BPD separating you from your family

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I read a common symptom of abuse is that targets of abuse are alienated from their families.  I've read it on here many times, too.

For those of you that have experienced this, can you share what the situation was, how it progressed, and how it was justified in the BPDs mind?

I feel like the frog in the boiling water.  I haven't seen my parents but twice in two years.  That they live two hours away is part of it.  COVID is also part of it.  But I coming to realize BPDw is a major part of it. 

For awhile it was that "we were too busy" or that my parents "can't make plans" and just want to stop by when they are in town.  Then it was that my parents weren't being covid safe ("we don't know where they have been or who they have been hanging out with - I don't trust them!").  Then it was BPDw not feeling "emotionally safe" around my mom.  And then there was a serious incident involving two of my siblings kids, and BPDw disagrees with my parents bout how they handled it. 

So BPDw has not wanted to see my parents for two years.  But she also doesn't want the kids to see my parents without her because she says she does not trust my parents.  Covid conveniently hid this issue, but now it is becoming more obvious to me that BPDw is holding my parents to a higher, impossible standard than anyone else.  She insists she is not trying to keep me or the kids from them, and says she wants us to have a relationship with them, but her criteria for having a relationship are simply unreasonable, illogical, impossible, etc. 

And yes, I know - when the time comes I am going to likely file divorce and get a court order that says I can take the kids to see my parents for the weekend and she can't say boo about it.  But for now I am at a loss.  BPDw feels totally justified.  If she doesn't want to see my parents - fine.  But she would have an issue if I took the kids to meet them on my own, and I think she would still rant and rave if I went to go visit them without the kids.  She insists she would have no problem, but she completely dysregulated yesterday because I spent an hour on the phone with my dad for the first time in a few months.

[maxsterling]

I read a common symptom of abuse is that targets of abuse are alienated from their families.  I've read it on here many times, too.

For those of you that have experienced this, can you share what the situation was, how it progressed, and how it was justified in the BPDs mind?

I feel like the frog in the boiling water.  I haven't seen my parents but twice in two years.  That they live two hours away is part of it.  COVID is also part of it.  But I coming to realize BPDw is a major part of it. 

For awhile it was that "we were too busy" or that my parents "can't make plans" and just want to stop by when they are in town.  Then it was that my parents weren't being covid safe ("we don't know where they have been or who they have been hanging out with - I don't trust them!").  Then it was BPDw not feeling "emotionally safe" around my mom.  And then there was a serious incident involving two of my siblings kids, and BPDw disagrees with my parents bout how they handled it. 

So BPDw has not wanted to see my parents for two years.  But she also doesn't want the kids to see my parents without her because she says she does not trust my parents.  Covid conveniently hid this issue, but now it is becoming more obvious to me that BPDw is holding my parents to a higher, impossible standard than anyone else.  She insists she is not trying to keep me or the kids from them, and says she wants us to have a relationship with them, but her criteria for having a relationship are simply unreasonable, illogical, impossible, etc. 

And yes, I know - when the time comes I am going to likely file divorce and get a court order that says I can take the kids to see my parents for the weekend and she can't say boo about it.  But for now I am at a loss.  BPDw feels totally justified.  If she doesn't want to see my parents - fine.  But she would have an issue if I took the kids to meet them on my own, and I think she would still rant and rave if I went to go visit them without the kids.  She insists she would have no problem, but she completely dysregulated yesterday because I spent an hour on the phone with my dad for the first time in a few months.

[zaqsert]

It does seem to be a tactic they use to attempt to control the environment and the narrative.

Years ago, my uBPDw felt she had been wronged terribly by my parents and my brother, and she was adamant that I was blind to it. She insisted that we (that included me) not see them for a while. I was deep in the FOG and wanting to improve our marriage (believing I could), so I agreed.

Not seeing them wasn't all that hard. We only saw them 1-2 times a year anyway because of the distance between us. At first I avoided phone conversations too, but that never felt right.

