I wonder what it must be like to have BPD

[beatricex]

Sometimes I wonder what it must be like to have BPD and what the challenges are and what it really feels like.  I haven't wandered over to that part of this board (yet) but I do sometimes read on other message boards (pysch central for example) from the perspective of those with BPD.  I ran across a thread about Imposter Syndrome and it made me think about my BPD mother.

My understanding is, for those diagnosed with BPD or with some understanding that they are mentally ill (my Mom will for example admit she's OCD), there is a thing called Imposter Syndrome. 

Has anyone else heard of this and what are your thoughts?  just curious

b

[Notwendy]

From what I have read, this doesn't only happen with BPD, but I would imagine it would be more pronounced with BPD.

Where I have seen this is in relation to very accomplished people, with everyone looking to them as "experts" they can sometimes feel as if "maybe I am not as accomplished as people think I am" or have self doubts. It's been seen in women who are accomplished in professions that were or are dominated by men, and also with minorities in a profession if they don't feel represented in that profession. However, with more diversity in the workplace, this is less of an issue and counseling can help if needed. I also think that if someone does not have BPD, these feelings are not so severe that their relationships are disrupted and the person still maintains a sense of self in general.  

I think this would be more pronounced in someone with BPD who has a poor sense of self. I also think they would need to have some insight to their own feelings to be aware of this. Such a highly accomplished person may have a different persona at their job than at home. I think we have seen where our family members with BPD hold it together in public and are different when they are with us.

I think all of us behave differently in the workplace than when we are at home relaxing but we maintain the sense of who we are in both places. We are still consistently ourselves. I think with BPD the person may feel like a different person at their job if they don't have a consistent sense of self.

[pursuingJoy]

I'm interested in what the thread had to say, it sounds like the conversation got into mental health and imposter syndrome.

I'm with NotWendy, I've heard the term imposter syndrome refer to mostly women who have achieved great things in their career but feel undeserving of the achievements or recognitions, like they'll be discovered for who they really are. Several very healthy, normal friends have reported having this feeling. I'm not sure it's crippling to the individuals as much as it's a reflection of women's roles and how they're changing. Studies show that women in the US still make about 80% of what men make in the workplace. In part, they think it's because women don't fight for a fair hiring salary, they just accept the salary offered. Men are more likely to feel deserving of a higher salary.

My MIL lacks identity at a deeper level. She expects us to make decisions for her, lead her, guide her, tell her what to think, where to spend her money, what food to eat. Lack of identity also means she's easily shaken and slighted. An offense can knock her off her base and make her angry and hurt, so she lashes out, usually with passive aggressive moves and comments. She tries to fill the emptiness by giving extravagant gifts to keep people on the hook and playing the victim to get attention.

pwBPD can have successful careers - I'm thinking a person with BPD and imposter syndrome might take it to another level.

[beatricex]

hi Notwendy,
Yes and I was also thinking that for my Mom who was a homemaker and raised 6 kids, it is pronounced like others here have described to pump her up about it.  She needs almost constant reassurement that she was and is a good mother.  Not only a good one, but superior.  Quite a bit of jealousy is attributed to my Mom comparing herself to other mothers in the family (also grandmothers) and her wanting to be the "favorite."


It used to annoy me how much emphasis was placed on Mother's day in our house growing up for example...
b

[Skip]

I ran across a thread about Imposter Syndrome and it made me think about my BPD mother.

To take a techy stab at this...

I believe the term is Imposter Phenomenon.

A "disease" usually has a defining cause, distinguishing symptoms and treatments.
A "syndrome" on the other hand, is a group of symptoms that might not always have a definite cause.
A 'phenomenon" is like a symptom or an observance. For example, "placebo effect". It is know that placebos can lead to improvements in people’s symptoms and functioning. Bystander effect. Often, the more people who are present at an emergency situation, the less likely any one of them will help. Impostor phenomenon occurs among high achievers who are unable to internalize and accept their success. Tom Hanks is an example.

Impostor phenomenon was first described by psychologists Suzanne Imes, PhD, and Pauline Rose Clance, PhD, in the 1970s.

How does this relate to BPD?

My observation has been that pwBPD traits are not by any means oblivious to their struggles - but they employ common defenses mechanisms like Minimization, Abnegation and in some cases, Anosognosia.

I think this is why they will sometimes self identify with safer sounding things like c-PTSD, or in this case, Imposter Phenomenon.

Many people with a mental illness do not fully grasp that they are afflicted.  What is often viewed by family members to be immaturity, stubbornness,  or defensiveness, is really a much more complex problem - Minimization, Abnegation and in some cases, Anosognosia.

