Divorce filed...now what?

[I Am Redeemed]

With the help of legal services and inside information from MIL, I have finally located my ex and filed for divorce.

He should be served some time next week, at which time he has 30 days to respond.

If he doesn't, I will be awarded the divorce by default 90 days from the filing date.

I don't expect him to respond. He will either have to hire an attorney or represent himself and I don't anticipate either of those happening...though it's possible.

I have been NC for nearly 3 years following the final instance of domestic violence which included a sexual assault on me. He has not attempted contact in months, maybe over a year.

The divorce proposed parenting plan gives me 365 days a year and him 0. We could go for supervised visitation, but currently the courts here do not provide supervisors. There would have to be a 3rd party service used at his expense. Certainly, he could contest this, but it would cost money he does not have.

However, there is language in the divorce papers that would allow him to contact my son by phone, show up at his school for extracurricular activities or to have lunch with him, etc.

This means that there is a possibility that I will have to have some form of contact with my abuser because he still has the right to contact his child...even if he does it one time and not again for months.

Not sure how this will affect my child, or me. My ex is a dangerous person. But, my lawyer said I would have to prove that he is currently a threat to have grounds for protection from him.

He is notorious for using small windows of opportunity to manipulate, and then harass, and finally abuse.

Anyone here who has to have contact with someone who has been dangerously abusive to you because the divorce stipulates that you must?

There's always the possibility that he will not try to contact me because he is already in another relationship with another baby on the way. He makes no attempt to contact his other children, either.

But...he might. And then what?

[ForeverDad]

He is notorious for using small windows of opportunity to manipulate, and then harass, and finally abuse.

Anyone here who has to have contact with someone who has been dangerously abusive to you because the divorce stipulates that you must?

That is a pattern, he could wedge in some contact and then push more and more.  But now you're aware of that risk and have set up a strong parental authority in the proposed custody and parenting terms.  You just have to be careful to follow the order, once you have it.  If you have to handle an exchange, could you require them to be in public places or at sheriff's offices or similar neutral safe places?

Also, does he have to provide notice beforehand (24 hours or more) when he wants to contact his child?  Maybe phone calls in years to come may not be that much of a concern but you should avoid any "secret" visitations.

Are you to be the custodial parent or is it described as shared but with you having Decision Making or Tie Breaker status?

[I Am Redeemed]

I am the sole custodial parent. I make all decisions. He is awarded no visitation.

The lawyer said "visitation" and "contact" are two different things. I don't have to send my child to a visit, but I have to let him talk to him on the phone. He can access school records. He can come to his school, or a ball game, or a Christmas party.

There is nothing saying he has to provide notice before contact.

[I Am Redeemed]

I suppose this will be something to work on in therapy. I'm already being treated for PTSD and the fear I have is largely because I am triggered by him. I'm searching for a play therapist for my son, so perhaps this will help navigate any issues with his father if contact does happen.

[stolencrumbs]

Hey Redeemed. I'm happy that you've been able to file. I don't have any advice on what happens when it is actually final, but I definitely get the worry.

You might have already been advised about this, and I'm sure it differs by state, but the default process could be longer than 90 days. My stbx waited a long time to respond and threatened to just let it go to default, though she ultimately didn't. In my state, after the 90 days, there's a first default hearing. If the other party just shows up to that and says yes, I contest the divorce, the clock starts over. So it's possible that with pretty minimal effort, he could delay this for another 30-90 days.

If it does go to default, there will be a hearing on that. Hopefully he doesn't show. In my state, you are not stuck with the initial proposal. It can be altered by the judge then, and I'd think that not showing up to the hearing would be decent grounds to change those terms of "contact."

Just some things to think about. Hoping for the best and easiest path for you.

[I Am Redeemed]

Thanks, stolencrumbs.

My lawyer said nothing about that! I didn't think about him showing up at the 90 day deadline and saying he contests it.

She did say that no judge would take out the stipulation for allowing contact (without proof of current actions that are grounds for a protection order) because his parental rights are not being terminated.

I'm in Tennessee. This state seems to treat every divorce as if it's just two parties who no longer wish to cohabitate. I even got pushback on getting the initial protection order nearly 4 years ago...their reasoning was that he was in jail (as if he would be there forever...he did nine months).

