Struggling again. Lost my temper as mother giving money away since dads death

[Our abuse recovery guide]

Hey all, I was managing okay, got through my dads funeral, leaving as discussed after the service. I have reconnected with my brother after 14 years of no contact (massively fuelled by my mother and the knowledge for us it was safer to be apart). We now talk most days about the abuse we have endured and it's so good to have it all validated and shared with the only other person who could know what it was like.

My mum hates that we are in touch. Since my dads death and her cancer pain increasing she has started to freeze us out in favour of a neighbour and a friend. My mum was completely dependent on my father for everything. She didn't even know how to use a bank card. The friend and neighbour have swooped in and started sorting all my fathers financial affairs, she tells them she is scared of us and won't have us help her. I recently found out that mum has given them both £1000 for their help in the week after my fathers death. She also admitted giving sums of money to the neighbours children and that she pays for every meal and the petrol of her friend when ever they meet. I am ashamed to say I completely lost it with her. Since my dads death I have found it hard to contain my anger and I fear I am only confirming to her that I am a bad person. It's not about the money, it's about the fact that she cannot see how vulnerable she is or how you don't buy friendship.

What am I asking for? I guess I need a virtual hug. I really do feel so desperate at the moment. My anxiety is through the roof. I have taken a couple of weeks off from contact with her but I know she is taking morphine and in a bad way and lost her sister too recently. I hate to think of her in pain and yet I know she abused us terribly and my brother disclosed something really awful at the funeral to me (that was done to him) which I completely believe and often suspected. I think I just need to share this with the community, my pain, so that I can get some perspective. I am so afraid of where this will all end. I live so far from her and my brother in another country.

[Goldcrest]

Hey all, I was managing okay, got through my dads funeral, leaving as discussed after the service. I have reconnected with my brother after 14 years of no contact (massively fuelled by my mother and the knowledge for us it was safer to be apart). We now talk most days about the abuse we have endured and it's so good to have it all validated and shared with the only other person who could know what it was like.

My mum hates that we are in touch. Since my dads death and her cancer pain increasing she has started to freeze us out in favour of a neighbour and a friend. My mum was completely dependent on my father for everything. She didn't even know how to use a bank card. The friend and neighbour have swooped in and started sorting all my fathers financial affairs, she tells them she is scared of us and won't have us help her. I recently found out that mum has given them both £1000 for their help in the week after my fathers death. She also admitted giving sums of money to the neighbours children and that she pays for every meal and the petrol of her friend when ever they meet. I am ashamed to say I completely lost it with her. Since my dads death I have found it hard to contain my anger and I fear I am only confirming to her that I am a bad person. It's not about the money, it's about the fact that she cannot see how vulnerable she is or how you don't buy friendship.

What am I asking for? I guess I need a virtual hug. I really do feel so desperate at the moment. My anxiety is through the roof. I have taken a couple of weeks off from contact with her but I know she is taking morphine and in a bad way and lost her sister too recently. I hate to think of her in pain and yet I know she abused us terribly and my brother disclosed something really awful at the funeral to me (that was done to him) which I completely believe and often suspected. I think I just need to share this with the community, my pain, so that I can get some perspective. I am so afraid of where this will all end. I live so far from her and my brother in another country.

[Notwendy]

I am sorry for the loss of your father. I know it is hard to see your mother use money like this. My BPD mother does this too. It's a strange paradox with BPD- her children would not do anything unethical with her finances- and yet, she doesn't trust us. Meanwhile, she has people around her who take advantage of her and she gives them money.

My father is deceased and my mother depended on him. Now that she's elderly, she has help at home to do this. However she doesn't manage money well. Our interest in helping has been to ensure her money will go to meet her needs. This is what my father would have wanted, and we'd abide by that wish. However, when we attempt to assist, she makes accusations, so we just backed off.

My mother is elderly and I do feel sad that she's alone in her elder years. Yet, when we do visit, she's manipulative, verbally and emotionally abusive. When we visit, she tells us how much we upset her. So then, we wonder why we visited. We don't visit with intent to upset her.

