I should leave, but I don't want to because I lover her

[Good Intentions]

Hello everyone,

Although I'm new to bpdfamily.com as of today, I first began familiarizing myself with BPD about 6 months ago. My relationship with my girlfriend has been defined by chaos & conflict over the last 3 years (first 12 months was the typical bliss of the honeymoon phase), and it was during one of my recurring bouts of confusion & despair that I frantically scoured the internet for some sort of answer/help...my random Google searches of "why does my partner truly believe that I want to fight" or "why does my partner refuse to believe that I love them" finally paid off when I stumbled upon a Reddit forum discussing BPD/NPD in June 2021.

It took me about 3 months to gather my thoughts/work up the courage to try to approach her to discuss this extremely sensitive topic. For about 2 years leading up to that discussion, we frequently discussed something we referred to as her "shadow monster" which would consume her when she experienced feelings of being unloved, unwanted, deprioritized, or really just hurt in any way. So she was fairly open to my presenting her with the possibility that this BPD thing could be the cause of so many unstable relationships in her past & present, and she was able to see how she pretty clearly met all but 1 of the 9 "official" criteria. She also has a history of mental illness on both sides of her family, including both parents & 2 siblings.

But for the first couple months after we had that conversation, almost nothing was done to "own" her BPD. There were a number of reasons for that - life got busy (it was the holiday season), work was busy, it takes time to move from "denial" to "acceptance"...I think I also became a bit resentful (which she could feel) during this time period as I then realized what the issue was, and I saw her BPD in every one of our irrational conversations where she would escalate, provoke, gaslight, criticize, threaten, scream/yell/cuss, hit me, but then never be able to take accountability or see how that behavior might lead to me reacting poorly to her. So naturally, that only made me want to "force educate" her more which just turned her off to the idea because it felt like I was trying to label her/blame her/make her out to be "the problem".

Since then, I've tried to be far less forceful, and she has committed to attending a DBT workshop, staying in therapy, etc.

But last night, she broke up with me. She has threatened to do so dozens of times before. She has physically said the words "we're done" or "I don't love you & I don't want to be with you" so, so many times before. But last night the tone was more one of confidence that she was making the right decision. She said she had to trust her gut. She told me that she didn't want me to feel unloved, that she wanted me to know I'm special & worthy - things that she struggled to say at any point of conflict during 4 years of dating. She was clearly very sad, but I did sense some level of her being at peace with her decision.

Her reasoning was that we're incapable of resolving conflict because of my innate defensiveness. She blames me & my ego for the unproductive conversations we always find ourselves in. She appreciates our relationship/everything I've done for her, she cherishes the memories, but there's something about me that makes conflict resolution impossibly difficult.

My perspective - just like many, many people with BPD, to my partner her feelings are facts, any disagreement = rejection. Me having a different perspective/opinion that I think is worthy of sharing = me "arguing about dumb s***". Anything that isn't exactly in line with what she thinks & feels = invalidation to her. And because I do want to be heard, and I do need to feel like my perspective is valued, I will eventually express my opinion (after first trying to empathize with her feelings) which almost never goes well.

I was completely speechless because going into our scheduled conversation last night, I thought I was going to be the bearer of bad news - that I don't think she truly gets any of this. Does she know why she signed up for DBT? For real change to occur, the primary motivation has to be internal, and in order to have that motivation, I would think that you first have to know what the problem is, who it's hurting, how it typically plays out, etc.

I think she knows she has BPD, and she knows that DBT will help. But does she know WHAT that is aiming to help? Does she want to understand that she filters any stressful or challenging situation through a distorted & reactive emotional lens? Does she understand that her "gut" / the instincts that she thinks she should trust are actually a complex mental disorder? I think she knows that she really struggles with empathy, or saying "I'm sorry" or "I forgive you". And she recognizes that those are skills like anything else that must be practiced in order to develop. But acknowledging how her BPD is creating these terribly toxic patterns in our relationship seems like a step too far for her.

I love this woman so much, but if we're not both seeing her BPD for what it is - a real disability that affects the way she interacts with the world - I don't know how we can move forward together. And now that she has so confidently broken up with me, it doesn't seem like fighting for the relationship is the right thing to do...for one, it could cement the idea in her head that if she resorts to extremes (breaking up), it will get her what she wants (endless love & affection & the comfort of knowing that she can successfully manipulate me into bending over backwards for her). Another reason - I feel extremely helpless and hurt by all of this, and I know that I probably need to prioritize myself in some way that doesn't include her/the thought of our relationship. Like so many people in relationships with pwBPD, I have become even more codependent than I was naturally disposed to being when I entered the relationship (which was already pretty high - I'm definitely a "helper/fixer/rescuer" who unknowingly enabled her controlling ways by rushing to placate her irrational emotions, even at my expense).