He is on supervised visitation per CPS with three previous kids. But, he cancelled visitation and failed to follow up so he hasn't seen them in over 3 years, nor made attempts to do so. He lost all rights to his first son after going to prison for a brutal assault on his first wife 20 years ago. His second son, he gave up for adoption over a decade ago.

None of this is being taken into account regarding contact with my son.

The last visitation I attempted to allow resulted in manipulating and emotional abuse of my child, and culminated in an assault on me, so I am extremely hesitant to just let him start talking to my kid again.

I'm hoping he just lets it go and moves forward with his new relationship and child. Every time a relationship ends badly and he loses contact with his kids, he moves on to a new relationship, plays pitiful victim, and has more children that get caught up in his abusive behavior towards the mother.

[stolencrumbs]

Thanks, stolencrumbs.

My lawyer said nothing about that! I didn't think about him showing up at the 90 day deadline and saying he contests it.

She did say that no judge would take out the stipulation for allowing contact (without proof of current actions that are grounds for a protection order) because his parental rights are not being terminated.

I'm in Tennessee. This state seems to treat every divorce as if it's just two parties who no longer wish to cohabitate. I even got pushback on getting the initial protection order nearly 4 years ago...their reasoning was that he was in jail (as if he would be there forever...he did nine months).

He is on supervised visitation per CPS with three previous kids. But, he cancelled visitation and failed to follow up so he hasn't seen them in over 3 years, nor made attempts to do so. He lost all rights to his first son after going to prison for a brutal assault on his first wife 20 years ago. His second son, he gave up for adoption over a decade ago.

None of this is being taken into account regarding contact with my son.

The last visitation I attempted to allow resulted in manipulating and emotional abuse of my child, and culminated in an assault on me, so I am extremely hesitant to just let him start talking to my kid again.

I'm hoping he just lets it go and moves forward with his new relationship and child. Every time a relationship ends badly and he loses contact with his kids, he moves on to a new relationship, plays pitiful victim, and has more children that get caught up in his abusive behavior towards the mother.

I'm also in TN. I didn't have the 90 day waiting period because there were no kids involved. But my understanding from my lawyer was that a default divorce could take a long time and still give her plenty of opportunities to essentially start the clock over. I know there are two hearings--the default hearing and the final hearing. So however quickly those are scheduled partly determines the timeline. Then he could show up at either or get a L at any point before the final hearing, contest the divorce, and send it back to square one. It doesnt sound to me like he is likely to do that, and I hope for everyone's sake (except the next woman and child) that he just stays away.

[I Am Redeemed]

That's my hope, too, but there's always the chance that he will contest the no visitation (and the proposed increase in child support). Even if he doesn't, he will now have a court order that opens the door for contact.

The last visits he had with my son, then 2, he would break down and cry and tell him he wanted him to stay but mommy wouldn't let him...not excited for the possibility of my son being exposed to that kind of emotional abuse again.

The NC is what has kept me feeling safe these past few years. Now, that boundary is being removed and that is a little bit overwhelming.

[kells76]

Hey IAR, sorry, it's going to be a lot of questions...

there is language in the divorce papers that would allow him to contact my son by phone, show up at his school for extracurricular activities or to have lunch with him, etc.

Is that "boilerplate" language? I'm assuming you didn't choose it. Are we talking "defined rights of a parent regardless of custodial status" type stuff, where you can't change that language in the divorce papers because it's definitional?

Is he considered the "noncustodial parent"?

He has not attempted contact in months, maybe over a year.

Contact with you? Or your son? or both/either?

Does he currently pay you CS?

What are the parameters in your state for a TPR? Can you and your L keep tabs on his involvement (or noninvolvement) and right when he ticks all the boxes (i.e. no CS paid for 6 months, no contact attempted with child for 6 months, whatever the criteria are), go for a TPR?

Another thought:

there is language in the divorce papers that would allow him to contact my son by phone, show up at his school for extracurricular activities or to have lunch with him, etc.

Your son is... 3 right now, if I'm remembering correctly? Do you have an idea of the schools S3 would be going to for preschool/kinder/etc? I imagine the schools have been through these situations before. What would it be like to contact them and ask how they've handled this? I could picture middle schools/high schools "having to" let parents come eat lunch with their kids, yet it strikes me as disruptive for a preschool to allow that... I wonder if the gatekeeping/background check/other requirements for an adult coming on to school property could deter your son's dad from that route.

