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Author Topic: Is there any way to convince him to go to therapy, short of an ultimatum?  (Read 367 times)
hellosun
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic Partner
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« on: July 26, 2021, 09:17:46 AM »

Hi everyone.

Hope you’re having a good summer.

I am in between a rock and a hard place, and have no one I can talk to in person so I am reaching out to strangers on the internet.

My situation:

I’ve been married to a man with uBPD for over ten years, who is both emotionally and (occasionally) physically abusive. I have a disability which prevents me from working and no support network because of that.

My family of origin are the reason I was attracted to such an emotionally unstable partner in the first place, so I don’t talk to them about any of my relationship issues whatsoever.

I used to have significant mental health problems, but don’t anymore. I have done a lot of work both physically and psychologically to heal and retrain my brain to recognize my value.

Right now:

I am pregnant. The abuse has been escalating. I’m not in any physical danger, but being pregnant has made me realize how much I do not want my child to be exposed to ANY abuse in his or her formative years.

I am not neurotypical, and my husband is the only person I’ve ever felt able to completely be myself around. We are genuinely best friends.

That’s why it hurts so much when he goes into his “anger” mode and directs his frustrations at me. It’s like... It feels almost like he is being a character and not himself. Most of the years we have been together I just go into “freeze” mode during his outbursts and block it out after.

I had been good at utilizing not “JADEing” and the communication strategies on this site and whatever, which I am thankful for.

But I am now at the point in my own healing journey where “numbing” isn’t an option anymore. And when I keep myself present in the moment, I recognize I am getting traumatized by the abuse.

When I stand up for myself “that is rude, please stop” or “that is bullying, please stop,” I get a defensive, angry, person who lashes out with stuff like: “you’re a controlling b*tch! I will do whatever I want in my house. You always do this to me. You can’t respect MY NEEDS.” (Which is apparently to take out his impatience on me unkindly? And make fun of me on topics with which I have already expressed discomfort? And clearly to CONTROL MY EXPRESSION of my own emotional reaction? HE is the controlling one.) And he goes on, and ON with verbal abuse if I don’t leave.

It’s the physical stuff that is traumatizing though, because whenever he raises his voice I’m triggered with the fear of him acting out.

Sigh.

I want him to recognize he needs help, and to take responsibility for his actions. I want him to say we need a separation period so he can focus on understanding his anger and abusive behavior. He knows he is causing me significant pain, but it feels like he is usually more concerned about how I view him (“do you hate me?”) rather than the pain he has caused me, and I find myself helping HIM emotionally after one of his outbursts...

Another thing he said to me when he was angry was, “you alway PLAY the victim.”

Really?

Does he actually not see what he is doing to me?

The problem is, therapy is expensive, and we have both had some extremely bad and unhelpful therapists. It’s a hard sell for me to ask him to go to therapy when I low-key think therapy is a scam, especially against the lower classes in so much need. I am not sure there even is a trauma-informed domestic violence therapist where we live.

My husband was laid off in a heartless way recently, and no one from his workplace even checked up on him—ghosted—and of course that sent him into an abandonment spiral so he is being extra unkind to himself.

Being pregnant makes all of this much more stressful.

I feel lost, and unsure if I do need to make an ultimatum of some kind, but I do not want to abandon him right now, and also I prefer his company to being alone. So I feel stuck.

Obviously I cannot force a change, but I deserve to feel safe. In one of our recent productive conversations, he agreed that I deserve to feel safe.

Has anyone ideas about how to gently help their partner see they need to take some positive steps towards emotional healing and addressing their own traumas?

I feel alone and lost.
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kells76
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« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2021, 02:28:37 PM »

hey hellosun,

What you wrote here is so relatable:

Excerpt
I am in between a rock and a hard place, and have no one I can talk to in person so I am reaching out to strangers on the internet.

Yes. Often BPD-type behaviors happen in close relationships, so "everyone else" just thinks that person is "wonderful" or "quirky" or "charismatic" or "superdad" or whatever. It is hard to explain to some people in person what we go through. Glad you're back here sharing.

Excerpt
I have a disability which prevents me from working and no support network because of that.

May I ask, and please don't answer if it's not comfortable, if you are able to drive, for example, or have some transportation options available? I'm curious because of reading your post and learning about the emotional and physical abuse you have been courageous enough to name and discuss.

Excerpt
My family of origin are the reason I was attracted to such an emotionally unstable partner in the first place, so I don’t talk to them about any of my relationship issues whatsoever.

OK, understood. Sounds like your family is not available to you as emotional or other support.