I know that I have a ton to work on, and I certainly have been guilty of some emotional volatility/outburts of my own (usually a bit provoked by the FOG from my BPD partner) which are 100% my responsibility and absolutely do contribute to some of our conflict resolution issues.

But I don't think she'll ever want to recognize that her BPD is without a doubt the most serious issue in our relationship. At least not with me...maybe my role in her life was just to be the one to help her bring awareness to its existence but I'm not the one to be in a healthy relationship with her.

I want to end my long first post with 2 quotes:
1) Dr. Tara J. Palmatier, “Sacrificing yourself at the altar of someone else’s pathology is not a measure of your love for them, it’s a measure of your willingness to be abused by them.”
2) From one of the most enlighting articles on BPD I've ever read (link below) - "Borderline Personality Disorder is perhaps the greatest paradox in the Analects of human psychology. It’s a disorder that craves love, but it doesn’t understand the meaning of mature love. It’s a disorder that seeks relationships, but it doesn’t grasp the dynamics and limits of healthy relationships. It’s a disorder that yearns for proximity, but it doesn’t trust the sincerity of anyone who gets too close. It’s a disorder that begs others to experience its suffering, but it cannot see that this is the very reason why it continues to suffer. It’s a disorder that desperately seeks liberation from the outside, but it doesn’t realize that transformation comes from within. It’s an existential insecurity that cannot believe in the power of accepting itself, because it was not accepted when it began. It’s an anachronism searching for an idealized form of attachment. It’s desire without a solution, and loneliness without resolution. It’s pain and terror cloaked in a bouquet of artificial flowers."

https://armchairdeductions.wordpress.com/2019/04/16/the-borderline-mother-matriarchy-and-its-discontents/

[BigOof]

I love this woman so much

Would it be more correct you love part of this woman so much? The other part of her you have to educate yourself on. There's no controlling it.

What steps are you taking to protect yourself?

[Good Intentions]

I know there's no controlling it (her BPD) or her as an individual...nor is that what I'm after.

I've spent months reading books (High Conflict Couple, Loving Someone with BPD) and diving into this & other message boards, soaking up as much information as possible.

I think what I want more than anything is a mutual understanding between us that sure, maybe I can get defensive in a way that really frustrates her, but it's also highly probably that what she perceives as "defensive" as actually just me disagreeing with her/me having a unique opinion of my own.

And I know that to be true, but what good is that knowledge if we don't have consensus around it?
If she truly thinks that me being "defensive" is the problem, and she isn't able to recognize that what she identifies as "defensive" or "invalidating" is really just me being a human being with my own thoughts & emotions, how can we possibly ever resolve conflict?

To protect myself, I'm continuing to educate myself/engage in these public forums despite the fact that last night, she broke up with me in the most formal way yet during our 4 years of dating (during which time she has repeatedly threatened the relationship). I'm also prioritizing my mental health by taking a trip with some friends that will allow me to think about myself and my life outside of the context of our relationship. Nature heals!

[ForeverDad]

It is/was a dysfunctional relationship.  BPD, NPD, and all the other PDs, whether acting-out or acting-in, all share two words... personality disorder.  What that means is that their perceptions and behaviors are skewed — for some more so and for others less so — away from what is considered a normal range of perceptions, traits and behaviors.

I presume you would agree that her life, perceptions and behaviors are dysfunctional, right?  And that would mean your relationship was dysfunctional, right?  Then wouldn't you extend that to realize your desire to continue with her is also, to some extent, dysfunctional?

Don't feel I'm unfairly picking on you.  We've all been there too.  We desperately tried to hold the wind in our hands, but failed despite our heroic efforts.  In some respects you're in a better position than many of us were.  How so?  Many of us were married and had a huge legal and financial struggle to unwind the marriage.  Many of us had children and had an even bigger struggle to obtain the "least bad" custody and parenting arrangements for ourselves and our children.  So, as bad as you feel now, many here have had even more complicated struggles that you haven't faced.

Let me make a distinction here.  She is disordered due to her core issues, internal ones.  On the other hand your dilemma is due to your situational issues, that is, you wouldn't be in this state (of wishing and hoping for something that isn't there) if it weren't for your relationship.

