How did your BPD experience affect your relationships with other people?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I'm at the point where I feel my relationship with my BPDex has brought about more good than bad in my life. It's been a painful experience, but a valuable one, and helped uncover and solve (!) various issues that I'd been carrying with me my entire life. It also helped me realise how many things in my current life make me deeply unhappy, and how to make them better. For this I am very grateful.

A couple of weeks ago I had a wake-up call while in a debate with my (male and gay) best friend, who suddenly and violently began to rage at me, and I mean full-blown, disordered rage, word salad, shouting, crying – the whole lot. He had never done this before in all seven years of our friendship. This was followed by a dead-eyed, soulless glare when I told him the following day that I felt my boundaries had been overstepped gravely, and I wouldn't tolerate such violence again – it was exactly, and I mean exactly the dead, cold, thousand-yard stare my ex had given me before both discards. Just no emotional reaction at all, to the point that it scared me. That same night, he showed up at my place, deeply rueful, apologising profusely – it was as if he suddenly was a different person again.  

Mentioned friend was my tether to reality during my relationship with my ex, and he was infallibly loyal (for which I am eternally grateful) but since my ex and I split up, I feel like this friendship has slowly started going down the drain, too. There seems to be a constant power struggle in the back of my friend's mind and I can't for the life of mine figure out, why. He also keeps bringing up my ex and what a loser he was, despite me being over the whole thing and my multiple requests that I don't want to talk about it anymore.

My friend's raging outbreak opened my eyes to a lot of parallels between these two men: their "eccentricities", a grave lack of boundaries, poor social skills, a cold, closed-off demeanour, bizarre gift-giving, high levels of vulnerable narcissism, enmeshment with their respective mothers, etc. and it makes me wonder – is this something other people experience, too? After your breakup, did you suddenly begin to see toxicity in some of your other well-established relationships?

My friend is now cranking up the charm and inviting me out to all kinds of things, and I can't help but wonder whether this is genuine self-improvement, or whether it's just a platonic h00ver. For now, I'm keeping my distance; I just don't feel well in his presence at the moment.

I've been talking this over with my therapist in some detail, trying to recount everything as neutrally as possible, and she confirmed that the raging outburst at mere vulnerability, the cold reaction at my boundary-setting, the sudden on-a-dime personality change etc. wasn't the way a healthy person would act. Since then, I've been making a point to go out and meet other people, and oh boy, the difference – interacting with them feels as if I've stepped out of a dark cloud: even strangers seem so warm and welcoming in comparison! So I do feel that despite the unpleasantness, and having to face the fact that my longest-standing friendship is probably built on sandy ground, all of this is a huge blessing and opportunity to create a better life. But I was curious whether some other members had made similar experiences.

[Sappho11]

I'm at the point where I feel my relationship with my BPDex has brought about more good than bad in my life. It's been a painful experience, but a valuable one, and helped uncover and solve (!) various issues that I'd been carrying with me my entire life. It also helped me realise how many things in my current life make me deeply unhappy, and how to make them better. For this I am very grateful.

A couple of weeks ago I had a wake-up call while in a debate with my (male and gay) best friend, who suddenly and violently began to rage at me, and I mean full-blown, disordered rage, word salad, shouting, crying – the whole lot. He had never done this before in all seven years of our friendship. This was followed by a dead-eyed, soulless glare when I told him the following day that I felt my boundaries had been overstepped gravely, and I wouldn't tolerate such violence again – it was exactly, and I mean exactly the dead, cold, thousand-yard stare my ex had given me before both discards. Just no emotional reaction at all, to the point that it scared me. That same night, he showed up at my place, deeply rueful, apologising profusely – it was as if he suddenly was a different person again.  

Mentioned friend was my tether to reality during my relationship with my ex, and he was infallibly loyal (for which I am eternally grateful) but since my ex and I split up, I feel like this friendship has slowly started going down the drain, too. There seems to be a constant power struggle in the back of my friend's mind and I can't for the life of mine figure out, why. He also keeps bringing up my ex and what a loser he was, despite me being over the whole thing and my multiple requests that I don't want to talk about it anymore.

My friend's raging outbreak opened my eyes to a lot of parallels between these two men: their "eccentricities", a grave lack of boundaries, poor social skills, a cold, closed-off demeanour, bizarre gift-giving, high levels of vulnerable narcissism, enmeshment with their respective mothers, etc. and it makes me wonder – is this something other people experience, too? After your breakup, did you suddenly begin to see toxicity in some of your other well-established relationships?

My friend is now cranking up the charm and inviting me out to all kinds of things, and I can't help but wonder whether this is genuine self-improvement, or whether it's just a platonic h00ver. For now, I'm keeping my distance; I just don't feel well in his presence at the moment.

I've been talking this over with my therapist in some detail, trying to recount everything as neutrally as possible, and she confirmed that the raging outburst at mere vulnerability, the cold reaction at my boundary-setting, the sudden on-a-dime personality change etc. wasn't the way a healthy person would act. Since then, I've been making a point to go out and meet other people, and oh boy, the difference – interacting with them feels as if I've stepped out of a dark cloud: even strangers seem so warm and welcoming in comparison! So I do feel that despite the unpleasantness, and having to face the fact that my longest-standing friendship is probably built on sandy ground, all of this is a huge blessing and opportunity to create a better life. But I was curious whether some other members had made similar experiences.

[ILMBPDC]

After your breakup, did you suddenly begin to see toxicity in some of your other well-established relationships?

Hi Sappho11 - I haven't suddenly noticed new toxicity in some of my other relationships, but I am finding that I seem to be much less tolerant of the bullsh*t I've put up with in the past.
I'm pretty sure my mom is a covert narcissist and while I've known most of my life that I have to walk on eggshells around her, I'm finding that I don't really care anymore (I mean, I care, she's my mom and that's a hard relationship to let go of, but I'm finding that I am not catering to her anymore and I'm saying more of what I actually think instead of just trying to make her happy like a good codependent)

I don't know if this is because of my BPD relationship or because of all the work I've been doing on myself this year or both but I do think its a really good thing for me.

[Cromwell]

It made me appreciate stable people Because at that moment i left, stability is what i craved and needed. The initial downside is, they gave stability and with it, a lot of boredom Bevause there was an absence of accustomed to drama entertainment.

My therapist explained that id adapted to a baseline and its due to previous circumstances it is an environmental accumulation of factors. I believe it because changing the factors eventually lowered the baseline. I can now appreciate a conversation with a stable person and find points of genuine interest minus any drama. What id say is. It took a few years incrementally to get there. It is also a daily task to maintain stable social relations. I find myself like tending a garden of friendships to my liking, rather than just tolerating all their idiosyncrasies as i did before.