    "Anosognosia" is the clinical term for having a deficit of self-awareness, a condition in which a person who suffers a certain disability is unaware of its existence.  According to Edwin Fuller Torrey, M.D, Anosognosia is the single largest reason why individuals with schizophrenia and bipolar disorder do not take their medications.

    "Abnegation" is a defense mechanism postulated by Sigmund Freud. When a person is faced with facts that are too uncomfortable to accept, they are rejected - despite what may be overwhelming evidence.

    "Minimization" is an exaggerated or irrational thought pattern that is believed to perpetuate the effects of psychopathological states, especially depression and anxiety.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/how-to-get-borderline-into-therapy

We do too.

We ran a discussion here years ago about the lonely child schema. It was a very popular thread with many members jumping in with long posts (over 100 posts in 2 days) to say they were a lonely child, too.  Then we noted that "lonely child" was associated with the narcissistic schema cluster. No one posted a word after that.  

[beatricex]

Hi Skip,
I am glad that Tom Hanks has this phenomena, cause had he not, he would not have kept making so many good  movies, to "prove" to himself that he is, in fact, successful! 

Thanks for the definitions, those really helped me.

I also think this must be how my step daughter feels.  We even call her stubborn and immature, because "mentally ill" just sounds too scary.

b

[missing NC]

Hello Beatricex and all,

This is an excerpt that Randi Kreger (of Walking on Eggshells) shared elsewhere of quotes from individuals with BPD regarding what it feels like to them:

Shehrina Rooney, The Big Book of Borderline Personality Disorder: I
know you are sick of the roller coaster I always seem to be on, often
dragging you along for the ride, But there are a few things I need you
to know. For one, I hate the way I am as much as you do. I struggle
daily with the fear that those I love are going to leave me, and I
desperately try to avoid the inevitable abandonment. I know you think
my fear is irrational—and maybe it is—but it feels so real to me.
And just like you, I wish I could have a happy life, free from the
chaos that seems to follow me wherever I go. The chaos is like a beast
inside me. Sometimes the beast is sleeping and I fool myself and
forget it is there. But when the beast awakes, my world is turned
upside down and I have no control. I may self harm, fight, drink, jump
into a relationship, or use any of the coping mechanisms I have taught
myself over the years.
To you, the behaviors are destructive. To me, they are survival skills
I use when I don’t know how to cope anymore.

Destiny: You can’t remember who you are, and how you ever felt
differently. Sometimes your emotions are so big you are drowning in
them, leaving you feel fragmented and split with your inner self
becoming less and less accessible in these emotional storms. You don't
know who you are, and you can’t remember who you’ve been. When the
pain recedes, all you feel is emptiness and a feeling of being dead
inside.

Rosa: When people ask what it’s like to have BPD, I tell them to
imagine every feeling they have ever had in their lifetime and feeling
them all at the same time—and then having people tell you that every
one of those emotions is wrong. It’s like you’re constantly begging
for help or understanding, but no one else speaks your language.

Sam: Having BPD is chaos, being a small kid inside an adult’s body
with people having expectations of you you just can’t seem to meet.
Hating yourself, not feeling good enough. Being seen as crazy,
manipulative and evil when you’re just a mess inside and don’t mean
any harm to anyone.

Adam: Nothing I feel is average. Either I’m figuratively drunk,
sobbing in a sticky, dark corner of the bar, or the life of the party,
making all the jokes and toasts. When I’m in between, I don’t feel
much of anything--and something that gives me the urge to create drama
so I can feel something. My mood can change on a dime based on what I
read on the news, something I am worried about, or how I feel about
life. Internal things. Or it can be external things, like how others
are treating me, reacting to me, or talking (or not talking) to me. My
mood fluctuates like the stock market. I know intellectually there is
no need to react that strongly. But I can’t help it.

Stan: If I make even the smallest mistake, I am sure everyone is going
to leave me. No one will love me. I try to combat this thinking by
constantly reminding myself “I am chosen.” “I am cared for.” “I am
loved.” Sometimes it takes saying it about a thousand times, but it
works.

Mimi: Imagine a world in which you are positively sure that you are a
complete and utter failure, and everyone thinks you’re an idiot, isn’t
worth listening to, and can’t be trusted. When you get a chance to
show then differently, it turns out wrong no matter what you do. So
you wrap yourself in self-loathing.

Jamal: I feel like a monster, disgusting, guilty, and confused. I ruin
people’s lives, so I push them away and hide from them. At the same
time, I want them to come to me and reassure me, “No, you’re not a
monster,” as I push them away screaming, “Run for your life! Go away!”
But then again, I want to say, “Hug me, maybe.? But...not too much
because I don’t deserve it.”

