Do you think children who are pathologized from infancy develop BPD?

[Elizabeth22]

or something that looks like it? I could not get the entire title in there

Something I have been wondering about.
If a parent thinks something is 'wrong' with their child and takes that child to many specialists over the course of that child's life, with no diagnosis, but persists, does the child then come to have no choice but to believe something is 'wrong with them' because the parents acts as if there is?
Almost like Munchausen by proxy which I guess is now known as Factitious disorder.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Rev]

or something that looks like it? I could not get the entire title in there

Something I have been wondering about.
If a parent thinks something is 'wrong' with their child and takes that child to many specialists over the course of that child's life, with no diagnosis, but persists, does the child then come to have no choice but to believe something is 'wrong with them' because the parents acts as if there is?
Almost like Munchausen by proxy which I guess is now known as Factitious disorder.

So the answer to that question - as far as I can understand from the studies done on resilience - is maybe.

There is no question that such behavior will leave a mark, adversely impact the child's attachment style. It is not a given, however, that this will lead to BPD.

Rev

[Elizabeth22]

So the answer to that question - as far as I can understand from the studies done on resilience - is maybe.

There is no question that such behavior will leave a mark, adversely impact the child's attachment style. It is not a given, however, that this will lead to BPD.

Rev

Thank you, Rev.
BPD seems to be such a mystery at times, I have even read that there are differing opinions as to whether it exists or not or it's just a catchall for when there is not a clear  diagnosis.
I wonder if adversely impacting a child's attachment style makes them feel invalidated and can manifest as BPD or look like it.
Just really thinking outloud here, the BPD person in my life is my DIL and I learn bits and pieces about her all the time. Trying to piece it together, I suppose.

Lately, she has been pulling away from my younger granchild, who is her child with my son. She does not want mother him anymore and will do anything to get out of doing the tiniest thing for him. She pathologizes him, has diagnosed him with everything, but he did get a diagnosis recently. I dont want to get too specific here.
Anyway, she seems to be treating him like this diagnosis is the entirety of him and there is nothing else to him which I think will just make him worse and ultimately he will not be able to function as an adult.
Sorry for these scattered thoughts. I am trying to figure it out and if it's a learned behavior by her.

[Rev]

Attachment Theory - is just that - it's a theory. It's a lens by which you can understand how to better (more helpfully?) respond to behavior without necessarily tolerating hurtful behavior.

I would recommend Attachment in Psychotherapy by David J  Wallin. I have the audible version. Even though it's written for clinicians, it's very accessible.

Personally, as I have journeyed through my own story, both with my ex and now my daughter, I have come to feel that if I spend too much time wondering about the "why" of things, I begin to doubt myself.   Attachment theory has allowed me to understand enough of the why of things without worrying so much that it prevents me from responding, usually now with far more empathy and firm boundaries than before when I was in a co-dependant relationship with my ex.

Hope this helps.

Hang in there.

Rev

[Swimmy55]

Interesting , and perhaps maybe as Rev said.  The next step ( in my mind) is the parents' attachment style interacting with the child's attachment style could play a part . Maybe.   


In my son's particular case, his Dad and Grandfather have undiagnosed BPD traits, and I suffer from my own Major Depressive Disorder and GAD.  So between genetics and environment, my son didn't have much of a chance , after I put the pieces of the puzzle together. 

https://bpdfamily.com/content/borderline-personality-disorder-clinical-overview

[offthepedestal]

Elizabeth22, thank you for asking this question... it resonates with something I was wondering about with my DIL, as she, her mom and sister are regularly at the doctor's/in the hospital and there is strong enmeshment along with the up and down nature of and intensity of emotions and the confusing accusations.  There is a lot of secrecy about their hospital and doctor appointments and I am confused about how to be supportive without getting into their business.  I would be interested in any insights you have discovered regarding how to not trigger yet try to have a meaningful relationship.

Rev, thank you for your reply... that is helpful.  Any other materials to review would be helpful.  I thought I had good boundaries, but I am having to reconsider and adjust.   I love the Boundaries books and am rereading them.

[Rev]

Rev, thank you for your reply... that is helpful.  Any other materials to review would be helpful.  I thought I had good boundaries, but I am having to reconsider and adjust.   I love the Boundaries books and am rereading them.

Another great quick refrence book is - The Eight Concepts of Bowen Theory.  Murray Bowen is a pioneer in Family Systems Theory. FST reminds us that even as individuals we are part of a larger system. It helps pinpoint where boundaries are lacking and reminds us that laying boundaries will have consequences- even if the consequences are worth it.

