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Author Topic: Who has gone NC or LC? What does that look like for you?  (Read 943 times)
Mtnlvr8

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« on: October 10, 2021, 11:04:58 PM »

I feel like I’m finally in a place where I’m open to going NC or at least very LC. The more I start to protect myself and avoid the conversations and situations where I get hurt and/or pulled into JADE ing, the more I like this new reality where my emotions are not so tied to her ups and downs and whether she is happy with me or not. I’m not rushing into any permanent decision, but it feels good to be able to imagine being ok with not having much of a relationship because it is so freeing.

I am curious about others who are NC or LC with their pwbpd. How did you come to that decision? What does it look like for you? Are you affected by people who don’t understand the situation wondering why you’ve cut off contact or even giving unsolicited advice on how to fix things?

Thanks in advance to anyone who is open to sharing.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2021, 11:10:12 PM by Mtnlvr8 » Logged
yamada
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« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2021, 12:59:27 AM »

For me it was when It really dawned on my that I wasn't the problem she was.. And that she had been making me the problem for years and that I couldn't trust her to NOT try to manipulate or use all the behaviours she uses..
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Tillyjinx

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« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2021, 01:13:46 AM »

My attempts to go NC have resulted in what is now very LC and I have found it to be beneficial if not easy.  I wanted to, on my first attempt, as far as I saw it, do it right. I wrote a respectful letter to my elderly mother with BPD explaining that I loved her but would be stepping out of the equation and gently explained why. I also sent copies to my siblings, who all lived abroad. In hindsight it was a mistake as she reacted with derision and saw it as a challenge to shame me into submission with the help of many flying monkeys. The siblings who had little other than phone contact with her, thought my actions unnecessary. Medical emergencies with falls pulled me back. My health suffered, no matter what I did (and it was lots) it was never enough. Never a thank you. There was always drama. I was losing the will to live and so went to counseling. It helped lots especially to actually understand that I had choices. This time, with the benefit of hindsight, I tiptoed out of the picture.  As I have underlying conditions and she was elderly, Covid 19 fortuitously “kept” us apart. The flying monkeys who stepped in to help her saw the reality of her behavior and left me alone. I continue to pay the odd bill for her and do a grocery shop here and there but stay away from direct contact with her.  If she rings I can now take the call (before I would feel terror) but over time this has lessened as I am of little use to her.

The matter is further complicated by a sister with BPD who now lives with her (they can’t stand each other) and my adult son, her golden child, who I suspect also has BPD. He currently lives with me and despite issues, we are not knocking on the door of NC yet. Every relationship and experience is different.

They are all undiagnosed, have no need for counseling and so the problem is mine. Counseling has helped me understand that the only person I can control or change is me. I carried fear,  obligation and guilt on my back 24/7 and they weighed heavily. Now I practice gratitude, meditation and can set boundaries.  The guilt has eased greatly. I guess what I am trying to say is that for me, the decision to go very low to no contact in this relationship has improved my life greatly in conjunction with working on myself. It was difficult at first but has gotten easier over time. I wish you peace and contentment in whatever path you take.
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beatricex
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« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2021, 09:43:02 PM »

hi Mtnlvr8,
I am also low to no contact.  The only reason I'm not claiming no contact is my Mom will show up at my house again.  Guaranteed.

What made me decide?  The constant questioning of whether I was the one with a serious mental illness.  Breaking down, multiple times, in despair.  Knowing that the nightmares would not stop until I acknowledged that my mental pain is real, it is mine to own, and it is mine and only mine to fix.  No, my mom didn't really physically abuse me (if so, that was minimal), but the constant and real betrayal as my mother, the constantly working behind my back against me, the total oblivion to her justifications and continual manipulations, and turning all of my siblings and probably my Dad against me - made me slowly...s-l-o-w-l-y face the very real pain I am in.

