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Author Topic: Now she wants a puppy… and a baby.. and loads of new clothes…  (Read 1509 times)
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« Reply #30 on: October 11, 2021, 04:24:36 PM »

Not Wendy, thank you again for sharing your story and thoughts. I really want my children to grow to be mentally and emotionally healthy and I want to show them and help them learn. I am ready to make these changes! Did your dad ever learn about bpd and caretaking etc? Or was it something you discovered way after your childhood? He sounds like a wonderful man I’m sure he tried so hard to keep your mother happy though not always in ways that worked for the family.

I tell you these things because 20 years of perspective can show you what matters. My sister's wants were not real wants - they were trying to fill her emotional hole. I feel very sad for them both, trying to do that, and never succeeding. Have you tried therapy? Boundaries are the key. They are hard, but only in the short term. In the long term, they could save your marriage, or at least save your sanity.
Karaoke thank you. I’m am completely aware that the things my wife thinks will make her happy, will not make her happy. Another example of this is that she is obsessed with going on holiday. Which we haven’t done since kids and covid. But the holidays were always a massive disappointment to her. Last year we had both planned surprise trips for each other’s birthdays but it all had to be cancelled because of Covid. But I heard no end of how rubbish my idea had been, while hers I think would have been extremely stressful given we had a five month old breast feeding and my trip was much more practical. As for having more children, I think one thing that encourages me is the larger support network they will have in each other, along with the fact that I personally will get more alone time with each of them.

  I know I don't always look forward to the weekends like I used to.  Sometimes work is easier...
Mitten I totally get this too. It’s a sad life when you’re caught in an argument with your partner, thinking, “how many hours till I get to go to work?”
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« Reply #31 on: October 11, 2021, 04:39:57 PM »

 I really want my children to grow to be mentally and emotionally healthy and I want to show them and help them learn. I am ready to make these changes!  

One of the ways in which you help your children do this is by consistently making wise choices...   They will be much more impressed by what they "see" you do...and NOT do, as opposed to the things you tell them to do and not do.

So....I would challenge you to think about decisions you are contemplating and decisions you have made.

If you mind is saying "I'm doing this because I want this that or the other or perhaps because my pwBPD wants (fill in the blank)."  I would encourage you to be deliberate about using a different standard for decision making.  

Initial thoughts?

Best,

FF
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« Reply #32 on: October 11, 2021, 04:49:53 PM »

Hi FF,
I know that I want to give those last two embryos a chance of being our children. Fate has led to their creation and if they survive then it is meant to be. I am determined to be a better role model as a parent and also believe this will help my wife. I am already noticing positive changes in her behaviour due to my not getting so upset by her. I think the issue will be more when she wants to undergo ivf again because I’m not at all sure about this for various reasons. She has always talked about wanting a big family.
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« Reply #33 on: October 11, 2021, 05:03:20 PM »


I was  more interested in your thoughts on wisdom, vice "want".

Is that uncomfortable for you to contemplate?

Best,

FF
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« Reply #34 on: October 11, 2021, 05:11:47 PM »

I was  more interested in your thoughts on wisdom, vice "want".

Is that uncomfortable for you to contemplate?

Best,

FF
Yes I’ve already said I don’t think it would be thought to be a wise choice to have more children. But please consider that I have worked with children for over twenty years, specialising in working with children with severe behavioural issues. I do see myself as a good parent and I do think this somewhat balances out the situation with my wife’s bpd. I compare my situation to other families and I know that many children are not born of wise choices. I grew up wishing I was dead and my goal for my children in being emotionally and mentally healthy is that they do not feel such things and that they would feel glad to be alive and be part of our family.
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« Reply #35 on: October 11, 2021, 06:48:37 PM »

  my goal for my children in being emotionally and mentally healthy is that they do not feel such things and that they would feel glad to be alive and be part of our family.

Is it within your control to make sure that your children grow up emotionally and mentally healthy?

Something I find interesting...and I'm interested in your thoughts on this.  I asked about making wise choices...I did NOT ask about making wise choices about having more children. 

It appears to me your response focuses on one issue.

I'm curious.

Best,

FF
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« Reply #36 on: October 12, 2021, 04:56:32 AM »

I am not sure the genetics on this is very strong.

Studies do suggest a genetic component.  a genetic predisposition.    data suggests that BPD does tend to run in families, with nature/nurture both playing a role.
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« Reply #37 on: October 12, 2021, 05:22:01 AM »

Broken Person, I would encourage you to explore why you felt so unworthy as a child with a therapist. You mentioned your wife doesn't want you to see one on your own, but emotional health is important. What would you do if you had a sore throat and fever- and your wife didn't want you to go to the health center to get antibiotics? Would that make sense to you? Would you allow her to stop you from taking care of your health? You have the right to take care of both your physical health and emotional health.