I find that often we (I should say "I") can have trouble laying boundaries down precisely because we have trouble coming to terms with the impact laying boundaries will have that may present challenges.

Great thread

Rev

[Turkish]

The Bowen Center has a great overview of the 8 concepts. They're short reads. Family Systems Theory is closely related to Eric Berne's Transactional Analysis, and Karpman (who coalesced his observations in his famous Triangle) studied under Berne.

https://www.thebowencenter.org/core-concepts-diagrams

Unlike Freudian and Jungian psychology, TA, FST, and the Karpman Triangle are actually based upon clinical psychology and therefore science.

[offthepedestal]

Another great quick refrence book is - The Eight Concepts of Bowen Theory.  Murray Bowen is a pioneer in Family Systems Theory. FST reminds us that even as individuals we are part of a larger system. It helps pinpoint where boundaries are lacking and reminds us that laying boundaries will have consequences- even if the consequences are worth it.

I find that often we (I should say "I") can have trouble laying boundaries down precisely because we have trouble coming to terms with the impact laying boundaries will have that may present challenges.

Great thread

Rev

[offthepedestal]

Absolutely... the possible outcome of laying boundaries can be heartbreaking.  I used to be a very optimistic person, and generous of heart.  After finally being forced to see reality on a repeated basis, having it confirmed by the inability of loved ones to respect boundaries let alone actually care, seeing the shards of broken facades of connections and relationships has me gun shy to lay them at this point.  I am not hopeful of a positive outcome.  Self respect can exact a very high price.

[offthepedestal]

Thank you, Rev and Turkish for the recommendation on Bowen Family Systems... just started reading and it is quite helpful.  And recognizable.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Rev]

The Bowen Center has a great overview of the 8 concepts. They're short reads. Family Systems Theory is closely related to Eric Berne's Transactional Analysis, and Karpman (who coalesced his observations in his famous Triangle) studied under Berne.

https://www.thebowencenter.org/core-concepts-diagrams

Unlike Freudian and Jungian psychology, TA, FST, and the Karpman Triangle are actually based upon clinical psychology and therefore science.

And so while we are at it - Stephen Hayes (he has a website) is great for personal development once you situate yourself in the middle of what you are dealing with. Also based on tons of research. 

Rev

[Swimmy55]

Great thought- provoking post. Thanks for all the suggested readings. 

[Rev]

Great thought- provoking post. Thanks for all the suggested readings. 

ACK ... pedictive text.

STEVEN Hayes.

[Elizabeth22]

Hi, thank you for all the suggestions. Sorry I was not able to get to this sooner, just going to answer quickly here.

I do not have any suggestions about how to get along with DIL because I decided to go no contact with her, it is not possible to have a relationship with her because she does not see people as people, but rather as a means to get what she wants whether it be material things, gratification or creating drama via triangulation or other means.
She also spent a lot of time at the hospital,  ER visits. Either because of 'accidents' she had or something she made up. This was all about pill seeking, she is a drug addict.
Her mother also has some sketchy medical history and smokes marijuana, her entire family are criminals and addicts on disability or welfare.
DIL is on disability which she got on fairly quickly after a fake mental break (we are sure it was faked) and does not work. The quickness of her acceptance on disability makes me think whatever it is, the condition is severe. I know it's a mental illness, but that's it, I have not asked.

The thing that brought me back here again and sort of prompted this thread was over Christmas she reached a new, lower level of helplessness ie not wanting to do something and claiming she couldnt because she was 'sick'. She did not want to wrap my grandson's presents so my son thought it was a good idea to call me numerous times (the ringer was off that afternoon) to ask me to do it. This was alarming to me because he knows better. I used to have a panic attack whenever the phone rang because it was usually one of them asking me to do something that was their responsibility.
I told him that had he gotten in touch with me I would have refused and do not ask me to do anything she does not want to do again.
I feel really concerned about this even tho I have put up firm boundaries.

One thing I was told about her is that as a child, if she didnt want to do something, she didnt have to. If there were other grandchildren at the house and she wanted them to leave, her grandfather would make them leave to please her.

She was raised mostly by her paternal grandparents, her mother abandoned her and her father was in and out of her life. I think her mother came back into her life when she was a young adult, not sure, I try to know as little about them as possible. I do know it's not certain who her father is, the man she thought was her father or his brother, the former is deceased due to a life of drug use and I was told the latter was dying like 10 years ago yet he lives.

So, it got me to wondering, was this episode from learned behavior or something else.

[Couscous]

My BPD mother was subjected to the family projection process and was treated like a helpless victim when she was growing up. Her ‘nickname’, if you will was, ‘poor M____.’