We were going through a bad period around then. I put my foot down enough to say that I'm not going to cut people out of my life, much less family. (She had a history of cutting others out.) She didn't like it and probably went through an extinction burst, but I stuck to it.

Soon enough I started to chat with my family pretty regularly again. At some point my parents mentioned it was clear to them that my wife was avoiding them. There are only so many phone conversations you can have where the spouse just "happens" not to be there.

Sometimes she'd disappear when I got on the phone with them. Other times she said she would never go on a trip with them or to see them ever again. But she has yet to skip a trip I've gone on. She does still try to pin it on me, "I hate trips with your family, and I did it just because of you!" That is, despite the fact that she's the one who chose to go. But never mind that logic.

Eventually she opened up to interacting with my parents again. For the most part, she acted as though nothing had ever happened.

After that, periodically she'd still be triggered by my family. This has been a recurring source of tension and problems between us. Over time it started to sink in that it wasn't so much my family that was the problem, but rather my wife's reaction to them.

For the past year and a half, she's been dysregulating far more often. She has badmouthed my family and accused them of having mistreated her horribly. I was there. I know it didn't happen as she says. So I've often ignored it, and I continue to stay in touch with them. We have a daughter, and I continue to keep her in touch with her grandparents.

Eventually, I had to come to terms with the fact that I pick my own relationships and those I want to help our daughter foster. I choose to make my own choices about the relationships I keep.

My wife tried to disparage two of my closest friends too over the years. Similar story as above, and now each of those friends and I are as close as ever. They happen to be among the very, very few people who I can talk with openly about the craziness we have at home.

My wife has also had her ups and downs with her own friends. She got close with our daughter's friend's mom. Then she decided that person mistreated her (oh, and I didn't "support" her in seeing it as she did, I "never" back her up) and went cold. Then she warmed up again, selectively. Now she has a new favorite close friend and possibly confidante. Unfortunately, we'll see how long that lasts.

[whirlpoollife]

It’s progress that you are aware of that alienation . It took me many years.
Long story , short…xh and I lived in his parents state , mine across many lines. His choice. 
Pre cell phone days… If any of my siblings  called , right away xh would ask to talk to them , kept them on the phone to the point that when I got the phone back siblings ran out of time to talk to me,    or he would he would be right in my face while I talked.    Or the ones that didn’t want to talk to him, he degraded them to me, like it was horrible for me to talk these people!    I worked it to call my parents only if xh was not home.    The one week a year or two to visit ,  xh would be right in my face to take over any conversations with any one. Not joining in conversation but he would shoo me away to go do something else.
Back at home with xh, this actually started right in the beginning  of the marriage I was forbidden to talk about my family, like current news or history    Any talk on family was just his family. After we had children I again had to be careful to not speak to kids of my family while in his presence.
Isolation and jealousy.  I lost many years of family gatherings and happenings  ….to be the good , no backbone wife. 
Max I’m glad you talked to your dad for an hour, if she dysregulates  again  stand your ground/boundaries , by saying that is what you need, that having your family relationship is important to you.  ( not her ranting, but don’t say it)  And leave it at that.

[alleyesonme]

I would imagine just about all of us here have dealt with this.

My ex would grill me about every single phone call or text I got - asking who it was, how long we talked, what we talked about, if they said anything about her, etc. She would also listen in on every conversation she could. She would then bring up these conversations during just about every fight even if I was talking to another male or a relative - example: SCREAMING "Why don't you go (bleeping) talk to Person A again" like I'd done something wrong by having an innocent conversation with a friend or relative. To this day, I have no idea how I was supposed to respond to that. If anyone in my family wanted to visit us, she needed to know the exact timeframe that they'd be at our house, what we'd do, and what we'd talk about. It all had to be approved by her in advance, and they could only stay for 1-2 hours tops. Meanwhile, her friends and family could show up whenever they wanted, stay as long as they wanted, and do whatever they wanted, and I had no say. If I dared to mention the double standards, she'd call me the most controlling person ever. I can't make this up. It gradually just became exhausting and so stressful to maintain any relationships with anyone.