Excerpt
I used to have significant mental health problems, but don’t anymore. I have done a lot of work both physically and psychologically to heal and retrain my brain to recognize my value.

That is hard work, and to be recognized.

Excerpt
I am pregnant. The abuse has been escalating. I’m not in any physical danger, but being pregnant has made me realize how much I do not want my child to be exposed to ANY abuse in his or her formative years.

Yes, understandable. Will this be your first child? Also, congratulations! Babies are such a gift. Of course you want to protect your child, and that mindset will take you far.

...

So you have made it through the many of the dark times of your marriage so far by "numbing out", yet you see it now, and you don't want to do that any more, as you recognize that it isn't a healthy coping mechanism.

At the same time, being present emotionally and/or physically when he rages, is irrational, and is abusive, is toxic and harmful, and you do not want your child exposed to that.

You see that sure, there are things that have happened to him that have contributed to his moods, actions, and attitudes. The layoff, for example. But it's not OK for him to just act out however he wants -- it's a relationship of two people, and you matter just as much as him. It sounds like there's very little room for YOU, the genuine YOU, as even when he causes you pain, he is more concerned about how you perceive him, than what he did.

It's not an "all bad" relationship, and it's definitely not an "all good" relationship. And, with a baby on the way, the stakes -- and stresses -- are higher.

Is that close?

hellosun, you may have heard of the MOSAIC assessment. It's a tool that helps diagnose the level of danger coming from DV, for example. Here's the link:

https://www.mosaicmethod.com/

if you feel comfortable taking it. You may need secure phone/computer access, so of course put your own safety first as you think about taking it.

...

You ended by wondering:

Excerpt
Has anyone ideas about how to gently help their partner see they need to take some positive steps towards emotional healing and addressing their own traumas?

That's such a foundational question here. I wish I had fast answers for you, yet you also sound like the kind of person who is OK with a longer discussion? I hope my guess is close!

Sometimes, in tandem with keeping safety in mind and doing things like having a safety plan, we can also talk on the boards here about recent interactions in a really detailed way (like, I said ABC, then he scowled and said DEF, so I tried to leave and then he yelled insults, then XYZ...), and can identify "turning points" to stop "conversations" from going down an unproductive road.

When conversations are stopped from going down an unproductive (read: blaming, insulting, name calling, abusive) road, that can, in a way, "retrain" partners that abuse and unhealthy conversations aren't tolerated, and can gently put up some bumpers around what's OK in the relationship.

Again, your safety and your baby's safety come first. So, as more experienced members chime in, it's always OK to say "you know what, I'm not ready to try that, it doesn't feel safe".

Hope you can have some moments of peace and relaxation today;

kells76
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formflier
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« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2021, 05:06:07 PM »


I want to join kells76 in encouraging you to being thinking PRIMARILY about your baby's safety.


I also have disabilities that have kept me out of the workforce for a while and more isolated than normal.   If you want to discuss some of those challenges here...I'm interested and available.

Best,

FF
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hellosun
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« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2021, 04:25:44 PM »

Hello Kells!  Welcome new member (click to insert in post)

I appreciate your caring response, thank you. Smiling (click to insert in post)

I will try my best to answer your questions:

- I don’t have a vehicle and cannot drive. I do live in a city, though, so I can walk to a hotel if necessary.

- Yes, he or she will be my first child. Thank you. Smiling (click to insert in post) I have been excited, but recently started to get mild depression (something I haven’t dealt with in years), which may be hormonal or may be from the stress of this situation. I’m not sure... Normally I am good about keeping space for my own mental health and self-care, but I’m hitting an unusually low point lately and that snowballs into anxiety about postpartum depression, which would be awful.

- I took the MOSAIC assessment as you suggested and scored 6 out of 10. On a website about trauma-informed therapy for abusers, I read there are three main mindsets abusers can have (sadistic, controlling/entitled, and dependent-on-partner-for-emotional-survival). I’m not sure if any of these are more likely to be common in pwBPD, but my husband isn’t at all sadistic, and maybe a ratio of 30% controlling/entitled relative 70% dependent.

I don’t believe he would harm me if I decided we needed to separate. I don’t want to overstate the issue. Mild physical abuse has happened 5 times in our relationship total and it never caused any non-psychological damage.

3 of these 5 incidents did happen in the last few months, however, unfortunately...

I will describe the first, as it is what worries me most.

We were having a great day. We spent a lot of time together. As we were eating supper, my sister called to chat. She talked for maybe two hours.