How you describe their respective reactions sounds like they may have been dumbstrucked by your reaction. Its rational if especially this was the first time you really put the boot on and used it. My ex went from vile mouthed serpent who mumbled with greeted teeth to docile and sheepish. All i did was calmly ask "so what do you plan to do to me?" and it knocked her for 6, it made her realise i wasn't baited by the invitation to shout or argue or get neurons past the threshold. Just as well someone was calm because these incidents kept occurring on the motorway whilst I've got my hands on steering wheel.

If this was a once in 7 years out of character meltdown of an otherwise great friendship, id give it some more thought. I wonder if your just becoming more assertive after this relationship experience and close one's are going to have to adapt, a transition phase of sorts?

[Sappho11]

Hi Sappho11 - I haven't suddenly noticed new toxicity in some of my other relationships, but I am finding that I seem to be much less tolerant of the bullsh*t I've put up with in the past.
I'm pretty sure my mom is a covert narcissist and while I've known most of my life that I have to walk on eggshells around her, I'm finding that I don't really care anymore (I mean, I care, she's my mom and that's a hard relationship to let go of, but I'm finding that I am not catering to her anymore and I'm saying more of what I actually think instead of just trying to make her happy like a good codependent)

I don't know if this is because of my BPD relationship or because of all the work I've been doing on myself this year or both but I do think its a really good thing for me.

Thank you for your input! This makes so much sense. I think I'm in the same boat – less tolerant of BS, and at the same time, doing certain work in therapy and feeling more like my authentic self.

It made me appreciate stable people Because at that moment i left, stability is what i craved and needed. The initial downside is, they gave stability and with it, a lot of boredom Bevause there was an absence of accustomed to drama entertainment.

My therapist explained that id adapted to a baseline and its due to previous circumstances it is an environmental accumulation of factors. I believe it because changing the factors eventually lowered the baseline. I can now appreciate a conversation with a stable person and find points of genuine interest minus any drama. What id say is. It took a few years incrementally to get there. It is also a daily task to maintain stable social relations. I find myself like tending a garden of friendships to my liking, rather than just tolerating all their idiosyncrasies as i did before.

Cromwell, that is beautifully put and exactly what I feel on the brink of doing now! Tolerating idiosyncrasies is exactly what it was. My entire life I've surrounded myself with people who just "happened to be there" and wanted to spend time with me, tolerating their every whim and character flaw, instead of asking myself "Is this someone I actually want to spend time with?". I also have a bad habit of sticking with friendships way past their souring, so there's that, too.

How you describe their respective reactions sounds like they may have been dumbstrucked by your reaction. Its rational if especially this was the first time you really put the boot on and used it. My ex went from vile mouthed serpent who mumbled with greeted teeth to docile and sheepish. All i did was calmly ask "so what do you plan to do to me?" and it knocked her for 6, it made her realise i wasn't baited by the invitation to shout or argue or get neurons past the threshold. Just as well someone was calm because these incidents kept occurring on the motorway whilst I've got my hands on steering wheel.

If this was a once in 7 years out of character meltdown of an otherwise great friendship, id give it some more thought.

You're quite right, and I'm not planning to cut him out of my life. But I've realised that he's been occupying a place in my life that was much too important and grand for what the friendship really is.

For the record, it's not the first time we've had a huge fight, but this one just blew all the others out of the water. I made myself vulnerable, and instead of trying to hear what I was saying, he immediately deflected, flew into a rage, and started accusing me of bizarre things no normal person would find accusable, yelling at me the entire time. He was shouting for at least a quarter hour. By that time, I was in tears and begged him to leave. He wouldn't and instead kept yelling.

It followed the blueprint of the terrible, nonsensical emotional fights with my BPD ex to a T. I've always known that my friend has a deep narcissistic streak, but he's mostly kept it under wraps towards me (though it was constantly apparent in his treatment of others). Every now and again over the past years, this suppressed aspect of his personality would break through and cause a lot of pain to everyone in its range. We always made up and things would be fine for a year or so, until the next emotional accident.

After the recent fight I feel like I've really, manifestly seen who he truly is deep down, to the point where I cannot deny it any longer. And I don't like that person I saw that night.

I wonder if your just becoming more assertive after this relationship experience and close one's are going to have to adapt, a transition phase of sorts?

Definitely! That's part of the equation. But I'm at the point where I'm thinking if a person can't respect these new, healthy boundaries, then they simply cannot be a part of my new, healthy life. It's "take no prisoners" for me now – life's too short and I don't have forever.

[Cromwell]

Youll find much more compatible folk who can self regulate their behaviours and don't need constant boundary checks. Personally disorders come in groups of friends, i knew that as long as she would be around it would hamper any potential other relationship. They repel people who don't want that lifestyle and if your associated you get sidelined. Fly with the crows get shot down with them.

Except for a handful of stable folk I knew but didn't have much contact with. I walked away from her and everyone. I built from beginning the garden and it's been a continual delight. Its a bit strange to have dozens of friends all cooperating and getting along. I start to forget things like 'wheres the argument? Or aggression. This has become the new normal.

It sounds like your off to a decisive start i wish you well it worked for me. The hardest part was making the choice its what i hesitated for years, it works when the mind is in harmony to a goal and not conflicted with uncertainties and doubts.

Now all there is to put action to the words like a song does not get played until a musician uses their skill to the instrument.

[poppy2]

hey Sappho,

I can't relate (yet) to the specific learning curve that you're experiencing, but I think it is part of the "gratitude" stage after a failed relationship .. after the hurt and grief you realized you have learnt important things that you can take forward in your life. So it's great to see that you've reached that stage, congratulations!

I just wanna point out that there are two more  in your post and this experience with your friend: one of them is that you feel that there is a power struggle going on, and that you don't understand "why". One thing I have taken out of my last relationship is jettisoning this wish to understand why. That is difficult, when you have history with somebody, when they have helped or been there for you, and you naturally want to understand or relate to their behaviour. But, from my own experiences, once you perceive there is a power struggle going on you simply distance yourself... which is precisely what you've done anyway. Trusting the gut is the way forward. Being drawn into a power struggle, for whatever reason, is not healthy.

