Is my father in a relationship with a pwBPD

[PeteWitsend]

Hello.  I've posted quite a bit on other boards here (my XW checks most of the boxes for BPD but was not diagnosed), but up until recently, never suspected anyone else in my family (using that term loosely to include in-laws) of being on the spectrum.  Wanted to get some others' thoughts. 

Here's the situation:  I've had an on-and-off relationship with my father over the years.  We'll have some good times, followed by periods of NC.  My parents are divorced. 

I've always reached out to re-establish contact, regardless of the reason the NC started in the first place (sometimes he just seems to disappear).   

My father has been in a long term r/s with the same woman (Person X) he had an affair with when he was married to my mom.  He's STILL dodgy about their relationship status 20+ years later... he won't admit if they are married or not, and she lives separately in another part of town.  If pressed on topics he's not comfortable discussing, he basically goes NC himself, so I generally don't push too hard, accepting this as the cost of maintaining a r/s with him.  Person X apparently still shares a house with her ex-husband.  I can't believe my dad tolerates this situation, but... it's his life, not mine. 

I've met Person X a few times, and - even though I know the score here - I've always been polite to her, and even bought her presents on occasion when we were there at Xmas.  She was generally pleasant at first.  I think she was afraid of me initially, or afraid that I'd be hostile to her, but over the years, any pleasant attitude seemed to dissipate more into indifference.  I haven't talked to her or seen her for a long time now (probably 9 years).  Haven't seen my dad in 6. 

During my marriage to uBPDxw, Person X would - according to my XW - call her and dish dirt about my mom.  This would have the effect of pouring fuel on the fire... my BPDxw did not get along with my mom (or anyone else in my extended family), and we would usually end up fighting after BPDxw would get a call from Person X.  Some of the things Person X would claim about my mom were simply not true, and others were unclear, but very bizarre allegations nevertheless that seem way out of character to my mom.  This would piss me off, but I didn't confront my dad about it at the time b/c I had enough problems at home, and it seemed like it would only broaden the conflict. 

For the record, my mom and Person X never met in person, or spoke on the phone.  Person X has no connection whatsoever to my mom, other than her affair with my dad. 

Also during my marriage, on one occasion my dad visited us, and a late night discussion turned into an awkward hate session, where my dad and my XW both ranted about how terrible my mom and her family are, which was... bizarre to put it mildly. 

After I got divorced, my dad just stopped responding to me.  I'd even send him cards at xmas/gifts, and would get nothing in return.  I learned - from my daughter - after a year he was sending her gifts at my XW's house, which enraged me, but I didn't do anything about at the time, because well, I didn't see the point. 

Well, after about 3 years of NC, I reached out to him again, and we talked a few times.  I had some positive life changes I wanted to share with him, and wanted to be the bigger man here.  Things seemed... ok. 

But then I recently learned from my D that my father again sent her xmas presents to my XW's house, and when I called him to ask him about why he was doing this, suddenly he's NC again... he suddenly won't answer, won't return my call, nothing. 

My brother is convinced Person X is behind all this, and that she views us as a "threat" to her.  My dad apparently pays all her bills.  On some occasions, my brother needed a place to stay, or some help from my dad, and he said Person X will openly tell my dad not to help him (he's witnessed this first hand). 

My dad's continuing connection to my BPDxw, and BPDxw's close confidence with Person X leads me to wonder if BPD is a common element here.  Thoughts? 

[PeteWitsend]

After reading through that, I want to be clear I don't think my dad is BPD... his behavior generally is not what I'd consider normal, but growing up I never witnessed any abuse or dodgy behavior at home.  He didn't really have any of the BPD traits in any strong or persistent sense. 

[Riv3rW0lf]

Hi Petewitsend,

I mean... Missing a lot of backstory and, even reading between the lines here, I don't think it possible to answer your question. And in the grand scheme of things, I'm not sure it matters (to know whether she is BPD or not). What jumps at me, from your story, is a son wondering why his father would turn his back on him, and prefer his ex to him (in a way)... A son who possibly felt and still feel abandoned by his father, and it stands to reason that you would feel this way... I certainly would.

The thing is... Whether she is BPD or not changes nothing to the decision your father is making. We often tend, when looking at BPD, to blame the borderline person for everything that goes wrong... But enablers also have to be kept responsible for their own decision.

