What if she's too afraid/ashamed to reach out?

[Goosey]

Ya that’s a gut punch.
  Catch your wind.
Think long and hard before any moves.
Be rational.
Be honest of the situation.
Grieve. (Some more).
Sun will come up in the East.
  Other fish in the sea.  Reminds me I gotta start a hobby!

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Ichi]

Thanks once removed and Goosey. Well, one thing is certain, no matter how long they will last, months or years, eventually it WILL crash and burn. And deep down I'm sure she knows. She's not healed all of a sudden now she's in a new relationship.

During the discard she once got upset and said "Why can't I just be normal?" so she is aware something's wrong with her. But when I told her the problems she was facing during our relationship will just keep on continuing in her new relationship she just casually said "Yeah, I know". Like she just doesn't care, keeps fooling herself and probably will keep on making the same mistakes. Sad really...

[aero0421]

Im going through a very very similar situation. Discarded from a years long relationship and a month later, she’s in love with some idiot all over Instagram. It’s impossibly hard, but hopefully every day will get easier.

[Ichi]

Yes, it's awfully hard and I feel for you aero0421. I'm sure if will get easier eventually, but it feels like two steps forward one step back all the time. It's so incredibly frustrating and exhausting, mentally and physically...

[Ichi]

In other threads about similar situations I read that putting up the photo with her and the replacement could be a way of trying to make me jealous. To get a reaction out of me, to test whether I still care and there's still an attachment in place.

What I'm curious to know about is, if that's the case, what are they actually trying to accomplish with that? I mean, trying to make someone jealous in this way is not a particularly attractive thing to do and actually quite a turnoff.

Or do they hope you'll start chasing or begging them? I understand any reaction whatsoever, positive or negative, will give them validation and assurance there's still an attachment. But when it only helps to hurt and anger me and push me away they risk loosing the attachment and any possible future contact. It's kind of counterproductive isn't it?

[once removed]

To get a reaction out of me, to test whether I still care and there's still an attachment in place.

if she were trying to make you jealous with the profile picture, what would it mean to you/for you?

would it feel better if she was, than if she wasnt?

[Ichi]

if she were trying to make you jealous with the profile picture, what would it mean to you/for you?

would it feel better if she was, than if she wasnt?

It would be a very childish and hurtful action to me and a turnoff actually. And confusing too, cause if she actually moved on and is in love why would she feel the need to do that, that would mean she has still not totally let go and is playing games.

And it doesn't necessarily feel better if she was, than if she wasn't. Cause if it means she's still 'thinking' of me, it's most probably because of selfish reasons and need for validation. It doesn't accomplish anything positive or constructive.

I seriously was just curious and trying to learn what's going on in the mind of pwBPD when they do these things to make you jealous.

[Anonym2806]

Well, what I desperately have been trying to prevent the last 3 months has unfortunately just happened. I saw a photo of my ex with her replacement looking totally happy and in love. I haven't looked on her social media once since the discard 3 months ago to prevent this from happening. However, since I still have her on Whatsapp I saw in my friends list she had changed her profile picture (small} and there were 2 people on it. So I clicked on it and there they were, looking all happy and in love, and it immediately threw me into a huge panic attack.

Damn, just when I was feeling a bit better the last few days. NEVER in the 5 years we were together has she ever put a photo of us two together as her profile picture on any social media or WhatsApp, ALWAYS a photo of only herself, while we had MANY 'in love' photos of us together. This is SO not her and out of character for her. And I'm really wondering whether she did this to hurt me or get a reaction out of me. She probably assumes I'm not watching her social media and knows using WhatsApp is the only way to show me this photo.

I know I shouldn't read into things too much but I really think she's annoyed I have been in NC since the discard 3 months ago and expected me to chase her and contact her. Also I've been posting on social media about living my life and being happy (not showy) so I wonder whether she did this as a way to get a reaction out of me cause she knows I will see the photo.