Whether it's intentional or not, I really think this is one of the key strategies people with BPD use to isolate, control and manipulate you.

[maxsterling]

I really appreciate the replies.

After the conversation with my dad, W was upset that I talked to him without her present, claiming that it was her business and our kids' business too.  She wanted to know the details of the conversation.  I said that she need to trust me to tell her anything that was important to her, and that my dad wanted to talk to just me, and that this is no different than if she had a conversation with her family member that I would not expect to be invited into the phone call, nor would I press her on what they talked about. 

Another of her complaints was that I talked to my dad instead of listening to her endless gripes, in that whatever her feeling at the moment was more important than me talking to my dad.  She does this with my work duties as well.  The other day she wanted me to come home early (without directly asking), and when I told her I would leave about 45 minutes early unless I got pulled into a last minute meeting, she blew up, and said that my family was more important than any work meeting.  It's not like I was being asked to stay late.

[ForeverDad]

Ditto with all the others, nearly all of us have experienced that.  The closer the relationship, the more evident the build up of the emotional baggage is, and your spouse can't or won't see past that.  First to be disparaged are your friends and your relatives.  Sometimes even a few of the spouse's own relatives and friends.  Eventually it will be you, perhaps even despite you appeasing your spouse and abdicating decisions.  It's all about the emotion-based perceptions, past triggering and need to control and dictate.

Have you tried day visits to your family with your kids?  Meeting at a restaurant, park or some other day activities?  The FACT is that it is older ones and immune compromised that are at higher risk, not children.

Oh, what triggered my separation back in 2005?  My then-spouse was already in an angry mood that day.  Then my preschooler wanted to go outside.  She ordered me not to take him to see his 80+ year old grandparents — next door — and she started threatening my life even before we got to go outside, upon which I called the emergency line, two police officers arrived and the rest is history.

[Notwendy]

Eventually it will be you, perhaps even despite you appeasing your spouse and abdicating decisions.  It's all about the emotion-based perceptions, past triggering and need to control and dictate.

These are very wise words.

Separation from family and friends isn't just common with BPD (it is common with a BPD relationship)- it's a hallmark aspect of abusive relationships. The motive isn't to hurt the person - and you may defend your wife on this too- and say she's not meaning to hurt them. You would be correct. The motive is insecurity, shame, and fear and the way they cope with this is to control their partner. Because any relationship outside this one is a threat to them, it needs to be avoided. The aspect of projection and denial will find some reason, any reason, than their own feelings.

Rather than dealing with these feeling as their own- they look to you to solve them. Don't see your family and they won't need to feel the fear of that relationship. When you appease them, you provide the solution for this fear, but you know by now that appeasement doesn't solve the marital issues. If it did, there'd probably be nobody posting here.

I observed this  with my parents and appeasing BPD mother, complying with her wishes, became a family goal. It didn't solve the marital issues. I am not saying you need to stay or leave, but if you continue to give up relationships that matter to you, that isn't going to be the solution to your marital issues either.

I began to look into this dynamic after I started to have boundaries with my BPD mother. I also made the mistake of getting angry at her and yelling at her out of frustration. I know now that not only is this not effective but I didn't know that at the time.   I didn't know then that it was possible for the child- parent bond to be broken, but there was no way of having a relationship with my father if I upset my mother. I knew my mother disliked my father's family and that my father didn't see his parents much after he got married. I learned then that all relationships were disposable if they didn't suit my mother.

If you could read the sad posts about this dynamic on the family board, you'd hopefully think twice about this. Sad parents losing contact with their grown child and grandchildren due to the feelings of a BPD spouse. Sad children unable to invite their father to their wedding because if they include their BPD mother, there will be drama. At some point -if a relationship with your parents matters to you, and your children seeing their grandparents does too, you will need to stand up for this.

