Advice on Family Counseling/Mediation?

[CatsandCarryons]

Has anyone had success with family counseling/mediation?

I believe my mom has undiagnosed BPD and has cut me and my siblings off as well as the rest of her friends and family with  the exception of my dad (who exhibits codependent behavior) and my grandpa (her father, who she keeps at arms length). I’m pregnant with my first child and now she seems to want to rekindle the relationship but only with the help of a family counselor/mediator. I’ve been through decades of ‘family meetings’ where we were sat down and told why we’re wrong and why we should make concessions for mom, and I dont have much hope that anything will be different this time around. My husband thinks I should give it a try if only for our child’s sake.

Has anyone had success with family counseling? Have you seen any improvements in the relationship? Is your pwBPD aware of their BPD? My mom is very much not willing to admit to anything which makes me wonder if this will be a waste of time.

[pursuingJoy]

Hi CatsandCarryons, welcome 

In my limited experience, the results of family counseling really depend on how people are coming in to the space. I've heard it said that family therapy relies on the power of the family to heal itself. The counselor is able to highlight better ways of communicating. The fact that a third party is present sometimes means people are more likely to stay calm, less likely to rage. Family counselors are committed to the whole, not any one individual or perspective.

If people go into it combatively with the inaccurate expectation that their very 'right' side will be defended by the counselor, they will likely leave feeling invalidated. In my case, two family members became angry and combative with the counselor when he didn't defend them. One person couldn't stop talking, another stormed out. It didn't result in an improved relationship, but it did give me clarity I didn't have before, clarity I didn't know I needed. I'm grateful for that.

Sounds like your H would go into it hopeful things will work out, you are skeptical at best, and mom's desire is to be part of your child's life combined with a likely unwillingness to accept her role in estrangement. Does that sound accurate? Why would you consider it?

[Naughty Nibbler]

Welcome CatsandCarryons:

I’m pregnant with my first child and now she seems to want to rekindle the relationship but only with the help of a family counselor/mediator.

My mom is very much not willing to admit to anything which makes me wonder if this will be a waste of time.

Just one opinion.  A family therapist should NOT be (or have been) any other family member's therapist/counselor.  The only ethical/rational way for fair and impartial counseling is with someone who has not had individual counseling history with any other family member. If this counselor was used in the past, and their approach was to say everyone, other than mom, needs to change, then why would you agree to participate with them leading the sessions?

If your mom can't admit to any issues on her part, with a desire to change, then there won't be any change on her part. For any desirable outcome for you, you need a fresh therapist (without any preconceived opinions), who will initially meet with each person separately (to gain their individual perspective), then proceed with group sessions.

The more family members in a counseling session, the less productive it will likely be. What commonly happens is the person without BPD or BPD traits is the one who goes to therapy.  When I asked an individual therapist about the idea of getting my sister into joint sessions, I was told that most of the time it's not successful.  Although my therapist didn't do joint counseling, someone in her office did.  I was told that usually one person get's upset and then stops going. I'm guessing that your mom would not be able to accept the truth from a new impartial therapist.

You indicate your mom is the one who went no contact with various family and friends.  What are some of her worst behavioral issues?

You might consider finding your own therapist and have a few sessions to discuss your specific issues with your mom.  Perhaps discuss setting & enforcing boundaries (Your personal boundaries that you are responsible to enforce & she generally won't want to agree with). 

One possibility is limited contact (versus no contact). You decide what's best for you and your baby. You can decide when to extend an invitation to your mom.  You decide whether mom will ever babysit or be alone with the baby.  You can decide the possible level, duration and frequency of possible interactions with your mom.  She can decide to accept the invitation or decline.

[CatsandCarryons]

Sounds like your H would go into it hopeful things will work out, you are skeptical at best, and mom's desire is to be part of your child's life combined with a likely unwillingness to accept her role in estrangement. Does that sound accurate? Why would you consider it?

I think that sums it up. My husband is new to the world of BPD and doesn’t understand how deeply it is ingrained, which is why I think he’s so optimistic. However, he believes my parents love me deeply and desperately want a relationship (although on their terms). This was the argument that had me questioning myself. Maybe I’m as bad of a daughter as my mom tells me I am for not being open to the relationship, they just want me to be part of their lives. Nevermind the dysfunction and erratic behavior, threats of suicide, etc etc, they’re still my parents and they love me.

I struggle with boundaries. I always get sucked back in and then I always regret it. But if your experience was valuable even if you didn’t get what you expected, maybe it’s worth a try. I know better than to hope the counselor will tell her what her issues are straight up. If anything I expect to have blame heaped on me and I’m not sure I’m ready for that.

[CatsandCarryons]

For any desirable outcome for you, you need a fresh therapist (without any preconceived opinions), who will initially meet with each person separately (to gain their individual perspective), then proceed with group sessions.

That’s what I’m hoping for. If they insist on picking the therapist, I’m out. It’s encouraging that they meet with you separately before they do the group though. I’d want to prime the counselor with some family history and symptoms I’ve observed so theres less of a chance I’m attacked.

 
You indicate your mom is the one who went no contact with various family and friends.  What are some of her worst behavioral issues?

She’s pretty textbook, she meets all but one of the DSM criteria. Highly manipulative and extremely black and white. She has the ability to make you think you’re the crazy one. She’s convinced every therapist she’s gone to that it was her parents or the friend or whoever else thats the crazy one, she’s just a poor victim. She’s also been suicidal during a few episodes to the point where my teenage brother at the time was the one who found the loaded gun in her room.