Also, the  experience of you saying you don't want to talk anymore about your ex and him still bringing it up. I find that very strange. I think in the "new normal" (which was also my old normal, before I got involved with PDs) basically, you know, once you say you don't want to talk about something people should and do always respect that. It's that simple. I know you're coming at this from a healthy angle where you've already talked to your therapist and taken your distance, but I also wanted to recommend the book "the dance of anger" by harriet lerner to you. Do you know it? It discusses, basically, the role of anger in boundary setting, and lists many examples of people who wanted to change a relationship dynamic and since they were the ones who were "unhappy" they are the ones who need to "change the rules". It's an interesting book and could be useful for you if you want to keep this friendship, but keep it on your terms.

I also would like to share the thought that, if I remember right, you thought your ex had BPD since their symptoms matched those of an old friend of yours? is this the same friend, or a different one? The reason i'm asking is that I wonder if you've been "beset by PDs" in your life in any way? I don't have this impression from your posts, but maybe with your new knowledge it could seem that way. For myself, in the future I forsee a kind of back-and-forth between "take no prisoners, my life is my own, PDs walk the plank!" and also "how did these prior relationship dynamics affect or influence me and how can I change my role in that" and in some sense reading is very helpful (Margarlis Fjelstad's book "Stop Caretaking" held some lessons for me), and in some sense it's just exactly what Cromwell so eloquently says, and you already affirm - the choices you make about the people you want to have around you define who you are, and not any past patterns.

Finally, in answer to your question in bold about whether the relationship helped in seeing other relationships differently - yes, it did that for me, but more from my FOO rather than in my contemporary life. I can't say I am grateful for this, because I wish that knowledge had been left in the past, and it's now a cross I need to bear onwards into the future, far beyond the significance of this one 9-month relationship. But I can envision, like you describe, a moment of integration in which the knowledge of "past patterns" leads to a better, healthier me. It's just a long way off.

[Sappho11]

hey Sappho,

I can't relate (yet) to the specific learning curve that you're experiencing, but I think it is part of the "gratitude" stage after a failed relationship .. after the hurt and grief you realized you have learnt important things that you can take forward in your life. So it's great to see that you've reached that stage, congratulations!

I just wanna point out that there are two more   in your post and this experience with your friend: one of them is that you feel that there is a power struggle going on, and that you don't understand "why". One thing I have taken out of my last relationship is jettisoning this wish to understand why. That is difficult, when you have history with somebody, when they have helped or been there for you, and you naturally want to understand or relate to their behaviour. But, from my own experiences, once you perceive there is a power struggle going on you simply distance yourself... which is precisely what you've done anyway. Trusting the gut is the way forward. Being drawn into a power struggle, for whatever reason, is not healthy.

Also, the   experience of you saying you don't want to talk anymore about your ex and him still bringing it up. I find that very strange. I think in the "new normal" (which was also my old normal, before I got involved with PDs) basically, you know, once you say you don't want to talk about something people should and do always respect that. It's that simple. I know you're coming at this from a healthy angle where you've already talked to your therapist and taken your distance, but I also wanted to recommend the book "the dance of anger" by harriet lerner to you. Do you know it? It discusses, basically, the role of anger in boundary setting, and lists many examples of people who wanted to change a relationship dynamic and since they were the ones who were "unhappy" they are the ones who need to "change the rules". It's an interesting book and could be useful for you if you want to keep this friendship, but keep it on your terms.

Thank you for pointing out the two red flags, poppy! You are quite right. I'm not familiar with the book you've mentioned, but I'm sure to look it up.

I also would like to share the thought that, if I remember right, you thought your ex had BPD since their symptoms matched those of an old friend of yours? is this the same friend, or a different one?

It's a different friend. My old friend is off-the-charts BPD, we're talking several hospitalisations, five-times-a-week therapy, constant suicidal ideation, reckless behaviour all over the place, etc (yet she somehow manages to keep down her job as a trauma surgeon and to even do it well – the mind boggles). My "current" friend is something of an underachiever, but with a reasonable grip on his life. He started out as a promising student of mine, was taken under my wing and became a confidant, then sadly never lived up to the artistic promise. This is actually a huge part of the problem – even though I've been exceedingly careful to never let any of this on, reality tells him otherwise, and he just can't deal with it.

The reason i'm asking is that I wonder if you've been "beset by PDs" in your life in any way? I don't have this impression from your posts, but maybe with your new knowledge it could seem that way.

Definitely. I had a good, happy childhood, but it was very short. I spent the first six years of my life with my mother and grandfather, but they passed away. Enter the narcissistic foster parents who only wanted my family's money, childhood friends who largely fit the NPD diagnosis, a covert narcissist step father and his psychopathic son, and my two best friends in high school, one a pwBPD, the other histrionic. The person who was most paternal to me was my philosophy teacher – a good man, but also an alcoholic.

My last relationship helped me see how little experience I have with healthy people. One of them was my first love who passed away, and who shines like a beacon to me to this day. This energy is what I'm trying to tap into at the moment – and to find people with the same warm-hearted, genuine, mature, inner stability that he exhibited every single day. (Ironically, he suffered from depression, so he did have his own issues – but there was never any question about his feelings for me or for anyone else dear to him. He always made sure of that. Good man.)

My BPDex was a master at mimicking this at first. It was my fault – I was the one who gave him the rope, so to speak; I made myself vulnerable and thereby handed him a blueprint of the behaviour I desired in a partner.

It's a slow process trying to learn how to "test" and vet people for authenticity henceforth. "Trust actions, not words" is probably a good place to start.

For myself, in the future I forsee a kind of back-and-forth between "take no prisoners, my life is my own, PDs walk the plank!" and also "how did these prior relationship dynamics affect or influence me and how can I change my role in that" and in some sense reading is very helpful (Margarlis Fjelstad's book "Stop Caretaking" held some lessons for me), and in some sense it's just exactly what Cromwell so eloquently says, and you already affirm - the choices you make about the people you want to have around you define who you are, and not any past patterns.

That's such a hopeful message. Thank you, poppy.

Finally, in answer to your question in bold about whether the relationship helped in seeing other relationships differently - yes, it did that for me, but more from my FOO rather than in my contemporary life. I can't say I am grateful for this, because I wish that knowledge had been left in the past, and it's now a cross I need to bear onwards into the future, far beyond the significance of this one 9-month relationship. But I can envision, like you describe, a moment of integration in which the knowledge of "past patterns" leads to a better, healthier me. It's just a long way off.

You'll get there, I promise. These relationships blindside us, it's true. But I also get the sense that in a way, so does healing: you might feel miserable one day, but quite fine the next. You might not be able to see happiness and relief in a dark moment, but that doesn't mean it's far off. It might simply be out of sight because it's right around the corner.