I have shared a statement from social services when I called them to see if I could intervene in some of the situations concerning her behavior towards my father. They asked if he was considered to be legally competent. He was and they told me I didn't have grounds to intervene. Hearing my concern, they said "your father is legally competent to make his own bad decisions".

Same with how my mother spends money. It's her money. I've spoken to the social worker who is involved with her and she has told me the same thing- that the courts would frown on our attempts to intervene- it would look like we were taking advantage.

Something to consider. While it appears your mother is being scammed, she's also possibly gaining something from this. If my mother offers money to someone- it has strings attached. For her, it's a form of control. The people who she gives the money to are people who need it and so they also stay connected to her and do things for her. They may be financially exploiting her, but she is also getting her needs met by having some form of control with them.

BPD seems to play out the most with the closest of relationships. It can appear hurtful that someone with BPD seems to be nicer to people they don't know as well but this seems to be the usual behavior. I understand it feels hurtful to you that your mother seems to be preferring neighbors to you- but this isn't about you. It's how the dynamics are with people with BPD.

I also "lost my temper" with BPD mom when my father was ill. That fell right into the Karpman triangle with her presenting me as her terrible daughter. I realized that losing temper is not effective at all with her. It doesn't register with her. In her thinking, she feels she is being attacked and then becomes more abusive.

We ( her children) have come to the realization that she's in control of her decisions and our attempts to do what we wish we could do for her are not effective- because she wants to be in control. She keeps her financial information private from us and doesn't cooperate with even simpler things that we ask to help her with. We are in contact with her, but stay neutral emotionally. It's hard because we do feel sad for her, but she is actually in a situation of her own choosing. Yes, your grief and sadness are normal feelings right now. You are not a bad person for feeling angry. What you did learn is that getting angry at someone with BPD often makes the situation worse- but the feeling of anger doesn't make you a bad person. Take care of yourself.

Also know that you can feel empathy for your mother- while choosing to have peace and happiness for yourself. It's good that you are able to reconnect with your brother and I hope the two of you can form a close relationship.

[Goldcrest]

Thank you Notwendy always appreciate your insightful responses. I know you are right, I have known all along that the best thing is to step away and protect myself. My mother has multiple selves and sometimes I get hooked in by the crying toddler and I just want to help her. I hate to think of her in pain with the cancer and all alone but she's not alone, it's me that is alone in my pain. I keep trying to rescue her and now I have persecuted her. I really did go for it and said all the things I have longed to say. I called her out on her manipulative behaviour, playing the victim, buying friendship. I feel ashamed but I got to a point of utter despair with her.

My dads money (she never worked a day in her life) would make a big difference to me in the future and he wanted us to have it when she was gone. However I now see any attempts to protect it and her use of it is futile. She will no doubt run through it very quickly. I have always said to her use it to make yourself happy, trips for coffee and lunches but not to buy people.

Sometimes I feel that I am being tested by life, is that silly? I just keep asking myself why am is this level of suffering mine. I know I should recognise I am in control of how much suffering I take but there are days where it just consumes me. Where all the trauma and loss feels too heavy to push away. I'll be okay just needed a moan. Thank you for reading.

[Notwendy]

I understand the feeling. I didn't want money, but I did want some sentimental items my father has. BPD mother controlled what he gave me, so even if he did want me to have them, she'd not allow it. After he died, she refused to let me have anything of his. She relented a bit when she realized my children wanted the mementoes, but if she give any to them, it's her decision. I have collected some of them since- and I am keeping them for the children when they have a place for them.

Dad's main concern was her and any money he left, he would have wanted her to have for her needs. Due to the dynamics in the family at the time he passed away, I don't even want to own something of his. I don't want the money because it feels somehow wrong to me to have something my father didn't intend for me to have. I am questioning just how much our relationship mattered to him. To me - what someone choses to give to someone reflects the relationship and whether it was his decision or my mother's- it was nothing.


