New and just need to vent please

[Destiny 37]

Hi

I’ve been lurking around the boards for a few weeks and taking in some new information on how to handle things. So thanks for all the guidance so far.

I’m feeling exasperated at the moment and not sure how much longer I can continue living like this.

I’ve been with my husband for 17 years. I always thought he was just a very unreasonable person with anger issues and it frustrated me no end. Then a big life event happened and his behaviour became terrible. The arguments have been horrendous over the years and my children have witnessed so much awful stuff I feel ashamed.

I finally convinced him to get help but it took years. I knew something was not right. He was diagnosed pretty fast with BPD. Which of course he completely fought against to the point the psychiatrist kicked us out of his office. He finally accepted it. Started therapy and he was making huge improvements. He stopped counselling recently and completely regressed to how he was before he started the counselling. It’s so hard being around him again now.

His major problems are very angry out bursts. 99% of the time I get the brunt of it but if I’m not here my children do. He doesn’t hit them so please do not worry but he shouts a lot. Makes very unreasonable demands, expects perfection by everyone. He’s impossible.

He’s spent most of our marriage convincing me I’m the problem, to the point I became very ill with severe anxiety. I’m coming out the other side and I know now how warped his sense of reality is. He spent so many years convincing me he was right and I was wrong that I felt confused and alone for a very long time. Like I was some terrible person making his life unbearable.

His behaviour is now impacting my children. One cries over everything and the other is anxious about dying all the time. I don’t know what to do anymore. He says if we split he’ll take me to court if I don’t let him have the children at least 3 days a week but if I’m not there I know he will just scream and shout at them if he’s in the wrong mood. So I feel trapped.

I have moments where I see the person I fell in love with and allow myself to get swept up. Things are ok for a while but it always breaks down because of one of his angry outbursts.

I was raised by two people who behave just like he does. I believe my mother has NPD but we will never get an answer on that one. I do have ptsd myself and once he kicks off I feel like that trapped child again. So I fight back and it all gets worse. I’m trying so hard to not bite and to leave things but it’s incredibly hard when you’ve spent your whole life being accused of nonsense you haven’t done and being constantly convinced you are the problem.

We also rely on him as the bread winner and as he’s getting older he’s struggling to hold his tongue at work, as again everyone else is the problem as always not him. I’m worried he will lose his job and I don’t earn enough to pay the bills.

I just feel so frustrated. Nobody is supporting me and my children emotionally. My family don’t care and his family clearly don’t get how bad he is because he can pull himself around every time he sees them. It’s just me and my children who see exactly who he is. So I just look like a liar when I’ve tried to reach out for support for me and my children. It’s very isolating and lonely. I’ve lost close friends as they say he’s abusive and I need to leave.

I’m very angry as I write this as he kicked off again at me before the kids went to school. So a lovely start to day for them again.

I also don’t feel he’s being honest with his counsellor. He claims his counsellors says due to my mental health problem we are bad for each other. Perhaps there is some truth to that but I’m the only person who has ever stood by him and if his counsellor knew some of the awful treatment over the years I think I deserve a medal for sticking around. Most would of left I’m convinced of it. Perhaps if I had a better support structure I would have.

I’ve been bullied relentlessly for years over sex, been trapped in cars, had my kids taken off me when they were smaller, had my phone and cards taken off me, been locked in the house, been pushed and shoved, had things thrown at me. It’s been awful at times. He began to recognise he had been manipulating me and how awful he had treated me but we have come full circle and everything is my fault again.

I’m not sure what I’m hoping to gain for posing. I’m sorry for war and peace. I’m just tired of it all to be honest and needed to vent. I appreciate I sound like  “im a victim”. I’m just so tired of it all. It’s all so lonely and isolating. Does it actually get better? Is this my life now a constant rollercoaster of toddler tantrums from a fully grown man? I know he can’t help how he feels or acts to a certain extent but I have so much resentment.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Dancingbear]

I'm so sorry you're going through this. My own situation is not quite as extreme but sadly I still see so many similarities although my partner is undiagnosed. I do however sadly see the effects on my kids mental health and it's heartbreaking.