[PeteWitsend]

...
For those of you that have experienced this, can you share what the situation was, how it progressed, and how it was justified in the BPDs mind?
...

Ditto.  We've almost all gone through this, and NotWendy's post explains the dynamic at work very well.

In my case, BPDxw mainly fought wiht my mom, but not exclusively.  She also had issues with my aunts, my step grandma, and my brother.  My parents are divorced, and BPDxw would drag my dad into her "hate fests" over my mom; he would indulge her. 

BPDxw could pick fights over my mom... things she said, things she did, etc. regardless of whether they happened recently or years ago, and even if my mom hadn't been over to see us in months.  And there were the same issues you're seeing... BPDxw was hurt I'd call my mom without her... she "felt excluded."  Then when I'd try to include her, she'd be upset and find other reasons not to call.  Or would say she had nothing to say to my mom when I tried to hand her the phone AFTER SHE ASKED TO BE INCLUDED IN THE CONVERSATION.  Then if my frustration with her behavior became apparent, I was "taking my mom's side over hers" and we were off to the races... screaming, door slamming, a week of silent treatment, etc.

Note that since I've been divorced, the attempts at alienating our daughter from my extended family haven't stopped.  BPDxw still bad mouths my mom to our daughter all the time, calls her a witch, told my daughter that my mom hated her (i.e. hated BPDxw), and who knows what else.  We had some issues with my daughter being rude to my mom (calling her by her first name in a sarcastic voice  as BPDxw would), but I can see my D loves her grandma, and it's heartbreaking to see that this sicko would intentionally destroy a relationship between her daughter and her grandma because of her own twisted abandonment and anxiety issues. 

[Cat Familiar]

The simple fact is that your parents and some people outside the relationship are easily able to see your wife’s dysfunction and that is very threatening to her.

My parents sized up my ex upon first meeting him and knew he was bad news. It took me a lot longer to get there.

[Notwendy]

That this sicko would intentionally destroy a relationship between her daughter and her grandma because of her own twisted abandonment and anxiety issues.


Yes, but she doesn't see it like this because she's not thinking " I am going to be hurtful to this person". In Karpman triangle dynamics, she is the victim. The victim of the person who she thinks made her feel bad and she's bringing people "to her side" to rescue her. In her mind, she doesn't think she's doing anything wrong. Then she seems puzzled at the divisions.

One was when we planned to visit my dad's family some time after he died. She overtly didn't like them so I assumed they'd have nothing to do with each other. When she found out, she was upset- understandably that it was visiting them and not her, but then she also said she was angry that they didn't invite her ? But she dislikes them. How is it that she'd want to be invited?

When I look back at events that I thought happened due to some unforeseen circumstance, I recall that at my wedding, there were about 100 of her friends and family and one person from my father's family and that seems odd. Did she not invite them? Or did they not want to come?

Yes this can break up families, unless you decide to not let it.

[maxsterling]

Thank you all.  The responses have been incredibly helpful to me - and given me strength.

I decided last night (for myself) that I want to see my parents.  We had tentative plans made for this weekend, and my parents had cleared their schedules.  W decided she didn't feel "Safe".  I'm sorry, but I am tired of managing her feelings ahead of mine.  I want to see my parents.  If I have to go alone, I go alone.

So I told her that this morning ad directly as I could.  I reiterated this had nothing to do with her feelings, but about *my* feelings of wanting to see my parents.  She tried to say that she felt abandoned by me because the twins' birthday is on Monday and she wanted to do something tis weekend with me as a family for their birthday.  I told her that my plans with my parents do not get in the way of that - we are talking 2-3 hours of my time.  I told her that it was perfectly reasonable in a married relationship for one partner to spend a few hours on his/her own maintaining family relationships.  I told her that I had no expectations of her or the kids to go, and that any perception my parents have regarding this is between her and them and not my responsibility. 