Extracurriculars would be a different story. It makes a lot of sense that you would be dreading that potential contact with your son's dad at those times. I still remember that sense of just trying to survive the hours and hours at games/competitions, having to listen to the kids' mom and stepdad or see them across the gym or whatever. It's draining and anxiety-inducing. Maybe your son will be into chess instead?

Also, I feel like there is legal precedent that even during the times a child is at school, there is still a designated "parent in charge". I.e., it is still SOMEONE'S parenting time even when a child is at school. Can your L dig into those cases? Does that give you some more footing in terms of managing contact at school events/on school property, down the road?

I'm thinking now... if the papers aren't final yet... can you build in some clauses like "even though S3's dad retains boilerplate noncustodial parent rights, as enumerated in State law, NCP rights are between parent and child only, and do not extend to contact between the NCP and CP". I'm not exactly sure how to phrase it, but there has to be some way to tightly define that OK, sure, he as NCP has certain rights in your state, and those are strictly limited to his parental role, and not former-spousal role. NCP rights don't say anything about how the two parents interact, or that they have to interact, or that it's required that they do.

For example, in our state, the NCP has the right to "inspect and receive" school, medical, mental health, etc, records. It DOESN'T say that the NCP has the right to make the CP provide those records. The NCP has to figure it out on their own with the school, doctor, etc. The fact that S3's dad may be NCP doesn't rebuild some kind of legally obligating relationship between you and him. At least on paper. I get that in real life boundaries get bulldozed. But maybe adding some more stuff to the divorce paperwork would give you a bit more legal protection.

...

there's always the chance that he will contest the no visitation (and the proposed increase in child support)

This seems like leverage to me. OK, we always talk about how "you need to keep a firewall between money and visitation"... but... if he's going to balk at an increase in CS...

How can you use that to your advantage? What could you get from him in exchange for no increase in CS? Can you and your L phrase things in a way where he feels like he's winning if he walks away "screwing you over" by not paying more... but really... you have gotten an agreement to stronger boundaries and limitations in exchange?

...

he hasn't seen them in over 3 years, nor made attempts to do so. He lost all rights to his first son after going to prison for a brutal assault on his first wife 20 years ago. His second son, he gave up for adoption over a decade ago.

I'm circling back to TPR. It just seems like a good side thing to have going, to have your L be super aware of the criteria and for you guys to be keeping a calendar with stuff like "date of last CS check" and "date of last phone call". He has a track record of choices and behaviors that have sent him down that road. If he sticks with the pattern with S3, then perhaps even before S3 gets into elementary school (where there are those openings for S3's dad to try to get access), a TPR could go through.

Worth documenting and tracking, seems like.

[GaGrl]

Will the order of protection you have for yourself stay in place after the divorce? I would hope so.

[worriedStepmom]

Can the language specify that all contact has to be supervised?

Just post-divorce, one of my friends's abusive FIL went to the school to have lunch with the kids and convinced the receptionist to let them eat alone in an empty classroom instead of in the cafeteria.  He severely emotionally abused the kids (forced them to make a video saying they hated their mom, etc) during that time.  If he is allowed contact, but it must be in a group setting, that might help mitigate the chance that this type of thing could happen to your son.

[kells76]

Can the language specify that all contact has to be supervised?

This seems like a good loophole to close. It seems surprising to me that you could be custodial parent with 365 days of parenting time, 0 days of parenting time for S3's dad, any contact is at your discretion and would require a supervisor paid by him, and yet... somehow... magically, if it's at the school... he could just waltz in and see S3?

Definitely two paths to follow up on: one, talking with the local school ahead of time to see how they've done these situations before, and two, see what your L can get in there for language where there's not an exception for "on school property".

[ForeverDad]

Can the language specify that all contact has to be supervised?

Just post-divorce, one of my friends' abusive FIL went to the school to have lunch with the kids and convinced the receptionist to let them eat alone in an empty classroom instead of in the cafeteria.

Or what if a visit ended with slick dad wanting to leave with the kid?  "Anything beyond what is expressly stated in this order requires written permission from mother."

[I Am Redeemed]

Hey IAR, sorry, it's going to be a lot of questions...