I think the most important thing right now is to find some external support for YOU. I don't know where in the world you are but would strongly recommend seeking you're own therapist (ideally one experienced in abuse) and also reaching out to a local domestic abuse organisation. It can be so exhausting and confusing trying to figure out what to do and it's so important to have some outside support and guidance. My own therapy has helped me soo much to start actually making sense of what's happening in my relationship as just like you I thought for YEARS That it was my fault! My partner is incredibly articulate and had me convinced that I just couldn't understand him or communicate properly.

I'm sure some more experienced folks here will have other advice too but just wanted to reach out and say that I understand how tough it is xxx

[formflier]

I'm so sorry that you have such a hard relationship and I am also hopeful for you...because you took a first big and very brave step.  You posted and told your story!  Job well done.  

The best way forward:  Come back to these boards often and post and respond to questions.

For now...I have one question for you and I want to point you to some of BPD family's extensive resources.

Question:  Can you take this last example you mentioned where he kicked off at you before kids went to school.  As much detail and he said she said as you can recall is helpful.

From this example we hope to be able to coach you on how to "turn down the temperature" just a notch or two in your relationship.  That will gain you room to think and make other changes.


You mentioned "lurking" here for a while.  Have you read any articles and/or resources?

A good first article to read!


Please read the above and post your first reactions to what you read...we'll come back to this article often and discuss stuff.

We can help and will walk with you on this new journey to a calmer relationship.  How does this sound?

Best,

FF

[GaGrl]

Welcome! It's always a big step when a long-time lurker makes a post.

The fact that your husband has a diagnosis and that you saw improvement when he was pursuing treatment is a positive -- let's leave that for a later discussion and focus on you for now.

Have you had any form of counseling/therapy? Have your children? What resources do you have for getting into a regular, supportive therapy schedule? It really can make a difference.

There are techniques we can help with that can reduce the conflict until you have a clearer picture on your family's longer term needs.

[15years]

I appreciate I sound like  “im a victim”. I’m just so tired of it all. It’s all so lonely and isolating.
...
I know he can’t help how he feels or acts to a certain extent but I have so much resentment.

You sound like my internal dialogues, and looking at it from this perspective makes it more clear. You don't sound like you think you're a victim but maybe he's telling you that you see yourself as a victim?

I too feel both compassion and lots of resentment for my spouse.

[chinchilla_dad]

Don't forget that Borderlines and Narcissists tend to pass it on to their children.  It sounds like you were kids are In an important Developmental stage When they need stability And consistency Neither of which It sounds like your husband can provide.  I was with my BPDex For 10 years So I understand how hard it can be.  I'm not sure if you're familiar with the term gaslighting But it's very real

[Destiny 37]

I'm so sorry you're going through this. My own situation is not quite as extreme but sadly I still see so many similarities although my partner is undiagnosed. I do however sadly see the effects on my kids mental health and it's heartbreaking.

I think the most important thing right now is to find some external support for YOU. I don't know where in the world you are but would strongly recommend seeking you're own therapist (ideally one experienced in abuse) and also reaching out to a local domestic abuse organisation. It can be so exhausting and confusing trying to figure out what to do and it's so important to have some outside support and guidance. My own therapy has helped me soo much to start actually making sense of what's happening in my relationship as just like you I thought for YEARS That it was my fault! My partner is incredibly articulate and had me convinced that I just couldn't understand him or communicate properly.

I'm sure some more experienced folks here will have other advice too but just wanted to reach out and say that I understand how tough it is xxx

Thanks for your response. I’m sorry your situation is similar. I naively thought a diagnoses would lead to a cure but i know better now.

