marriage in serious trouble, should I talk to H about BPD?

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hello, this is my first post in a forum like this...I'm not sure where to start...I have been feeling very exhausted and alone and stuck...my husband and I have been together for 20 years. We have 2 kids aged 17 and 20. A few years ago I realised that all his symptoms fit BPD. He is generally pretty depressed and feels like life has dealt him a bad hand...for a long time I thought that if I loved him enough I could 'fix things'...he has dramatic unpredictable mood swings and I don't know day to day which version of him will wake up beside me...He is a very intelligent, kind and caring husband and father... and then he can suddenly become explosively angry and bitterly cruel, blaming his lot in life on everyone but himself and particularly on me. Our conflicts never get resolved and the more I try to figure things out with him, the more I feel he argues me into a corner. I often end up in despair, and confusion and wondering...is this all my fault?  I always thought he was depressed and had anxiety and encouraged him to go and see a psychologist which he did for a while, but he told me that the psychiatrist had told him he can't be helped. I haven't talked to him about BPD because I'm afraid he would explode at me. I read 'Stop Walking on Eggshells' and was very relieved to get some answers and finally understand what I am dealing with. Both the kids have recently left home and I thought things had improved and he seemed generally a lot more stable and we were getting on really well. I started to feel hopeful for us and that maybe we can re-kindle our marriage... then one night recently we went out for dinner and I said something in a joking way about the fact that I always cook dinner and that he might give it a go some time... he just snapped... it was dreadful... he turned into a completely different person and he spiralled and bristled and was suddenly so nasty! We were soon back at the place where everything is wrong with his life and it is all my fault.   He stayed angry with me for days and wouldn't speak to me. I feel like I am back to just trying my best to avoid provoking his anger. Walking on eggshells...
 I am at the point where I just don't know what to do. We own our house together and I am generally a happy and positive person. I live my life and enjoy my work and friends and home and garden. I support him as best as I can but our relationship is in serious trouble... I don't want to break up with him but I feel so alone and sad and helpless, sometimes I feel like I'm living with a scary stranger. Should I try talking to him about BPD? I'm afraid this could make everything worse...
Thanks for this forum

[Daisydee]

Hello, this is my first post in a forum like this...I'm not sure where to start...I have been feeling very exhausted and alone and stuck...my husband and I have been together for 20 years. We have 2 kids aged 17 and 20. A few years ago I realised that all his symptoms fit BPD. He is generally pretty depressed and feels like life has dealt him a bad hand...for a long time I thought that if I loved him enough I could 'fix things'...he has dramatic unpredictable mood swings and I don't know day to day which version of him will wake up beside me...He is a very intelligent, kind and caring husband and father... and then he can suddenly become explosively angry and bitterly cruel, blaming his lot in life on everyone but himself and particularly on me. Our conflicts never get resolved and the more I try to figure things out with him, the more I feel he argues me into a corner. I often end up in despair, and confusion and wondering...is this all my fault?  I always thought he was depressed and had anxiety and encouraged him to go and see a psychologist which he did for a while, but he told me that the psychiatrist had told him he can't be helped. I haven't talked to him about BPD because I'm afraid he would explode at me. I read 'Stop Walking on Eggshells' and was very relieved to get some answers and finally understand what I am dealing with. Both the kids have recently left home and I thought things had improved and he seemed generally a lot more stable and we were getting on really well. I started to feel hopeful for us and that maybe we can re-kindle our marriage... then one night recently we went out for dinner and I said something in a joking way about the fact that I always cook dinner and that he might give it a go some time... he just snapped... it was dreadful... he turned into a completely different person and he spiralled and bristled and was suddenly so nasty! We were soon back at the place where everything is wrong with his life and it is all my fault.   He stayed angry with me for days and wouldn't speak to me. I feel like I am back to just trying my best to avoid provoking his anger. Walking on eggshells...
 I am at the point where I just don't know what to do. We own our house together and I am generally a happy and positive person. I live my life and enjoy my work and friends and home and garden. I support him as best as I can but our relationship is in serious trouble... I don't want to break up with him but I feel so alone and sad and helpless, sometimes I feel like I'm living with a scary stranger. Should I try talking to him about BPD? I'm afraid this could make everything worse...
Thanks for this forum

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[thankful person]

Hi Daisy dee,
Welcome, you are in the right place. There are many more knowledgeable people than me on here. Everyone is so kind and supportive. My understanding is that it is not helpful to mention bpd. My wife actually had a bpd diagnosis before we met, but as she recovered from her eating disorder and self harm with the help of dbt, she considers herself cured. Yes she was so angry and controlling and had got worse over the years as I bent over backwards to please her. I recommend the book, “stop caretaking the borderline or narcissist”. I found this very helpful. It is empowering to learn that you do not need your husband to work on changing himself, in order to improve your marriage. I have managed to change things for the better here. There is less conflict and much less anger and shouting. I am doing things for myself and not being controlled. We are all calmer and happier. And my wife has no idea of this journey we are on.  There is so much useful advice and info on here. I have been fully on board for about six months and so glad to have joined here as we have two small children and I was terrified for their future and mental health and emotional well being. I wish you all the best.

