When words of validation fail

[Boogie74]

I often find it hard to show empathy and be validating-  not due to finding it hard to do it- but because J cuts me off telling me “that’s your go to!  You always say you can see how it’s frustrating, yada yada yada but it’s all bullPLEASE READ”

Or something along those lines.   “I’m sorry” doesn’t cut it, she’ll say!

Any ideas?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[NonnyMouse]

You have to experiment with your wording. Anything that sounds too therapist-talk will be spotted immediately. (TBH if anyone started a sentence to me with "Let me check that I understand what you are saying..." I would be annoyed too!) You get a negative response, just Medium Chill, and try something different next time. I find that a slow "Yeah" with a gentle nod is a good start!

But I wouldn't apologise for getting the wording wrong. It's not your fault first of all. And second anything that hints at them being at fault (which they sort of are) isn't going to end well!

[Boogie74]

You have to experiment with your wording. Anything that sounds too therapist-talk will be spotted immediately. (TBH if anyone started a sentence to me with "Let me check that I understand what you are saying..." I would be annoyed too!)

Never said that I said anything like “Let me check that I understand what you’re saying…”

Simply saying “That makes sense” or even “Ok” or “I would feel upset too” is met with “You always say that followed by an adolescent mimicking “Ok” several times is common.

[Hope4Joy]

I’m a work in progress and just thinking here with you. My spouse has also said things about sounding phony when I try to validate - to be honest it’s a new thing for me so I get that I may not have it down sincerely. He did also recently mention that he was listening to me talk with my girl friends when we were at a recent gathering and wondered why I didn’t have interactions with him like I do with them (let’s try to ignore the fact that they don’t talk to me like he does either), so my thought is what if we pay attention to how we validate other people in our lives - because our spouses may be paying attention to that too - and if we use the same style then perhaps it will sound more natural when we validate our spouse?

[Cat Familiar]

I’ve had difficulty *thinking* about being validating. So often it comes out clunky, formulaic, or repetitive. Best if I just focus on *not invalidating*.  https://www.bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-dont-be-invalidating

When you get the not invalidating habit as a natural response, validating becomes much easier, automatic, and natural.

[thankful person]

I’m still figuring this out too. What I find so frustrating is my wife’s go to response of telling me I’m lying to her. For example, I say, “I’m so sorry you’re in so much pain..” and she’ll say, “NO YOU’RE NOT!” Also if she’s in one of her moods and I say, “I love you” then she’ll say, “NO YOU DON’T” or sometimes just “NO”. Sorry I don’t have any advice, just wanted to share my own experiences. I’m also aware of JADE and the advice to avoid it but sometimes I just can’t help myself.

[babyducks]

hello Boogie -

For me, validation is a skill.   Like playing golf or music.   The more I do it, the better I become at it.   I didn't find it to be intuitive at all.

Like Cat Familiar mentioned being invalidating (even inadvertently)  out weighs the ability to be validating by a factor of about 10 to 1.   according to the experts.

what I learned about validation was that it was not possible to validate my way out of an argument or a dysregulation.   at that point the validation was too late.    pwBPD (and most people really) do better in a highly validating environment when its applied consistently.   and not in the middle of an emotionally tense moment.

finding the validation target is often difficult.   and not what we think it is.    when my partner was upset and starting to vent if I said "I would feel upset too"  that would push her into a dysregulation because she felt patronized, and placated.   Especially if it wasn't true.   My partner did get upset about things that wouldn't have bothered me at all and she knew it. 

Simply saying “That makes sense” or even “Ok” or “I would feel upset too” is met with “You always say that followed by an adolescent mimicking “Ok” several times is common.

anything that came near to the "There, There, Dear"   was best avoided for my partner.    I found that she did better with validating questions.   what she wanted was space to vent.    what I wanted was for the dysregulation to be over.    a validating question is something like "what do you think should happen here?"   

and that's where it gets even trickier... for my partner she wanted to vent and she wanted me to FIX her problem.   often I didn't think it was a problem or I didn't think it was my problem to fix.     then I had to take validation to the next step.     ask if she wanted help trouble shooting how she could fix or respond to whatever was going on.    often she thought the problem was me.   I often got "you aren't trying hard enough".    which was a much more difficult conversation to have.    I remember one conversation at the kitchen table where she told me it wasn't enough for me to say I understood that she was upset but that I needed to do something about it.    and I replied that I didn't think that was true in this case, that it just was what it was.    this was opening the door to some pretty high level communication skills.    way beyond the simple validation tools.

make any sense?