[Ad Meliora]

I may have to get back to you on this one as I haven't embarked on any new relationships since my break-up.  Like Poppy, I'm not quite at the stage you're at where I can stand back and say, "Huh, that was a good learning experience at least..."  This is the longest I've been partner-free in decades.  My BPDex has a bunch to do with that, but so does the pandemic.  Without the latter I would've hurried out to meet new people, find things to distract me from my pain, and just try to create some new memories and not replay the old ones over and over.

It's maybe better this way as I've had more time to contemplate.  More time to understand I don't need a partner to be complete.  I've gained a better understanding of the codependency that did arise in past relationships.  I really don't want to get involved with someone with BPD, or BiPD, or any PD for that matter!  It would be nice to be in a "normal" relationship with a non--whatever that really means and looks like.  I enjoy sharing my life with someone and I told my BPDex that, and that I was unapologetic about that fact.  It was lost on her completely, probably didn't even hear me.

In my other relationships, my friends, let's say, I've been less likely to put up with BS as ILMBPDC pointed out.  I've challenged a friend of mine I've known for decades a bit more as I've seen his viewpoint narrow in recent years.  My two friends in town are staunch introverts, and they've been all too happy to spend days and weeks without really interacting with people other than what is required for their work.  This has been hard on me as I'm the most extroverted of the group.  I like to get people together and have some fun and do shared activities.  These guys have been "Meh" to most of my ideas.

Before my BPDex experience I never would've thought that some people just shouldn't be in a romantic/partnered relationship.  There's someone out there for everyone, right?  Wrong, is how I see it now.  It would be great if people went around with warning labels on them "Untreated BPD" or "Likely Bipolar", but that's not how it works.  People with untreated BPD need to get that under control before they go around making a mess out of other people's lives.  Just look a the huge list of people and experiences here.

I guess it's caveat emptor, so to speak, when it comes to us and approaching new romantic relationships.  It's ultimately up to us to make the proper assessment and find the tools we need to do that.

[MeandThee29]

My friend's raging outbreak opened my eyes to a lot of parallels between these two men: their "eccentricities", a grave lack of boundaries, poor social skills, a cold, closed-off demeanor, bizarre gift-giving, high levels of vulnerable narcissism, enmeshment with their respective mothers, etc. and it makes me wonder – is this something other people experience, too? After your breakup, did you suddenly begin to see toxicity in some of your other well-established relationships?

Definitely. Mine was a marriage of several decades followed by a "gray" divorce, so it required a whole up-end of my world if I was to survive. I learned that I basically had no boundaries. I trusted and believed everyone and took everything people dished up in my life and made excuses for both myself and others that I really should not have made.

The reality is that I had to learn who had a right to be close, who had to be on the outskirts, and who didn't have to be in my life anymore. Sorting through that was really HARD, but it's a healthy place to be. Ironically most of the people that I'm close to now are newer friends that I met after my ex left when I was more mindful about what true friendship is. I'm having a blast with those friends though. Most are retired and/or single (I'm semi-retired), so plenty of time to hang out and do things.

A therapist friend of mine has said that if you set a boundary, and someone has a fit and acts out, it's a strong sign that the person has some level of disorder. He tells clients to give it time and see what happens next. A more balanced person will grasp the problem and be honest and take ownership.

I don't have much interest at all in dating. Folks my age all come with baggage (including me), and I'm not sure I want to deal with that. The asks I've had all had major red flags and were complete no-go's. I really didn't want to get to know them better anyway.

[Gemsforeyes]

It’s so hard for me to post anymore.  I have this shame in realizing how much disgusting behavior I put up with and how late in life I began to learn about these things... the bottom line was, is... I didn’t respect myself.  In many of these close relationships.  I just let these people roll over me with their perceived “needs” and demands.  Minute by minute.

So yes, since I was finally able to wait out the final RAGE-filled exit of my NPD/BPD exBF in 2/2020 (thankfully one month before COVID lockdown), I HAVE seen other relationships for what they are.  Full on.  And have eliminated one completely.  Her doing when she hung up on me screaming.  That was that for me.  I didn’t allow her back.  And that was in December 2020.  Without that constant caller, my evenings are more free to handle my own obligations and not HER constant problems, over and over and over.  She was just like my ex.  I knew it was coming and I had been seeing the similarities over the months until the hang up.  And the funny thing is... after my romantic breakup, she would CONSTANTLY ask if we would get back together, if he had called or texted.  And I repeatedly asked her not to bring him up.  That request fell on her deaf ears.

I spoke to her exH (a very close friend of mine) once since she and I stopped talking.  At the time, He didn’t know why we stopped talking and I didn’t tell him.  They have been divorced for 23 years but she keeps him VERY close to her.  He frequently has supper at her house, every time their daughter, who live a few blocks away,  is there.  The one thing he did say was that she (my ex-friend) would get up in the middle of dinner to GO CALL ME!  WHAT?

Who does that? Even though we live in different time zones, I am up late.  That was a pretty disturbing thing to hear.

Her exH, who actually introduced us, has never called or emailed me since.  He is a friend I’m sorry to lose, but he is pretty much “owned” by her needs and always will be.

Sappho-  I have determined since my ending that I’ve allowed myself to exist in lots of very lopsided relationships.  I am stuck in one, the ultimate “caregiver” role to an elderly relative diagnosed on the spectrum, but that cannot be helped for the time being.  I have read a LOT of your posts, and although I am WAY older than you, it’s painful to see the many similarities between your ex and mine.  More than I’ve ever seen on these boards... the mother / son enmeshment; the Narcissism factor , the incredible impulsiveness, to name three.  And lying. My GOD...  It’s  troubling.  And believe me, left untreated it gets worse with age.

I’ll discuss any of these topics with you.  Just sometimes I need to gather the strength.

Take good care everyone and keep up the good fight.  For yourselves.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[poppy2]

Definitely. I had a good, happy childhood, but it was very short. I spent the first six years of my life with my mother and grandfather, but they passed away. Enter the narcissistic foster parents who only wanted my family's money, childhood friends who largely fit the NPD diagnosis, a covert narcissist step father and his psychopathic son, and my two best friends in high school, one a pwBPD, the other histrionic. The person who was most paternal to me was my philosophy teacher – a good man, but also an alcoholic.

Hmm, that sounds really tough. I'm sorry to hear you had to go through all that. Have you read the Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist book? One lesson for me in there was that altruism can be the product of abusive relationships i.e. taking on more than your fair share of any relationship or friendship dynamic and thinking that is "normal". Tbh, my childhood really set me up for that, but I think being exposed anyhow to these behaviours can form sort of "afterglows" that need to be purged through awareness. I have a friend who has had similar exposure to these disorders like you over her life and the book was really helpful for her too.  I guess the learning curve I am pointing to is - normal can mean very different things, for different people, depending on what they're exposed to, and often we may not even be able to recognize the "normal" we are carrying around.