I SO wish I hadn't seen this photo, it really hurts me and I feel like I went back a few squares in my progress. I feel hurt, sad, angry and even repulsed seeing them together, seemingly still happy and in love after 3 months. While I've been reading and posting on this forum still having hope for a possible reconciliation in the future. I now feel like ALL hope for a reconciliation is lost and they will live happily ever after and even wonder if it WAS actually all my fault.

Hi mate,

Sorry to read this. My ex did the same last week. In 1 year relationship with me, she never shown to anyone she was on a relationship. I've been NC for 2 months now.
1 month ago, she met a guy (Heavy cocaine consumer), not good looking at all. I saw them together 3 weeks ago. The day after, she unblocked me on imessage but I didn't send anything. Last Friday, she posted a picture of their hands on instagram saying "happiness is true when shared".
What an asshole. I was pissed off, sure, but I bet she wants me to react. I didn't and I will never reachout.
It's cheap and childish. I will never contact her again. I did love her, it hurts but doing this disgusted me.
Good luck.

[Ichi]

Yeah it's hard and hurtful Anonym2806. I feel for you, but I think not reacting is indeed the only way to go. Take care.

[Ichi]

SAM-E was a big one, maybe the most effective. it really limited the ruminations. i recommend getting it at an herb store, it will be cheaper, and the grocery store stuff gave me an upset stomach at higher doses.
passion flower knocked out my anxiety attacks. i dont know how it would do with panic attacks, specifically.

Once removed, I'm looking into SAM-E and passion flower, do you have any advice/experience on what dose is best for both and maybe other things I should pay attention to?

[once removed]

Once removed, I'm looking into SAM-E and passion flower, do you have any advice/experience on what dose is best for both and maybe other things I should pay attention to?

i tended to take high doses of both.

1600 milligrams of SAM-E is the max dose that is used in clinical settings to treat depression. that much is probably not needed, though i took that much at various times. i noticed max benefits around 800. it can take a week or so to kick in, its always taken me no more than 2 days. just make sure, that like i said, you get it from an herb store rather than a grocery store. grocery stores tend to contain an ingredient that badly upset my stomach.

passion flower comes in capsule and droplet form. i liked both, and mixed them. droplets are gonna be absorbed better, and more quickly, though. i dont remember dosages, but it should say on the bottle.

neither will be a cure, but after a couple of days of SAM-E youll wake up on the right side of the bed like youve never felt before, and it will make everything smaller and more manageable. passion flower will nip the anxiety attacks in the bud when they happen, and that will help your body start to adjust to the stress.

[Ichi]

Sorry for the late reply once removed, but I haven't feeling well past days. Feels like I went a few steps back in my progress. Had a HUGE panic attack a few days ago, even felt dissociated for a while. It really scared me, luckily I was not alone.

It's so exhausting and frustrating, trying so hard to get my strength and balance back, but feeling like I'm not making any real progress. I so desperately want to feel strong and confident, to finally get my life back on track. And I know it sounds strange, but I also feel sort of pressured to speed up the progress cause I keep telling myself the only way I can handle any contact with her or a possible reconciliation is from a strong, confident and balanced state of mind. And I know that happening any time soon if ever is unrealistic, but I kind of pressure and expect from myself to be already in that strong and balanced place, to be ready for it.

I've been taking passion flower since yesterday and it seems to help a bit with the panic attacks. Today I've started taking 400mg SAM-e for the first time and also took passion flower, but I notice I'm having a LOT of anxiety and panic today. Did you notice any increase in anxiety when starting to take SAM-e? Could it be a possible side effect?

[once removed]

Could it be a possible side effect?

yes, it could be.

sam-e acts as a natural antidepressant/mood stabilizer. natural as it may be, that can cause increased anxiety.

i would be pretty surprised if it was having any effect, good or bad, at this point, but it could.

I so desperately want to feel strong and confident, to finally get my life back on track.

you can do things to accomplish this, although results wont happen over night.

having said that, give yourself permission to grieve. if she had died, you wouldnt be pummeling yourself for how you feel. its strong and confident to grieve - to not be okay.