I was calm, firm, and direct.  W accused me of "ignoring her feelings".  I reiterated that she is free to feel however she wants, but that I am going to see my parents and there is nothing wrong with that, and her feelings are not my responsibility.

Of course she was irate, said a bunch of hurtful stuff.  But I really didn't care.  I felt good that I made a plan for myself and didn't cave to protect her.

Whatever becomes of this - I don't know.  She may decide that she and the kids want to come along too.   She may decide to stay away and move out.  That's her decision.  My decision is to rebuild a relationship with my family because that is a need I have been ignoring far too long.

[zaqsert]

maxsterling, good for you holding your boundary and going to see your parents, as you want to.

W may be going through an extinction burst. They're uncomfortable, but she'll come out the other end of it one way or another.

You know your parents best, so of course what you do is your choice. In my case, my uBPDw and I went through a rocky period a number of years ago. That's when I found my way here to BPDFamily and started my crash course in pwBPD. Later that year, my mom came to visit, and I opened up to her about what was going on.

She happens to be a psychologist, and she was not at all surprised. I asked her why she hadn't said anything. She said she thought I wasn't ready for it. It was a fair point since not that long prior, I had been defending my W's actions.

Ever since then, my parents have been strong parts of my small support network. When things with my W were better for a number of years, they were there. When things started to get bad again more recently, they were there. And now that I've started to figure out how to get out of this, they're still there.

[maxsterling]

Also worth mentioning is that my SIL is also diagnosed BPD, and right now she has my parents "painted black", and has been keeping my brother and his kids away from them as well.  It was very eye opening to hear my father describe that dynamic and put myself in that same place.

W mentions over and over that she isn't "trying to keep me from my family".  Consciously, she is not.  But the facts say she is through her actions.  In fact today she said that over and over.  I would say that I am going to see them anyway this weekend for a few hours, and she would give me reasons/guilt trips/ultimatums as to why I shouldn't.  There was no logical scenario in her mind where I could go see them and it not be an issue for her.  Instead she wanted me to satisfy her "feelings" - an impossible task.  She told me that me going would "increase tensions and make her feel worse."  I told her that not going would "increase tensions and make me feel worse".  And then she would say again that she is not trying to keep me from my family, and to imply that she is would make her want to kill herself.

Yes, I am extremely exhausted.  I just need to keep telling myself that I didn't cause it, and cannot fix it.  Her feelings are her feelings and they are not my facts.

[ForeverDad]

W may be going through an extinction burst. They're uncomfortable, but she'll come out the other end of it one way or another.

Don't get caught off guard and unprepared if/when some sort of emergency or other surprise sabotage occurs just as you're ready to depart to your parents.

Though not the time to bring the topic up now, perhaps a future visit will include the kids.  After all, what can go wrong with a day visit?  Well, unless they get stuck in a blizzard...

What are the ages of your kids?  Seems to me that wife is placing too much emotional emphasis and obligation on their birthdays.

[maxsterling]

Don't get caught off guard and unprepared if/when some sort of emergency or other surprise sabotage occurs just as you're ready to depart to your parents.

Though not the time to bring the topic up now, perhaps a future visit will include the kids.  After all, what can go wrong with a day visit?  Well, unless they get stuck in a blizzard...

What are the ages of your kids?  Seems to me that wife is placing too much emotional emphasis and obligation on their birthdays.

Already starting.  Now kids need a digestive cleanse and W wants to do it this weekend.  They are 5.  Yes they are excited about their birthday, but that is on monday.  3 hours on saturday or sunday does not affect that.

[ForeverDad]

Already starting.  Now kids need a digestive cleanse and W wants to do it this weekend.  They are 5.  Yes they are excited about their birthday, but that is on Monday.  3 hours on Saturday or Sunday does not affect that.