I like what you say about your first love. I think it's important to have these sorts of "beacons" in one's life, connected to native goodness. They can be touchstones for what is appropriate but also are far more importantly standards for what we deserve. For me a big one was also my philosophy teacher, sadly we don't speak anymore but he was a beautiful friend to me.

My BPDex was a master at mimicking this at first. It was my fault – I was the one who gave him the rope, so to speak; I made myself vulnerable and thereby handed him a blueprint of the behaviour I desired in a partner.

It's a slow process trying to learn how to "test" and vet people for authenticity henceforth. "Trust actions, not words" is probably a good place to start.

I am still so super pissed about this "reading" and "mirroring" behaviour. I don't see how it's your (or my) fault for being vulnerable with somebody else, when that other person is borrowing your sense of self or constructing responses based on what they believe you need to hook and eventually control you. It's just psychopathic, I hate it, because for me it was real and I'm still grieving and missing it sometimes. Some part of me, the part that is involved in these forums and counselling and other activities, really does think that the best way to heal abuse is with more love - I don't mean with the person themselves, they are forsaken to me now. I mean: the answer to betrayal is trust, the answer to silence is speech, and the answer to repression is positive association. It's a counter-intuitive reversal of the egocentric world of the pwPD: the very same goodwill they have sacrified to empower themselves will be what heals me in the end, only with the right people and in the right contexts. And although his life is a cautionary and also traumatic tale, the idealist in me will always believe in Hölderlin's line: Wo aber Gefahr ist, wächst das Rettende auch (where danger is will lie the seed of rescue, in my loose translation.)

That's such a hopeful message. Thank you, poppy.

It's really true! I can attest to this in another way as well. In the past I attracted so many great and genuine friends to me because I was feeling strong, creative and beautiful... and I think I only began to attract and get involved with BPDs once I felt wounded and isolated. So what you radiate can really be what you will receive. MeandThees post has some great points about this too, I think.

You'll get there, I promise. These relationships blindside us, it's true. But I also get the sense that in a way, so does healing: you might feel miserable one day, but quite fine the next. You might not be able to see happiness and relief in a dark moment, but that doesn't mean it's far off. It might simply be out of sight because it's right around the corner.

That's also such a beautiful thought and I thank you for it! I would like to imagine happiness around the corner for me.

[Sappho11]

I guess it's caveat emptor, so to speak, when it comes to us and approaching new romantic relationships.  It's ultimately up to us to make the proper assessment and find the tools we need to do that.

Amen to that. I truly feel that everyone on this board who got out is damn lucky. We somehow managed to save our lives – whether only a late shrapnel of it or most of it, doesn't matter. We've all learnt valuable lessons – seriously, they should teach about PDs in school! – and we're now equipped with the priceless experience to avoid them in the future.

A therapist friend of mine has said that if you set a boundary, and someone has a fit and acts out, it's a strong sign that the person has some level of disorder. He tells clients to give it time and see what happens next. A more balanced person will grasp the problem and be honest and take ownership.

Yes, this! Absolutely. FWIW, I think you're an inspiration. There must be something so freeing to be able to say: "What, there's no-one worthy around to get involved with? Then I won't get involved with anyone, and that's just fine." I'm definitely not at that stage yet.

It’s so hard for me to post anymore.  I have this shame in realizing how much disgusting behavior I put up with and how late in life I began to learn about these things... the bottom line was, is... I didn’t respect myself.  In many of these close relationships.  I just let these people roll over me with their perceived “needs” and demands.  Minute by minute.

I'm so sorry to hear that, Gemsforeyes! Please don't punish yourself, I feel with you. How are you supposed to know who the good people are and what balanced relationships you could have with them, if you're only surrounded by sociopaths, perhaps from birth? It's not your fault.

Sappho-  I have determined since my ending that I’ve allowed myself to exist in lots of very lopsided relationships.  I am stuck in one, the ultimate “caregiver” role to an elderly relative diagnosed on the spectrum, but that cannot be helped for the time being.  I have read a LOT of your posts, and although I am WAY older than you, it’s painful to see the many similarities between your ex and mine.  More than I’ve ever seen on these boards... the mother / son enmeshment; the Narcissism factor , the incredible impulsiveness, to name three.  And lying. My GOD...  It’s  troubling.  And believe me, left untreated it gets worse with age.

I’ll discuss any of these topics with you.  Just sometimes I need to gather the strength.

By all means, please post more! I'd love to hear more from you. It does take some energy, and it may be difficult to put some issues into words at first, but take it from somehow who has spammed (and keeps spamming) this forum with her thoughts and feelings – the payoff is so worth it, it does work and does make you feel better in the mid-term. And you never know whom else you might help!

[Sappho11]

Hmm, that sounds really tough. I'm sorry to hear you had to go through all that. Have you read the Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist book? One lesson for me in there was that altruism can be the product of abusive relationships i.e. taking on more than your fair share of any relationship or friendship dynamic and thinking that is "normal".

This makes perfect sense and rings very true! Thank you for this recommendation, I just bought it and will start reading it tomorrow. Thank you so much!

Tbh, my childhood really set me up for that, but I think being exposed anyhow to these behaviours can form sort of "afterglows" that need to be purged through awareness. I have a friend who has had similar exposure to these disorders like you over her life and the book was really helpful for her too.  I guess the learning curve I am pointing to is - normal can mean very different things, for different people, depending on what they're exposed to, and often we may not even be able to recognize the "normal" we are carrying around.

Yes, excellent point.

I like what you say about your first love. I think it's important to have these sorts of "beacons" in one's life, connected to native goodness. They can be touchstones for what is appropriate but also are far more importantly standards for what we deserve. For me a big one was also my philosophy teacher, sadly we don't speak anymore but he was a beautiful friend to me.

I'm beginning to wonder whether we actually had the same teacher! Or perhaps philosophy teachers are inherently inclined to be benevolent guardians.

I am still so super pissed about this "reading" and "mirroring" behaviour. I don't see how it's your (or my) fault for being vulnerable with somebody else, when that other person is borrowing your sense of self or constructing responses based on what they believe you need to hook and eventually control you. It's just psychopathic, I hate it, because for me it was real and I'm still grieving and missing it sometimes. Some part of me, the part that is involved in these forums and counselling and other activities, really does think that the best way to heal abuse is with more love - I don't mean with the person themselves, they are forsaken to me now. I mean: the answer to betrayal is trust, the answer to silence is speech, and the answer to repression is positive association. It's a counter-intuitive reversal of the egocentric world of the pwPD: the very same goodwill they have sacrified to empower themselves will be what heals me in the end, only with the right people and in the right contexts. And although his life is a cautionary and also traumatic tale, the idealist in me will always believe in Hölderlin's line: Wo aber Gefahr ist, wächst das Rettende auch (where danger is will lie the seed of rescue, in my loose translation.)