I sometimes tell my husband that I wish I had been physically abused, because other people can relate to that and you can show them the bruises and they will empathize.  This disease is so eroding because you can never prove it to others or yourself (until many years and therapy and enlightenment pass) that it is really happening. 

Coming out of denial, I feel like a whole person for once in my life.  It is nice discovering who I am.  Not who my mother defines me as, but who I think I am, and who I can be and who I'm going to become (me, my genuine and real self).

good luck

keep posting here, I get it

b
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zachira
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« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2021, 08:39:16 AM »

I was low contact with my mother with BPD until she passed away. I am in the process of going low contact/no contact with several family members. I recommend learning everything you can about flying monkeys, the people who will do everything they can to make you the bad guy in this situation and will continue to enable your mother's unacceptable behaviors. I also would caution for you not to share that you are going low contact/no contact with anybody, as this will likely trigger your mother and her flying monkeys to do even worse things to you, cruel treatment that you may never have imagined possible. From my perspective, it is all about learning to have healthy boundaries with everybody around you, including people you have just met. As you become more comfortable having healthy boundaries with others, you will find that the more dysfunctional people are just not that interested in you anymore or not like before, and you will attract more and more people who are kind and respectful to be in your inner circle of relationships.
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Oh Brother

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« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2021, 12:41:06 AM »

...JADE ing...

I am curious about others who are NC or LC with their pwbpd. How did you come to that decision? What does it look like for you? Are you affected by people who don’t understand the situation wondering why you’ve cut off contact or even giving unsolicited advice on how to fix things?

I've gone NC.  The decision was easy for me.  My uBPDs angered me so much with her behavior (and occasionally depressed me) that I decided I had no interest in interacting with her anymore, and it was also a self-defense maneuver.  For my own mental health, I can't spend my time and energy dealing with her dysfunction.  If ever she's willing to help herself by seeking appropriate treatment, I will change my approach.

What it looks like for me is that I don't initiate contact with her.  If she contacts me I ignore her.  If we're forced to be in each other's presence (physically or virtually) I ignore her.  I don't address her, and I don't respond to her unless she addresses me directly (and then I give only a terse matter-of-fact response).

So far I am not affected by people wondering why I've gone NC.  If that day ever comes, I will speak my truth.  My uBPDs has damaged our relationship beyond repair unless and until she is willing to enter treatment.

PS.  What is JADE ing?
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In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is.  --Yogi Berra
Mtnlvr8

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« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2021, 11:17:35 AM »

PS.  What is JADE ing?

Thank you all for your stories. Keep 'em coming!

JADE is to justify, argue, defend, explain...the things we do in most relationships that lead to some resolution or productive conversation, but with bpd people only escalates the situation and leaves us frustrated.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2021, 11:25:03 AM by Mtnlvr8 » Logged
Mtnlvr8

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« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2021, 11:24:22 AM »

I sometimes tell my husband that I wish I had been physically abused, because other people can relate to that and you can show them the bruises and they will empathize.  This disease is so eroding because you can never prove it to others or yourself (until many years and therapy and enlightenment pass) that it is really happening. 

Coming out of denial, I feel like a whole person for once in my life.  It is nice discovering who I am.  Not who my mother defines me as, but who I think I am, and who I can be and who I'm going to become (me, my genuine and real self).


I know what you mean about wishing there was some physical sign of the abuse. It's so hard, especially because my sister is very good at coming off as normal and well adjusted with other people. I have always doubted my own perspective and so it is hard when others don't understand- they often say things like "have you tried..." "would...help?" and I'm back to wondering if I should do more. Even with those like my husband who say they believe me, but have yet to experience that side of her themselves...I wonder if they really believe me sometimes.

I also relate to what you said about finally discovering yourself. I feel like I am at the very start of that and it feels freeing and exciting!

I also want to thank the people who talked about not needing to announce that you are going NC or LC...I think this makes a lot of sense.
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Oh Brother

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« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2021, 11:30:25 AM »

JADE is to justify, argue, defend, explain...the things we do in most relationships that lead to some resolution or productive conversation, but with bpd people only escalate the situation and leaves us frustrated.