And your spouse can't handle their "digestive cleanse" while you're gone for a few hours?  You can always offer to take them with you...

Me?  I wouldn't limit myself to such a brief visit, but this is a first so okay to cut a visit a little short.  Not next time.

[orders4946]

I can't offer an explanation for the behavior or a solution, but I can offer my empathy and understanding to let you know you're not alone.  It is a very sad and frustrating situation that often worsens over time.

I am facing a similar issue and it will likely be the final nail in the coffin of my marriage.  I am making plans to leave.  If your experience is like mine then it will escalate and worsen over time despite any concessions you make now.

In my situation it started as indirect control and subtle manipulation (from making comments about me not spending enough time with my wife and comments about me being "too close" to my mother) to outright grandparental alienation (now telling my eldest son that nanny is "not very nice" and is "horrible to mummy" when the opposite is true). 

[Notwendy]

I am afraid to ask what your wife means by digestive cleanse for two 5 year olds.

I hope the advice to do that is from a medical provider. Kids can get constipated but a digestive cleanse is not the norm for a child. If it's your wife trying to control when they poop, then that's from her own issues.

I understand the struggle, but your wife's need to control will dominate if you let it. There was a constant " did you ask mother" for just about every request and my father rarely said "no" to us like that. It was "mother doesn't allow it". But what about him? He was the sole provider, but "mother won't let him" give us anything or buy us anything we asked for as kids. We rarely asked for much because as teens we were aware of financial difficulties. He, himself, could have said no, but it was "did mother allow it".

So we assumed he was the victim of her unreasonable demands and as you can imagine, we began to resent her. If we behaved like she did, we'd be punished or grounded, and yet, we had to defer to her and behave?

From my own observations, I would reframe this as " I am allowing my BPD to separate me from my family" because in a way, you are deferring to her feelings to the detriment of your connections to your family. Yes, I know it's tough to have boundaries with your wife, it's very tough. The way we learned to avoid conflict was to just comply with my mother. That's also a choice but it's the choice you made- avoid your parents or deal with the difficult conflict.

It's interesting that your brother is in similar dynamics with his marriage. These kinds of dysfunctional patterns are intergenerational. Without blaming parents- because they also probably experienced the patterns in their families- the dynamics we grew up with have an influence on our future relationships. With both you and your brother in this situation, it does make me wonder about family patterns.

Still, if your parents are caring people and want to see you, and your children, this deserves consideration. Although I do understand how hard it is to deal with the conflict over this, there is a lot of sadness for the ones who have been discarded by someone you love because "pwBPD won't allow it" and also realizing that it's still a choice. 

[orders4946]

^^^ Notwendy - I have lurked on these forums for a while and have always been so impressed by your wisdom and advice.  You are a credit to this forum and its members are very lucky to have you.

[cleotokos]

Just like the frog in the water, that's an apt description.

Accusing my family of being "passive aggressive" towards him, a term he learned at a workplace where they tried to address his passive aggressiveness. He then started accusing everybody around him of being passive aggressive and taking digs at him. Ie. my dad asked him how work was going and he claimed that was a dig at his employment status, even though my dad had no idea he was not working because H had asked me not to tell anyone as he is ashamed. He must have a log somewhere of all the times he's been "insulted" by my family members (in reality, zero times) and during fights he'll bring it up and tell my how awful my family is. So, am I going to bring them around so he can gain more ammunition? No.

I did not realize this was him isolating me from them until someone here pointed it out to me a few years ago. I guess I always thought it would be a more blatant request or demand. He just makes me anxious when they're around. I do go see them at their homes or other places but haven't had them to my home for years. It does make me sad.

[GaGrl]

Like NotWendy, I am concerned about a "digestive cleanse" for five-year-olds. Can you contact their pediatrician and find out if they recommended it? Constipation happens, but there are natural solutions that don't involve a "cleanse," which can result in decreasing the natural and "good" bacteria that helps with healthy digestion.