One goal you can have is this:  Listen to your head (logic & fact) and give your heart (emotions) the time it needs to catch up with the reality.

My lawyer went so far as to phrase it a bit more bluntly this way during my divorce:  "Think with your big head and not your little head."

[Good Intentions]

thanks for the reply @ForeverDad and I take no offense to your comments...I know they come from a place of love for me as a fellow human being, and I agree with you that so, so many have had even more complicated struggles.

I agree with your "transitive property" thinking - yes, the relationship is dysfunctional, and I guess my pwBPD & I just don't agree on what makes it dysfunctional. To her, it has to do with my irritability/defensiveness during conflict. To me, it's a serious mental disorder that completely distorts her perception & interpretation of pretty much everything involving our relationship. And the most painful part for me is that I no longer care that the problem BPD exists, I just want her to commit to helping herself (which will then greatly reduce my suffering)...

BPD is no longer this "boogeyman" with no available information or resources...it's not necessarily a relationship death sentence anymore because of amazing groups like this forum...but it absolutely is a relationship killer if she doesn't want to see her part/she lacks the internal motivation for change.

[ForeverDad]

I just want her to commit to helping herself (which will then greatly reduce my suffering)...

You can't live her life for her.  You tried to support her, encourage her but you have come face to face with one of the core BPD traits.  Among others, they include Blaming, Blame Shifting and... Denial.  If she denies it or excuses it, what more can you do?

Thus you are left with... what will YOU do?  Can you Let Go and Move On?

There's a thread here you should read... The Bridge.  Also this post, also within The Bridge's responses:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=65164.msg13138572#msg13138572

[redpoppy]

Good intentions,
Sorry that you are in this state.
I picked on your statement that she was "confident" when she broke up with you. My wild guess is that she was not confident at all; probably it's a cover, she needs to "abandon" you before you have a chance to "abandon" her.
Second, even though she had agreed to attend DBT, there is a chance that she didn't intend to follow through, and she felt that you were pushing her to change in ways she doesn't feel ready for. Maybe she had to break up with you so that she didn't have to change.

Her reasoning was that we're incapable of resolving conflict because of my innate defensiveness. She blames me & my ego for the unproductive conversations we always find ourselves in. She appreciates our relationship/everything I've done for her, she cherishes the memories, but there's something about me that makes conflict resolution impossibly difficult.

This statement sounds as if she is defensive, and is projecting. My uBPDh for years excessively criticized me and then told me I didn't take criticism well. Sometimes I even believed him. A part of this book describes people in defensive states and how you can set boundaries with them (Where to Draw the Line: How to Set Healthy Boundaries Every Day, Anne Katherine).

Also, ForeverDad, your post on the way helped me too:

Listen to your head (logic & fact) and give your heart (emotions) the time it needs to catch up with the reality.

[BigOof]

... maybe I can get defensive in a way that really frustrates her, but it's also highly probably that what she perceives as "defensive" as actually just me disagreeing with her/me having a unique opinion of my own...If she truly thinks that me being "defensive" is the problem, and she isn't able to recognize that what she identifies as "defensive" or "invalidating" is really just me being a human being with my own thoughts & emotions, how can we possibly ever resolve conflict?

This is a conflict cycle with a negative feedback loop. Defensive people and borderlines do not mix. Each time you're defensive, you're invalidating her. Borderlines need validation.

[Good Intentions]

@BigOof I appreciate your bluntness (I think)...I would like to be optimistic and say that I think my "defensiveness" is curable/treatable via recognition that my pwBPD is not someone I can go to for empathy.

Something that is usual pretty normal/natural in a relationship - giving & receiving empathy to/from the other person - isn't something I can depend on. And the stubbornness that I occasionally exhibit when wanting to "be seen" or share my feelings with her is something within my control. I can be mindful of the fact that in our relationship, I would have to accept an imbalance in the amount of validation I give her vs. what she provides me.

Or do you think I'm doomed no matter what?

[BigOof]

Good Intentions, I was in your exact situation. The problem is some accusations there's no option but to defend yourself. It's a slippery slope. You emotionally hurt me... you touched me... you physically hurt me... you hit me... you raped me.

Remember, you can go to jail for a violent crime (maximum security prison) just for allegedly touching someone. You're playing with fire.

What happens when you have children? You're not a good dad... you're drowning the child... you're hitting the child... you're sexually abusing the child. With children, you're guilty until proven innocent.

Do you see yourself with your BPD love at age 60?