I did have therapy for a couple of years but I stopped as it wasn’t working. I now know it wasn’t working because I didn’t realise just how much he was negatively impacting my perception of reality at the time. I see it all so much more clearly now.

My husband is also very articulate and over the years I’ve had family members accus me of lying because my version of him didn’t meet up to the image he projected to others. It’s all very lonely.

I will definitely look into counselling again though. Think I’ll need to help me make sense of this all.

[Destiny 37]

I'm so sorry that you have such a hard relationship and I am also hopeful for you...because you took a first big and very brave step.  You posted and told your story!  Job well done.  

The best way forward:  Come back to these boards often and post and respond to questions.

For now...I have one question for you and I want to point you to some of BPD family's extensive resources.

Question:  Can you take this last example you mentioned where he kicked off at you before kids went to school.  As much detail and he said she said as you can recall is helpful.

From this example we hope to be able to coach you on how to "turn down the temperature" just a notch or two in your relationship.  That will gain you room to think and make other changes.


You mentioned "lurking" here for a while.  Have you read any articles and/or resources?

A good first article to read!


Please read the above and post your first reactions to what you read...we'll come back to this article often and discuss stuff.

We can help and will walk with you on this new journey to a calmer relationship.  How does this sound?

Best,

FF

Thank you for taking the time to respond.

I’ve read the article you put a link too. Wow. Kind of what I knew already but seeing it all summarised shows how serious this all is. Also makes me realise I’m not crazy when I say how much it all takes it’s toll on me. How hard it is not to take the angry outbursts personally. His diagnoses has definitely been a blessing in some ways but also a huge blow. I feel I am a strong person but years of this has definitely taken it’s toll on me. I’ve definitely ended up in the “try to avoid an outburst” at all costs category. Which hasn’t really helped things I see now.

This morning he was in a happy mood when he woke. We have a puppy and he had messed in his crate over night. It was everywhere and he was covered. The kids were running late for school anyway. So I said one of us needs to do the school run and the other shower the pup. He chose to shower the pup but instantly became angry in the process. He was shouting at the puppy to keep still in the shower. I told him to stop it and reminded him the puppy was still very young and his shouting was scaring him. My youngest went into the bathroom to also tell her dad to stop shouting. He barked at her to get out. So my older daughter went in to defend her sister. She’s struggling with his outbursts and stands up to him (rightly or wrongly I don’t know but she knows his behaviour is wrong and it upsets her a lot). He then keeps shouting at the pup. Then shouting through the door telling me to F off on repeat. Then starts screaming that we all need to F off. Everyone is on his back constantly all the time and he knows how to see to the dog. He’s absolutely seething by this point. Just shouting stuff through the door I couldn’t even make sense of. I told the kids to ignore him and to get ready for school. Afterwards he’s slamming doors and cupboards, stomping around like a child. I ignore him as i don’t have the energy and he goes to his office to work. I get the kids to school and we don’t see each other until he face time calls me whilst I’m out in the afternoon sobbing.

I come home to comfort him but I’m still feeling upset. He starts saying he’s no good and we all view him as a liability. It’s all getting on top of him. I explain that as he stopped his counselling for two months I felt he has regressed and thay his behaviour towards me was just like before he started counselling. Are got angry with me again. Saying he’s trying really hard and I have no idea how hard it is for him to live with this and control it. I leave for the school pick up.

Get home he’s looking very down but agreed to go to his brothers for the evening. I don’t say it but I orchestrated it so that would happen as we need a break. His family don’t see him unless he’s happy and they offer no support. I’m tired of trying to do this by myself. Before he leaves we end up in a heavy debate about things that have passed and his behaviour. I told him he isn’t as aware as he thinks he is. When I brought up specific examples of resllt bad past behaviour he just spends the whole time deflecting it all back on to me and I have to walk away in the end as I feel like I’m going to explode. He leaves for his brothers. Kisses me and tells me how much he loves me and how important I am to him.