Definitely could be your wife's need for control kicking in, in a way that affects the childrens' health.

Your awareness of the difference between her words and her actions is very good -- maintain this focus.

[Cat Familiar]

Add me to the list of people who are concerned about this “digestive cleanse”. Both of them? How about giving them more fruit, fiber, and fluids? Not only does this idea sound harmful, it sounds like your wife is beginning to engage in Münchausen syndrome to manipulate you. 

https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/munchausen-by-proxy

[Notwendy]

orders4946- thank you so much- I am glad to be of help.

There is one condition that can occur in 5 year olds, called "encopresis". In this case, one has to remove the backed up stool. But this is a one or two times thing to do to clear the bowel. It's not a regular thing to do. After that, the "treatment" is a healthy diet, with enough fiber and water, and regular bowel habits. They may need to take something to soften the stools until they get more regular but this too is under medical supervision.

https://www.stanfordchildrens.org/en/topic/default?id=encopresis-90-P01992


But here are the warnings:

Never give your child an enema without the approval of your child’s healthcare provider.

Among the causes:

Emotional stress
Feeling stressed with family, with friends, or at school


Very young children have little control over their lives and if stressed - may sometimes control what they can control and that is when they poop. If stressed, they will hold their poop until it gets backed up. Then they can have accidents if there's leakage around the blockage.

Now, if they have a punitive parent, who gets angry at them for having accidents, it make it worse- because they can't control this.

If this "digestive cleanse" is under medical supervision, I would also be concerned if your wife was overly concerned about controlling their bowel movements and presented this in a way that would make their provider concerned about this.

If your wife is subjecting them to this without medical supervision, this is a cause for concern. This is what Cat is referring to- presenting a healthy child as sick.  And even if they do have encopresis, I would be concerned about stress in your home.

[maxsterling]

Sorry I didn't elaborate - was responding quickly.

Yes the cleanse is from the GI specialist.  They have very serious constipation issues that need to be completely resolved.  This is a one time thing (hopefully). 

It's not W trying to control their bowel movements.

She is opening up to the idea of meeting with my parents.  I kinda expected this. 

[zaqsert]

Yes the cleanse is from the GI specialist.  They have very serious constipation issues that need to be completely resolved.  This is a one time thing (hopefully). 

It's not W trying to control their bowel movements.

She is opening up to the idea of meeting with my parents.  I kinda expected this. 

Glad the cleanse is from the GI specialist. Hope they get through it well and soon. Good advice above on possible causes of the constipation too.

Don't be surprised (or be prepared) if W decides she wants to come with you to meet your parents. Then you may feel pressure from her to leave early. Or she may feel triggered by something that happens or is said.

It may not make any logical sense to you or anyone else. It may just be a pwBPD's reactions.

Just a friendly reminder. Aside from that, well done upholding your own boundary and investing in the relationships that matter to you. Your parents in this case.

[ForeverDad]

Another thought... why this weekend?  Why not last weekend or the next weekend?  Is it that urgent for this weekend?  If the specialist thought it was that urgent (probably the mother's interpretation?) then why didn't he say to do it now?

[Bch42]

It’s amazing how similar these stories are to mine.
BPDw worships her parents. Cannot tolerate my mother. Or any of my brothers. And of course cannot tolerate any of my friends. Attempts to alienate me from everyone.

Once there was a family event (my family)in another state. She said she could not go due to work. I said “well you don’t mind if I go and take my x (my daughter)? Yes.” If I can’t go, you shouldn’t be able to go”

Of course I tried logic. Before I understood BPD. Stating, “Gee if you had an opportunity to go somewhere and experience something and I couldn’t go, I would want you to do that. I would never want to hold you back.“.

So we went. And of course there was a price to pay. And then there was a denial that that discussion never happened. “I never said you couldn’t go to, just said I was unable to go”.