My reason for wanting them in the first place was to preserve his memory and give them to my children.

Mom hasn't worked either. I cringe at how she spends the money he earned but she's always done that. We are more concerned that she continues to have what she needs. After my father passed away, she disowned me, then "reowned" me. It's not that it wouldn't make a difference, of course any assistance does make a difference. It's that I don't know for certain if disowning me was my father's idea or her idea ( doesn't matter- he did what she decided anyway) so I don't accept there's a relationship to what he owned now.

He wanted his money to go to my mother and so she will do what she chooses with it.

[Goldcrest]

Notwendy, again everything you say makes sense. I am sorry about you not being able to choose some personal items of your dads.

At the funeral I remember crying but also feeling that I didn't really know a "father" and in fact my dad was an illusion in many ways. I don't care about the money if she spends for herself but I do care if she signs the house over to the neighbour. I really do fear she will do this and I can't do anything to stop it. She will certainly dangle it to the neighbour, in order to secure help whilst her cancer runs its course.

Yes, the money wasn't really meant for us, if it had been he would have set aside amounts for us in his will. He only wanted the best for my mother. I have to let it go. I do let it go but then she hooks me in again.

Today I put together names for her different identities. Boss man, Ice queen, Playground bully, Toddler, Kind mum and waif. I will use these to help me step back from the insanity and practice acceptance. Thanks again for reading. 

[Couscous]

Relationships to BPDs are purely transactional. To them buying friendships is perfectly natural and normal, and they assume everybody does this. I actually wouldn’t be at all surprised if your mother knows she needs to give the neighbors a plausible excuse for why she isn’t relying on her kids, and telling them that it’s because she doesn’t trust you sounds plausible. I have begun to realize more and more just how cunning and calculated my “helpless” mother really is behind her waif mask, which occasionally slips, and that’s she’s fully aware of what she does. No, she’s not doing things to hurt her kids on purpose; it’s all “just doing business” as far as she’s concerned, and doing what she’s needs to do in order to survive in a hostile world.

[Goldcrest]

Thanks Couscous. My dad was the same, everything a transaction. I wanted to talk with the neighbour about the money and to ask her if we need to organise a more formal arrangement where mum pays for her to run errands but my mum became very upset at the idea. I think my mum likes to seduce with money, to dangle and promise. All my childhood she would do this with me and the things she promised never transpire which was painful and I never felt able to ask why it hadn't happened.

One of her "friends" took money and has been taking petrol money for visiting her and also mum always buys lunch. It just upsets me because to me that is not friendship and these people are held in high regard.

This forum is always invaluable when I feel really stuck. Thanks.

[Notwendy]

Same with my mother. She prefers to pay people to do things for her as then she's in control. Money from her has strings attached to it.

People assume her children are horrible and neglect her. We don't but when we are with her she's verbally and emotionally abusive and so we have to limit our contact with her.

[Couscous]

Goldcrest,

I’m also wondering if your reaction might be part of the role reversal, and your protective instincts are being activated by the thought of others taking advantage of your mother.

Tapping into my “natural impulse” to be the parent and protect my mother was one of the key ways she has always manipulated me.

[Goldcrest]

Couscous, yes! I often feel like she is my child and certainly when I got angry with her it was as if I was telling off a child for doing something risky. I don't have children but she will cry and come to me when things go very wrong for her and it all feels very maternal for me - this was the role my dad used to provide,  parent. Now I seem to have become his replacement.

[Couscous]

Goldstar, it's finally begun to dawn on me just how much being embroiled in all the drama triangle dynamics and concerning myself with everyone else's pain but mine, has been a very effective way for me to "self-medicate", and completely avoid feeling any of my own pain. But the pain seems to have decided that it will no longer be ignored. I have essentially been stuck in the bargaining phase of the grief cycle for my entire life. I would like to progress to the final phase.