The limited contact thought is nice, but I’m not sure I’m healthy and strong  enough at this point in my life to enforce it. They live  in another state so visits are tough to keep to a reasonable timeframe. In a perfect world I think that would be a great solution. Maybe something to strive for in the coming decades.

I’ve also been to a counselor for myself. I was going regularly for a while and have since stopped because I only really need to talk during flare ups. But having a touch base is probably needed at this point. Thank you for the recommendation.

[pursuingJoy]

However, he believes my parents love me deeply and desperately want a relationship (although on their terms). This was the argument that had me questioning myself.

I wondered what effect your husband's optimism was having. My MIL has BPD too and like your husband, I started out naively optimistic. It took me 7 years to really understand what was happening.

Maybe I’m as bad of a daughter as my mom tells me I am for not being open to the relationship

You know you're not, and we know you're not, but we're all familiar with this line of questioning. In my case, the term 'honor your parents' has been distorted and weaponized to guilt and shame kids into caring for parents and be subjected to maltreatment. Just because you kept a kid alive does not mean the kid owes you later in life. They didn't choose to bring themselves into this world. You provided food and shelter and rides to soccer? Those are bare minimums. Kids don't owe parents for that. Parents should be asking, "Do I make my child feel loved and respected? Am I the kind of person they'll want and choose to spend time with, even when they're adults?"

Everyone deserves respect, and that includes young children and aging parents. Respect does NOT necessarily mean access or love or time or communication. Sometimes, respect means boundaries.

But if your experience was valuable even if you didn’t get what you expected, maybe it’s worth a try.

Unfortunately, your husband has created a bit of an unhealthy triangle by 'coming to the rescue.' Check out our link on the karpman triangle and read up on how to get off the triangle: https://bpdfamily.com/content/karpman-drama-triangle

Boundaries work when you hold them. Maybe this is a moment that you hold the line and say no, trusting that you've seen what you need to see, and know what you need to know, regardless of the doubt your H casts into the mix. There's a time for that.

My counselor told me once that the more I dig in and say no, the more I'm perceived as the bad guy, the persecutor. Could accepting the invitation to go to counseling an act of courage and fearless self-reliance, fully knowing your worth, trusting that you know what is happening, and that the only thing counseling will change is your husband's mind when your mother 'shows up?' It's possible.

The good news is that you have options, even beyond these two above. No need to feel forced into any decision you make. You can say no, you can say yes, or you can offer alternatives between them. Love that you won't let them choose the counselor, and that you're seeing one yourself. Great moves.

Keep us posted.

[IzWest]

This is just one person's opinion, but I would strongly advise AGAINST ever walking into a therapist's room with a pwBPD. Last year, I made the mistake of doing it with my uBPD brother, and it was one of the more traumatic experiences of my life. We had been arguing over a work-related matter for a couple of months (don't even ask about the working thing...if I only knew then), which I think really boiled down to my having a competing solo project I was working on as well as living with a girlfriend.

Anyway, he kept saying we needed to see a therapist since we had been arguing in an escalating fashion. So I finally agreed. We show up on the zoom, and for the entire first hour he proceeds to utterly gut me with a stiletto in the calmest and most assured tone imaginable. Every mistake I had ever made, every moment of weakness I had ever confessed to him, was suddenly weaponized and contorted to make me sound like a completely unhinged madman (including lots of complete rewrites of what had actually, factually happened). What I only realized later, when I came also to realize he's BPD, is that this was all a strategy to a) tear me down to his level b) triangulate and spin therapist to make me yield to bend every whim and c) keep me in an ongoing, highly emotional relationship with him in a "safe space" where he could do anything he wanted.

The issue with a therapist or mediator is that they can't really take sides on a macro level. They can call out some small things in real time, but to be effective at their job, they have to maintain the neutral position that everyone is at fault or shares culpability. So if I pushed back against lies or tried to say "But you did this," the therapist would only say stuff like "You've both proven you can lob grenades." (Though I'd argue his were more like thermonuclear warheads.)

We went to several more sessions that went fine, maybe helped temporarily (though I spent the entire next session just rebutting all the bile he said about me...haha, just learned about JADE and wow, that's pretty much the story of my life). Several sessions later, however, after the tension had started ratcheting up again over insanely sundry things like miscommunications with assistants scheduling meetings, we went into a session where he ranted about me for the first 45 minutes. This time about the scheduling matters, which I thought were so patently absurd that I could then see clearly that it really truly had nothing to do with me. By the end of the session, I just said, "Guys, sorry, I'm never doing this again. I didn't do anything to deserve this kind of treatment, and I refuse to be subjected to it."

God it felt good to take some control, even though they were both shocked. Not surprisingly, my uBPD called minutes later crying and apologizing and all the usual BS about he doesn't know why he does these things. (I call it BS because as self-aware as he is in that moment, of course he'll always go back to doing it again.)

Anyhow, my point is that the pBPD is likely going to use the therapist the same way they use anyone else in one of these triangles. And then after the fact it'll just become another talking point in their arsenal to bludgeon you into submission or agreeing with them. But don't you remember, the therapist said...I've heard that no less than 200 times since then, like a broken record player. Don't make the same mistake.

(Wow, I'm still really bitter about this! Still learning to deal with the situation, and still stuck in the work one and desperately trying to get out of it. One day...)