Confused and Angry

[Kula]

Hi Everyone,

I recently found this site and have done a bit of reading. I thought I might gain some insight but I'm even more confused. I desperately need to get some help for myself but I don't know where or how. I've spent years in therapy but have made minimal progress. I think I might need to find the right fit but I don't know how to do that.

I'm constantly in conflict. Part of me is convinced that my closest family members have problems with Narcissism and BPD. Yet they're all quite functional... doctors, lawyers, teachers, therapists, artists. None believe they have any issues despite a history of mental health problems in the family. There is the schizophrenic institutionalized uncle, the evil Narcissist Grandad, the briefly institutionalized nice Grandpa, the suicide... But everybody else thinks they're great. I see so much dysfunction, codependency and misrepresentation of reality. But generally everybody plays along.


 I've had lifelong depression and anxiety. I'm single, make no money, hate my job. I don't seek out friendships or relationships anymore. I'm becoming a hermit. In the past decade I've  been cutting family members out of my life because I eventually can't repress my anger at how they're  behaving. So maybe I'm the one who has it all wrong? Am I just sensitive and depressed? They seem to think so.

I think my Mom is BPD but I'm not positive.

Growing up she would curl up in a fetal position and wail to get sympathy from us. She drove halfway across the country to drop us off at our Dads' without telling him she was coming and leaving us there. She would throw things at me. Food was a favorite. She would kick me out of the house. She would get in fights with strangers. I remember being so embarrassed by some of the things she did. One time she threw a tantrum because she didn't have enough money to pay for our ice cream cones. It was the cashiers fault. She took us shoplifting with her. At times she cheated and lied to get things she needed. She encouraged us to do the same if it suited her needs. Things were so chaotic. We were ALWAYS late. She never picked us up on time and it was scary.  She left me at school when I told her preschool was closed. How do you not notice it's closed? For a short while, as teens,  she made us take turns sleeping in bed with her. We moved all the time. I went to maybe 11 schools before I graduated high school. I don't actually remember all the places I've lived. She was incredibly irresponsible and blamed everybody else for things that went wrong. The dog died because she didn't have gas to get her to the vet. That's the gas stations fault. And every time we drove by that station she would go on and on. Endless minor and major disasters. She did the same stupid things over and over and over and over and then freaked out when bad things happened as if there was no way she could have predicted a negative outcome. Her temper scared me and made me angry. Her hysterics scared me and made me angry. She regularly cried in public looking for sympathy from strangers and acquaintances. Some of the things she did made me really uncomfortable and felt like attention seeking behavior, like all the sudden deciding she was comfortable with her body and then parading around nude in our hotel room despite our obvious discomfort.

She's in her early 70's now and her most outrageous behavior seems to have lessened. However, I keep my distance and avoid activities that may cause me a problem. I suspect she's been self-medicating for decades. She was a medical doctor and literally had a room in her house filled with boxes of medication samples. After she retired she started drinking and self-medicating. Amazingly, after about 8 years of drinking, she checked herself into detox. She said drinking during the day was making it hard to get stuff done. No mention of toll on family members.

Yet she doesn't seem nearly as bad as some of your Moms. She would frequently ask if she could do anything to make us feel better when we were upset. Sure she wasn't actually willing to do anything other than buy us stuff or cook us food, nothing that might actually make things better. She would never straight out say some of the manipulative things I read that your Moms say. It was all much more subtle.

I'm so confused about the concept of empathy. She loves to buy us stuff. It makes her happy. Even if I tell her over and over I don't want something she will eventually give it to me if she really wants to. She doesn't seem to want to make anyone feel bad. But she will NOT modify her behavior in any way for me or anyone else. NEVER EVER EVER. Only if she is forced to. Nor has she ever apologized for anything. Not ever. If I ask even for little changes, things that seem like common courtesy, she completely ignores me. If I persist she freaks. She used to ruin fun activities by viciously complaining about her colleagues or whoever. Or in a myriad of other ways. Things that were important to me. Does she have empathy or not? She acts like she cares about me and does caring things (food and money) but part of my feels like she doesn't care about me at all. Not one bit. But she's not clearly mean.

My sister, who used to complain bitterly about our parents is becoming closer to my Mom now. She's also treating her kids in ways that make me really sad. My take is she uses them to have her emotional needs met. Her needs are different than my mothers' though. And it's much, much more covert. Much more subtle. No hysterics. She was letting my self-medicating, then drinking Mom drive her kids around. Sister takes thousands and thousands of dollars a year from mother even though sister has a respected, decent paying job.