Your wife is likely afraid that if you went to therapy, you would say something about her and then decide to leave her, but this is personal to you, it's about you, not her.

Many of us here grew up with some kind of family dysfunction, and a BPD parent is one kind, but it doesn't have to be only a BPD parent. Family dysfunction and abuse can come from different causes. It sounds to me like your childhood was very sad and took a toll on your own self worth. This can influence how we relate to others as adults, romantically and otherwise.

One way is feeling we don't deserve to be treated kindly, or deserve to be loved. So we choose others who are not able to love us. We choose people who we can try to "fix" in a sort of backwards way because we give them what we wish someone would give to us. We learned as children that our value depends on if we can make other people happy and we keep trying this in hopes we might succeed and be happy ourselves. We try to be what they want us to be, in hopes they may love us and in doing so, we don't really know who we are.

They always say on airplanes during the safety speech to put your oxygen mask on first before assisting others. This is a hard concept for people who grew up believing they had to take care of someone else without concern for themselves- that it was somehow not ok to consider your own needs. But for us to truly be of help to anyone else, we need to also have self love and self care and this may have to be learned if we didn't learn to do that. You have intrinsic self worth that does not depend on if you can make someone else happy.

You say you want to raise emotionally healthy children. You are correct in that you are the parent who is most likely to be the more stable one of the two of you. I agree that it is possible to mitigate some of the effects of a disordered parent by being the stable one. I am grateful that my father was that parent for me, but he was also co dependent and an enabler to my mother, which took most of his attention and impacted him emotionally. She too always wants something else- not a puppy but new clothes, or vacation, or something- and he tried constantly to meet this need, but it wasn't possible to meet her emotional needs with material things. We also as children tried our best to make BPD mom happy but we could not because her feelings were about her, not us, and we had little impact on them (other to avoid upsetting us by walking on eggshells).

I hope you take steps to realize that you have self worth and that you have every right to take care of your emotional health.
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« Reply #38 on: October 12, 2021, 04:21:13 PM »

You say that your wife was diagnosed with BPD but now claims to be "recovered." It is obvious from her behavior that she is NOT recovered.

 I know it is a risky conversation to have with her, but what reaction would she have to your telling her that you are seeing BPD traits emerging again -- that your co-dependency traits are being triggered, and that you would like DBT therapy for both of you to work toward a family stability that is best for growing your family?

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« Reply #39 on: October 12, 2021, 05:16:43 PM »

FF, I thought you were getting at the fact that it wouldn’t be a wise choice for us to have more kids.
Not Wendy, I am not ready to choose therapy yet but I am slowly learning and recognising what needs to change and I hope it is the first step.
Gagrl, my wife is a proud recovery warrior, she has battled ptsd and nightmares from her horrific past, self harm and eating disorders. She is happy now, being a mother and feeling mentally and physically healthy. She goes through phases where I can’t do anything right but at the moment is feeling very positive. If I were to mention bpd traits or anything like it, she would be extremely angry with me which would most likely be hiding the denial and devastation underneath. I can’t do that to her right now. To tell her I think she’s not recovered… the thought is so deeply upsetting to me because it would be so upsetting to her. But my children come first. If I judge it to be damaging to them in future then I will have to make such decisions.
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« Reply #40 on: October 13, 2021, 09:32:19 AM »

Studies do suggest a genetic component.  a genetic predisposition.    data suggests that BPD does tend to run in families, with nature/nurture both playing a role.

The new book, "Raising Resilient Children with a BPD/Narcissist" has a quote from newer study.  Unfortunately I have the audio version so it's not easy for me to reference.  But I want to say it was somewhere in the 90% of personality disorders are inherited.  I know it's dangerous quoting something without having the actual quote... but my point is that this strong genetic component was pretty disappointing to hear.  My uBPDw had family trauma.  Both of her parents died in separate incidences when she was little and then she was raised in an invalidating household.  So I assumed it was a combo of her predisposition to being emotional unstable and her childhood trauma causing BPD.  But now it seems studies may be showing that BPD is more inherited than once thought, which sucks for my kids and potential future kids, even if I raise them "perfectly".
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« Reply #41 on: October 13, 2021, 10:34:28 AM »

I think what is confusing is that PD's are a spectrum. In my family tree, I can identify 2 that are probably at the severe end of BPD- and that's over 3 generations with several members. One of them is my mother and another one is a distant cousin of hers. Then another one in her generation was difficult but I don't know if it was BPD or not.