[Cat Familiar]

In agreement with Broken person, we advise members not to disclose their suspicions that partners have BPD.

BPD is a shame-based disorder and those who suffer from it have tremendous self-loathing. Should they research it, what they will typically find in the literature and online will add to that shame.

Not all therapists are knowledgeable about DBT, one form of therapy that has proven helpful for BPD, so much of the outlook on the disorder is not positive, as he has already experienced.

[Daisydee]

Thankyou so much for your replies! I can't express what a relief it is to feel understood! I've been reading so much helpful information on these boards about how to be in a relationship with someone with BPD. I felt guilty about coming on here and getting help... which I now realise is crazy! I've realised that I desperately need help not to be wiped out by the abusive behaviour when it happens. Sometimes I cope with it well when I'm feeling strong and clear, other times I feel like a sand castle after a big wave has come in and destroyed it and I feel traumatised for days. Are there any therapists who specialise in BPD? I have found my psychologist doesn't really understand what I'm dealing with and has advised me to leave him. This is not helpful!
Thanks again... so much
Daisydee

[DogMom2019]

I recently was at the point of where you are, probably still feeling like this, just exhausted. And in my human-ness, I told my spouse that all of the therapist we had seen over the years and my personal therapists pointed to her having BPD. My spouse did not get upset, she acted as if we never spoke about, like it didn't exist... Probably because of the shame attached to her not being perfect  'so let's not acknowledge it,' crazy-making. I am sure my spouse will bring it back up at some point once it settles in but I agree with others... It's not worth telling them. If you do tell them, it's more for yourself than for them. Find you a community that will validate your experiences... This place sure is helping me!

[thankful person]

Daisy, I understand it does feel like a betrayal that we’re all here talking about our partners behind their back with total strangers. But it has saved my marriage and completely changed my life and that of my children for the better. It is definitely worth it.

[Chosen]

I've realised that I desperately need help not to be wiped out by the abusive behaviour when it happens. Sometimes I cope with it well when I'm feeling strong and clear, other times I feel like a sand castle after a big wave has come in and destroyed it and I feel traumatised for days.

Hi Daisydee,

Don't feel guilty about coming here- you want your marriage to be better, and with a pwBPD, it's not possible as a group effort unless they're diagnosed and willing to go to therapy for themselves.  I feel the same as you do as well, and after a "big wave", I actually feel a bit of PTSD.  I would literally tremble when he raises his voice or something, because I'm so scared of it happening again.  That's especially true when I'm already not very "stable", or probably at an emotional low myself.  It's normal. 

Sorry I can't really offer anything about therapy, as my pwBPD is not diagnosed and he will never, ever admit he has a problem (miracles can happen, but I'm not counting on that).  I do find that this site gives me back a bit of my sanity, especially when his view of me/ of the world is so twisted that I don't know what to believe in anymore.  So do keep posting and reading here- at the very, very least, you will know that you're not alone!  Take care.

[T0M]

This is very distressing for me to read: 'for a long time I thought that if I loved him enough I could 'fix things'.

I'm in the same position. I consider myself as a strong stable person. If complete happiness is at a ten, I consider myself a steady 8. And I thought that if I just could shed enough happiness on her, if some of my positiveness would rub off to her, I could fix her. I kept trying to rationalize her sorrows away. Having an evidence based explanation why things were good... That if I stayed long enough with her, she would stop worrying of me leaving. That if I moved in with her, she would stop thinking that I was not serious about our relationship. That if I bought her enough gifts she would realize I was serious. That if I fixed things around the house, she would be happy. That when I changed my Facebook profile to a picture of the both of us, she would believe that I was proud of her. That if I take her everywhere she would stop believing I was hiding our relationship.

But this never happens. She keeps doubting, she keeps being unhappy, she keeps accusing me of wanting to leaf her.
Next step would be marrying her I guess. But I think, and if I read the stories, that would also not fix things.

[Cat Familiar]

I thought if I loved my ex husband enough, I could make our marriage *normal*. I spent many years trying in vain to do this.

People are who they are and if who they are isn’t working out well for you, there’s little you can do to change them.

If, however, they are genuinely willing to take your feelings into consideration, apologize for unkind outbursts, be cooperative and helpful, take responsibility for themselves…then it’s worth trying hard on your part to make things better.