[once removed]

Had a HUGE panic attack a few days ago, even felt dissociated for a while.

would you say you were operating on a lot of adrenaline during the relationship?

[Ichi]

would you say you were operating on a lot of adrenaline during the relationship?

Yes, definitely. I felt stressed and on edge a lot of the time, and like I could never fully relax.

[once removed]

i did as well. when my relationship ended, id have a daily anxiety attack around 30 minutes after i woke up and last for hours.

i suspect a lot of what youre experiencing has to do with that. its going to take some adjusting. the passion flower should help big time, and i would think the sam-e should as well, but the advice given to me at the time was to do some things that would remind my body of normal cues to be shocked by. things as simple as blasting your face with cold water. working out can help even you out as well.

there are also breathing relaxation techniques which can have dramatic results, though they can be pretty difficult to engage in when youre in the midst of that kind of panic or anxiety.

[Ichi]

I'm really fighting the urge to contact her the past few days, I think it worsened since I saw her profile picture with her replacement a week ago. I talked to my brother who still has her on Facebook and he told me that before my ex posted the profile picture with her replacement a week ago, she had only posted photos of herself, without the replacement, the past 3 months.

Now I'm wondering if maybe she was still in doubt about her replacement or hoping or waiting for me to contact her, to change her mind and maybe give me another chance. And since I didn't contact her and didn't wish her a happy birthday, she decided I wasn't interested anymore and she has moved on. The profile picture change across all social media platforms really seemed like a statement, and very atypical to do for her. Whether it is to make me jealous or as a way to say "You've had your chance and blew it, I didn't hear from you and now I've moved on".

I'm really wondering if maybe I DID still have a chance and I might have waited too long and missed my chance, and that she now has decided to move on. Maybe I SHOULD have contacted her, now I really regret not doing so. The urge to contact her is still very much there, however now she's made her relationship 'official' with her profile photo it makes it even more difficult for me, as they 'seem' happy and in love and maybe it's just too late and I blew my chance.

Trust me, I'm really trying to be realistic and not just being hopeful, and maybe I'm wrong, but it's a really strong intuitive feeling I'm having. And though I understand and agree in most cases no contact is the best, I'm really worried and wondering if that was actually the best 'strategy' in my specific situation, whether I maybe 'misread' the situation and should have contacted her and checked up on her. Maybe I blew it, waited too long and let them grow closer and closer until she decided to move on.

What are your thoughts on this, do you still think no contact is the best, considering what I said? To just let her new relationship run its course, with the risk of them growing even more close? And do you think her posting the profile picture with her replacement has diminished my chances for a reconciliation?

I know I may sound like I'm rambling, ruminating and trying to fool myself, but it's really a serious question. I just wanted to be really clear about my thoughts. I guess it's easy to say "if she's done, she's done", but every situation is different and every person is different. And I just don't want to regret anything and missing my chance. When she broke up with me she said "I don't want to lose you", but I REALLY don't think my ex is the kind of person to ever reach out herself.

[once removed]

i think for these things to be the case, you would have to assume that shes been in a relationship for this amount of time, all while hoping you would reach out so the two of you could get back together; that she didnt simply reach out to you, but instead used a profile picture to get your attention and motivate you to reconcile the relationship.

ichi, this is a relationship that she ended, and you said she was starting the next one for two months before the breakup.

i dont say these things to hurt your feelings. i say them because i know them very well.

this is the Bargaining phase of the stages of grief. in order to break through the pain that is paralyzing you, you sometimes have to confront some of the things that hurt the most. it will break your heart to do so, and then it will start to get better.

And though I understand and agree in most cases no contact is the best

my suggestion is not about "no contact" - a tool to use when actively trying to detach, as opposed to when you want to reconcile.

my suggestion is more about "contact to what end"? what would you want to say? what would you hope to accomplish?