However, there are also family members with NPD traits, but not to the point where their lives are seriously impacted by them. They would not meet diagnostic criteria. Then there's the nurture vs nature part as these could also be learned behaviors from growing up in the same family.

I think it's not possible to predict without being able to identify specific genes.
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« Reply #42 on: October 14, 2021, 04:30:04 AM »

I think it's not possible to predict without being able to identify specific genes.

Two genes—DPYD and PKP4—have been identified as increasing a person's risk of developing BPD.  However, these genes are linked to schizophrenia and bipolar disorder risk, too.

which is not to say that environment does not play a role.    it clearly does.

Additionally, It is also thought that structural and functional changes in the brain are linked to BPD.
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« Reply #43 on: October 14, 2021, 04:43:08 AM »

Thanks babyducks-
I think trauma can play a role too. And family dynamics. But genetics run in families too which might also be a contributor to extreme behaviors in families. I didn't know there were already some genes they have found.
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« Reply #44 on: October 14, 2021, 06:31:28 AM »


I think trauma can play a role too.  

Yep...in my case a natural disaster forced us off our farm for 6 months or so.  I went one way mentally and my wife went the other (into paranoia).  I answered with "facts" which invalidated when I should have answered with validation and or not answering but listening.

So...my wife has a family component (which certainly could have genetics).  She is the "nicest" of all the women.   The same family that might have given her genetics also gave her a consistent invalidating environment (very polite description).

Then we have 15 years or so of military marriage.

Then natural disaster (trauma).

Then several years of environment of invalidation from the FF...

Quite a recipe.  

Best,

FF

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« Reply #45 on: October 14, 2021, 06:57:30 AM »

FF- you made a good point. Although we've gone a bit off track of the original post, I want to mention invalidation vs enabling. One common theme that persists with my BPD mother is that she feels invalidated, even if we are doing something nice for her. I think this comes from her family of origin. They tend to have NPD traits but are functional people and so I don't think they'd be diagnosed. Yet, one feels invisible around them. The way they relate is invalidating. I don't think they mean to be this way- I don't think they know how to be validating.

I can tell my mother is insecure around her family, even though they are loyal to her.

My father both enabled and invalidated my mother. I don't think he meant the invalidation part. He would give in to her requests quickly, in order to avoid confrontation and gain some peace, but this kind of caretaking isn't only about meeting her wishes, it was also to meet his wishes for some peace. I don't blame him for that, it's tough, but emotionally it isn't validating.

So back to Broken Person's wife and her requests? Wanting a puppy or a child may be due to emotionally wanting something cute and loving to make her feel better. It's an emotional need. Rather than to produce the puppy or the child ( unless you truly desire to have that ) - maybe say " I understand. Puppies and babies are so cute. Snuggling a pup or a baby feels wonderful" and then let that go. She may feel validated by that.
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« Reply #46 on: October 14, 2021, 09:26:21 AM »

It's an emotional need. 

Yep...I encourage Broken Person to also look for other ways to "satisfy" that need after validation.

A common theme with pwBPD is if they don't get EXACTLY what they "want" or "need", then they are COMPLETELY lost...TOTALLY rejected...etc etc.

I think the best thing we can do for them is model healthy behavior and making wise choices when faced with emotional needs, instead of trying to explain to them what they need to do differently.

Most of the time there are alternatives...

Best,

FF
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« Reply #47 on: October 14, 2021, 05:17:43 PM »

I did not realise there was such a genetic component to bpd. My wife experienced severe trauma and abuse as a young child and I absolutely can see that as being the root cause. I remember saying to her when we first met, that with her continual discomfort, it was like she had had to put up with too much at a young age, and therefore her tolerance for absolutely everything was completely used up. That said, her dad is a “nice guy” but with his own anger issues and dark secrets… and my wife’s two older sisters have been completely disowned by him, one for getting pregnant as a teen and the other for choosing to spend Christmas at her boyfriend’s house as a teen. He says, “they’re dead to me” and has never met their kids. Oh and he also disowned his own mother, again a story that makes little sense. No one even knows if she’s alive now. So my wife grew up in this strange family as well as suffering horrific sexual abuse. Her mum still sees the other sisters and grandkids. Her mum is also nice on the surface but I find it strange that she didn’t get in touch for months after our baby was born, apparently it’s the way my wife likes it (and why she finds my mum overbearing) but I find it odd that you wouldn’t check in with your kids, especially after having a traumatic birth and sick baby.
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« Reply #48 on: October 14, 2021, 09:22:56 PM »

https://www.verywellhealth.com/is-borderline-personality-disorder-genetic-5191970

Yes, there is a strong genetic component related to BPD. Environmental factors also play a significant role.
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