You mentioned, in your post, that your father tends to evade the subject of his girlfriend, and proceed to go no contact with you when you bring it up... Well... This is some kind of emotional abuse toward you, ain't it? I personally hated when my uBPDm would subject me to the silent treatment, one of her worst weapon. Even if he is not BPD, he certainly does not sound emotionally mature to me from your story. Any way you can confront him on HIS decision to send the gifts to your ex instead of you? Or ask why, by simply being honest about how it makes you feel? Is he usually opened to your needs and feelings? Other than not talking about his girlfriend, what kind of relationship do you guys have, superficial or honest?

[Turkish]

Unhealthy triangulation doesn't require BPD, and it sounds like a lot of it has been going on here for many years. The common denominator is your dad. The "kept woman" may or may not have BPD, but this is all on your dad.

[Goldcrest]

PeteWitsend The thing that jumped out at me too is the way your dad treats you. That you are working so hard to avoid him suddenly going no contact, if he doesn't like something he just cuts you off. If that was me I would find that really painful.

[PeteWitsend]

Hi Petewitsend,

I mean... Missing a lot of backstory and, even reading between the lines here, I don't think it possible to answer your question. And in the grand scheme of things, I'm not sure it matters (to know whether she is BPD or not). What jumps at me, from your story, is a son wondering why his father would turn his back on him, and prefer his ex to him (in a way)... A son who possibly felt and still feel abandoned by his father, and it stands to reason that you would feel this way... I certainly would. ...

Yeah, you're right.  I actually realized this too after I posted and read through my own post, but it was too late to go back and edit!

I suppose whether Person X is BPD is more or less a curiosity; I don't have any relationship with this person, and now that I'm divorced from uBPDxw, have no reason to concern myself with this drama.  But at the time, it was always a little surprising to me who in my family my XW seemed to "bond" with, although in almost every case, it was not an innocent bond, but always stirring conflict against some other party.  I wondered if there's a tendency for pwBPD to identify with others who are "on the spectrum" cases like this. 

XW definitely seemed to thrive on drama and conflict, and so maybe regardless of whether Person X is BPD as well, the fact that it served as an "in" for my XW to relive my own parent's divorce issues was enough.  Who knows?

I don't know much about Person X (never really wanted to know), but I understand she had some family issues; her sister and brother both have mental problems and are dysfunctional adults (one or both might be deceased now).  I remember my dad complaining to me how they had to clean up her sister's house when they put her in a home; she was a hoarder. 

I also recall hearing a story that Person X grew up with an alcoholic parent, so the potential for abuse and instability was there; I think she might have mentioned that when I brought wine for Thanksgiving one year.  She's very much obsessed with presenting herself in a certain way... they live in a college town, and although Person X never actually attended college, she dresses the part of an adjunct professor, and claims she's an "animal rights activist" (although according to my brother, who is politically active in the area, when he asked her what sort of activism she took part in, all she could come up with was that she once took a dead animal to a veterinary clinic to be buried instead of leaving it in the yard... ) 

That's really all the backstory I have.  I know my issues with my dad are what matters here, and whether or not Person X is BPD doesn't concern me, beyond wondering if the fact that there seems to be some sort of bond there b/t them and my XW indicates anything along those lines.

[Riv3rW0lf]

It could be.

One could also exhibit BPD traits without being BPD. My uBPDm has one friendship that lasted. The woman she is friend with is absolutely not BPD. My uBPDm can hold it very well with friends, generally. It's only in her own house that all the traits come out.

In her own house, she exhibits 9 of the 9 BPD traits, although she stopped drinking years back, so I guess that would be one less now. Outside of her house, she exhibits none, but comes out more as a bright shiny person, she just has a way to get the attention. She is also not completely devout of empathy. She can certainly provide it to her friends... Just not to her children and boyfriend.

BPD is highly complex and I do think it expresses itself a bunch of different ways and vary on the observer as well.

She might be, or she might just respond well to BPD people because of her own trauma. Like my uBPDm's friend come from a house of abuse. And while she is not BPD herself, she can clearly swim the BPD waters very well. My stepfather was beaten as a child and his mother had deep issues, so he can stand my uBPDm as well, even though she almost drove him to suicide (he told me that recently... I couldn't believe it.) Just to say that clearly, he can also swim the BPD waters...