I’m exhausted! I also know I shouldn’t have these conversations with him. I don’t believe he’s capable of seeing how he is. I don’t know why I let myself get drawn into it. I’m almost waiting for an epiphany moment that will never come. I may as well be trying to convince a toddler who thinks they know better than me. I’m out of my depth big time. I don’t know how to handle him 

[Destiny 37]

Welcome! It's always a big step when a long-time lurker makes a post.

The fact that your husband has a diagnosis and that you saw improvement when he was pursuing treatment is a positive -- let's leave that for a later discussion and focus on you for now.

Have you had any form of counseling/therapy? Have your children? What resources do you have for getting into a regular, supportive therapy schedule? It really can make a difference.

There are techniques we can help with that can reduce the conflict until you have a clearer picture on your family's longer term needs.

Thank you

Definitely a positive. Just feel sad things have taken so many steps backwards after so much hard work was put in by him. Life was more settled but it feels like the rug has been pulled out from under us again.

I did have therapy but with out being able to communicate these issues it didn’t help. Now I know what’s going on and can clearly see how this had made me so ill at one point I feel in a better position to get myself some help that will actually work this time.

I need to seek counselling for my children. I have put it off so much for fear of social services taking them away from me. I’ve already lost my eldest child who was stillborn and the thought of losing my other two kills me. So I’ve been very selfish and not sought any help for them out of fear of someone thinking they shouldn’t be living with us. I feel ashamed saying it out loud but I’m genuinely terrified they will be taken away if they tell the counsellor daddy shouts a lot and has hurt mummy in the past. It’s so scary.

[Destiny 37]

You sound like my internal dialogues, and looking at it from this perspective makes it more clear. You don't sound like you think you're a victim but maybe he's telling you that you see yourself as a victim?

I too feel both compassion and lots of resentment for my spouse.

When we discuss his blow ups he constantly says I think I’m whiter than white. That I do no wrong. Every blow up is explained with me being the cause with a “but my behaviour was bad” at the end. So it’s an admission but with the blame for it always laid solely at my door. Most people when verbally attacked will defend themselves. I’m not unique in that situation. I’ve not helped things prior to diagnoses as I would call him awful names when he would explode. It was out of frustration and hurt. I never meant anything I said but that’s all he focuses on so in his mind I’m just as bad as he is. He even tried to convince me at one point that I also have BPD. I don’t. I have ptsd which is triggered by his explosions. So fight or flight kicks. Fight normally wins. So I have to battle it hard. However I know I don’t cause the massive explosions. That’s all on him.

[Destiny 37]

Don't forget that Borderlines and Narcissists tend to pass it on to their children.  It sounds like you were kids are In an important Developmental stage When they need stability And consistency Neither of which It sounds like your husband can provide.  I was with my BPDex For 10 years So I understand how hard it can be.  I'm not sure if you're familiar with the term gaslighting But it's very real

Definitely. I am the consistent parent out of the two. I’m their safe place but I’m not perfect. I have my own mental health issues and I can be snappy and shout at times. However most of that is me walking on eggshells trying to avoid another outburst from him. I’ve even begged my kids to be good at points just to avoid him getting angry. Which makes me feel like an awful person I can’t lie. It’s confusing for them because one day dad is running around the house, playing silly games etc. Next he’s shouting at everyone over nothing. The next he’ll be in bed for hours on end because he can’t cope with life. It’s confusing for them. For us all

Up until about two years ago he would explode. We would have a huge argument and then once the dust had settled we would sit down to talk. I’d leave every chat believing it was all my fault because he would convince me it was. I began to think I was the problem, all i did was shout at everyone all the time and be angry constantly, thay I wasn’t a good mum etc. One day I decided enough was enough. That I was balanced enough to trust my own judgement, that the person causing these outbursts was him and him alone. I stopped agreeing with him and standing my ground on what the true events were. He still can’t cope with this.

