues?

from what you describe there has been a lot of emotional damage done during the course of your marriage.   its good that you are working so hard with your therapist.    you probably have a decent idea of what its going to take to heal the trauma.     coming back and making a viable marriage after the roller coaster you have been on is going to take a lot of work and effort.   ideally that should be done by both partners but from what you are saying it doesn't sound like your wife is able to commit to that?

I would suggest you start small,... with the help of your therapist consider different approaches to how you share time together at the children's events.    what would be reasonable,.. what is actually possible...  how would this impact the family unit...

and consider if you do reach out to her... how would this time be different?   how would you contribute to making this time different?

'ducks

[BrokenHubby]

The kids are going okay but just as I don't have closure neither do they, and for them it was more sudden than what it felt like for me. Sadly as there is no court order in place yet, and as I moved out she has them for the majority of the time and I need to ask her for when I can see them, despite me now having a nice place they love spending time with me at. The kids want much more time with me, but the ex has refused all attempts at mediation. Control is everything to her. The care time will be adjusted when the court hears things but for now it's been very difficult for them as there is also no certainty on when they may see me.

I have been told by my T's that I need to be the "normal" parent as that helps kids adjust whilst providing stability and safety that they need. The kids are my first concern, I will heal eventually but it isn't good to hear them ask why she is acting strange. Kids definitely can be the biggest losers in separations.

I think that idea about time at kids events sounds good. Both of my T's tell me that they think she'll reach out in the next 6 months, which would be good, but I need to keep fixing and healing, it really is such a long process and so many tears. Making things different would require me to apply and be more conscious than ever of triggers and how my behaviour could be seen by her.

For example learning to validate better, I thought I was okay at this but after reading the topics on this site, and in the context of her BPD, no. Being more responsive is something I am working hard on, and doing a better job at identifying stressors for her, which probably seemed like nothing to me but I now realise when you have BPD can be a massive issue, see, typical male stupidity! If only I had known all this and about BPD earlier!

I am worried though about how much she seems to enjoy hurting people, which is me now but has been others before, who have been by her as doing wrong to her. Possibly ASPD traits, I don't want to overthink it though.

Being a NT with a person with BPD is very doable I believe, it's just knowing how you need to see things in that perspective to make adjustments to how you relate and communicate with the SO.

Any advice on what to say if I do reach out?

[Ranch1]

I really appreciate your views on someone with BPD. My daughter has BPD and it can really wear you down when they are having a bad time and I have just been in therapy a month to help me on reacting to her. I finally reached a point I had to set boundaries for my own mental health and my T is helping me stay strong with those. My daughter seems to appreciate the boundaries and the fact I care enough to learn about BPD. I have been very upset with the information I read on the poor victim and how they should leave the BPD. In my case her husband would argue with a brick wall and he upsets her so much worse and things spiral out of control. I have told him so many times to keep his mouth shut and leave her alone. I respect your working on how to react to de-escalate things. I would like to read more along that line. I hope your wife comes to realize how fortunate she is that you have gone to therapy to learn more. Good luck.

[BrokenHubby]

Thank you babyducks and Ranch1 for your help.

Ranch1: I understand what you mean about boundary setting, it is an absolute must. Sadly I kept on allowing mine to be changed as a way of mitigating the anger but it never worked. T has helped me understand why, as I can see it has with you. Good to read about the progress with your daughter, I really do hope it keeps on getting better and better, and maybe her H can be convinced to go to therapy as well to understand how to be a better man and learn how to cope with someone with this so they can have a better relationship together.

I hope to start again with the ex but that decision is out of my hands, all I can do is work on me, learn about this illness, and pray for a second chance. I want to reach out but I fear it is getting too late for that and all that I have received since things went bad is blame, anger and more abuse as a way of seeking control. I know more now about myself, what I needed to get right and work on (JADE and FOG, etc.), so even though if we did get back together it would be a lot of work, I think it would be worth it, especially if she eventually went to therapy and back on her meds.

Just hate the thought of letting go...talk about trauma bond!

[once removed]

Nothing big vow breaking happened from me but I got told, amongst other things, I was boring, wasn't ambitious enough, and I was a sad, pathetic loser, despite being in a long term highly paid competitive job.

listening with empathy is important.

hearing a partner who is prone to speaking in extremes is important, even when we dont agree.

generally, though, someone lashing out like that, even to the extent that its real for them in the moment, is speaking more from a place of hurt and insecurity than speaking literally.

that doesnt necessarily help you reconcile the relationship, if that is possible, but it may be helpful in better understanding her, and in terms of how you feel about yourself.

a lot of this...what you describe in terms of her lashing out at you, and severing relationships with others, speak to how she is coping with life, in general. there is not a great deal you can do about that, beyond being a strong individual.

if you were to message her, what would you want to say?

[BrokenHubby]

Thank you onceremoved for your reply, appreciate your thoughts, and agree all round.

I would like her to see that I understand that she is hurt, and that she has some valid fears and insecurities but that I love her and would be willing to work with her on resolving these issues.

I can't mention therapy for her at this stage as she has told she has nothing to change about herself.

I'm not sure how exactly how to say this in a way that doesn't make me seem desperate and clingy, and without coming across as harassing either.

I understand, like you mention, that her feelings right now reflect that of a very hurt and insecure person, and I have had my role in that, so not sure if this is possible to save. It feels like everything is hanging by a very thin thread and nothing I have said or done so far has changed that.

I have given her a lot of space, and some friends say I need to continue to do that, and to let her be. But I worry to that this is the final cycle for me, and I have been split black permanently, and that maybe I have waited too long before reaching out. I suppose I just want to know that I did everything possible to stop this from going under. 

You can add very confused to broken so if you have any advice at all on how or if I should reach out I am all eyes/ears. 

[babyducks]

You can add very confused to broken so if you have any advice at all on how or if I should reach out I am all eyes/ears. 

I would suggest any reaching out has to happen organically.    Yeah, organically.  I know its a funny word.     Meaning it should occur naturally, normally without being manufactured, orchestrated, or manipulated.   without big dramatic announcements or gestures.     within the part of ordinary exchange.     

[BrokenHubby]

Thanks babyducks, and agree. Unless it's meant to be, it isn't meant to be. And there is still the big question if she'll be willing to go to therapy.

[babyducks]

What's your expectations around therapy?

[BrokenHubby]

That she be open to going, and I'm happy to support her if she did or wanted me to go with her.