All this to say: I have no idea if BPD people attracts each other and can stand each other more easily or not. But I do think that in order to be able to continue and pursue "happily" a relationship with someone that has BPD, one has to be used to abuse and trauma somehow.

[Notwendy]

The dynamics in a family where there is alcohol addiction can be similar to those where a person has BPD and they can be intergenerational. There are also other reasons for dysfunction. It's interesting to look at family patterns as they may be of help to us when we look at our own. In ACA one learns that one can learn these patterns when growing up in a dysfunctional family, even if we are not dysfunctional ourselves.

One thing that seems clear in your posts is a father whose love, or attention to you, is inconsistent. He, himself, is emotionally unavailable to you. Emotional unavailability doesn't have to be caused by BPD. It can be from any addiction, alcoholism, being absent due to work, or being co-dependent on a disordered spouse. Whatever the cause, it affects a child to have emotionally unavailable parents, and sets the stage for us to choose emotionally unavailable partners due to feelings of low self worth.

Your father's relationships are inconsistent- he didn't stay with your mother, he cheated on her, and he's in some kind of relationship with a disordered person, and his relationship with you is not consistent, not up front. As a kid, we see our parents as not available to us because somehow we aren't good enough. Our parents seem so much bigger and stronger, we just can't see them as having flaws. But they are human like anyone else, and your Dad's inconsistency with relationships is with all of them, not just you. It's not you.

Loving someone who can not love us the way we want them to is a difficult situation, especially when that person is a parent. We can't change them, but I think we can look at our own patterns and learn our own self worth. You have left a dysfunctional marriage. Now is an opportunity to do some self work, gain self worth- so that you don't make a similar choice again.

[PeteWitsend]

... We can't change them, but I think we can look at our own patterns and learn our own self worth. You have left a dysfunctional marriage. Now is an opportunity to do some self work, gain self worth- so that you don't make a similar choice again.

I've done that part; I have a healthy sense of self-worth and confidence, and for me, those largely came from career success, from having my own family, and other healthy relationships in life, that put less-healthy relationships (such as the one with my dad) in perspective.  I.E.  when other people don't treat me the way I want to be treated, it doesn't hurt my sense of self-esteem.

What bothers me about my dad's behavior is how he makes himself out to be the victim, when it's either his own lack of responses that leads to NC situations, or his own actions that lead to them.  A couple years ago, after a long period of NC, my brother reached out, and got some rambling response that he (my dad) was not happy with how we treat him.  And this was after he went NC and stopped responding to text messages from either of us... it's all in writing!  you could look and see who didn't respond last!

I suspect if his GF/partner/wife(?) is BPD, I can understand the dynamic of where this idea is coming from, as I have sneaking suspicions (both from my own and my brother's interactions with our dad) that whenever things appear to be getting "normalized," she intervenes to poison the well, so to speak.  We'll have positive conversations with him, sometimes make plans to follow-up, or send photos of something, or talk about something again.  Then a day goes by, he presumably mentions our conversations to her, and then... rather than confront her vitriol toward us, he disappears again. 

I suppose on some level, this bothered me enough that I felt a need to fight for this relationship, or at least to correct the record that, "Hey, YOU went NC, not me/us, and your awful GF did and said XYZ, but we've just been too polite to bring it up"...

but you're right that I need to just let it go, as false & unfair as his actions might be.  There's no "record" to change; we're not in court, and there's no judge or jury to convince. 

[Methuen]

What jumps out at me about all this is that you are trying to rationalize and understand what is going on with your dad.  This could make you go crazy friend.  There is no way to rationalize or understand people who are irrational.  It could be a waste of your energy.  Maybe better to put that energy into more productive things.

It strikes me that it really bothers you that he sends gifts to your daughter through your ex.   I think that could bother a lot of people.  But by letting him know that it bothers you, you have just handed him a ton of power to potentially torture you with in the future.  Maybe you don't have to give him that? 

He sounds like he could be kinda dysfunctional - or at least he certainly shows some consistently dysfunctional behavior over time.  These people don't change unless they do a lot of work with a T over a long period of time.  I had to give up on hoping my mom would "see the light" one day.  She is who she is.

At the end of the day it probably doesn't matter if it's BPD or something else.  Those things are just distractions.  You can't change him.  You can only change your reactions to him.  How can you do that?