[thankful person]

Hi unicorn and welcome,
I’ve only been on here a few months but I’m finding the advice and support really helpful from the wonderful people here. My wife has bpd which was diagnosed before we met but she thinks she’s recovered from it since she did dbt and stopped self harming. She also has screaming tantrums sometimes and I worry about the effects on our two young children and the dog. I guess it’s good that your husband realises there is a problem he needs to work on. But my understanding of it now is that much of it the bpd people just can’t understand and relate to how we not bpd people see things. What’s really helped and empowered me is learning that I can make effective changes in our relationship without needing any change or input from my wife. I highly recommend the books as well, “stop caretaking the borderline or narcissist” and “raising resilient children with a borderline or narcissist”. All the best.

[Cat Familiar]

Here’s a 3 minute video on ending conflict:  https://bpdfamily.com/content/ending-conflict

You sound entirely exhausted with the situation as is. What can you do to recharge your batteries? It sounds like your time is limited, but perhaps there’s something that would give you some positive energy. Maybe take the puppy for a walk?

[BlueNavigator]

Unicorn85,

There's lots to unpack here, I am so glad you are reaching out for help. These discussion boards won't change your husband or even give you everything you need but they are a great part of the "support package" you need to shoulder this burden.

A few things I have found helpful to get my children the help they need:

1. Contact the counseling center at your children's school, explain the situation anonymously if you must, but whoever you talk to (even if it's a receptionist) will probably be experienced in situations of child abuse and be able to help you find resources for them (and maybe you too).

2. Many cities have child advocacy non-profits you can reach out to.

3. Schedule a visit with your child's pediatrician to ask for advice. If you don't have a pediatrician, now might be a good time to get one.

I was also very worried about bringing on investigations from child protective services and losing custody of my children if I opened up to others about my wife's shouts, slaps, and grabs on our toddler son. I finally did though when I started feeling suicidal. Turns out (at least in my state), you basically have to break your kids' bones before the state becomes involved, and explaining the situation honestly makes people more willing to put you at the top of the waitlist so you can start to get some help.

[formflier]

Unicorn85

Great job coming back quickly and replying to posts in your thread!   

Looks like you are getting the hang of this.

Can I encourage you to go back and read Broken person's post again?  Anything in that post stand out to you or give you hope?

There is so much we can work with you on, without involving your husband at all.  I see potential for great progress.

This isn't for a second to "blame" you for the situation or to suggest you are at "fault"...it is supposed to give you HOPE that this can get better, even if your husband chooses not to participate.

How does that sound?  Ready to dig in?

Last:  I want to echo others that have encouraged you to be kind to yourself and "recharge".  We need you at your best! 

What kind of things do you do in order to "recharge"?

Best,

FF

[chinchilla_dad]

Unicorn - I'm glad You're coming to the realization that he's never going to change.  I have OCPD and I can tell you firsthand That it is so hard To change a personality disorder and I WANT to change mine.  I've been working on mine for 15 years Having known what it is And even with lotta time and effort and Professional treatment It's just a slow grind every day.

[Destiny 37]

Unicorn85

Great job coming back quickly and replying to posts in your thread!   

Looks like you are getting the hang of this.

Can I encourage you to go back and read Broken person's post again?  Anything in that post stand out to you or give you hope?

There is so much we can work with you on, without involving your husband at all.  I see potential for great progress.

This isn't for a second to "blame" you for the situation or to suggest you are at "fault"...it is supposed to give you HOPE that this can get better, even if your husband chooses not to participate.

How does that sound?  Ready to dig in?

Last:  I want to echo others that have encouraged you to be kind to yourself and "recharge".  We need you at your best! 

What kind of things do you do in order to "recharge"?

Best,

FF

Thank you

I will go back and read it again and come back to you. Sorry I find it all a bit head frying and we’ve had a couple of very difficult days which I feel I've managed well but it takes it’s toll so I need to switch off for a couple of days. However I’m not abandoning my post so please don’t think that. I will come back to you very soon. Thanks for your help so far.