Hats off to you for your bigheartedness and generosity – I don't think I could live up to that. Your anger is relatable, and I feel the same way. – And great Hölderlin quote! One of my favourite poets (the poor soul). In the beginning of my ill-fated relationship, I felt like Hyperion towards Diotima, when she leans over a gorge to admire the view and he gently holds her for her safety's sake, yet his mind almost spins out of control with ecstasy because he gets to touch her. – I had no idea then just what an apt metaphor it was for a relationship with a pwBPD, only that ecstasy was soon replaced with fear and anguish.

I often thought of Goethe, too: O glücklich wer noch hoffen kann, / Aus diesem Meer des Irrtums aufzutauchen! / Was man nicht hat, das eben brauchte man, / Und was man hat, kann man nicht brauchen.

Decent description for both the relationship and for the first stages of healing. Wo aber Gefahr ist...

[Cromwell]

Gem I symphatsise im also congisant that most members who suffer here are female against male deceit. im an exception, my abuse was 99% psychological. I once had an image id be "for hire" and have a motorcycle club who would avenge women who have suffered from these twerps. but its a fom of triangulation, it doesnt solve the uderlying disease. they would just cling more on to the victim card.

youve been here helping me since I arrived here, (ages!) and has anything wrked, has a cure been found? I ask sincerely because im getting frustrated too, ive tried my best, ive found ways to cope but under the surface that pain never went away the other emotions like angry merely hekd down from being not self destructive,

im getting a bit fatigued, frustrated, deressed and lacking hope, seems im nt the olny one, thanks for sharing

[Sappho11]

Last weekend I took some students on an excursion; aforementioned friend came along, too, as he's a former student (stopped teaching him two years ago) and he's always been a part of these trips.

I really wish I hadn't invited him along. We were five people all in all, and the others were really put off by his behaviour. He only spoke to me when he was trying to bitch about something or other, and when we all had a snack at a café, the remaining four of us (including a ten-year-old child!) engaged in lively conversation (despite us all being introverts), while he just sat there in silence with his arms crossed, not participating and barely reacting. It was exactly what my ex used to do in the few group settings I witnessed him in. We went on to play some music, and while everyone had a good time at their respective skill levels, he took ages fiddling with his stuff in preparation and thus wasting playing time while everyone else awkwardly had to wait for him, he seemed insecure and gruff, and didn't really engage with anything anyone was doing.

It was triply curious:
1) He was the only one of the group who's actually specialising in that particular instrument we viewed, and he knew that this would be a chance to shine for him, but he just came across as incompetent, unprofessional and (at best) stiff;
2) he hadn't prepared anything, and I mean, ANYTHING, he hadn't even bothered to bring some basic sheet music which would have taken him 30 seconds to pack;
3) and worse yet, one of our bunch is an impresario who'd expressed an interest in commissioning an entire, full-length musical (!) by him (for good pay!) upon my recommendation (which I now regret), so my friend would have had every. bloody. interest to at least be courteous and make a basic good impression.

Instead, he did the opposite – by failing to make even the most basic preparations, showing zero musicianship, and worst of all by behaving like a complete a$$clown to everyone present. He didn't initiate any conversation and when spoken to, replied to everyone with a haughty, condescending tone of voice.

I used to have him under my wing because he's almost seven years my junior, but he's 25 now and what I used to disregard as "follies of youth" now more and more present themselves as actual flaws of character. As it stands, it looks as if I've thrown 5+ years of musical and 7+ years of personal mentorship into a black, bottomless pit of futility. He seems to remember nothing of our music lessons and definitely nothing which I've tried to teach him about social interaction.

[Sappho11]

This excursion showed me again that I really, really want to get away from him. I've been wondering whether this cold, largely one-sided "friendship" was part of the reason what pushed me into my one-sided relationship with my ex, who was at least able to fake warmth every now and again.

When I think back to the beginning of that friendship, I see a familiar pattern... he came to me as a student aged 18, a mere boy, completely enthralled with the music I was teaching. He put me on a pedestal at a point in my career when nobody else did, it was idealisation all the way. Soon enough I came to know him as a difficult person, but the dynamic shifted so subtly that I barely even noticed it, save for some outbursts of his which nearly killed first the teacher-student relationship, then the friendship. Somehow we always made up, and I foolishly soldiered on.

Last year when I had to move house, I even moved into a house right next to his, encouraged by him, despite HATING the neighbourhood. I started going to the gym... which he's now signed up for, too (I haven't been there since). He's encroached upon virtually every aspect of my life, while I'm largely oblivious to his. He's never one invited me to one of his concerts, not even as an audience member, while I've played (!) several with him; he's never introduced me to a single friend of his (interestingly, he only made attempts to do so to get me away from my ex); he breadcrumbs me with promised visits to his family, whom I like, but those visits factually never happen; he never voluntarily tells me (or his family) anything about his life except when we "interview" him; etc.

I also deeply and profoundly feel him that he's dragging me down, both musically and on a human level. The tragedy is, I believe he's doing none of this on purpose. But he seems to envy every accomplishment, musical or personal, and constantly talks down on everyone and everything with complete abandon. At the same time, I'm not even allowed to utter the slightest criticism or even have my own opinion about things that he likes. The few times I did utter my thoughts, no matter how diplomatically and nuanced I've tried to say things, it was instantly projected back to me how I always "talk in absolute terms", claim to be a "harbinger of truth" and so on and so forth. I just can't take it anymore.

It's like a platonic version of my ex, and I don't want that in my life anymore. He was my closest friend, but if tolerating all this BS is what it takes to remain in this friendship, I'd rather not have any close friends for the time being.

Recently I've started meeting new people and I'm always surprised at how caring and warm-hearted even strangers are in comparison, how conversations flow naturally, how you don't have to be on the edge of your seat trying to manage their feelings and reactions etc. I'm also looking to move house and move back to my home district where I feel safe and cared for, but it's a slow process.

[ILMBPDC]

It's like a platonic version of my ex, and I don't want that in my life anymore. He was my closest friend, but if tolerating all this BS is what it takes to remain in this friendship, I'd rather not have any close friends for the time being.