Is that "boilerplate" language? I'm assuming you didn't choose it. Are we talking "defined rights of a parent regardless of custodial status" type stuff, where you can't change that language in the divorce papers because it's definitional?

Is he considered the "noncustodial parent"?

Contact with you? Or your son? or both/either?

Does he currently pay you CS?

What are the parameters in your state for a TPR? Can you and your L keep tabs on his involvement (or noninvolvement) and right when he ticks all the boxes (i.e. no CS paid for 6 months, no contact attempted with child for 6 months, whatever the criteria are), go for a TPR?

Another thought:

Your son is... 3 right now, if I'm remembering correctly? Do you have an idea of the schools S3 would be going to for preschool/kinder/etc? I imagine the schools have been through these situations before. What would it be like to contact them and ask how they've handled this? I could picture middle schools/high schools "having to" let parents come eat lunch with their kids, yet it strikes me as disruptive for a preschool to allow that... I wonder if the gatekeeping/background check/other requirements for an adult coming on to school property could deter your son's dad from that route.

Extracurriculars would be a different story. It makes a lot of sense that you would be dreading that potential contact with your son's dad at those times. I still remember that sense of just trying to survive the hours and hours at games/competitions, having to listen to the kids' mom and stepdad or see them across the gym or whatever. It's draining and anxiety-inducing. Maybe your son will be into chess instead?

Also, I feel like there is legal precedent that even during the times a child is at school, there is still a designated "parent in charge". I.e., it is still SOMEONE'S parenting time even when a child is at school. Can your L dig into those cases? Does that give you some more footing in terms of managing contact at school events/on school property, down the road?

I'm thinking now... if the papers aren't final yet... can you build in some clauses like "even though S3's dad retains boilerplate noncustodial parent rights, as enumerated in State law, NCP rights are between parent and child only, and do not extend to contact between the NCP and CP". I'm not exactly sure how to phrase it, but there has to be some way to tightly define that OK, sure, he as NCP has certain rights in your state, and those are strictly limited to his parental role, and not former-spousal role. NCP rights don't say anything about how the two parents interact, or that they have to interact, or that it's required that they do.

For example, in our state, the NCP has the right to "inspect and receive" school, medical, mental health, etc, records. It DOESN'T say that the NCP has the right to make the CP provide those records. The NCP has to figure it out on their own with the school, doctor, etc. The fact that S3's dad may be NCP doesn't rebuild some kind of legally obligating relationship between you and him. At least on paper. I get that in real life boundaries get bulldozed. But maybe adding some more stuff to the divorce paperwork would give you a bit more legal protection.

...

This seems like leverage to me. OK, we always talk about how "you need to keep a firewall between money and visitation"... but... if he's going to balk at an increase in CS...

How can you use that to your advantage? What could you get from him in exchange for no increase in CS? Can you and your L phrase things in a way where he feels like he's winning if he walks away "screwing you over" by not paying more... but really... you have gotten an agreement to stronger boundaries and limitations in exchange?

...

I'm circling back to TPR. It just seems like a good side thing to have going, to have your L be super aware of the criteria and for you guys to be keeping a calendar with stuff like "date of last CS check" and "date of last phone call". He has a track record of choices and behaviors that have sent him down that road. If he sticks with the pattern with S3, then perhaps even before S3 gets into elementary school (where there are those openings for S3's dad to try to get access), a TPR could go through.

Worth documenting and tracking, seems like.

Yes, boilerplate. The legal services lawyer said a judge will not take it out, unless there are current safety issues and proof of current harassment, etc.

He is the noncustodial parent across the board. I am the custodial parent.

He has not attempted contact with me or S5 in at least a year. I had some text messages saved where he kept randomly texting me from different numbers (he never keeps the same number for long) but S5 threw my phone in the bathtub and now I no longer have those messages. I suppose there may be a way to retrieve them from my phone service provider. The messages included a tearful message in Sept of 2019 that said he was going to rehab (he didn't) and he wanted to see our son. The last message I remember asked me for money because he was homeless and broke.

I do have records of messages sent through Facebook messenger. The last one was dated Sept 12, 2019, a few days before he said he was going to rehab. The message says:

"Just so you know I saw y'all pass by. Everything is weird here. FBI that sneaks around and doesn't want town authority to know. I'm calling bull, I'm saying one person responsible for all then I'm gonna sit back and watch what happens".