[Destiny 37]

Unicorn - I'm glad You're coming to the realization that he's never going to change.  I have OCPD and I can tell you firsthand That it is so hard To change a personality disorder and I WANT to change mine.  I've been working on mine for 15 years Having known what it is And even with lotta time and effort and Professional treatment It's just a slow grind every day.

My biggest problem is that he views me as the enemy most of the time when I’ve constantly tried to keep our family together. I told him last night when he got angry with our older child and I had to step in, that I’m trying to help him and he needs to trust my judgement on situations like last night. That I’ll always tell him if he did nothing wrong but equally I will always say when he was out of line. He wants us all to be perfect and holds unrealistic standards for us all. I made that point last night and told him his 11 year old daughter doesn’t have an easy life, he’s not easy and she’s becoming a teen. She’s going to push back and we can’t keep expecting perfection from her it’s ridiculous.

[fisher101]

When we discuss his blow ups he constantly says I think I’m whiter than white. That I do no wrong. Every blow up is explained with me being the cause with a “but my behaviour was bad” at the end. So it’s an admission but with the blame for it always laid solely at my door. Most people when verbally attacked will defend themselves. I’m not unique in that situation. I’ve not helped things prior to diagnoses as I would call him awful names when he would explode. It was out of frustration and hurt. I never meant anything I said but that’s all he focuses on so in his mind I’m just as bad as he is. He even tried to convince me at one point that I also have BPD. I don’t. I have ptsd which is triggered by his explosions. So fight or flight kicks. Fight normally wins. So I have to battle it hard. However I know I don’t cause the massive explosions. That’s all on him.

One observation..."but my behavior was bad" is just another way to avoid accountability. That phrasing externalized the fault. He is referring to his behavior as it were some 3rd party. It's kind of like an apology with an explanation...it's not an apology its an excuse.

[formflier]

My biggest problem is that he views me as the enemy most of the time when I’ve constantly tried to keep our family together. I told him last night when he got angry with our older child and I had to step in, that I’m trying to help him and he needs to trust my judgement on situations like last night. That I’ll always tell him if he did nothing wrong but equally I will always say when he was out of line.  

 
Hey...Unicorn85

I find it's often helpful to look a "big picture" or "themes" that are going on in these emotionally charged "discussions" (how is that for being polite?)

Please understand this is not about who is right or if it was appropriate to step into conflict between your child and her father.

Whenever you step back and see there is an argument about "good and evil"..."right and wrong"..."yes or no" please realize this is playing right into the kind of arguments pwBPD excel at..and most nons just make the relationship worse by attempting to beat a pwBPD at their own game.  (I hope this makes you smile...and makes a point.  If you choose to wrestle in the mud with a pig...what is the likely outcome and who is likely to "win"?)

pwBPD often see the world in "dichotomous ways"...only two alternatives.  We as nons understand situations are rarely yes or no, plenty of options...lots of nuance.


Now look at the interaction...your pwBPD thinks you are the enemy and you are apparently arguing you are the savior.   I'm not saying "never" have those discussions...but certainly saying more often than not..they go badly.

To the decision to step in (again taking big picture look)...did you really "have to" or did you "choose to"?  If someone else always solves/stops/intervenes in their discussions...how does their relationship ever mature?  (again..yes there are times I recommend people choose to intervene..that's a different discussion)

Last...remember pwBPD have weird emotional logic.  Us figuring that out is reading tea leaves at best.

However...can you see how he would be alarmed that you are asking him to trust his enemies and let someone else "always" be the judge of his actions/relationships/words?

This is hard stuff, so be kind to yourself as you look at different aspects of this.  Read several times.

Figuring out the nuance is the key to less conflict...not "winning" yes/no arguments.

Keep up the hard work...!

Best,

FF