[Goosey]

Yup.
  The grieve phases absolutely positively suck.
  How you doing otherwise?
   I know that sounds callous but are you going about the act we have to do to keep afloat? If the answer is ya, your doing miserable but ok. 
  That’s why we are here.
  I reached out a few times… afterwards I was like”why the F did I just do that?” 
   Ya it’s a quick adrenaline spurt of nonsense. 
  Your doing good.
  There is no cure for the stages of grieve except time… and naps haha. Obviously I’m older because I covet naps.
It does get better.
Doing nothing is not doing nothing.
It’s doing something…. For you,  be for you.
     
 
 
   
   

[Ichi]

ichi, this is a relationship that she ended, and you said she was starting the next one for two months before the breakup.

Yes, she said she started to like him 2 months before the breakup. He is a colleague of hers, but from a different appartement, so there couldn't have been much time or room for contact. She told me they had only been texting for 3 weeks and it was still 'very fresh'. That's why I said I regret not putting in more effort to change her mind right after the breakup, that maybe there was still some doubt on her part and room to convince her when she wasn't too deep in the new relationship yet.

my suggestion is more about "contact to what end"? what would you want to say? what would you hope to accomplish?

I know I keep coming back to it, but I keep struggling with the fact that I would like her to know I did a lot of soul searching and am now aware of my shortcomings and my part in what went wrong in the relationship and what to work on. I'm not saying it will necessarily change her mind right away, but maybe plant a seed so she at least will think things might be different if we would reconcile. I'm pretty sure her mindset now is "He's not aware of what he did wrong and if he is, he's not taking responsibility for it, not taking it seriously or not willing to work on it. Nothing will change if we would try again".

And what I would like and hope is to change that mindset and let her know that I am aware, I am taking it seriously and working on it. So maybe on the long run it will help change her mind and reconsider her decision and convince her to give it another try. I mean, without ANY contact whatsoever, any way to show or tell her, how would she EVER know I've changed and things could be different if we would try again.

[Ichi]

  How you doing otherwise?
   I know that sounds callous but are you going about the act we have to do to keep afloat?

I'm trying very hard to get my life back on track, but I'm really struggling with it. Especially with the anxiety and panic attacks that really exhaust me and drain all my energy and motivation. I try to keep myself busy but the fact that I don't have much of a support system or friends, makes it really difficult and lonely most of the time.

I try to put myself in as many social situations as possible, however due to my anxiety and panic attacks it doesn't really work or help that well. Went to a birthday gathering yesterday, but I got really overstimulated and anxious and almost every topic of conversation was a huge trigger for me. So I had to leave early as I got really anxious and depressed. It really sucks that the things that should help me to give me some distraction and make me feel better are in fact only making me more anxious and depressed.

[once removed]

I am taking it seriously and working on it.

what are you working on? how would you get it across to her?

[Ichi]

what are you working on? how would you get it across to her?

There are several things I'm working on:

- Better communication skills: Listen better, don't interrupt, validate, don't defend, don't argue, not escalating

- BPD tools and skills: SET, JADE, etc

- Being more patient and understanding

- Not so easily being irritated and frustrated by things or getting angry

- Not trying to 'fix', rescue and 'parent' her

- Being less of a 'control freak' and not trying to manage everything on my own

- Paying more attention to my own life, hobbies, interests and friends/family, job which I kind of ignored during our relationship. Focusing too much on her and our relationship I think in the end engulfed and suffocated her.

- Being more positive and optimistic then I was, especially during the last year of our relationship when I was pretty down and depressed.


These are all things I think in a way attributed to the her ending the relationship. Not to say it was all my fault, obviously she had a lot of issues too. But these are things I'm working on to improve, for myself and a possible future relationship, either with her or someone else.

How I would get this across to her is exactly the problem. If there is no contact whatsoever, there is no way for her to see any change or realize a possible future relationship could be different, and she would think I'm still the same.

IF I should decide to write her a letter/email mentioning these things (minus the BPD) I guess it would be something like this (example I found online, but in the same vein):


“Hey Ex,

I hope you are well. I just wanted to let you  know that I have taken some time to think  about things, to learn more about myself and figure out where it went wrong.