I also have on messenger a notification that says he edited my nickname to "married cheatin w**** that the court sustain F***". whatever that means. Before that, my name was apparently "B****" according to notifications.

He does currently pay (intermittent) child support, set at $150/month because when we went to child support court he gave a sob story about being down on his luck and on unemployment (before the pandemic). My legal services lawyer calculated that he should be paying $428/month according to his income now.

I am not really sure if he will even contest that, now that I think about it. He thrives on being a victim and he has strong anti-social traits, so unpaid debts do not bother him in the least.

There's also the possibility that the fraudulent business loan he took out last year during the pandemic will catch up to him. He may be going to federal prison in the near future.

Time flies, Kells! Son is now 5.5 and starts kindergarten in 3 weeks.

I do not know how TPR works other than I know that it can be done if a parent is incarcerated for 10 or more years.

The more I think about this, the more I think I need to get my other lawyer involved in advice.

It's complicated, so stay with me:

You may or may not know my backstory. It involves the fact that I lost custody of my five oldest kids who were eventually placed under the legal guardianship of my (covert narcissistic) older sister.

I have been stuck under a supervised visitation court order since 2016, and it's been a long road to get here with many curves, but I have recently hired a family attorney to begin the process of petitioning the court for the supervised stipulation to be lifted, with a long game (probably 18 months or so) goal of regaining custody.

This is a lawyer I hired. He advised me to go through legal services for the divorce (he said he would be happy to do it, but he knows I am a single-mom-waitress-grad student, so he tried to give me sound advice for how to save a buck.

I am supposed to let him know the status of my divorce, so I think I will email him the documents and ask him how this possible contact between my ex and my son will affect the chances of me getting unsupervised visitation with my other kids, and see if he has advice on what to do about it.

Gagrl, I do not have a current protection order. When my old one ran out, I had no grounds to renew it. I should have called and reported the sexual assault when it happened, and that would have given me grounds to renew it a few months later. However, as many sexual assault victims do, I was afraid to report because I felt responsible for placing myself in the position for it to happen. I was also unclear about whether or not it was actually a sexual assault. It's taken me nearly three years to admit that it was, in fact, rape, and ironically I just told my therapist that it's time for me to process it now. I've been putting it off and denying that it has impacted me, and denying that I should be classified as a sexual assault victim. We plan to start working on this in the next session.

To answer other questions:

The orders says he has the right to unimpeded telephone conversations with the child at least twice a week and for reasonable durations. The parent exercising parent time (which is always me) will furnish the other parent with a phone number where the child may be reached on the days and times specified on the parent plan or court order (there are none specified) or where days or times are not specified, at reasonable times.

He has the right to receive directly from the school any educational records customarily made available to parents.

Upon request, the custodial parent shall provide the nc parent with the name, address, phone number, and other contact information of the school.

The right to access and participation in the child's education on the same basis that are provided to all parents, including the right of access to the child during lunch and other school activities, provided it is legal and reasonable and does not interfere with the school's day-to-day operations.

The right to be given 48 hour notice of extracurricular activities (school, athletic, church) at which parental observation would be appropriate. The parent who has enrolled the child in the activity shall provide the information to the other parent so as to give that parent reasonable notice.

None of this would be unsupervised. But plenty of opportunity for him to show up at a place I can't ban him. And he will definitely approach me, and pretend that nothing ever happened. The last time I physically saw him was in child support court, when he walked up and asked if he and his new gf could sit with me. I nearly had a panic attack. He hung around trying to talk to me afterwards, and I had to have the police escort me to my car because I did not feel safe.

[I Am Redeemed]

Can the language specify that all contact has to be supervised?

Just post-divorce, one of my friends's abusive FIL went to the school to have lunch with the kids and convinced the receptionist to let them eat alone in an empty classroom instead of in the cafeteria.  He severely emotionally abused the kids (forced them to make a video saying they hated their mom, etc) during that time.  If he is allowed contact, but it must be in a group setting, that might help mitigate the chance that this type of thing could happen to your son.

This is the exact thing I am worried about. His victim status basically dictates that his communication style with his kids drips with emotional abuse.