Yes I realized some three years ago that my uBPDs is incapable of rational discussion of differences of opinion or position on an issue.  She's just 100% emotionally intensive / high conflict.  Her memory of events is emotional memory.

As I wrote in https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=350139.msg13149640#msg13149640, "She doesn't accept accountability for her actions.  She projects.  She blames others for her plight.  She has to be right regardless of cost.  She twists what people say.  She manipulates.  ...  She is unable to regulate her emotions.  ...  She plays the victim.  She increases the scope of arguments and never lets them die.  She doesn't apologize."

In addition, she DARVOs - Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender (see https://shrink4men.com/2011/01/19/presto-change-o-darvo-deny-attack-and-reverse-victim-and-offender/).

So I've given up attempting to work out any differences with my uBPDs.  She's irrational, and incapable of having a reasoned conversation.  It's just a non-starter.
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In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is.  --Yogi Berra
Oh Brother

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« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2021, 11:36:43 AM »

my sister is very good at coming off as normal and well adjusted with other people

Exactly.  This is a characteristic of the disorder; in my lay opinion, a form of splitting.  pwBPD show their good side to some people, and their bad side to other people.  I see this in my uBPDs.

I also want to thank the people who talked about not needing to announce that you are going NC or LC...I think this makes a lot of sense.

In my case, I haven't "announced" my NC approach to my uBPDs; I'm just doing it.
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In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is.  --Yogi Berra
karaokequeen

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« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2021, 10:31:29 PM »

I'm NC with my BPD sister right now because she repeatedly violated my clearly stated boundaries after a day-long argument. I told her I would be happy to have a phone conversation where she doesn't blame me for everything in her life and doesn't verbally abuse me and demand that I apologize repeatedly for something I already apologized for. And that I'm not doing ANY of it over text. You can guess how that went. First, she hung up on me. Then a bunch of rage texts, then some f-yous, then I ruined her life. After blocking her on text, the emails started where she tells me I'm sick and evil. Oh and I ruined her life. So I blocked her on email too. Interestingly, she's not blocked on phone  calls, but she's not interested in actually talking or resolving anything, so NC it is.
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« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2021, 11:07:18 PM »

This is a very helpful thread. I haven’t met many people who know how to deal with it and have experienced life with someone with BPD.
Logically NC makes sense. But there’s always some guilt there bc you know they are ill.
This post in particular made me realize. It doesn’t matter. They can get help if they want to repair relationships.
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podsnapG

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« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2021, 03:47:23 PM »

This is a very interesting thread — it’s really good to read everyone’s experience and perspective here. I hope you get some clarity, Mtnlovr8.  With affection (click to insert in post) I’ve been NC with my bpdSIL and enmeshed Bro for about a year and a half (except for one or two texts Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post)) I finally finished settling my mom’s estate as executor, and used the lawyer as the point of contact when I realized I could get nowhere with them. My last task was to put some of my mom’s things in a storage unit for my brother and nephew to retrieve. (I thought this was a good, NC way to handle it, but of course, it got twisted around and I am even worse in their eyes now!) After my brother’s last FOGgy text, in which he called me “weird and Bette Davis like”, Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) I blocked him on my phone. I’d already blocked SIL on FB and phone, so now it’s complete. My nephew can still contact me if he pleases, but I don’t expect it. If possible, thinking of NC as a temporary measure might be good, but in my case I think it’s permanent, as my BPDSIL will never get help, and bro will never see clearly. 

It has been alternately sad, angering and freeing. Every few months, I reread my journals and old texts, and read the forum here, to remind myself that their behavior really did happen, and that I don’t want it in my life. The freedom from eggshell walking and dreading interaction with them is wonderful, but it’s tempered by a sadness at their pain and the loss of family. It’s been a long road to accepting the situation, but I’m starting to move on. I understand the battle with guilt! That’s a tough one.
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Methuen
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« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2021, 09:17:05 AM »

Hi mtnlvr,

I’m curious - how old is your mom?