[ForeverDad]

Her reasoning was that we're incapable of resolving conflict because of my innate defensiveness. She blames me & my ego for the unproductive conversations we always find ourselves in.

What is so wrong with being defensive?  Being defensive indicates a person is being attacked, whether overtly or covertly.  Can a relationship succeed with that behavior pattern?

When we say that JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain) is not a good strategy to use, it's not that there is anything wrong with JADE.  What is means is that logic and reason typically doesn't work with people who are so fully invested in their own perceptions and feelings.

[Good Intentions]

@ForeverDad

I really appreciate you validating that there's nothing "wrong" with JADE, it's just that it goes absolutely nowhere with a pwBPD because of the limitations of their ability to recognize another person's perspective & be empathetic to a different experience.

I do think that my defensiveness is a result of my feeling attacked (whether that be entirely real or imagined), and I agree that if it's a typical pattern for me to be attacked then the relationship will not succeed.

My significant other & I have not spoken since she broke up with me almost 2 weeks ago, and I'm wondering where she is mentally & emotionally. I'm sure she's struggling with at least some uncertainty, but the lack of contact from her leads me to believe that she wants to move on. But I know that's the "rational" line of thinking so alternatively, maybe she's so hurt by perceived abandonment that she's just trying to block me out of her mind entirely.

I wrote her a letter which I left on her porch a little over a week ago / a couple days after she dumped me (along with an overdue gift from Christmas that needed to be exchanged) and basically described how I could see the ways in which I struggled & failed in the relationship, but stating that I know I'm a healthier version of myself now than when we first met, and pleading with her to "see the light" & recognize that we can be together but it would require her to radically accept some ugly truths that she doesn't want to see.

Over the last 48 hours, I've come to regret the general angle of my note, and instead wish I would've said nothing at all & allowed this week to pass because I do think I want to reach out to her & try to talk, but I'm concerned that the tone of my note may not have been what she needed / it only served to cement in her head the idea that I'm only interested in getting my point across (and not willing to be empathetic to her which I promise I truly am).

I could use some coaching on how I should approach the situation now. To recap - girlfriend of almost 4 years with diagnosed BPD broke up with me (for the 2nd time in 2 years) a couple weeks ago, and hasn't communicated with me in any way since. I'm certain that she can't stand our prior relationship dynamic anymore - neither can I - but based on our last interaction (and several before it) I question her desire to work through issues with me, and I know that's a huge problem...her breakup was a direct communication that, in that moment, she no longer wanted to try to reconcile, but again, I don't know if that was an accurate reflection or not...it seems like it would be very typical of a pwBPD for that commitment to their partner (or really anyone in their life) to waver. But at some point, I know that I deserve to have that sense of faith & trust in my partner that comes from knowing & believing in their commitment to me as a flawed human being.

She knows that a breakup wasn't what I wanted then, and if we do try to reverse the breakup, at some point I'll probably really want an acknowledgement of the pain that her breaking up with me causes me to endure. But I don't even know if she's capable of that type of conversation (where she's required to be empathetic) much less if it's the type of person she wants to be for me. It's ironic that she broke up with me when she did - the week that she started a new DBT-based group therapy program which includes individual counseling with a therapist that specializes in BPD.

Maybe the right combination of space & support will create an environment where we both can grieve the loss of our "prior" relationship and then we can move forward together in the coming weeks, but I'm very anxious.

She's the maid of honor in a wedding in Italy in 2 weeks and I'm sure that's adding stress for her. She hates logistical planning (something I'm very good at & usually do for us when we travel together) and also I was supposed to be going with her - it was to be a romantic trip for us as much as a wedding for us to attend...I never bought flights because our relationship has been on the perpetual brink since the holidays but I know she's committed to going. That just seems like another factor that complicates when & how & with what gameplan I should next approach her.

Please help!

[CryingGame]

Dear Good Intentions,

There is a woman out there who will dance a lovely dance with you and your good intentions, you seem smart, passionate and compatible. I don't think it is this ill woman who you are very attached to. Of course you are attached after 4 years together.

I feel for you as I long for my BPD person to understand and honor the precious love relationship we have, as I am her daughter. Perhaps your own abandonment is being triggered making you leave that note and hold on to the hope. Perhaps your "picker" is broken in picking a partner. You may not be able to do this alone, with this forum and books ... therapy and a love addiction group could add a lot of value to your growth right now. I speak from experience.