Donald: Every day, I get pure flashes of honest hatred for the people
whom I love most. I know that I am splitting them [seeing people in
black and white] and that it’s not “real,” but still it hurts my heart
to feel it. Half the battle is knowing that my brain needs to be fixed
and that my emotions are not reality. Just because you feel something
is true does not make it true. That was hard for me to learn.

Sophie: Everyone is lying to my face. No one really cares about me.
That’s what my brain keeps telling me all the time. The only thing I
can do to combat those thoughts is ask my friends and family
repeatedly if they’re lying to me or if they really do care about me.
I ask them so many times I make both of us exhausted and sick. I feel
terrible that I do that to us both, but I don’t know how to stop
asking.

Jody: It’s like I’m constantly screaming for help and understanding
and nobody hears me.

Imani: Having BPD feels like you’re being stabbed in the heart in a
regular basis. You hate yourself. Sometimes you hate everyone else.
You don’t know what to do. You may feel like an alien looking in
whether you’re with strangers, friends, or family. Everyone is
badmouthing you, and you have to admit they’re right because you are
terrible. Teenagers can seem pretty borderline, and borderline people
can seem pretty much like teenagers.

Bai Ling: Heartache makes the world go around and I hate it. I just
don’t want to exist anymore. I don’t want the possibility of someone
hurting me anymore. I want to stop existing because life is too
painful. It’s too exhausting to live this life. I push the people away
I love the most, and I can’t seem to stop myself or even realize what
I have done until it is too late.

Ellen: We can act so PLEASE READ-ass crazy because of the pain. I’m not going
to deny that or make excuses. But I’m going to be honest when I say we
do damage because we are incredibly sick and experiencing pain beyond
what most people can imagine.

Denzel: I know you don’t understand me. I don’t understand me either.
My most common thought is, “Why did I just do that?

Rodney: Imagine being set on fire over and over again, unable to do
anything about it. That is where the impulsivity comes from. We will
do anything to stop the scarlet flames from licking our skin--cutting,
drinking, smoking, doing drugs, spending large sums of money, sex,
quitting our jobs, and attempting suicide. I read it’s like we have
exposed nerve endings. How do you tell a person on fire to use logic?
The crazy thing is that when I’m happy it’s just as intense.

Alejandro: When I am frantic with worry that someone I love is going
to abandon me, I hurt them because I lack self-control in the face of
overwhelming emotion, not because I lack compassion. After I have
taken a step back and surveyed the wreckage, I am filled with guilt
and self-loathing. Fear of abandonment is desperation mode, and I
usually resort to nasty threats. I don’t think I would follow through
with them, but considering my impulsivity and loss of control, I can
see why they would scare people away.

Stephanie: When I’m angry, it takes over like a tidal wave and I lash
out and say mean things, curse and scream. I want to hurt the ones I
love in that moment so they know how I feel. Most people don’t realize
the root of the anger is hurt—although I have to admit sometimes I am
just pissed off. When it’s over, I feel ashamed of myself. I can
apologize, but the damage has been done.

[Turkish]

I never had a deep discussion with my dBPD mother (and I won't theorize here yet), but my uBPDx once told me, when I asked her what she was feeling when she lashed out, "I just want everyone else to feel my pain!"

She used to tell me that she hated that she couldn't control her emotions, and often felt empty.

The imposter phenomenon might be more applicable to children of BPD, taught that they were never good enough.

[Notwendy]

Skip's post is insightful and I think it's important to turn the mirror on ourselves sometimes. The BPD behaviors can be so obvious, it's natural to focus on them. I think it's fair to say we all feel a bit BPD ish or NPD ish sometimes. I think it's a spectrum- but the difference is how much it impacts people's functions and relationships.

I think it's fair to say that non-BPD's can also have traits that we see in pwBPD. Perhaps the difference is how extreme are the behaviors and how much self awareness one has, and perhaps, willingness to accept feedback from other people.

[khibomsis]

My uNBPD mom was happy. Dad supported her to live a high functioning professional life and she loved.it. She would always wonder why we were often jumpy and depressed.  It baffled her completely. Need that emoji that laughs and cries at the same time.

[Notwendy]

Although my father made every effort to make my BPD mother happy, she isn't happy and actually I don't think she ever has been.

He supported her to the best of his ability, even if it meant him living modestly in order to be able to give her the best he could. We kids try too. We tried to behave well as kids and to and try to do nice things for her.

She may have achieved some momentary relief from her inner emotions but mostly they dominate her perception of things. Sadly, our attempts to make her happy were perceived through them.

I feel sad for her that she feels the way she does,  but I can't change how she feels.

[Methuen]

From this website, I found a link that led to a link, and then this video (award winning short film (4 min 35 sec)...

Titled: I am Borderline.  Worth a watch.

www.bpdfamily.org/2016/08/borderline-personality-view-from-inside.html