Except for the years I was at university, I have always lived in the same town and within 10 min of my mom.  

I could never have anticipated what that would mean as she aged.  

I don’t  know what your situation is, but my advice would be to move far away while you still can  ( some times people are lucky to have job opportunity transfers but maybe that is not your situation).   After university I got a job back in  my home town, met my H and was very comfortable living in my community where I had contacts, friends,  my job, and raised two children .  I also had my beloved mountains. Had I known then what I know now, H and I could have taken job transfers, and made a new life.  

As it is now, I keep getting pulled in to close contact with her medical emergencies.  They are frequent and intense. She is 85, fragile physically and emotionally, and I am an only child.  Ive been doing this for about 18 years since my dad became ill with dementia, and died a few years later.  There is no freedom, only servitude to her needs which are acute and demanding.  If I didn’t live here, she would have been in assisted living years ago and I would have a life.  She qualifies for assisted living but of course refuses it.

She lives independently, with our help, and also the help of a lot of friends she has enlisted. For years she FOGEd us relentlessly to live with us.  All whilst also being abusive. We held our boundary.  She lives 6 min away, but right now she is in the bedroom next door so I can give her antibiotic eye drops all night long to prevent blindness from an acute eye infection resulting from a bad macular  degeneration shot.  I was in my bedroom yesterday morning with the door closed  getting dressed, and she pushed the door open with her cane.  No boundaries.  No filters.  No space.  

My advice is to run.  Move.  Create space. That’s the only way I could successfully be NC in my situation.  Your situation may be completely different.

That is just my hindsight for my situation.

« Last Edit: October 30, 2021, 09:33:45 AM by Methuen » Logged
zachira
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« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2021, 10:19:36 AM »

Methuen,
Some really great advice and advice I wished certain members of my family had followed before their disordered parents became elderly and placed intolerable burdens on their children who lived nearby.

For sure, we can anticipate that the bad behaviors will only get worse with time, and the boundaries we have neglected to set will make things worse. Disordered people like the ones we are discussing in this thread, are two faced and polarized. They can be nice for years, and then suddenly hate someone who was at one time their best friend. This sudden dumping of toxic feelings on another person can be due to many factors including things suddenly going south for the disordered person like being in bad health or getting some kind of healthy push back from another person. A good test of whether a person is safe to be around is how they respond when another person says no to them, disagrees with them, tries to establish a healthy boundary.
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Methuen
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« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2021, 11:04:45 AM »

Excerpt
Are you affected by people who don’t understand the situation wondering why you’ve cut off contact or even giving unsolicited advice on how to fix things?

Yes.  I’m definitely affected by people who don’t, and can’t, understand the situation.  The only people who could possibly understand this are people who have a pwbpd in their life.  I haven’t met one of those in my community.

I’ve never gone NC for an extended period  of time.  Two months was the longest before being pulled in by another medical emergency. But I’ve had people call me and suggest or tell me what i should do.  I can only speculate that she was behind it.  It leaves debris.  Well meaning people don’t have a clue.  

I am certain that her medical issues are due to stored trauma in her body.  I also have more medical issues than many  people my age, and I can’t help but wonder if this is from the trauma of having a bpd mom within minutes of me all my life.  I just always tried to do the right thing and help her.  

The only answer I have is to move far away.  It hurts me to say that.  Its a horrible thing to have to say, and I feel bad for saying it.  

Having said all that, I’m happy to also acknowledge that she has friends (some of whom ive known since childhood) who have stepped in to “take a shift” of giving her eye drops.  I get about 5 hrs of respite daily in this current crisis.  It is the first time I have had respite in one of her medical crises.  So people have eyes, are good people, and do help.  But they have no clue about the bpd , or the dynamic of the relationship, or the pain caused by it.


« Last Edit: October 30, 2021, 11:11:57 AM by Methuen » Logged
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