Sappho11, I think its great you are noticing and recognizing this . I feel the same way about not tolerating the BS anymore but I must admit that deep down I worry that because I am so lonely that I will start putting up with the BS again.

Recently I've started meeting new people and I'm always surprised at how caring and warm-hearted even strangers are in comparison, how conversations flow naturally, how you don't have to be on the edge of your seat trying to manage their feelings and reactions etc.

I've been doing some zoom social hours and a weekly trivia night on Sundays and I agree, its interesting to be around people where you don't feel like you are walking on eggshells.

[poppy2]

Hey Sappho,

Thanks a lot for sharing that Goethe quote! it's really great. And I can relate to how the sense of 'fantasy' in these relationships is very strong, I wouldn't say I could relate to Hyperion and Diotima exactly but I know exactly what you mean... I recognize that, over time, I retreated more and more into fantasy in order to protect myself from more and more incomprehensible or downright hurtful behaviors from her. Fantasy plays a part in any reality but being with a pwBPD collapses the healthy part by collapsing reality itself (was any of it real? answer: probably not. s***. breakdown.)

I'm also really glad to read how strongly you can recognize this pattern and free yourself from it. It definitely sounds like this guy has nothing to give you anymore. And I think that turnaround - wait, what is actually in this for me? is actually really crucial after forms of abuse. You know the kata-strophe was originally the 'turn' in the drama, a movement away from, a reversal, not necessarily negative at all (literally, Kata- 'down' and Strophe- 'to turn'... to overturn) so in that sense the 'catastrophe' of your ex is your own 'turn' away from other toxic people.

Which brings us again back to Hölderlin and the implicit redemption within danger  you know, I wasn't being so generous or big-minded when I wrote about meeting betrayal with trust... I honestly cannot imagine it any other way. It's necessary to heal my heart, and I'm going to try and make an installation about it when I'm stronger... even if she doesn't deserve it, I think I need to restore my belief in collectivity (and ultimately, for that word to mean anything it has to include my experience with her, albeit from a safe distance.) I need to feel my arms reach out again, even if the last time I did that it cost me unspeakably. And art is safer than real people sometimes

@ILMBPDC, I hear you on the loneliness front. I think a good resource not to fall for any more bullsh*t is to think of what your comrades on the forum would say... thats at least my plan. I was (still am) scared if I fall into any traps than at least there are people here who understand.

[poppy2]

oh sorry, I meant to add a PS.. there was a lot of description and 'purging' in your post I think (which is very healthy!) and I just wanted to pick up on one thing and say - breadcrumbing. How absolutely awful and infuriating is this? words without actions, it's a debasement of speech.

[crushedagain]

For me, it's "once bitten, twice shy." I have not dated since she left me. I had never met anyone like her, not even ever hearing about BPD prior to our relationship, but now find myself a little too alert for red flags. I've recently met a woman, but am proceeding cautiously. I am not trusting right now.

[Cromwell]

see trust as scalar.

trust her to meet up for a restaurant at time? no big deal if she breaks that

start sharing car finance agreements, mortgages and if shell stay around to look after the kids. Yea, give it time.

go out, have fun, enjoy and you will know when to assertively push back any boundary crosses (Assuming it even happens). these are not typical relationships.

[Gemsforeyes]

Gem I symphatsise im also congisant that most members who suffer here are female against male deceit. im an exception, my abuse was 99% psychological. I once had an image id be "for hire" and have a motorcycle club who would avenge women who have suffered from these twerps. but its a fom of triangulation, it doesnt solve the uderlying disease. they would just cling more on to the victim card.

youve been here helping me since I arrived here, (ages!) and has anything wrked, has a cure been found? I ask sincerely because im getting frustrated too, ive tried my best, ive found ways to cope but under the surface that pain never went away the other emotions like angry merely hekd down from being not self destructive,

im getting a bit fatigued, frustrated, deressed and lacking hope, seems im nt the olny one, thanks for sharing

[ILMBPDC]

@ILMBPDC, I hear you on the loneliness front. I think a good resource not to fall for any more bullsh*t is to think of what your comrades on the forum would say... thats at least my plan. I was (still am) scared if I fall into any traps than at least there are people here who understand.

Hey poppy2 - yeah, I hope that I am in a better place mentally, with better support now... I just can't help but worry I'm not that strong. Of course, it may be a sign that I am stronger than I think, that I'm worried about it.

breadcrumbing. How absolutely awful and infuriating is this? words without actions, it's a debasement of speech.

And this!  I have fallen for words without actions in my last 2 relationships.  Its absolutely horrible, especially since I value responsibility and doing what you say...and that's probably why I fall for it, because *I* would never say something and never do anything about it. With my BPD ex it was mainly disappointing and heartbreaking, he would talk about all these future plans that would never happen. With the previous ex (sociopath con man) he would just purposely lie to keep me going so he would try and cover his tracks of what he was doing. Either way, it sucks.

For me, it's "once bitten, twice shy." I have not dated since she left me. I had never met anyone like her, not even ever hearing about BPD prior to our relationship, but now find myself a little too alert for red flags. I've recently met a woman, but am proceeding cautiously. I am not trusting right now.

Hey crushedagain - I didn't date for 10 years after my sociopath con man ex and when I did, I ended up with BPD.  Honestly I don't even want to date but I don't want to be alone either. Its a conundrum. I also know that if I don't try again (eventually) I will end up alone and I think that scares me more.  At least we know what we don't want

[Gemsforeyes]

Cromwell- Sorry, I tried to post a reply under the excerpt and it wouldn’t take.  Said I ran out of time, so Cromwell, since it’s directed to you I’m going to retype it and put it under your latest thread.

This is a great thread.

Warmly,
Gems

[Ad Meliora]

And this!  I have fallen for words without actions in my last 2 relationships.  Its absolutely horrible, especially since I value responsibility and doing what you say...and that's probably why I fall for it, because *I* would never say something and never do anything about it.

It took me a long time to realize my BPDex was a "big talker", so I hear you ILMBPDC.  She was a great storyteller and that translated into fibs, yarns, truth-stretching, excuses, you name it.  I know Sappho has brought up the lack of action behind the words and I'm sure we all have lots of examples of this.

I'm reminded of the quote by Che Guevara, paraphrased here, "Words without the deeds to match are meaningless."

[Sappho11]

It took me a long time to realize my BPDex was a "big talker", so I hear you ILMBPDC.  She was a great storyteller and that translated into fibs, yarns, truth-stretching, excuses, you name it.  I know Sappho has brought up the lack of action behind the words and I'm sure we all have lots of examples of this.