I broke a pattern in my life of choosing bad for me partners by going to 12 step meetings three times a week, it was a magic number that helped me deal with the painful feelings of loss and the ups and downs of wanting to go back. The obsession is real ... partly because we need love and companionship as humans! That obsession is an invisible monster. I hope you find joy and clarity on your vacation!

[Good Intentions]

@CryingGame

I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my post - I know it's coming from a place of love for me as a fellow human being and someone struggling with a relationship involving BPD.

I do also heavily doubt if this person is right for me - and I think my direct communication of some of that doubt probably activated the fear of abandonment that my GF has dealt with for a long time - so I don't want their to be any confusion about me blindly jumping back into / staying in a toxic relationship. I do feel at peace with the reality of our situation, and the possibility that I've officially been discarded & shouldn't expect any sort of closure to come from her.

Maybe some part of me thought she might respond to my note, but I don't think it was a subconscious effort to try to convince her to change her mind. I really do just want her to be happy, and I feel like I'm able to more clearly see how her BPD manifests in a relationship than she is, so the goal of the note was really to communicate that more than being together, I just hope she can come to accept some of the ugly truths about her illness so she can recognize the severity. Because without that recognition & radical acceptance, she'll never have the internal motivation required to change. And I think for higher-performing pwBPD (social/outgoing, financially successful, attractive), it's probably even more challenging to accept the idea that the way they process the world isn't "normal".

[CryingGame]

Good Intentions,
Glad you felt the love. Your chosen name says a lot and sounds like you're hoping she'll have a "take-away" lesson that will help her later ... I'm sorry she hasn't had that lesson enough at this point. Loss is painful but also transformational.
CG

[Good Intentions]

I think what I truly want is for her to have the "take-away" lesson ASAP with the idea that our relationship is capable of being salvaged. I'm really struggling right now because I know that I've become somewhat attached to a person with a mental illness, and yet I still see a way through the forest. In my mind, there is hope & a reason to be optimistic - we know what the illness is! It has a name & a preferred treatment method & a community of people ready, willing, and able to support both pwBPD and their partners. What a blessing!

My GF didn't choose to have BPD, and I certainly didn't choose for my first serious relationship to be with someone with a complex & undiagnosed personality disorder. And I could be completely blinded by love & hoping for something that isn't realistic, but I have found myself over the last couple days feeling a very strong desire to talk to her.

But also, I'm considering our relationship from my perspective. To me, my partner expressing confidently that "I love you, I accept you, I won't abandon you, and I'm committed to being a part of your journey to conquer your BPD" would be such a wonderful & motivating thing. And yet, those words when spoken by me previously have completely fallen flat.

I haven't heard from her, and I don't know if I'm receiving the silent treatment (intentional manipulation), if she's consumed by sadness or regret or some other emotion, or if I've been completely discarded for good.

I'm considering calling her to see if she's open to meeting in-person to talk - with the idea being that I'm looking for a bit more closure...and confirmation that what she wants to do is end the relationship. Because quite frankly, I'm completely unsure what she wants, and the scarier part is that I don't think she knows what she wants either. Because it wasn't necessarily a relationship with me that she's been after over the last several years...it's just an escape from her own fear of abandonment.

Did she even want a relationship with me? Or am I just this object that exists to be manipulated into giving her what she thinks is "love" at precisely the moments that she wants?

[SinisterComplex]

So GI, some questions I pose to you...Do you Love yourself? I See all this about loving this woman. Everything is focused on her, but yet it seems like you are putting YOU well behind the 8-ball. So...do you love yourself? Do you like yourself? Do you respect yourself? What goals do you have for yourself?

What I ask for here in response is how you truly think and feel.

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC- 

[ForeverDad]

I'm considering calling her to see if she's open to meeting in-person to talk - with the idea being that I'm looking for a bit more closure...and confirmation that what she wants to do is end the relationship. Because quite frankly, I'm completely unsure what she wants, and the scarier part is that I don't think she knows what she wants either.

Most here would agree that you're unlikely to ever get the closure you seek from your disordered exGF.  "Closure is something you'll have to Gift yourself."

Did she even want a relationship with me? Or am I just this object that exists to be manipulated into giving her what she thinks is "love" at precisely the moments that she wants?

You may never get the answers you seek to existential questions like these.

If you do meet her, it would be wise to do so in a semi-public scenario.  You don't want to meet her privately, have her flame out, call the police and you have no witnesses that you were the one behaving normally.