[Daisydee]

replying to tom,
Yes this sounds very familiar, I have done similar things attempting to make my hwBPD realise I am loyal and do love him...20 years later and with 2 grown children and he still suspects I will have an affair and doesn't feel secure. I have realised this insecurity has nothing to do with me.
replying to Cat Familiar
It is rare that my HwBPD ever apologises, or if he does he says 'I'm sorry but you cause me to be so angry because of your behaviour'
Recently I tried to discuss with him the fact that nothing ever gets resolved between us. He needed me to explain what I meant by 'resolved'. He is a very intelligent man and sometimes I feel completely bewildered by his lack of emotional intelligence. I feel like he can't say sorry because he would be admitting he's wrong and he's very afraid of making himself vulnerable in this way.

[T0M]

Daisy Dee, I had a friend who could never say sorry and could never ever admit he was wrong. Even if ten other people and the internet (I guess google search is a nightmare for these kind of people :-) ) were saying otherwise. He would still not admit he was wrong.

He is a guy who makes friends very easily, is very intelligent, but loses his friends every lets say 2 to 3 years. He just starts a new social network, and he also does not seem to mind that friends abandon him. I was friends with him for 7 years (that says something about me probably) so I got to witness a lot of this.

After I found out he was insulting his own son and his wife in front of others. It was over and out for me. Later I learned from other 'ex'friends of him, that he was also insulting me, and making up stories about me.

I don't think he was a BPD person, but I'm sure he was a NPD. Funny thing is, that he was saying this about his father, but could not see that he and his father were identical.

PS. Not saying your husband has NPD. But maybe worthwhile to read something about this?

[DogMom2019]

I'm in the same position. I consider myself as a strong stable person. If complete happiness is at a ten, I consider myself a steady 8. And I thought that if I just could shed enough happiness on her, if some of my positiveness would rub off to her, I could fix her. I kept trying to rationalize her sorrows away. Having an evidence based explanation why things were good... That if I stayed long enough with her, she would stop worrying of me leaving. That if I moved in with her, she would stop thinking that I was not serious about our relationship. That if I bought her enough gifts she would realize I was serious. That if I fixed things around the house, she would be happy. That when I changed my Facebook profile to a picture of the both of us, she would believe that I was proud of her. That if I take her everywhere she would stop believing I was hiding our relationship.

But this never happens. She keeps doubting, she keeps being unhappy, she keeps accusing me of wanting to leaf her.
Next step would be marrying her I guess. But I think, and if I read the stories, that would also not fix things.

This is me. I thought if "I could only..." whatever she needed. Until the day came where my spouse told me that my love was "too safe, too secure, and too stable." I had never heard of anything like that in my life... Marriage will not fix the hole inside of your SO. Even to this day, I am still trying to figure out, what will it take for my spouses soul to be settled with me. There's an excellent post that someone sent me I'll leave it here...

The BLACK HOLE Analogy

This is one of my favorites, and I have reminded myself of it over and over.  Simply a reminder to prioritize your own needs and not throw 'everything' down a black hole that cannot be filled:

Imagine walking into your backyard one day and discovering a deep hole in the ground--so deep you can't see the bottom.  The hole looks dark and menacing.  You really, really don't like this hole in your yard.  You decide the answer is to fill it up.

So, you go into your garage and see an old bike.  You think, I used to like this old bike, but I don't mind losing it if it takes care of that hole.  So you throw your bike into the hole, where it vanishes without a trace.  But the hole is still there.  So, you go get all of your old favorite books from the house, and toss them in too.  They disappear, but the hole remains.  Soon, your DVD collection, computer games, musical instruments, and all the "frivolous" things in your house go down that hole, but nothing helps, the hole is as deep as ever.  Increasingly distressed, you can start to toss more important things down the hole too.  Work tools, money, foods, and, eventually, friends and family members, all vanish down that hole.

Eventually, all you have is an empty, lonely house with a big hole still in the back yard.

The day you decide to stop trying to fill that hole with important things from your life is the day you have decided to start taking care of yourself.

My point is that giving up your hobbies, passions, work and relationships will not "change" your partner or fill the emotional hole in them. You really, really can't "make" them be happy or whole or anything else.

[thankful person]

Dog mom, thank you for sharing the black hole analogy. This is exactly the position I was in, a few months ago sharing on here what I had given up for my wife, (everything positive in my life) and still she wasn’t happy. Since I have started standing up for myself and doing things for myself, I feel happier and calmer. And surprisingly my wife also seems more at peace, and secure, with the “boundaries” put in place, much like a child. I had no boundaries as a child. I felt my parents didn’t care about me much because of this, and this is probably why I’ve always gone for controlling partners.