[Notwendy]

My role has been caretaker as well. It wasn't entirely altruistic- we didn't want my mother's money but we did want to see it be available for her needs. None of us could support her in the way she would want. We couldn't handle seeing her without anything though - we would want her basic needs met.

We aren't wealthy but would not want our parents go hungry or homeless and so would help of it came to that. It would be different if my parents had a limited income and were frugal as we would know they did the best they could with what they had. The issue is - they had enough and my mother spends lavishly.

Dad planned well for their needs post retirement. He left her enough to meet her needs and more but she spends recklessly. She would think nothing of spending our savings too if she could.

We have worked hard to be able to help our kids with college and save for retirement.  While we don't want her money, we also feel we need to protect ours.  We aren't obligated to her but I would not want to see her go without basic needs. So we wanted to see her money managed properly so it would go to her needs, rather than to her wants. There would be some for that too, if it were managed carefully.

I also know the value of working for money. Dad worked to save for her. It's not easy to see her take that for granted and not be careful with that money. It feels like it's a dishonor to him to be careless with it. On the other hand, he allowed it.

[Couscous]

Notwendy, I believe that there is absolutely a time and place to have someone declared financially incompetent.

[Notwendy]

 I agree Couscous, but the law is different from our own common sense. I have raised this question with a social worker who helps with my mother. My mother would pass as legally competent. The key is- people can be legally competent to make poor decisions.

So far, she's not run out of funds and still has significant assets. The courts in her region are very protective of the elderly and would be suspicious of adult children attempting to get access to their elderly parents' money.

We've discussed this with the social worker and the best decision at the moment is to not attempt this. 

[Couscous]

Notwendy,

True, people have the right to make their own bad decisions, but when there is mental illness involved normal rules no longer apply. But I wonder if an attorney might be less biased than social services in terms of advice? There may be options to have a non-family member oversee your mother’s assets for example.

[HappyChappy]

BPD seems to play out the most with the closest of relationships. It can appear hurtful that someone with BPD seems to be nicer to people they don't know as well but this seems to be the usual behavior. I understand it feels hurtful to you that your mother seems to be preferring neighbors to you- but this isn't about you. It's how the dynamics are with people with BPD.

Good point. Isn't it due to their fear of abandonment ? If they don't know someone well they use charm to keep them, if they are more invested in you they use more BPD trickery, partly because they fear losing you more and partly because they need to know you well to hit your week spots and work their manipulation competently.  I know my BPD equates money to love - so it's mostly self love (she promises but never actually gifts). She is always pretending she's generous to others, but whenever we've been able to check - she's just lying about her generosity. Or she's gifts to make us jealous. If they see their behaviour works it just encourages them to do more so the key is to always appear not bothered (hard to do , I know).

Goldcrest I'd agree with NotWendy (does this mean I disagree with Wendy ?) it's not you - it's your BPD. The fact your BPD is trying to wind you up - is ironically because you're important to her - an odd way of showing it, but take it as a back handed complement.

[Notwendy]

Couscous- I agree and have considered attorneys. Yes it's a mental illness, but she's mentally competent in the legal sense. That's frustrating but competence in the legal sense is minimal. She could easily pass a mental status exam. However, we do have POA in the event she is not considered legally competent but at the moment, we don't have grounds to pursue that. 

[Goldcrest]

HappyChappy thanks, helpful to read from you what I still fail to accept. I am just very anxious at the moment and it's been wonderful to reconnect with my brother but also hard because in talking about the abuse I find myself becoming upset for him and what he endured. After we talk on the phone I can feel quite full up with dark feelings. He was amazing at the funeral, a model son and yet I hear her say terrible things about him to other people. He lives abroad, one saving grace as at least being far away he is limited in the help he can give - but equally why she will villify him.

And HappyChappy

Goldcrest I'd agree with NotWendy (does this mean I disagree with Wendy ?

that made me chuckle, good to have a bit of humour amongst the chaos.

I couldn't see my T this week because of the visit to mum so I recognise that I am probably more destabilised than if I had seen her.