While I was on the phone, my husband got blackout drunk, which I didn’t realize at the time. I have only ever seen my husband get “happy drunk,” and he is NOT an alcoholic, so when I got off the phone I wasn’t sure what to make of his mood and behavior... He was mad at me for spending time talking to my sister and abandoning him all evening.

It was not at all what I expected, since we’d had such a good day and I was looking forward to continuing our earlier conversation.

I figured out he was drunk as he was saying a lot of mean and accusatory things (“you don’t care about me at all”) somewhat tearfully, whilst I was trying to prevent him from drowning in the bathtub... Not sure why he got the idea to take a bath. Anyway, it was bedtime, and even though I was reassuring and all I did was try to calm him down and get him to go to sleep, he did something (not going to go into detail here) that made me fear for my life and put me into a “freeze” state.

The next morning I did not move or talk. My husband was still mad at me when he woke up. He said: “Why are you acting passive-agressively? I am the one who is hurt.”

I was stunned. Why was HE the hurt one? Huh? But I could not say anything.

Eventually he tried to help me because he could see I was in an unusual state, and he ended up getting me food at suppertime even though I wasn’t verbalizing.

At night he asked me what happened. I started crying. He gave ma a hug. I asked him if he didn’t remember. He said he was drinking and wasn’t sure. I asked him if he remembered taking a bath, and he looked quite surprised. So I told him everything except the violent bit.

He apologized. He felt quite genuinely bad. He didn’t remember taking a bath, but he did remember some of the other odd things he had done just enough that he believed me about his verbal abuse towards me, even though he didn’t remember he’d done that.

He was so upset. He threatened to harm himself. He was having such a fragile sense of self that I decided I would never tell him what he did that had actually scared me.

The next day he acted as though nothing had happened, but I was still shaken.

To be fair, he hasn’t gotten drunk since, and has always asked me if it is all right for him to have *one* drink.

A few months after this event he grabbed me and threw me onto the bed during an argument, and I cannot remember if this happened at the same time or not, but he also dropped me to the floor, causing me to break my glasses. (Incidents 2 & 3.)

He never offered to replace them or apologized.

When we talked about it a few days later, he basically said he couldn’t control himself and that it is up to me to stay away from him when he is angry.

This triggers a trauma from my childhood. It was the same scenario with one of my parents, who would lock themselves in a room to prevent themself from harming me when they were raging.

But I am bad at determining when he is in a rage or just walking off sulking... I guess I need to assume the worst.

Anyway, he doesn’t see himself as abusive. And when he is in a good mood, he is not.

But I don’t understand if I need to be more concerned about what happened when he was blackout drunk? Does it count if he doesn’t remember? Or does it reveal some deep, subconscious rage he has towards me that he normally hides which I ought to appreciate and fear? It was a traumatic thing for me.

I am going to edit this post to delete that part later because I don’t want him to accidentally find it. He has actual depression and I am concerned it would crush him to know this... His negative self-talk towards himself is already excessive and I don’t want to add to that problem.

I just want him to get help for his mental health so he can be kinder to himself and understand where his anger is coming from.
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hellosun
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic Partner
Posts: 58



« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2021, 04:51:42 PM »

I want to join kells76 in encouraging you to being thinking PRIMARILY about your baby's safety.


I also have disabilities that have kept me out of the workforce for a while and more isolated than normal.   If you want to discuss some of those challenges here...I'm interested and available.

Best,

FF


Thanks, FF! Smiling (click to insert in post)

I am sorry you have also dealt with similar challenges.

For me right now, the hardest thing is not being able to financially provide for myself and my baby... My husband is struggling with his confidence (BPD devaluation towards himself triggered by aabandonment? he seems to recognize this, but doesn’t want to explore it) and anxiety and feeling hopeless about his job prospects. Our landlord has raised rent in our studio apartment an outrageous amount (and can get away with it—as there’s nowhere else to move any cheaper), so my husband is feeling quite defeated and I wish I could help ease the stress financially...

I am involved in an online community with people who have chronic health issues and disabilities like mine where I try to make supportive contributions (so I have online friends there and a way of making a difference to others), which I imagine you can relate to FF as you are such an important voice on these boards (I don’t spend much time here these days, but I remember reading many of your insightful posts some years ago—thank you for your generosity and compassion).

How did/do you handle the stress of having a partner with BPD when you have been unable to spend as much time with more emotionally balanced individuals out and about?

When I do get to spend “in-person” time with others who are more chill, it can be quite relaxing Laugh out loud (click to insert in post). But it doesn’t happen too often for me at this point.

I hope you’re doing well today, FF.
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