There are times when I try to spend time with mother and sister. Sister and I are a year apart and used to be close. Sister says she's too busy and acts like it's a burden. That's fine. I can live with that. But as soon as I stop trying I get all these invites, texts and calls. My sister is incredibly ambivalent about family. She loves to act like the gracious hostess while complaining about how annoying it is that she needs to go to 3 stores to get 3 kinds of crackers. Why we need 3 kinds of crackers I don't know. My sister especially seems to need to feel like she's a nice, nice person.

 I blocked them on my phone two days ago for the first time ever. I just wanted them to stop contacting me for a while. Asking for space would not have worked.

I'm very, very angry. I've been angry since I was a kid. I don't know how you guys are so patient with your families.

I would love any insight. I wonder if my Mom is actually BPD. If not, how do I understand her behavior? Maybe it's me? Amateur therapy welcome 

[Turkish]

Hello Kula,

Yet she doesn't seem nearly as bad as some of your Moms. 

At the risk in Invalidating you, yes, your mother does. I think you have a right to be Angry, both for then and also now. Do you feel that way, or do you feel guilty? Or left out of the family who seem to (dys)function their ways through life as of all of it is normal?

I think it's Borderline Personality Disorder, but how can I know?

[Methuen]

Yet she doesn't seem nearly as bad as some of your Moms.

Oh man.  I think many of us have had those thoughts at different times.  It's because our mom's behavior is somehow normalized for us.  It's like the frog that slowly boils to death. But when we read someone else's stories, we think "oh man that's rough and ya that sounds like it could be BPD" (we're not psychiatrists here, but we can recognize traits and parallels between the stories).

If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck.

Really glad you found us here.  Welcome.

[Kula]

Thanks for response Turkish! I truly appreciate it.

I'll thoroughly read the info in the link.

Well... I can't figure out how I feel! My feelings are contradictory. I have all sorts of conflicting feelings at the same time which is really uncomfortable. And I don't know how to resolve it. Been trying for decades.

I feel I have the right to be angry. Very angry. Everything I wrote is completely true. All of those things happened (but they didn't happen everyday). Yet I keep reading what I wrote because it doesn't seem real. Like something that happened to someone else.

Then twenty minutes later I think maybe I'm expecting too much from people. Life is hard. People find ways to cope. Everyone is flawed and has weaknesses. Maybe I need to be more accepting of them. I too am flawed. Maybe I'm overreacting. People often say parents  "did the best they could". How can I not accept her best? She obviously had problems and was in a lot of pain.

And she did, and still will if I would let her,  so many things that seem kind. We traveled a lot. Went on vacations. Went out to dinner. She gave me a car. On and on and on.

I can only think of a couple times she actually called me a name. I only remember one time she spanked us. She never texted a million times a day. Never called a million times a day. She only threatened to kill herself once.

Everything she did was and is caused by irresponsibility, neglect, self absorption, shortsightedness and immaturity. But she wasn't directly mean. Does that make sense? A lot of the BPD relatives I'm reading about here say mean things. And do mean things. As if they're intentionally trying to hurt and wound.

That's not how my Mom operates. And that's probably a huge part of my conflict... she wasn't directly mean!   My bad experiences were perhaps completely unintentional. She's just completely incompetent. And then I feel bad for her.  

She usually seems really, really nice and generous to people that meet her.
She's never really had friends. She's had 3 boyfriends in the past 3 decades. Other than me and my sister, she is and always has been pretty much completely alone.

But sometimes it seems like she thinks she's the only person in the world that matters. And that nobody has feelings but her. She can be completely oblivious of what's going on around her and totally rude. She seems to feel like everything she's done was justified because we were being mean to her and neglecting her feelings.

And it goes on and on and on. I have been in therapy but the therapist only asked how her actions made me feel. As if nothing was wrong with things she's done. I wanted to know if my feelings were justified. But I never got that. And thank you for saying that she sounds bad  It makes me feel better!

[missing NC]

Hi Kula,

With out without a label, you have been through a horrifically stressful upbringing and continue to grapple with a dysfunctional family.  Your anger is more than justified.  A parent does not have to be mean per se to cause her child or children considerable angst.

One of the elements of your past that I relate to is the embarrassment at have an unstable family member freak out in public.  One of a parent's primary roles is teach her young child to regulate her (the child's) emotions. But a parent who cannot regulate her own emotions cannot fulfill that role and conveys the message that the world is an unsafe place - a message you have absorbed as evidenced by your longstanding depression and anxiety. 

My most extreme family member is also a degreed professional (an attorney) who is able to function well professionally most of the time.   