[Good Intentions]

So GI, some questions I pose to you...Do you Love yourself? I See all this about loving this woman. Everything is focused on her, but yet it seems like you are putting YOU well behind the 8-ball. So...do you love yourself? Do you like yourself? Do you respect yourself? What goals do you have for yourself?

What I ask for here in response is how you truly think and feel.

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC- 

Hey SC - I really appreciate your questions, and I'll be as vulnerable & honest as I possibly can.

I do love myself. I think sometimes I don't totally respect myself, but I do love myself. However, for a solid 2+ years in my relationship with my GF with BPD, I absolutely showed more love to her than I did myself. I'm the helper/fixer/rescuer type (enneagram #2), and I spent a ton of time, energy & effort trying to fill the limitless love tank of my pwBPD which inevitably led to me getting super run down...and then I discovered that BPD was at the core of our issues which probably led to me feeling a bit resentful of the situation I was in.

So all of that to say, I do feel that I'm at a point right now in February 2022 which is different from where I've been the last 2+ years - I love myself more than I love this other person.

I also came into my relationship with a good amount of relationship insecurity - prior to this relationship (which I began at 26) I had never been in a serious relationship, and in 3 fairly distinct periods of my life, I chased & ultimately failed to win over the girl that I felt in love with at the time. So I do think I have some fear there, but I can openly acknowledge it without any sort of shame or embarrassment. And I'm trying to bring awareness to the possibility that my insecurity might be impacting my decision-making in a way that ultimately isn't serving me.

I do have goals for myself and they include a healthy relationship with a committed partner who encourages me. And I will not settle if this pwBPD in my life doesn't want to fully commit to the self-improvement that would be necessary for her to be that person with me.

 

[Good Intentions]

Most here would agree that you're unlikely to ever get the closure you seek from your disordered exGF.  "Closure is something you'll have to Gift yourself."

You may never get the answers you seek to existential questions like these.

If you do meet her, it would be wise to do so in a semi-public scenario.  You don't want to meet her privately, have her flame out, call the police and you have no witnesses that you were the one behaving normally.

@ForeverDad - you commented on another one of my posts...thanks again for the reply.

You made me realize that I misspoke when I said I'm looking for closure from a conversation with her. I feel like I have given myself that gift through self-education (via this forum & others like it) and the validation that I have received from my therapist & others who know my situation well. And I love the idea that closure is a gift you give yourself...so true!

I think it may be more accurate to say that I'm looking for clarity/confirmation that her last expression of what she thinks she wants (to end our relationship because of some irreconcilable difference that she sees as being generated from my end) is still what she wants. It has been a couple weeks of NC so I know she has had some time to herself to think. She just started a DBT course so she's seeing a new counselor that specializes in personality disorders...maybe I'm holding out hope that they've had some sort of mini-breakthrough / revelation. Probably foolish of me

PS - I agree with you regarding the existential question I posed. It's unanswerable, even by her.

[Good Intentions]

So GI, some questions I pose to you...Do you Love yourself? I See all this about loving this woman. Everything is focused on her, but yet it seems like you are putting YOU well behind the 8-ball. So...do you love yourself? Do you like yourself? Do you respect yourself? What goals do you have for yourself?

What I ask for here in response is how you truly think and feel.

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC- 

Hey @SC - when I initially responded (more like "reacted") to your questions, I answered that "yes, I do love myself" with the explanation that I'm now in a place where I want to choose to prioritize my mental health over anyone else's, including hers.

However, that isn't the same as loving myself, and I think your question was the right one because my inclination to derive my self-worth from her constantly shifting feelings towards me could ultimately be described as an indication that I'm severely lacking in self-love...

Thank you for the thought provoking question 

[Cat Familiar]

Let’s look at your situation from her point of view. (I realize we can speculate, but we can’t know for sure how all this has impacted her.)

You’ve identified that she is a flawed human being, in need of repair, and have directed her to healers who take on difficult cases.

Since people with BPD already feel so much shame and self loathing, how do you think this has made her feel?

She probably has struggled with things her entire life and felt *less than* and at fault. So now, this guy that she was close to has told her she needs to shape up and he’d gladly stand beside her on the path of doing so.

This isn’t like having diabetes or Crohn’s, it’s not a disorder for which she can take a substance and get treatment. It’s fundamentally telling her she’s no good as is.

I know you’ve done this with the best of intentions. Most of us here, me included, have done similar things. It doesn’t work.

To make lasting behavioral changes she has to be self motivated.

[Good Intentions]

Let’s look at your situation from her point of view. (I realize we can speculate, but we can’t know for sure how all this has impacted her.)