I used to think she was lying because she would completely misstate what happened. Then I realized that when they are in this phase, they truly don’t remember. And so it’s given me more compassion. But after 15 years of this, I am moving on.

 I recently took a BPD weekend course. It was about how to speak to the BPD using dialectical behavioral therapy. DBT.
I quit halfway through. Because you become A caretaker, not a spouse. You have to measure carefully everything you say. You are taught to validate, but not agree with people. So they can say the most horrible hateful things to you, and your response is supposed to be “I see you’re very angry. That must be difficult for you”.

God bless anybody who is willing to so this. But you are truly sacrificing yourself. And I find it degrading.

[maxsterling]

Of course I tried logic. Before I understood BPD. Stating, “Gee if you had an opportunity to go somewhere and experience something and I couldn’t go, I would want you to do that. I would never want to hold you back.“.

Yeah I tried that.  Nearly impossible to point out a double standard to a pwBPD.  My wife acts like she is entitled to have a different standard, and gives reasons for it.  Or she will explain how it is a completely different situation.  Like the conversation I had with my dad, and how she claims a "loving husband" would have included her.  I pointed out how she had a conversation a few hours earlier with her aunt regarding kindergarten advice for the kids, and I was not asked to be included nor did I expect to be included.  "Completely different situation" she says...

So we went. And of course there was a price to pay. And then there was a denial that that discussion never happened. “I never said you couldn’t go to, just said I was unable to go”.

This turned into a many-hours argument.  I was very direct with W:  "I want to see my parents for a few hours this weekend.  If you don't want to go, I will go by myself.  I am not angry at you for not wanting to go - that is your choice."  This was followed by her saying that she is not stopping me from going (then why discuss further?), followed by a bunch of guilt trips about how I am taking their side over her, abandoning her and the kids, being selfish, etc.  Then another statement about how she is not trying to stop me from going. 

I recently took a BPD weekend course. It was about how to speak to the BPD using dialectical behavioral therapy. DBT.
I quit halfway through. Because you become A caretaker, not a spouse. You have to measure carefully everything you say. You are taught to validate, but not agree with people. So they can say the most horrible hateful things to you, and your response is supposed to be “I see you’re very angry. That must be difficult for you”.

This is the pace I am coming to.  I don't want to be a therapist.  Even Ts have issues dealing with my W - multiple have quit on her over the past 7 years.  She has cursed out and abused Ts.  The "stop making things worse" advice here is great, but I am starting to see that the things we are doing to "make things worse" are simply ordinary things that aren't issues at all for 99% of the people we will encounter in life - we aren't doing anything wrong in the first place.  And the things we can do to help can reduce conflict, but don't make the relationship any healthier. 

[ForeverDad]

Add me to the list of people who are concerned about this “digestive cleanse”. Both of them? How about giving them more fruit, fiber, and fluids? Not only does this idea sound harmful, it sounds like your wife is beginning to engage in Münchausen syndrome to manipulate you. 

https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/munchausen-by-proxy

Is it possible that your spouse has, to an extent, besieged the specialist with demands to DO SOMETHING and so the cleanse was his saying "okay, okay, let's try this..."

We're remote, we can't know all the background, whether this is a valid ongoing health concern for the boys, etc.

Edit:  This is not to indicate your spouse is outright Münchausen-ish but her intense need to manipulate, influence or control you and the situation could lead her to attempt to pick up such concerning behavior.

[zaqsert]

Is it possible that your spouse has, to an extent, besieged the specialist with demands to DO SOMETHING and so the cleanse was his saying "okay, okay, let's try this..."

Adding to the question... pwBPD can easily paint stories as "always" or "never" when in fact the reality is "sometimes". I've seen my uBPDw do this with her own doctors and at times with our daughter's doctors. When I'm aware of it as it affects our daughter, I step in and correct the statement (e.g., from "always" to once a week or once a month). But when I'm not present in the conversation, I can't be sure what was said.