Creating space for yourself through temporarily blocking out the family is simply self-care.  I hope you are able to find some support and solace. You certainly deserve both. 

[Kula]

It's been 2 weeks since I blocked my mother and sister on my phone and have had not contact with either.

Tonight my mother showed up at my house to give me soup. She didn't want to talk to me. She just wanted to give me soup.

My Mom absolutely does not like to talk and try to resolve differences or misunderstandings. She prefers to ignore stuff. But we did end up talking for quite some time. I doubt we can resolve much, if anything, it's probably pointless.  I told her I couldn't be around the family for a while.

I've always felt my Mom was/is really manipulative. I'm not sure if she's aware of it. I don't think she see's it as something unhealthy but simply as a way to get one's needs met in relationships. Over the past decades her hysterics and attention seeking behavior have almost completely gone. But I often wonder how much she's changed. As my sister and I got older and didn't entirely depend on her for food, shelter, love, money etc our responses to her behavior changed. Most of the stuff she used to do stopped "working" so she slowly adapted. Now she can only do "nice" manipulative stuff. Mainly because my sister totally participates. She takes whatever Mom gives. For her kids too. Money, food etc

I really don't know how to articulate this well, I have this feeling that how she behaves now, although much more socially acceptable and not obviously dysfunctional, is still a manipulation. I think how she interprets the world, other people and their reactions to her is just a less extreme version of her younger self, one that she hides so that she can spend more time with me, my sister and her family. I'm really not sure who she is exactly.

I honestly believe that I could be one of the most awful people in the world and her feelings about me wouldn't really change. And I don't mean that she loves me unconditionally but that she needs me unconditionally. I believe the same is true of my sister and sister's kids too.

I've always been the person in the family that gets angry rather than plays along. I'm known for that. My mother asked if my anger was accomplishing anything.

I've spent the last 5 hours thinking about the situation rather than getting anything done or relaxing. I don't know how to not dwell on it. It's too complicated. I'm dreading the holidays. I don't think I'll be able to act "normally" if I go. But if I don't go I'll be sending a message to my sister and her kids that I may never be able to take back.

I don't know if anybody can relate to much of this but thought that venting might help. I hope everybody is hanging in there.

[Notwendy]

Hi Kula,
I think many of us can relate to thinking "it's not as bad". It's the only normal we know when we think of mothers. Few people are all bad or all good. It's natural that we cling to the good. BPD is also a spectrum disorder and people still have their individual personalities.

For me, I assumed that abuse meant parents beating or starving their children, which my parents didn't do ( thankfully) but then I began to look at verbal, emotional abuse, manipulation, lying - BPD mother does these things- which doesn't mean that my family of origin was all "bad" but they are dysfunctional.

How does this affect our relationships with people? We adapt to these patterns in our families as part of our growing up. It's all we know and it's a normal adaptation. Then, as we form our own relationships as adults, we bring these patterns into them, and even attract or are attracted to people who also have similar patterns- and then are faced with dysfunction again. Or we try to deal with our family members in a new way, expecting them to not be dysfunctional,  and wonder why this isn't working.

Venting is a start. We need to recognize what experiences we have in our families, and learn how to deal with these family members. But the purpose isn't just to blame/identify- the next step- towards something better is to then work on the patterns we learned growing up, and to change them- for the better. This is a work in progress- and so you are at the first step- realizing what you thought was "not so bad" growing up is dysfunctional and now have some work to do ( we all do) to make a change. And at your own pace. First is to feel your feelings- whatever they are- anger is one of them.

Many of us here have also done personal counseling to assist with this. First though- is to go ahead, vent, feel your feelings- this is a safe place to do that.

Many of us here have high functioning BPD parents. My BPD mother is very intelligent yet this doesn't lend her to being high functional in terms of holding a job or carrying out tasks. Her family also doesn't seem disordered in some ways but one trait they tend to have is being narcissistic and invalidating. They are mostly highly accomplished in their careers as well. With your mother, it seems she is intelligent and accomplished, but unstable in her relationships and this may have affected her work history. The fact that she looked to her children as emotional caretakers is not functional parenting. The anger episodes, alcohol and substance abuse are also common with BPD.

[zachira]

You are sorting out how your family members treat you and what that means for the future. It is normal to feel confused and angry when you can not trust your family members and understand why they treat you in the ways they do. I recommend Dr Ramani's youtube videos and the Narcissist Family Files as invaluable resources on understanding what is going on in your family and how to figure out what boundaries to set with them. Welcome to BPD Family while sorry for the circumstances that bring you here.