You’ve identified that she is a flawed human being, in need of repair, and have directed her to healers who take on difficult cases.

Since people with BPD already feel so much shame and self loathing, how do you think this has made her feel?

She probably has struggled with things her entire life and felt *less than* and at fault. So now, this guy that she was close to has told her she needs to shape up and he’d gladly stand beside her on the path of doing so.

I can visualize her emotional experience & see how my trying to bring awareness to her BPD may have potentially caused her to feel like even more of a failure / experience more feelings of shame & self-loathing, but like you said, the next words out of my mouth are "but despite this, I accept you because I know you want to work on yourself, and I love you & want to support you on that journey in whatever way possible." In my mind, that would be very reassuring!

But sometimes, I feel like in my attempts to assure my pwBPD, and "convince" her / prove to her that I do truly love her so much, it's almost as if that can equally backfire. From my experience, when my pwBPD becomes emotionally dysregulated, there is only 1 acceptable response from me - validation of their emotional experience.

And in this very illogical way, it seems like me trying to express confirmation of what I (and everyone else in our lives) already know to be true - that I love her & support her despite her illness - might almost make her more self-conscious because again, that's not what she feels. So even though I'm trying to "double down" on my expression of love, if it's not resonating with her, that attempt to make her feel secure could actually make her feel irrationally invalidated.

Does that make sense to anyone or have I gone way too far down the rabbit hole?

[Cat Familiar]

the next words out of my mouth are "but despite this, I accept you because I know you want to work on yourself, and I love you & want to support you on that journey in whatever way possible." In my mind, that would be very reassuring!

You don’t have BPD. 

I’ve found that one of the most difficult things is to remember that their brains are wired differently and what works with “nons” may not work with them.

But sometimes, I feel like in my attempts to assure my pwBPD, and "convince" her / prove to her that I do truly love her so much, it's almost as if that can equally backfire. From my experience, when my pwBPD becomes emotionally dysregulated, there is only 1 acceptable response from me - validation of their emotional experience.

You got it.    When she’s not dysregulated, there might be a chance of convincing her that you do love her. Unfortunately, due to the shame and self loathing that people with BPD feel on a regular basis, she is unlikely to retain that feeling over time.

And in this very illogical way, it seems like me trying to express confirmation of what I (and everyone else in our lives) already know to be true - that I love her & support her despite her illness - might almost make her more self-conscious because again, that's not what she feels. So even though I'm trying to "double down" on my expression of love, if it's not resonating with her, that attempt to make her feel secure could actually make her feel irrationally invalidated.

Does that make sense to anyone or have I gone way too far down the rabbit hole?

Exactly. The more you try to persuade her, the more she will dig in her heels and resist and think you’ve got an *agenda*.

[Good Intentions]

You don’t have BPD. 

I’ve found that one of the most difficult things is to remember that their brains are wired differently and what works with “nons” may not work with them.

You got it.    When she’s not dysregulated, there might be a chance of convincing her that you do love her. Unfortunately, due to the shame and self loathing that people with BPD feel on a regular basis, she is unlikely to retain that feeling over time.

Exactly. The more you try to persuade her, the more she will dig in her heels and resist and think you’ve got an *agenda*.

@Cat Familiar - sorry for not responding sooner...your targeted validation of the insight I began to develop right as I was being discarded hit me hard, and I've revisited this page/reread your responses a couple times.

Over the final couple months of my r/s with my ex-pwBPD, I felt aware (in real-time) of moments when my partner's BPD was manifesting and tried to respond the right way (don't JADE, only emotional validation). She & I had both long-since agreed that she had BPD (even before she got the official diagnosis) so I tried to be proactive in communicating potential sources of disaster - namely the fact that we were on the path towards a very painful & irrational discard of me as a human being. To which she of course replied with reassurance that that would never happened, she loved me, whatever BS she came up with to distract me from exposing the reality of a relationship with her/her BPD...but my point is, during the last few months I've had some level of internal peace because I had such greater clarity regarding our relationship after engaging with this forum.

The miserable part is that my awareness of the events as they unfolded didn't matter. My attempt to communicate reassurance, support, and love in a healthy way was helpless against a defense system decades in the making. And that hurts so much even though I know I shouldn't personalize it. And rationally, I know that me being so deeply hurt & upset that I wasn't able to win the approval/appreciation/affection of a particular person (who also happened to suffer from a mental disorder & mistreat me as a result) is reflective of a different issue entirely...