I'm reminded of the quote by Che Guevara, paraphrased here, "Words without the deeds to match are meaningless."

Great quote.

I wonder how many of us actually ran into that knife. I know I willingly did. When my ex and I took that first long walk in the forest on the night where he confessed his love and told me he'd break up with his then-girlfriend, we actually had a strange conversation beforehand. He said something to the effect of "For all our similarities, you and I are different in one regard. What do you think is more important, good intention or action?" It struck me as odd because he wasn't the type to discuss abstract philosophical concepts. I said action was of course more important, and he gave me a resigned smile: "That's what I thought."

This discussion would come up in later arguments, when he'd hark back to it and say "Remember what I asked you on the first night? Intention is more important to me than action, and that's just equally as valid! Don't discount my point of view!" He'd often try to use it as a get-out-of-jail-free card, and it probably worked more often than not...

[Ad Meliora]

Intention more important than actions?  Wow.

--I intend to be a millionaire.  Aw crap, didn't work out.
--I intend to take out the trash.  Oh no, there goes the truck (lorry?) again. Actually I had to regularly remind my BPDx that Thursday was trash day and she needed to get the bin to the curb.  She had lived in her house about 3 years at that point.
--I intend to clean the toilet.  Aw crap.
--I intend to build you a rose garden.  Ah, it's too much work so I took a nap instead.  There's all those thorny things on the roses anyway, you didn't want that right?

One of my first visits with my BPDex we went for a walk too, by the Mississippi River along a bluff where there is a high bridge to watch the sunset.  On the way back I asked, "You must be an optimistic person, you're always smiling and happy."  She was taken aback and said, "No, I wouldn't say I'm an optimist at all--oouuu there's some fireflies, check it out!"  So then I was confused. 

Here's an even simpler (latin) phrase to quote if you end up bumping into your ex.
Acta Non Verba -- Deeds, not words.

[Sappho11]

So sorry poppy, I nearly missed your post!

Hey Sappho,

Thanks a lot for sharing that Goethe quote! it's really great. And I can relate to how the sense of 'fantasy' in these relationships is very strong, I wouldn't say I could relate to Hyperion and Diotima exactly but I know exactly what you mean... I recognize that, over time, I retreated more and more into fantasy in order to protect myself from more and more incomprehensible or downright hurtful behaviors from her. Fantasy plays a part in any reality but being with a pwBPD collapses the healthy part by collapsing reality itself (was any of it real? answer: probably not. s***. breakdown.)

Yes, exactly. My therapist said that constructing this narrative is a coping mechanism – unfortunately, the more skilled you are at handling Life in general, the better you are at doing this ("positive" thinking no matter what), which is why it's often the solid, stable, life-experienced people who get blindsided by these relationships.

I'm also really glad to read how strongly you can recognize this pattern and free yourself from it. It definitely sounds like this guy has nothing to give you anymore. And I think that turnaround - wait, what is actually in this for me? is actually really crucial after forms of abuse. You know the kata-strophe was originally the 'turn' in the drama, a movement away from, a reversal, not necessarily negative at all (literally, Kata- 'down' and Strophe- 'to turn'... to overturn) so in that sense the 'catastrophe' of your ex is your own 'turn' away from other toxic people.

That is amazing! I had no idea about the etymology. Thank you also for this beautiful thought.

Which brings us again back to Hölderlin and the implicit redemption within danger   you know, I wasn't being so generous or big-minded when I wrote about meeting betrayal with trust... I honestly cannot imagine it any other way. It's necessary to heal my heart, and I'm going to try and make an installation about it when I'm stronger... even if she doesn't deserve it, I think I need to restore my belief in collectivity (and ultimately, for that word to mean anything it has to include my experience with her, albeit from a safe distance.) I need to feel my arms reach out again, even if the last time I did that it cost me unspeakably. And art is safer than real people sometimes

Making art about it is probably a good idea – or even just thinking about it for yourself. I have a whole concept album in my head, music, album artwork and all – which I'm never going to make, because I don't want to immortalise my ex. Nope, just not going to happen. I'm not going to build him a herostratic monument. Posterity can forget this loser for all I care.

[Sappho11]

Intention more important than actions?  Wow.

--I intend to be a millionaire.  Aw crap, didn't work out.
--I intend to take out the trash.  Oh no, there goes the truck (lorry?) again. Actually I had to regularly remind my BPDx that Thursday was trash day and she needed to get the bin to the curb.  She had lived in her house about 3 years at that point.
--I intend to clean the toilet.  Aw crap.

You've summed up my ex's life with great humour and accuracy.

--I intend to build you a rose garden.  Ah, it's too much work so I took a nap instead.  There's all those thorny things on the roses anyway, you didn't want that right?

And our relationship. If he had ever formed an honest sentence, this is probably what he would have said.

One of my first visits with my BPDex we went for a walk too, by the Mississippi River along a bluff where there is a high bridge to watch the sunset.  On the way back I asked, "You must be an optimistic person, you're always smiling and happy."  She was taken aback and said, "No, I wouldn't say I'm an optimist at all--oouuu there's some fireflies, check it out!"  So then I was confused.  

Oh dear! That sounds vaguely familiar. "You always seem so jovial and cordial." "What, ME?" I should have believed him when he questioned my assessment.

Here's an even simpler (latin) phrase to quote if you end up bumping into your ex.
Acta Non Verba -- Deeds, not words.

Great idea. Now I have this fantasy about carrying a small folded card (nice, heavy paper) with me with those words printed and embossed inside them, in case I ever run into him. He might take "acta non verba" as an encouragement though; might be easier to just replace it with the local dialect variant of "Get lost".

[ILMBPDC]

Yes, exactly. My therapist said that constructing this narrative is a coping mechanism – unfortunately, the more skilled you are at handling Life in general, the better you are at doing this ("positive" thinking no matter what), which is why it's often the solid, stable, life-experienced people who get blindsided by these relationships.

Interesting. And if I think about it, pretty true on my end.
And some of the things Mr BPD liked about me was that I was solid, stable, and resilient (we had a whole conversation about resiliency once). Honestly, I think that subconsciously he tries to seek out people who have a life that he wants...he even admitted to me that with the woman he dated after me, he wanted her life (world traveler, many friends, speaks 5 languages).   Actually I remember him saying to me early on "I want that" when we were discussing my life - the house, the stability, the masters degree. IDK if this is true with all BPD or just him but it actually makes sense to me that they are rather unstable and are trying to assimilate into a life where they think they will be happier. 
Huh, I might make a post on this, I'm curious how prevalent it is amongst BPD