I realized I made a few mistakes in the  relationship and I have learned from them.  [Then go into a little detail about what I have learned]. I don’t want to repeat those same mistakes in the future and affect any of my future relationships.

That being said, how have you been? I would  love to catchup with you someday and honestly,  I miss speaking with you and  sharing things with you. If you are not  comfortable with that, I completely  understand.”


However, when would be the best time to do it. At the moment it SEEMS like she's still in the honeymoon phase of her new relationship and sending it now could maybe have the opposite effect. But if I wait to long there is the risk of them growing even more close and her forgetting about me.

I just don't know and I'm still not sure if it's the right thing to do. And I'm not saying it will change her mind, but it just feels like I will regret not doing so and having tried everything in my power to reverse the breakup. I'm really trying to be realistic and if the best 'strategy' for a possible future reconciliation is not contacting her and let the new relationship play itself out I guess I have to accept that. However I'm not really convinced yet it's the best strategy in my situation and it would hurt even more if she, somewhere in the future, would tell me "If you had tried harder back then, things could have been different".

And like I said before, I REALLY don't think she would ever reach out to me by herself. And knowing her, she's the type that's pretty fixated on settling down and getting married. So to be honest, I don't really see their relationship crashing anytime soon and she'll probably drag it out for years even is she's not happy.

Do you still think not contacting her/sending the letter and let her new relationship run its course is the best 'strategy' in my situation? Is writing this letter after more than 3 months too late anyway? Do you think in my situation any chance of reconciliation increases or diminishes with time?

[Goosey]

Good letter.
Write more to yourself.
Send NONE.
Again. And again. And and again.
Grieving sucks.
   And again. It does get better.
You can do this. I swear over time it does easier. Over time all those rosy remembrances will become realistic memory.
   Hey! This stuff is hard! 
   But again. It does get easier. One day you’ll just wake up in a adherent good mood. Hell you’ll spend a whole day not even thinking about it.
   I promise it does happen. Hang in there.
   
 

[Ichi]

Good letter.
Write more to yourself.
Send NONE.

And why do you recommend not sending a letter? I just like to consider all options and what would be the most helpful and effective for a possible future reconciliation.

[once removed]

first and foremost, anything you may send, you have to think about from her perspective, and how shes going to take it.

shes going to think "what is this about, and why now?". she may be apprehensive.

certainly, your best bet is something light and upbeat. playing catchup is safe, and it telegraphs your intentions. i would probably not mix that in with reflections about your relationship of any kind.

more than likely, thats not a road she wants to go down, and if she does, thats not necessarily a good thing. all that telling her about your mistakes does, at this point, is justify her decision to break up.

you also have to consider that she may be in a place where she considers it best to move on, or she would consider interacting with you to be inappropriate.

so while "hey, how ya doin" is your best bet, you have to be emotionally prepared that she either may not respond, or may not be open to that conversation. it is also very likely that even if shes very open to catching up with you, it will be a one off conversation. its not likely to be anything that you can build on. additionally, if she is open, there's a decent likelihood that shes going to talk about her relationship.

are you prepared for all of that?

[Goosey]

Strangers with memories.
Comes a time.
 

[Ichi]

are you prepared for all of that?

I'm not sure to be honest. So you think it's basically a lost cause, a hopeless situation? There's nothing I could really say or do to make her reconsider her decision? I just have to hope and 'wait' she'll change her mind on her own or her relationship crashes and she might reconsider me, all of which are probably unrealistic?

There's no way whatsoever to fight for her or prove my love? I know she's the type of person that wants others to do so, due to her insecurities and fear of abandonment. To prove her that she's worth it, that their love is true and she won't be abandoned. And me fighting for her and proving my sincere love was how we got together in the first place.