But I wanted to express that a part of me really needed the clarity that was only achievable through self-education of my partner's pathology. And again, I know that the focus should be on me / there's plenty of stuff worth self-examining and I continue to work with a therapist, but I've always struggled with this idea that I shouldn't "make it about her BPD" when in fact, our daily interactions, weekly conflict, monthly blow-ups are so obviously & easily explained by her BPD (and my total failure to enforce healthy boundaries).

The way that she discarded me is just so perfectly standard - we had been dating for 4 years, talked about moving in together, done both couples & marriage counseling, were very aligned on our values as adults/parents, compatible from a chemistry perspective...and then literally week 1 of her 6-month DBT workshop, she determines that she "no longer sees me as a part of her future".

She deleted me from all social media, has made no effort to contact me since, and during our last conversation she made no admission of wrongdoing in the relationship, she didn't attempt to explain what she meant by "I don't see a future with you." or why she felt comfortable with such a major life-altering decision after years together.

I feel like I've seen her BPD for what it is - a serious mental illness that will continue to f*** with her until, and possibly even if, she commits to therapy/DBT for the long-term - for several months now. I know that I got to a place where I was genuinely able to accept that "a relationship with this particular person will be far more work for potentially less reward even if she chooses to work on herself vs. a relationship with someone else", but rather than choose to believe my acceptance of her / love for her despite her mental illness, it seems like in this very stereotypical way, my communication of my awareness of who she was as a partner seemed to drive her to push me away.

Either afraid that I'll eventually leave her, or maybe afraid that she won't succeed in DBT, it seems like her brain has told her that she'd rather lose our relationship than embark on the difficult path of meaningful change that would result in her becoming a more empathetic, loving partner.

And again, that's hard not to personalize...I was the first person to make her aware that BPD even existed, I was patient with her while she slowly accepted her diagnosis, and I encouraged her to get into therapy in whatever forum worked best for her. So it's hard not to interpret her dismissal of me from her life as the deeply personal rejection because I felt like I had "accepted" a much more difficult partner than the man I am in a relationship.

But like I've heard and needed to have reiterated so many times, nothing about her behavior is about me. None of it. It's all about her. It's all projection. And I feel like I'm having to convince my brain to do some unorthodox thinking just to break free of the mental cloud of this relationship.   

[ForeverDad]

...and then literally week 1 of her 6-month DBT workshop, she determines that she "no longer sees me as a part of her future".

That observation you just made reminded me of aspect made here by prolific poster and site "den mother" JoannaK many years ago:

One of our most prolific posters some 5-10 years ago was JoannaK.  In a few of her posts she made an observation that meshes well with your comments.  She wrote that if persons do work to attain some recovery then they would not be the same persons as before and there was a real possibility the relationship would not survive, one or both had changed that much.

[BigOof]

if persons do work to attain some recovery then they would not be the same persons as before and there was a real possibility the relationship would not survive, one or both had changed that much.

Insightful.

[Good Intentions]

Forgive me but I'm having trouble discerning the meaning...

is the premise that post-recovery**, one or both individuals will have changed/matured to such an extent that a relationship between the two would no longer be possible/desired?

**recovery for my ex-pwBPD = recognition/acceptance of her disorder & commitment to therapy
**recovery for me = identifying my own codependency / understanding why I derived my self-worth from another person 

and also @ForeverDad - why did my particular comment about her discarding me at the very beginning of something that should have been a reason for optimism (DBT therapy program) remind you of JoannaK's comment?

[ForeverDad]

@ForeverDad - why did my particular comment about her discarding me at the very beginning of something that should have been a reason for optimism (DBT therapy program) remind you of JoannaK's comment?

We don't know what triggered her to react to you that way.  Possibly it was something discussed in that first session, you may never know.  But it reminded me of prior posts that there is no guarantee that if a person does manage a level of recovery from BPD over time that the relationship will be "fixed".  Maybe, but also maybe not.  That's all I meant.

[Good Intentions]

We don't know what triggered her to react to you that way.  Possibly it was something discussed in that first session, you may never know.  But it reminded me of prior posts that there is no guarantee that if a person does manage a level of recovery from BPD over time that the relationship will be "fixed".  Maybe, but also maybe not.  That's all I meant.

I hadn't really considered the possibility that something related to her first session may have prompted the break-up, but agreed that I'll probably never know, and I shouldn't have to know to have peace.

And I agree with you that some level of recovery from BPD over time does not equate to "problem solved/relationship fixed/issues cured"