I now deeply regret not fighting for her more and proving my love for her when she broke up. I accepted it way too easily, without really discussing it or trying to change her mind. In hindsight I think there was still a chance and I should have tried harder and could have changed her mind back then. And maybe she was hurt and disappointed I accepted it so easily and didn't try to talk about it or to change her mind. I guess in her mind that convinced her that I didn't love her enough, didn't think she was worth it and I was okay with the breakup. But I was numb, confused, hurt and worn out.

Now I so wish I had handled it differently at that moment and sat down with her and had an honest and open conversation with her about her feelings. But I know that's too late now and the regret really hurts me and makes me want to salvage the situation and say all the things I should have said to her back then.

[once removed]

So you think it's basically a lost cause, a hopeless situation?

no, not exactly.

i just think, if you are going to have hope, you should invest your hope in things you have control over.

while no two situations are ever exactly alike, and no two people ever feel exactly the same, ive been where you are, and i get what youre going through. it was arguably the toughest thing i ever went through. i had good counsel, for which im still grateful.

if youre going to do anything, you want it to make sense. you want it to have the maximum potential. and you dont want to put your heart on the line. youd be doing exactly that, and it would amplify your pain.

it may sound trite right now. it may not sound like a magic bullet that will alleviate the pain you want to go away. your strongest card is to, not necessarily let go of your hope, but set it aside. to grieve the relationship, and slowly, but surely, emerge from that grief. and then, as youre able, to direct your energy back to what you have control over. building up your life, becoming that best version of yourself. i cant promise you, Ichi, that that will get her back. there are no guarantees. i can promise you that youll be in a stronger, more attractive place if she does. i can promise you, most of all, that you will begin to emerge from the pain youre in.

[Ichi]

Thanks once removed. Have been feeling really terrible lately, despite the SAM-e and passion flower. Having huge panic attacks and anxiety every day and trouble sleeping every night, and it only seems to get worse, even after 4 months. I'm mentally and physically totally exhausted and still keep thinking about her 24/7. I feel totally lost, desperate, confused and incredibly lonely no matter where I am or who I'm with.

I'm trying so hard to get back up on my feet and start rebuilding my life, but I feel totally stuck in every aspect of my life. It will take at least 3 months before I can enter any serious kind of therapy, not the 'low key' therapy I'm getting now which doesn't help me at all. In fact my current therapist ended our sessions today because he said he can't do anything for me anymore. Also, he thinks I don't need therapy and he doesn't believe coming out of a BPD relationship can traumatize you. Really? He thinks it's just like any other breakup and says I just have to get over it.

Besides that I'm still without work and have been for the past 6 years. I lost a well paid job 6 years ago due to a burn out/depression. While I was recovering from that I met my ex and we've been together for 5 years. During that time I more or less functioned as her caregiver and actually put my own life on hold for her, which also meant not really being able to put any time and energy re-integrating and finding a new job.

Now she's left I'm all alone again and kind of stuck in what feels like a hopeless situation. Financially I'm much worse off now because we lived together and her income is gone now. To be able to find a job, which might also need a new education, is only possible when I'm feeling better, it's just not possible at all now. And before I'm back on my feet again will most probably be a long process. So it really feels like it will take years to finally have rebuilt my life again. And to make matters worse there's also a high probability that I will lose my house if I'm not able to find a well paid job within a few years.

And then there's also still the desperate hope of a reconciliation with my ex, how unrealistic it might be. And to even have a chance of that working I first have to be in a better, stronger, and more stable place. But since that will probably take a very long time, maybe years, it really feels hopeless right now. By the time I finally have myself and my life back on track my ex will most probably have totally forgotten about me and moved on for a long time. I feel her slipping away further and further every day and there's nothing I can do to change that in the meantime.

All these things together are causing me huge amounts of stress, panic and anxiety. I feel like I NEED to feel better, I NEED to find a job, and I NEED to get her back. And NONE of it is realistic anytime soon, and EACH of these stands in the way of the other. I know I have to focus on myself right now, but I also know it will be a very long and uncertain road. It really feels like my entire life is a mess right now, a hopeless vicious circle and I have no clue where to start or how to get out of it.